I've been lurking for a few years in /lgbt/, and I can conclued that Freud was right about everything.
"Society is phallocentrist": every proud penis owner is considered superior
every no penis owner/non proud penis owner is considered inferior, because they represent castration of the phallus
Gays and lesbians failed there Oedipe complex. And there is several types of gays:
>inverted oedipe gays (the feminines ones, also tend to overrate masculine attribute)
>sex difference denial gays (love twinks or chubby guys, that are basically women with dicks)
>anal gays (characterized by hatred of women)
And there is several types of lesbians:
>inverted oedipe lesbians (butch ones)
>sex difference denial lesbians (trigendersnowflakedemiboy, generally hanging out on tumblr)
>anal lesbians (characterized by hatred of men)
Someone fucking finds a counterargument to this.
>Bisexuals. Oh wait, they don't exist right?
Bisexual are masrer race god tier, they succedeed their Oedipe complex without repressing any part of their sexuality
Asexual have found no compromise in expressing their sexuality so they use Sublimation (theyr transform pulsions into valorized activity like sports art or wtv the fuck)
FtM had an autistic reaction in front of penis envy and denied this cleaved that reality that they had no dick, so the "I want to have a dick" became "I used to have a dick but it disappear, gimme back!"
Just want to say that I'm pro-lgbt btw
Your transference onto your patients only reveals your own bisexuality Freud.
You are right in that sexuality is a powerful force in younger children, but as we grow older other forces also takes hold. It is not the oedipal myth that has failed to play out but the path of individuation that has not been completed.
As western society has sold its soul for knowledge there are few left to guide us through our collective myths.
There also exists autoandrophilic gays. Those that are so turned on by men that they even desire to take the form of the men they're attracted to. These men are even able to look at their own reflection and masturbate.
How does one fail or succeed at his/her own Oedipus complex?
Also i always wondered: what if a child, for soem fucked up reason, actually had sex with the wanted parent?
Would it "solve" the complex or is it actually the only way to fail it?
>Explain why I'm obsessed with big cocks, sucking cocks and getting fucked in the ass by /fit/ strong men(superior men)
Because when you realised your beloved mother had no phallus, you freaked out for your own, so you turned to your father and survalorized his phallic characteristic, in prior to not lose your libido
> explain why I have been repressing it for so long?
Because fags gets not love in society
>assuming I don't
at least make up a counter argument
Yeah you're right
These are gays with a narcicistic fail
There homosexuality are formed in a younger age, there is the equivalent in females
>Asexual have found no compromise in expressing their sexuality so they use Sublimation (theyr transform pulsions into valorized activity like sports art or wtv the fuck)
Is there a biology-based explanation for why whatever they sublimate their sexual desire into doesn't cause sexual arousal?
>How does one fail or succeed at his/her own Oedipus complex?
According to Freud, "succeed" your Oedipe Complex meant for boys
>I don't fear my father anymore, identify with himand accept that I can't keep incestuous feelings for my mother, so I displace them on women my generation
and for women it's the opposite, identify with mother and give up on the ambivalence she has with her for not "making her a boy" etc..
>Also i always wondered: what if a child, for soem fucked up reason, actually had sex with the wanted parent?
Then he will have a misconception of love, will not think of live as give and receive but as only give, being slave to your partner desire
(I take it as "the parent raped the children" because I can hardly imagine a children raping his parents)
>Would it "solve" the complex or is it actually the only way to fail it?
It's failed, it's not the only way to fail it
The people that succeeded their Oedipe complex myst be a very small percentage of the population
>Is there a biology-based explanation for why whatever they sublimate their sexual desire into doesn't cause sexual arousal?
I heard that some did have sexual arousal
Maybe the one that fucked up there Oedipe are blended with the one that have organic issues(if it's a thing) , even though we can both agree on the fact that the gene with asexuality would have disappeared long ago if it ever existed
Penises are considered more appealing than vaginas, therefore misogyny.
Penises are considered gross and less aesthetically pleasing than vanginas, therefore society caters to heteromale sexuality, therefore misogyny.
>Your transference onto your patients only reveals your own bisexuality Freud.
And that's why I'm also working on the counter transference
>You are right in that sexuality is a powerful force in younger children, but as we grow older other forces also takes hold. It is not the oedipal myth that has failed to play out but the path of individuation that has not been completed.
Homosexuality is a valid orientation as Heterosexuality is.
it seems like individuation means normification to you, while I praise diversity
>As western society has sold its soul for knowledge there are few left to guide us through our collective myths.
This research for knowledge is just another fantasmatic accomplishment, I hope people will realise what they are really looking for
>What specific consequence with regards to gender and sexuality would failing your Oedipus complex have?
-You identify with the parent of the opposite sex
And so envy people of the opposite sex
-You regress to the first phases of psychosexual development (oral and anal phase, the third being the Oedipe complex)
It will means that you use mouth and anus for sexual gratification instead of fantaisizing about a heterosexual coit (this doesn't apply to sex difference denial gays)
Also you can fail it but still be straight
-Females will only be motivated by jealousy or hatred, sublimation will be shit/non existant
-Males will have a castration complex too strong, they'll do a lot of stupid shit, like bullying other weaker males etc..
Freud was a crazy cokehead but he was right about a few things! Especially penis envy/castration anxiety were super on point and those ideas emerge spontaneously in lots of different understandings of power in gender.
Interesting. I'm pretty sure I failed my Oedipus complex insofar as I'm much closer to my mother than my father, and I do tend to identify much more with women than men, however the "regression" doesn't seem to have occurred for me, I'm pretty much exclusively attracted to women (though cis or trans doesn't matter since my attraction is on the basis of stuff like facial features and clothing, genitalia is irrelevant) and my own sexual arousal seems to involve my genitalia rather than my mouth or anus. And I definitely don't have any tendency to bully weaker males and so on.
So do many other stimulant addicts. Whether or not someone is successful in life as a drug addict doesn't really change anything.
And yes, Freud was bonkers and put out a ton of nonsensical work.
If you're aroused by thinking of them
the logic equation would be that you want to sex them
You never ever had fantaisy of intercourse with them, even during teenagehood?
>real life interests
You have other kinds of interest?
>You never ever had fantaisy of intercourse with them, even during teenagehood?
Nope, it's really always just been imagining what they look like.
>You have other kinds of interest?
What do you mean by that?
How would one explain Autogynephilia? It's known as "the love of oneself as a woman" but I believe that AGP is actually rooted in emasculation anxiety. Instead of "becoming what you love", you're instead "becoming ehat you fear" and desensitizing yourself to emasculation trauma. Seems to me that an AGP person is thrned on by associating themselves with cues of hyper-feminity, such as ballet class, tutus, frilly dresses, sexual acts, etc. This isn't of course my theory, but a theiry of a popular redditor and boy does it make sense.
>Instead of "becoming what you love", you're instead "becoming what you fear"
You just descrbied the defense mecanism of Formation reaction, it's when an unacceptable pulsion is too strong, it turns into its opposite
You might be right, maybe males with too big castration anxiety will use this defense mecanism and start identifying with their mother (representing hyper femininity)
What's arousing to you when you imagine them?
The fact that they have clothes, that they are females?
As you said you identified more with women, do you think it interferes with your attraction?
>What's arousing to you when you imagine them?
>The fact that they have clothes, that they are females?
Kind of both I guess, it's just overall being attracted to their body shape, clothing, face and hair etc.
>As you said you identified more with women, do you think it interferes with your attraction?
Yeah that's entirely possible, could be some variation of AGP.
As we can see now, AGP is A LOT more common than we think it is and if this is true, the population of transexuals should only raise as people become more aware and accepting. At that point, I believe that doctors and psychologists will see AGP for what it really is and will discover a less stigmatizing term for it. AGP is the sexuality of the trans-lesbian.
Freud thought that love and sex derived from the same thing
Having pulsions directed toward something logically meant that you intended to satisfy yourself with that object
If you imagined you had sex with them how would you feel? Would you not care, or be distrubed?
>Yeah that's entirely possible, could be some variation of AGP.
AGP is a very 'borderline' way to identify to your mother, there is a lot of other way to introject(make a part of yourself) identification with your mother
I also noticed homosexual MtF were a rather big part of T in lgbt, it's true that maybe a lot of AGP are blended with real transbians
Let's hope the situation evolves
>Having pulsions directed toward something logically meant that you intended to satisfy yourself with that object
Yeah, it's weird, like I can be aroused and masturbate to thinking about this person, but there really isn't any specific sexual act it drives me to do with another person.
>If you imagined you had sex with them how would you feel? Would you not care, or be distrubed?
I really can't say since I haven't had sex, and imagining is difficult since I have to consciously think about having sex rather than the target of my arousal itself.
You conclude Freud was right about anything (while the entire world of relevant academia disagrees)... Based on what? Because you like it? Have you any actual reasoning or are you just a child attempting to create a feeling of intelligence for themselves by having an unusual/disruptive view?
>I have to consciously think about having sex rather than the target of my arousal itself.
You told me earlier that you had genital pulsions
So I deduce that you dissociate your masturbation from your attraction
I kind of sounds like a bit of AGP right now
Or primary identification to your mother, some deep thing
>while the entire world of relevant academia disagrees
And I guess you represent it?
>Based on what? Because you like it?
Based on my own experience of years of analyzing(of myself and other), experiences, and studying it
>are you just a child attempting to create a feeling of intelligence for themselves by having an unusual/disruptive view?
I'm not, are you?
I'm aware psychonalysis and Freud sound like the same people that believed in conversion therapy.
I don't like psychoanalytic views on how we are as homosexuals (we are regressing/failed development) though I have to admit these are facts, yet unproven to me, whether I like it or not
And where the counter argument at btw
>You told me earlier that you had genital pulsions
>So I deduce that you dissociate your masturbation from your attraction
Not really, the attraction and masturbation are obviously related, but masturbation is the only form of sex act it makes me desire. I don't experience any desire to do anything sexual with another person.
At the beginning of the Oedipe complex, every children think their mother has a phallus (a penis) but they will later realise (or not) that it's not the case
Sex difference denial is when the children refuses to admit that her mother has no phallus
Boys reaction is that he realises that if his mother (and apparently every women) have no penis, it means that he can lose his penis too, so he starts freaking out and using defense mechanism to "give" a phallus to the mother symbolically, using fetishes etc..
>I don't experience any desire to do anything sexual with another person.
Then this definitely sounds like a fixation to primary narcissism, which is waaay before the Oedipe complex.
>defense mechanism to "give" a phallus to the mother symbolically, using fetishes etc..
for example? I'm a gay guy into fat men, how did that whole sex difference denial thing work out for me, apparently?
Well apparently, it's as I said in >>5527976
When you discovered your "beloved" mother had no phallus, you realised yours could be castrated (that's what you thought fantasmatically) and also, probably had a reaction of disgust, so you're attracted to men that remind you of your mother
The belly of fat men would remind you of a pregnant woman, and I don't know if you've ever been into twinks, but I notcied some fat-loving gays had a period where they were
never been into twinks in the slightest. i don't know many chubby chasers that are into them, either. my father was actually the one with the round belly. I usually chalk up my attraction to such men as them reminding me of him. why would a gay man be attracted to someone like his mother?
>They instead look to be making people feel good about themselves.
Sounds like irony, and I don't see where you're going
But anyway it was Freud's main goal to make his patient feel better, he thought that his patients were "cured" when they could live a normal happy life
>my father was actually the one with the round belly. I usually chalk up my attraction to such men as them reminding me of him
Do non-fat men attract you too?
>why would a gay man be attracted to someone like his mother?
First of all, know that it doesn't make him any less gay
And you know there is also straight people that are looking for their same sex parents in a partner, it's a thing.
The unconscious goes in any kind of direction
>Do non-fat men attract you too?
not nearly as much as fat ones. at most, i can find a thin guy's face attractive, his body just seems bland.
going back to your other post, though, how do you go from
>When you discovered your "beloved" mother had no phallus, you realised yours could be castrated
>so you're attracted to men that remind you of your mother
why would that even cause me to be attracted to men that remind me of her? I don't get it.
>not nearly as much as fat ones. at most, i can find a thin guy's face attractive, his body just seems bland.
Then it is more like a fetish (I don't like to use that word here but it's the thing that's the most close to it) than a preference
>how do you go from [...] to [...]
You simply switched parents
You could compare it to the female's Oedipe, when she realises her mother has no phallus nor does she, she switches to her father, start being attracted to him because he owns the phallus she needs/the mother didn't have/gave her
Same happened for you (according to the theory), though boys 'are not supposed' to change from their mother to their father
>why would that even cause me to be attracted to men that remind me of her?
Because you didn't want to lose her as an object, (someone/thing you discharge your pulsions on) So to avoid losing the object of your mother, you make it leave through men
>You simply switched parents
switch what about them?
>Because you didn't want to lose her as an object, (someone/thing you discharge your pulsions on) So to avoid losing the object of your mother, you make it leave through men
layman's terms please
How come you aren't sharing any of your reasoning then? You just came in and say "Hey guys I think Freud's right. That is all" As if you expect that to be challenging or compelling. I called you a child because in the absence of any actual argument to put forth this could have only been a badly conceived exercise in vanity or attention-seeking.
>And where the counter argument at btw
Counter arguments happen when there is an argument. You never made an argument. You shared a view. That view was "I think Freud's right". What do you want people to do, refute everything Freud said on sexuality? Why should we put forth an effort that has already been done for someone like you? It would be hard for a worse way to waste one's time
>I called you a child because in the absence of any actual argument to put forth this could have only been a badly conceived exercise in vanity or attention-seeking.
I kind of tried to get people's attention by being provocative so they would post things
Turned out well I trhink, I learned a lot of things
>Why should we put forth an effort that has already been done for someone like you?
I want to hear people's advice on Freud's view, about their experience as /lgbt/ people, is it conform t what he said, etc,
I' don't want to waste anyone time, just learn more
>switch what about them?
You displaced your pulsion on another parent
>layman's terms please
Because you used to direct your pulsions toward your mother, but then you learned about sexual difference (she/women have no penis, boys do) and so you felt threatened ( by castration, for reasons I said above) and disgusted, yet you had this pulsion directed toward her, that can not remain directed toward her as there is this fear and disgust, so it has to change its direction, you directed it on your father(men), because they have the phallus your mother didn't have. Yet you couldn't ignore that this pulsion was first directed at your mother, and abandoning her this way is hurtful (abandoning an object is something close to impossible for a child) so you made her "live" through he men you're choosing
>pulsions etc etc
this stuff does sound interesting, but I just don't buy it. if there is a psychological element into one being homosexual, I'd be willing to wager it has more to deal with the individual in question's life and personal development, rather than a catch-all subconcious system. I don't really have an opinion on how much validity there is to all of this stuff about the subconcious, but i feel like it's easy to explain away something by saying it's part of the subconcious and string together a theory with buzzwords and striking symbolism.
do you study psychology? if so, any degrees? I'm not saying this mockingly, but why do you support the ideas of someone that most in the field believe to be obsolete/discredited?
If you were trying to create a point of discussion that's fine, you just did it in a strange way. When I see someone say something like "Freud was right about penis envy" I really want to see follow up, you know?
>this stuff does sound interesting, but I just don't buy it
Yeah I understand, it's kind of hard to believe when you just read it this way, you probably don't really identify to what I'm saying, I understand
>i feel like it's easy to explain away something by saying it's part of the subconcious and string together a theory with buzzwords and striking symbolism.
Yeah there is a whole vocabulary in psychoanalysis, in german it's even worse, it's not even words with different signification it's completely made up words by Freud, true that they sound like "buzzword" but really, these are things everyone can relate to (when they understand what it points at)
>do you study psychology? if so, any degrees?
I don't, I study philosophy
>why do you support the ideas of someone that most in the field believe to be obsolete/discredited?
I don't know, I didn't really think about how it is discredited, I studied it and found it to be true everywhere I looked so far
Plus it's mainly in american fields that it is discredited, where there is no more time to 'introspect' because quick = efficient, and science can't be denied we can't disagree on science right
There's been plenty of studies that compare various psychological techniques to a control group. The one's in practice always out perform the control group by a significant amount.
It gets results, deal with it.
I'm talking about people mentality in general, what's valorized, what's not, why some people do these things a not these, why is their such reaction in front of such things etc..
>don't you think this might just be confirmation bias?
It could yeah, but I try a lot to be objective with myself, I know Freud's work were still hypothesis, I never clamed it as a science
And as I said earlier I don't like the way we are portrayed (as gays, men, women) it doesn't please me at all, yet it makes sense and I like the fact that it makes sense
>I'm talking about people mentality in general, what's valorized, what's not, why some people do these things a not these, why is their such reaction in front of such things etc..
This is basically what I never stopped talking about during the whole thread,
in the op
>society is phallocentrist
>the ambivalent behavior between females
>the objectification of the female
>any deviant sexuality
And a lot of other things, Freud gave his own life to psychoanalysis
Freud gave his view on every of those things and explained it according to psychonalytic theories
He wrote books about all of these things, and more
I'm not trying to fool you, or anyone