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Lowering the age of concent
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You are currently reading a thread in /lgbt/ - Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender

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Other than how high and arbitrary the consent laws are, lowering the age of consent could make transitioning easier. Young dysphoric patients would not need their parent's consent to threat their dysphoria, therefore having an early start and a more successful transition.
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What is that picture? ?
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glad you think so. now go do something about it if you feel strongly instead of posting on 4chan
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>>5504234
how long until tranny and other degenerates start pushing for pedo rights? It's only the next step.
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>>5504246
AFAIK someone gather trannies and tried to find their cis counterparts

It's pretty depressing tbqh look at those shoulders.
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>>5504234
I honestly thought this was going to be a different kind of thread when I had just read the title.
>>5504255
Nevermind it's going to be exactly the kind of thread I thought it was going to be.
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>>5504234
You mean to be able to do "informed consent"?
Otherwise, the law has a say in this, and if a medical professional believes the parent isn't making a decision that is best for the child, they can find a 3rd party to consent to the treatment.

The problem is mostly that it needs to be easier for medical professionals to do that.
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>>5504234
Age of consent shouldn't apply to transition treatments in the first place if they're prescribed by a doctor. You don't refuse to treat a patient because they're too young to consent to it, and letting the parent override the decision of a professional doctor is just silly.
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>>5504316
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/im_a_pedophile_but_not_a_monster/

Shit like this is only the start. It's only a matter of time before this stuff gets widespread due to the degeneracy we allow.
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>puberty blockers are child abuse!
>meanwhile we have children doped up on stimulants, SSRIs and other mind altering drugs
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>>5504316
Ignore that anon, he's an idiot.

>>5504318
>You mean to be able to do "informed consent"?

No. To able to treat their condition without parental consent. No one should need parental consent to treat a serious and time sensitive medical condition such as gender dysphoria. It can be fatal if not treated early.

>>5504320
Well they do. People bellow the age of 18 can't go to the doctor's by themselves neither to psychologists, all of these are need to get hormones.
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>>5504316
Why does LGBT hate pedos? I thought the gay community would be more sympathetic to their plight but I made a thread about is a bit ago and it got deleted without anyone answering my questions.
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>>5504620
Why would you like pedos
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>>5504633
I don't have anything against pedophiles, and I care about them because pedophiles are unfairly oppressed by society. Pedophile persecution is even endorsed by most people.
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>>5504620
>Why does LGBT hate pedos?
For the same reason everyone else hated pedos.
That and an attempt to distance ourselves fro it, considering we're always lumped together.
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>>5504589
>Well they do. People bellow the age of 18 can't go to the doctor's by themselves neither to psychologists, all of these are need to get hormones.
And I'm saying rather than lower the age of consent, it makes more sense to have it be the doctor's decision regardless of what the parents want. Doctors are the ones with medical degrees, it should be up to them to decide what's best for the patient.
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>>5504620
I have nothing against pedophiles, but children cannot meaningfully consent to sex. It therefore doesn't make sense to let them legally have sex with kids.
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>>5504661

Mostly because people conflate 'pedophile' with 'active pedophile,' because the ones who restrain themselves from molesting children wisely try to keep a low profile about the whole thing.

Partly because pedophilia is not a legitimate sexual identity and has no hope of a sustainable relationship with another human being because they will inevitably lose interest as the target of their affections grows older.

A pedophile is defined by their single, overriding sexual interest in prepubescent children over all else, which is an aberration because prepubescent children have not developed the sexual characteristics that would spur normal sexual interest. This is why most people can be sexually attracted to teens yet still have functional relationships with other adults: teens have developed their sexual characteristics, albeit to varying degrees, and the attraction is based on the presence of said traits.

That said, I recognize that part of the psychological trauma inflicted on teens (particularly young teens) by sexual interaction with adults comes from a combination of ill-preparation and societal pressure: enough people telling you that you were abused will make you think you were abused, even if you were not, psychologically-speaking, abused. However, that is not the sole reason, and even if it was, acknowledging that would be reason enough not to have sex with teens because you're acknowledging that the interaction is going to fuck them up in the head, even if it's not a direct result.

Pedophiles deserve to live their lives. They don't deserve to fulfill their urges on children.
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>>5504234
>>5504292
god I can't even. I haven't wanted to kill myself this much for a long time, this picture is like actual torture
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>>5504708
But in this case it's not just the doctor's decision it's psychologist's decision, it's the parent's decision. They need a parent to go with them to go to the psychologist, they need a parent go to with them to the doctor's office, they need an adult ID for the pharmacist, and they need to be 18 for informed consent, why? Because 18 is the age of consent.
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I hope that in 30 or 40 years science will override peoples feelings and actually fucking attempt to get at a legit "cure" to homosexuality and autogynephilia. Words cannot describe how dysphoric my secual interests caused me to be at a young age, but I was too young to realize it. Nothing is worse than having the sexuality of someone that you're clearly not physically and that causes an inconvruence between gender/sex.
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>>5504988
They'll have to "cure" it before birth, otherwise there is no cure, this is just how your brain works.
Life isn't fair, but it should be fairer for people in dire circumstances.
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>>5504359
Shit might go down, but it'll probably fizzle out in the long run.
We're just in another time of social revolution. This has happened before. People were discussing polygamy and pedophile rights in the 60's and 70's too.

In fact something similar is happening within transgender rights atm, with all these crossdressing men now slapping the trans label on themselves so they can live their fetish 24/7.

In my opinion rational thought and common sense tend to win in the end. Trans people will be expected, but "pedosexuals" will not become a thing, nor will "demitrans demiboy" "non-transition woman"
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>>5504988
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>>5505010

I'm not sure homosexuality needs a cure, since the only fallout from it psychologically-speaking stems from cultural influence (and goodness knows culture can inflict any number of other mental problems on us, like bulimia). Since trannies need medicine and surgery, however, I'm hopeful for the development of a screening process to nix it in the womb, along with other disorders like autism and MS.
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>>5504589
>It can be fatal if not treated early.
lol what? show a source for this that wasn't suicide.

>>5505010
I don't think you know how the brain works.

lowering the age of consent would just let people fuck at a lower age, and possibly get kicked out of their house earlier, instead we should make it so a kid can talk to the school counselor to be able to get visits to a psychiatrist or have one visit the school to talk to the kid to see if they actually are exhibiting symptoms of body dysphoria.

Though it still raises the question of, who is going to pay for this? and if you say it should be government funded, fuck you I'm not okay with a raise in my taxes for something like this. nor do I think we should tax the rich more to pay for poor(er) people's treatments.
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>>5504255
>Medical consensus = pedo
And all the tinfoilers who say the doctors lie come out of the woodwork
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>>5505158
suicide = fatal. You've got kids breaking down killing themselves, is that fatal enough for you?

Even schizophrenia and depression is taken more seriously why not gender dysphoria? The majority of people still think: "It's just a phase" Conditions like this aren't just a phase, they are life threatening.

>>5505158
>fuck you I'm not okay with a raise in my taxes for something like this...

Oh so you're just a troll from /pol/ good to know.
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>>5505448
>suicide = fatal.
yes suicide is fatal, but that isn't related to the treatment itself, it's usually based on how people treat the person. and it's usually FROM DEPRESSION that they commit suicide. it might be related to receiving treatment late, but it isn't due to it.

>Oh so you're just a troll from /pol/ good to know.
So because I don't want my taxes raised for someone else's treatment I am not a troll from /pol/ ? way to try to shut down a conversation. go back to /b/ if you're going to try to be a faggot.
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>>5504234
>LGBT pushing for pedo rights
It was only a matter of time.
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>>5505554

LGBTP
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>>5505518
>it's usually based on how people treat the person

No it's not it is the gender dysphoria that makes people want to kill themselves. Same with schizophrenia and depression.

>>5505518
>So because I don't want my taxes raised for someone else's treatment I am not a troll from /pol/ ?

No it's:
>who is going to pay for this? and if you say it should be government funded, fuck you I'm not okay with a raise in my taxes for something like this.

This is common argument made on /pol/ to dismiss government funding for harm reduction, like it's some kind of joke. It's another way of saying: "Why should I care for degenerates or the weak, who cares? HAIL HITLER!"

>go back to /b/ if you're going to try to be a faggot.
You first /pol/ fag, /pol/ is turning to shit anyway might as well.
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>>5504620
Gay people have enough trouble being accepted as it is. We're in no position to go around helping out another oppressed sexual minority. All that will happen is the wrong people will point at it and go "see? Gays ARE fucking creeps after all."
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>>5505518
>telling someone they don't belong in /lgbt/ because they're "being a faggot"
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>>5504973
I'm saying regardless of whether they need the parent to actually bring them there, the decision should be the doctors. We shouldn't let just anyone veto medical treatments because of their feels.

>So because I don't want my taxes raised for someone else's treatment I am not a troll from /pol/ ? way to try to shut down a conversation. go back to /b/ if you're going to try to be a faggot.
Because that's how the government works, taxes fund public services. For pretty much everything the government provides, there's someone who doesn't directly benefit from that. Does that mean they should be exempt from taxes? Bringing this up in the specific context of trans people makes it look like you think gender dysphoria isn't a "real" condition and treating it is wasteful.
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>>5505658
Well even if it's the doctors decision, their parents can say: "No" Because they have the ultimate say not their underage children.

Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time with blood transfusions.

So what if the parents say: "No"? Should they be arrested for child endangerment?
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>>5505762
>Should they be arrested for child endangerment?
I think they should, yes. And if the child commits suicide as a result of not being allowed to transition, they should be held responsible. I mean, if a kid gets hit by a car and dies because the parents refuse to allow them to get medical treatment, the parents are responsible for the death, are they not? I think the same reasoning applies here.
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>>5505608
>You first /pol/ fag, /pol/ is turning to shit anyway might as well.
(This is why I like 4chan, everyone is called a fag and it isn't taken as an insult. it's just a title.)

>This is common argument made on /pol/ to dismiss government funding for harm reduction

To be fair I don't think we should have any government funding, it should all be optional. including funding that goes to schools, military and everything in between. have taxes the minimum we need them instead of charging people for things they don't want to pay for.

It usually makes it so more people actually go out and donate to the cause they want to support.

I don't think someone being trans is weaker or a degenerate just for being trans, though I do think I shouldn't be forced to pay for it.

>No it's not it is the gender dysphoria that makes people want to kill themselves.
The full comment on the suicide note was that it was from depression and how people treated them. the depression might be a symptom of the dysphoria, but it isn't the disphoria itself as far as I know. though I do admit we need more unbiased studies on the matter.
(call me paranoid if you will, but I feel a lot of scientific studies are heavily biased now-a-days.)

>>5505644
>LGBT+ community
>Gay people
LGBT is more than just gay people, Pedos should be included in it, or at least the ones who don't look at CP and child molestors.

>>5505650
so rare such pepe

>>5505658
>taxes fund public services.
It shouldn't be a public service funded by the government is the entire thing. It should be a charity thing and maybe be able to be a tax write off if a doctor does it for cheaper (maybe, still don't quite okay with that, but it's better than making it completely paid for)

>>5505762
>So what if the parents say: "No"? Should they be arrested for child endangerment?
No, but the child should be taken into protective services and put into a better home, unless it was a no because they couldn't pay for it.
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Shame of sexuality is a cis female social construct used to control the market value of sex, ie the value of women. There is no reason children should not be having sex other than the fact that it makes women worthless.
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>>5505843
>It shouldn't be a public service funded by the government is the entire thing. It should be a charity thing and maybe be able to be a tax write off if a doctor does it for cheaper (maybe, still don't quite okay with that, but it's better than making it completely paid for)
Why not? The cost is very low (fairly expensive to the individual actually, but trans people are rare, and only some of them actually go through with transition) so the cost to the taxpayer would be negligible. Yet it would improve the lives of the people receiving the treatment a great deal.
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>>5504255
/pol/ predicted this years back, it's no surprise to us to see a bunch of faggots pushing for pedo rights.
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>>5505862
Sex with children may not be INHERENTLY bad, but in almost all situations where it happens there's a severe power disparity. The child may have the mental capacity to consent or not consent, however they are in a circumstance where they can't really do anything to prevent an adult from having sex with them even if they said no.
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>>5505870
It's mostly /pol/ pretending to be faggots that's pushing for pedo rights. Personally I'm all for pedos not being discriminated against or hated, but pretty much every time the topic comes up online it ends with someone insisting they should have a right to rape kids.
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>>5505886
>It's mostly /pol/ pretending to be faggots that's pushing for pedo rights.

lol no
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>>5505891
Pedo acceptance hasn't been part of mainstream LGBT issues for decades. However you frequently see /pol/ false flagging on this board and claiming that it's unfair that you can marry a man but not a 6 year old.
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>>5505896
>However you frequently see /pol/ false flagging on this board and claiming that it's unfair that you can marry a man but not a 6 year old.

lol no
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>>5505866
1) if it they don't want to go through the transition they aren't trans they're just a cross dresser, which there's nothing wrong with that, just they aren't trans.
2) If it became free, more people would probably come out as trans and try to get treatment.
3) if it's cheap in comparison then there should be enough people willing to give to a charity of their own free will to pay for it. instead of basically putting a gun to people's heads or threatening them with rape if they don't pay for it.
(if you don't pay taxes, which is what you're saying we should use for paying for the transition you go to jail/prison and can either be shanked or raped. so it's basically a threat.)

I know it's extreme, but in the end that's basically what it comes down to. you want to force others to pay for it. Honestly if it because a charity, it'd be easy to get Caitlyn Jenner to pay to the charity because she's a famous trans person and it'd be a step forward for trans people. Not to mention if she didn't help poorer trans people she'd have bad publicity and it'd hurt her in the long run.
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>>5505935
"lol no" doesn't magically erase the obvious bait pedo threads we get every week

>>5506030
>(if you don't pay taxes, which is what you're saying we should use for paying for the transition you go to jail/prison and can either be shanked or raped. so it's basically a threat.)
Couldn't you make the same argument about anything that's funded with taxes? Like, instead of threatening people with rape if they don't pay for pointless foreign wars, why not just let "charity of their own free will" fund the military?
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>>5506072
>Couldn't you make the same argument about anything that's funded with taxes?
>Like, instead of threatening people with rape if they don't pay for pointless foreign wars,
>why not just let "charity of their own free will" fund the military?

>>5505843
>To be fair I don't think we should have any government funding, it should all be optional.

I kind of already said I feel that way. the only things I think that should be tax funded, is maybe road work. relief funds(like if there's a natural disaster a fund to help people affected get out and/or give kids a camp to be able to try to get over the traumatic experience of losing everything they own in a flood/tornado/flash fire.), and maybe political offices(mainly so we can keep track of how much they're making and force them to change taxes accordingly)

Then again I'm very anti-government. the less they can control the better.
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>>5506030
>1) if it they don't want to go through the transition they aren't trans they're just a cross dresser, which there's nothing wrong with that, just they aren't trans.

Not all trans women have SRS. Non operative trans women and some gender queer people still need HRT and psychological care to help combat dysphoria.

There is also the much cheaper option of simply ones testicles removed as opposed to full vaginoplasty, which can minimize the need for long term HRT.

>If it became free, more people would probably come out as trans and try to get treatment.

I don’t understand you implication here. Is it: more people being able to come out as trans = negative?


> instead of basically putting a gun to people's heads or threatening them with rape if they don't pay for it.

ROTFL. I think I know what one of you favorite Youtube Channels / Personality Cults is.
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>>5506764
>Not all trans women have SRS. Non operative trans women and some gender queer people still need HRT and psychological care to help combat dysphoria.
>There is also the much cheaper option of simply ones testicles removed as opposed to full vaginoplasty, which can minimize the need for long term HRT.
Which goes with my argument of if it because free they would get the full surgery and therapy done.
>I don’t understand you implication here. Is it: more people being able to come out as trans = negative?
What? no? I'm not sure where you got that from. If more people get treatment that's more money that needs to come from tax payers, meaning it's more expensive than estimated most likely.

>ROTFL. I think I know what one of you favorite Youtube Channels / Personality Cults is.
Who? o.O I literally was just going with the two things that seemed worst, I'd rather not be shot in the head, and I'd rather not be raped, especially in a prison, because that means it's only penetration available without lube.
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>>5506843
>What? no? I'm not sure where you got that from. If more people get treatment that's more money that needs to come from tax payers, meaning it's more expensive than estimated most likely.

My apologies. Even if the amount of people transition where to go up i doubt the raise in tax payer dollars going to fund transitioning would be at all significant.

You waste more of you tax dollars on government bailouts and military funding.

I say cute large amounts of spending here. No more “to big to fail” if your venture is unsuccessful then you deal with the consequences. Stop policing the world as a military power, bring our troops home and focus solely on defense and using the military might to deal with domestic issues.

I am the type of person that doesn’t really mind spending a small amount of money so social and medical programs with the bulk of my tax dollars going to infrastructure.

>Which goes with my argument of if it because free they would get the full surgery and therapy done.

Not always. I am a trans woman who is non operative and have no desire to remove my penis.

I am from Miami and part of a smaller group of generally non conforming trans-women… Some trans girls are dykes down here and you have others who are also non operative who legitimately identify as “shemales” who areappropriating a negative term created by rad fems and perpetuated by the pornography industry and flipping it (though some of them are involved in the industry).

There are a lot of factors a play here socially and technologically.

>Who? o.O I literally was just going with the two things that seemed worst, I'd rather not be shot in the head, and I'd rather not be raped, especially in a prison, because that means it's only penetration available without lube.

There is a libertarian youtube personality by the name of Stefan Molyneux who often, loudly and violently compares taxation to being held at gun point and being rapped.

He has a large cult following.
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>>5506953
The issue I have with it is the taxing in the first place. If I had the money I'd willingly give to a charity or fund for the cause, but right now I'm barely getting by, and still being taxed.

>Not always. I am a trans woman who is non operative and have no desire to remove my penis.
It might be because I believe there are only 2 genders, but i'd just call you a beautiful man if you have a penis. I mean to insult by that, just the way I view it. in which case you can still get treatments to be more feminine, but all in all I'd classify you as a male, not trans.
same with the shemales. if you have a dick, even if you have breasts, you're a male.
I don't mean offense by that, it's just plain logic. You can be as feminine as you want, but that doesn't have anything to do with your gender honestly.

>There is a libertarian youtube personality by the name of Stefan Molyneux who often, loudly and violently compares taxation to being held at gun point and being rapped.
xD sounds french. does he surrender on debates a lot?
and by cult, what do you mean? XD do they all wear "stefan for president/ruler/queen" type stuff?
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>>5504246
the results of transitioning earlier and l8r
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>>5507254
See
>>5504292
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>>5507215

The issue I have with it is the taxing in the first place. If I had the money I'd willingly give to a charity or fund for the cause, but right now I'm barely getting by, and still being taxed.

That’s understandable. However I don’t believe a lot of people share your sentiment.

There is also the issue of living in an organized society this size. Not everything can depend on charitable donations. Citizens have needs and taxes are supposed to work towards establishing infrastructure and programs that create a small foundation for those needs. It’s a social contract.

I will agree that the ethical issue is that you are born into this social contract and cannot necessarily lave on your own terms. However this is another debate.

I think most people are willing to take advantage of this social contract because of the benefits, however small the seem lately, it offers them.

>It might be because I believe there are only 2 genders, but i'd just call you a beautiful man if you have a penis. I mean to insult by that, just the way I view it. in which case you can still get treatments to be more feminine, but all in all I'd classify you as a male, not trans.

That’s something I totally get which is why I am not all uppity about pronouns.

I know I am not a classical transexual. I am also well aware of the ongoing tension in the community between people like myself and atypical HBS girls (and even some self described AGP women, which just seems absurd to me).

>same with the shemales. if you have a dick, even if you have breasts, you're a male.
I don't mean offense by that, it's just plain logic.

However trans is a bit more complicated that the traditional biocentric view that is rooted in absolutism.

I know it seems like plain logic to assume anyone with a cock is male. I used to think the same thing (even bought into AGP crap).
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>>5507215

However gender (especially in America) is not isolated simply to biology. We have a vast history of creating an environment where we “play gender” in wester culture.

We have established gender as a means of presenting ones self as well as how we associate with media and products.

There is also a trans person genetic make-up and neurology to take into consideration.

Studties have show that trans women have hormonal, genetic and neurological factors contributing to how they frame themselves. The brains of trans women have been show to be uniquely between those of cis females and cis males before HRT.

It is my interpretation that, the our neurology especially, plays into how we “play gender” and internalize feminine memes.

>xD sounds french. does he surrender on debates a lot?
and by cult, what do you mean? XD do they all wear "stefan for president/ruler/queen" type stuff?

He is a US citizen (begrudgingly so I am assume) and no he thinks VERY highly of himself and his beliefs.

By cult I mean that he has developing a very large and distant following on his page and other sites of follow dogmatically devoted to his interpretation of libertarianism.

He also asks these people for money (to fund his youtube and other efforts) while asking them to remove family and friends from their lives who do not agree with their (cough* his) philosophy.

He is also, generally, pretty creepy and has a manoshpere redial thing going on.
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>>5505891
/pol/ is full of autistic weebs that fap off to lolicon, of course they'll push for pedo rights.
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>>5507345
just to make sure AGP = Autogynephilia right? (gonna be basing my response on that being the case)

I personally feel many people aren't that charitable anymore because we believe taxes to take care of it. Though as you said this is another debate not meant for the /lgbt/ thread.

I realize I made a typo with
>I'd classify you as a male, not trans
should of been not female. trans isn't a gender it's basically just the phase of transitioning to what you want to be. So I do agree you're still trans, unless you've gotten to the point you're happy with, in which case you were trans. At least in my eye, I don't know how other people view it.

>However trans is a bit more complicated that the traditional biocentric view that is rooted in absolutism.
How so? *not trolling literally want your opinion or facts on the matter*

>>5507378
(is this you too? @-@ from it starting in the middle I'm guessing it is.. which answers part of the last thing)
>We have established gender as a means of presenting ones self as well as how we associate with media and products.
Which I agree with, I just think there are two genders, male and female. I just don't go with the "gender fluid" and stuff like that because I don't think masculinity or femininity have anything to really do with your gender. (aka you can be a male and be "girlier" than a pagaent queen and vice versa

>He also asks these people for money (to fund his youtube and other efforts) while asking them to remove family and friends from their lives who do not agree with their (cough* his) philosophy.
o.O yeah, that sounds culty, though it just makes me wanna watch a video by him now.. any suggestions on a good(read cringy) one?
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>>5504234

Man, this sucks. http://charliewhite.info/teen-and-transgender-comparative-studies/
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>>5507460

>just to make sure AGP = Autogynephilia right? (gonna be basing my response on that being the case)

Yes.

I am not saying that people don’t exhibit autogynephilic or autoandrophalic behavior or that transvestites who sexually idealise being a women don’t exist.

I think they are in a minority. I also think that issues is a lot more complex.

I do however believe that using AGP as means of pathologizing who are not “homosexual transexuals" is pseudo science.

People have tried to tell me I have AGP in the past, specifically since in my teens I used to want to be a pornographic actress, and that's just something I won’t tolerate.

That said, I don’t have anything against people with fetishes. I strongly believe that most fetishes need to be removed from the DSM the way the are currently framed.
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>>5504292
>http://charliewhite.info/teen-and-transgender-comparative-studies/
pretty weird, and he has some weird animations too
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>>5507460

(still me)

>should of been not female. trans isn't a gender it's basically just the phase of transitioning to what you want to be. So I do agree you're still trans, unless you've gotten to the point you're happy with, in which case you were trans. At least in my eye, I don't know how other people view it.

That makes sense. You’re right I am not a cisgender female. I was born male and I don’t have dysphoria over that part of my body.

I do have extreme dysphoria over having gone through male puberty: my hight and skeletal structure make me physically sick sometimes…

Not having breasts, hips and female curves, and other female body cues and secondary sex characteristics makes me emotionally and psycho-moteraly depressed.

Not having been raised and socialized as a girl being able to to traditionally "girl” things or having girl friends is a devastating memory.

I never even did “boy” things when I was young either. I shut myself up into my Sega genesis and science fiction / action / musical movies, comic books and anime. (stuff I always assumed was pretty gender neutral… My mom was a tomboy.)

Sorry, I got off on a tangent. What I am getting at is that while I don’t mind my peen I get a whole lot of psychological pain from not having everything else to do with being “female.”

I used to dream about being a girl (and my dreams where very elaborate… almost like I knew the social pressure place on my to be a boy was wrong) and most of my fantasy play was focused around growing up to be a woman.
>>
>>5507543
I feel like this pic series is flawed... I mean, yeah that can be accurate but if, say, a young and effeminate AMAB gets hrt they'll probably end up looking as small as the cis girls in the pictures.

Obviously with a squarer jaw and other male features but there's no way a twink who starts estrogen at 18 will end up looking like a she-hulk
>>
>>5507460

(stil me)

>Which I agree with, I just think there are two genders, male and female. I just don't go with the "gender fluid" and stuff like that because I don't think masculinity or femininity have anything to really do with your gender. (aka you can be a male and be "girlier" than a pagaent queen and vice versa

Right. I think this is the underlying “culture war” (I wouldn’t even call it that) lately.

I understand the 2 gender view. It is rooted in an established norm. Binary gender and sex and statistical norms.

I know however that I don’t fit into either mold. So while I don’t really care if you call me a male, I wouldn’t ever want to be called a man and it does make me feel awkward to be so invisible.

I understand the disdain the community here has for “Tumblr” language like gender fluid but I I honestly believe that people between male and female exist. I am one and I know them as friends.

We are not normal however so we are susceptible to being written off.

At the end of the day I don’t care and I do me… but it’s frustrating.
>>
>>5507501
>http://charliewhite.info/teen-and-transgender-comparative-studies/


Why does it suck?

I love these sets.
>>
>>5507565
Depends on the age…

You bones structure is being affect by hormones all through puberty.

If you can get on T blockers before your 20s then male bone formation should be minimal and halted.
>>
>>5504234
as a (fairly) straight male, I kinda like the one on the right more. what does that say about me?
>>
>>5507617

It says: I like the on on the right more.

Assigning ridged taxonomies to sexual orientation and stereotypes on how these people are supposed to behave is a relatively modern thing.

Queer theory suggests that the commodification of sexual orientation into social commodities is a result of a consumeristic society.

I am not saying this is a bad thing… However the ridged stereotypes and memes perpetrated be by global Mass Consumer Culture are way to ridged.

In reality I think what this say about you is that you are attracted to people with androgynous characteristics (I am not implying a sexual attraction here) much like the majority of the species.
>>
>>5507524
>I used to want to be a pornographic actress
not related, but may I ask why?

I may be wrong, but I thought AGP was basically just being (sexually)attracted to a female/male version of yourself. or what you think you'd look like as a woman/man.
So I was thinking people who identify as AGP meant they were wanting to be what they idealize themself as, as a woman/man. (Sorry if this is completely off.)

there isn't much, that can be done at this point about you having to go through male puberty, and having developed more masculine traits, though hopefully hormone therapy, and maybe some cosmetic surgery if the hormones aren't enough, can help you get to a happier body image for yourself, which might help with your depression and help balance you emotionally.

What do you consider raised with traditionally girl things? I don't know where you're from personally, but I've grown up in 3 parts of the US, a native village(1-200 people total), the bible belt in a suburban area, and a ghetto that wasn't really the best place for kids. and each kind of had difference opinions on how girls were raised traditionally. with my village having no real difference between the guys and girls, except that girls prepared food more while guys went fishing more, though after late teens girls were also fishing and guys were cooking if they wanted. (the other two places having differences as well)

and for the female friends thing, I'm kind of the opposite, I don't get along with many guys at all, and have basically only had female friends.

Also no reason to be sorry for a tangent, you're a fun anon to talk to.
though do you think your dreams might have been a bit too fantasy? things might not have been the way they were in your dreams, though it's hard to tell since it's in the past now.
>>
>>5507585
sorry, didn't see this one when I posted.
I also don't really see gender as how someone acts/feels though, I see it just as what they have/want to have. like if someone wants a manly chest, but a vagina, while some would probably say they're intergender, I'd classify them as a female, and vice versa. I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to write off your gender or anything, I just see it as bigger circles I guess. I agree you're trans, and feminine, but I personally think you are either a male or female. the problem arises with sex organs, which is where I base my genders off of. because women don't have dicks, and guys don't have vaginas. (that isn't mean to come off as thinking lesser of trans people who are pre-op, Though I feel they should give a warning to their S/O before hand so it doesn't become an issue in the moment.) (have a kind of funny story about that dealing with me and an ex bf, but that's for another time.)
>>
>>5507657
>not related, but may I ask why?

Some very selfish reasons really. Some genuine, most childish and others very, *sigh*, unethical.

As an entertainment form and art I l love pornography.

My family had HBO when I was really young and I used to sneak out after bed time to watch it. That when I discovered porn, lol.

Cheesy 80’s stuff with bad stories or themes like cybernetics. I was fascinated by and the cheap production which contrasted the nature of mainstream media. It seems hyper real.

My parents where not guarded about what the human body was used for when it came to the sexes and reproduction. They where realists. So you know when you in the show with you mom and dad and a spawnlet you ask question about junk.

They where very upfront and scientific about everything.

there was no stork meme for me and my brother. We knew where babies came from very young.

That covers the genuine. Porn was art to me.

The childish was: Porn would be a way for me to make money… escape parents who didn’t get my trans-ness and a way of establishing an income for myself.

The selfishness of it all was that I got off on the idea of basically treating porn consumers as objects… Bank accounts to bleed dry for my needs.

That scared the shit out of me.
>>
>>5507703
very capitalistic of you haha.
Though you kind of sound like most pornstars /cam girls. You enjoy it from the sound of things, and want to make money off of it.
>>
>>5507657
>I may be wrong, but I thought AGP was basically just being (sexually)attracted to a female/male version of yourself. or what you think you'd look like as a woman/man.
>So I was thinking people who identify as AGP meant they were wanting to be what they idealize themself as, as a woman/man. (Sorry if this is completely off.)

From a cursory perspective you are right.. which is why I don’t deny some AGP people exist.

However in the 80’s it was used by Ray Blanchard and his team of “experts” to basically devalued and ease any trans woman who wasn’t solely attracted to males as a fetish freak not worthy of access to medical resources.

>there isn't much, that can be done at this point about you having to go through male puberty, and having developed more masculine traits, though hopefully hormone therapy, and maybe some cosmetic surgery if the hormones aren't enough, can help you get to a happier body image for yourself, which might help with your depression and help balance you emotionally.

Oh trust me, I know, and i deal with those demons. I am working to save money for the cosmetic work and HRT therapy I need right now. Much like you though I am a broke mother fucker.

>What do you consider raised with traditionally girl things? I don't know where you're from personally, but I've grown up in 3 parts of the US, a native village(1-200 people total), the bible belt in a suburban area, and a ghetto that wasn't really the best place for kids. and each kind of had difference opinions on how girls were raised traditionally. with my village having no real difference between the guys and girls, except that girls prepared food more while guys went fishing more, though after late teens girls were also fishing and guys were cooking if they wanted. (the other two places having differences as well).

By girly things I basically mean the memes that reenforce how we “play gender” in western culture.
>>
>>5507703

(still me)
Because I was a male and everyone kept telling I was a boy and praising me for It I felt ashamed to watch to watch shows like Jem or Rainbow Bright, even though I related with them more.

When we went to Toys’R’Us I felt bad for eating Barbie dolls or Lisa Frank stationary.

I forced myself to by action figures… I mean well in all honesty I wanted both the action figures and the “girl toys” but the shame I felt from wanting the girl toys just felt so wrong and unreal… Like I was kidding myself.

I had this girl as a friend who was our back door neighbor.

I used to hang with her all the time and confess her how I was jealous and wanted to be a girl like her. She was pretty sympathetic but i never fixed anything.
>>
>>5507649
you have sincerely opened my mind.
>>
>>5507721
>very capitalistic of you haha.
>Though you kind of sound like most pornstars /cam girls. You enjoy it from the sound of things, and want to make money off of it.


Ha! yep.

As much I as try to advocate a moderate final policy (I am a Mutualist) I have a drive inside of me to just suck people dry.

Honestly a mixture of compassion (I am a people pleaser by nature), dysphoria and shame rooted in fear prevented me from transitioning back then.

Now here I am at 31 trying my hardest to make money to transition quickly.

I don’t want to be what the girl here call a “Hon.”
I don’t want to be ugly or male at all… and that the biggest fear that has always paralyzed me:

I am fucking 6’4 and my family have deep raspy voices so it’s like WTF!

My worst fear is being perceived as the thing from The Silence of the Lambs.
>>
>>5507767
This is 4chan so I really have no idea if you’re being genuine.
>>
>>5504589
You know what else is fatal? Suicide caused by turning 30 and realising what a gargantuan irreversible mistake were allowed to make when you were 12.
>>
>>5507730
>However in the 80’s it was used by Ray Blanchard and his team of “experts” to basically devalued and ease any trans woman who wasn’t solely attracted to males as a fetish freak not worthy of access to medical resources.

Not at all. Blanchard coined the term AGP (the concept starts with him), but he did not use it as a basis for denying care.

Rather, he universally stigmatized trans women by reducing their identities to EITHER being a homosexual man with such an advanced case of that sexuality as to require a female appearance to fool more men into sex, OR a heterosexual man whose "natural libidinous drive to possess women" was misdirected at himself (as well). Either way, he supported transition for both of the groups he had divided trans women into.

He's advocated for us, even as he has enforced and endorsed keeping us on the margins of society. It's complicated, and I wonder at the old fart's ability to trick people into buying repackaged debunked Freudian fantasies.

Don't ask about trans men.
>>
>>5507798

How about turning 30 and realizing that you could have changed shit when you where 12…

Fuck off back to /pol/.
>>
>>5507730
People like R.B. give science a bad name it sounds like...

>I am a broke mother fucker.
at least you get to fuck mothers.
on a serious note though, have you thought of making a go fund me, or something? it might help you at least be able to afford HRT therapy. or something.

I'm gonna guess that's more like the bible belt with dolls, and jump rope instead of bikes and action figures? though in the bible belt I was in my late teens, so I also noticed a bit of a difference with teens, girls hanging out at the mall, or going on girls only dates to get hair and nails done then a movie and stuff like that..

I know you're not a kid anymore, but have you tried emulating it a bit on your own? (like buying yourself some dolls, or trying to get some girlfriends to do the same type stuff with?) I've taken an ex for a spa date, where we both got a mani/pedi, she made me get my nails coloured too which I was iffy about, got the most flesh looking colour i could to try to hide it at work, though you can always just get a clear coat. maybe get a massage or hair cut, then either relax with a movie, or over dinner while gossiping some.

It might help you feel better by living some of the childhood things you wish you could of gone through.(i mean heck I still have my transformer toys and some G.I. Joes from when I was a kid that I play with. though now that I have a niece and nephew I get toplay with their toys under the guise of "having to play with them")

I kind of felt the same, though I was lucky my mom was a stay at home mom and ran a day care so I didn't have to worry about girl's toys, I got to play with them with the girls she watched. (this goes along with the, try watching more feminine shows now too, I'm into comics and stuff from adventure time, to silk and lots of other things. I don't really connect them to a gender though and neither do the guys at my comic shop. though they did get a laugh when I bought MLP for my niece.
>>
>>5507814
You mean not being the EXACT perfect little fairy your brain imagined? You are so fucking delusionally selfish you'll let children kill themselves to suit your pathetic self interests.

Utter disgust.
>>
>>5507779
> I have a drive inside of me to just suck people dry.
>MFW that's the first thing I read
I kind of agree with mutualism I believe, though when explaining it my dad calls it more communism than anything.

I've met a good number of tall women, I personally am not put off by height, though I can understand why some would be, especially when there are girls who refuse to date anyone shorter than them.

Really though if your whole family is tall then you'd of probably been a tall female still.

(I don't know if this threat will be here when I wake up, but if so hopefully I see you tomorrow, if not, nice meeting you anonybro)
>>
>>5507812
>Not at all. Blanchard coined the term AGP (the concept starts with him), but he did not use it as a basis for denying care.
>Rather, he universally stigmatized trans women by reducing their identities to EITHER being a homosexual man with such an advanced case of that sexuality as to require a female appearance to fool more men into sex, OR a heterosexual man whose "natural libidinous drive to possess women" was misdirected at himself (as well). Either way, he supported transition for both of the groups he had divided trans women into.
>He's advocated for us, even as he has enforced and endorsed keeping us on the margins of society. It's complicated, and I wonder at the old fart's ability to trick people into buying repackaged debunked Freudian fantasies.
>Don't ask about trans men.


You are right.

However, I am going to go out of limb here and say that labeling “Non-Homosexual” transwomen as fetishist is an easy way to give doctors an excuse to deny them treatment or frame the treatment incorrectly.

He is the sexologist responsible for so many benign kink’s being labeled label as diseases in various DSM iterations.

I will never view his warped preception of us as advocation…

In fact girls spending his memes on the net back in the late 90’s and 00’s where one of the reasons I was afraid to transition… they made me think I was a freak.

Why ever ask about trans men, lol? I know Blanchard didn’t! He thinks they don’t even exist.

If that wasn’t blatant sexism then IDK what is.

Either way, now that trans girl are getting better care and a better understanding in the psych community I find it funny that he resigned from the board.

It is my feeling that he had a dog in the fight with his pet theory. I may, however, be being paranoid.
>>
>>5507839
>You mean not being the EXACT perfect little fairy your brain imagined? You are so fucking delusionally selfish you'll let children kill themselves to suit your pathetic self interests.
>Utter disgust.

OMG, you are such a paper thing parody.

Just stop honey.

You know things are not that black and white… and if you don’t, well maybe the Real World isn’t the place for you.
>>
>>5507839
Self-identifies trans people constitute a very small segment of the population. Of that very small segment, only a very small segment report experiencing regret for any reason other than stygmayization. Of *that* very small segment, only a very small segment regret transitioning because they no longer identified with their target gender.

It has happened, but it's less common for a self-identified trans person to wind up in that circumstance than it is for a completely random person picked out of a crowd to be trans.

These people still need care and compassion, but using them to justify not treating trans people at all is both callous and disingenuous of you.
>>
>>5504234
The age of consent should be 25 considering how fucking stupid everybody is. After 25 most people finally develop the mind set of a teenager and try to get shit together.
>>
>>5507860
>It is my feeling that he had a dog in the fight with his pet theory. I may, however, be being paranoid.

He did, and does. It's his immortality, so to speak, and his prize pupils' careers.
>>
>>5507823

(ME)

>People like R.B. give science a bad name…

They do, and as someone who leans left I am the first to admit that the sciences, especially the social sciences, today are plagued by people like this.

Even when some of what new theories have to say have empirical or epistemological validity they get dawn into the popularization of it all.

Popularizing science isn’t a bad thing until popularization for views and money becomes the sole reason for study.

> >I am a broke mother fucker.
at least you get to fuck mothers.

Hahahaha, stop. I haven’t slept with anyone n like 3 years.

I have thought about it, but then again there is always this nagging, “I ain’t worth shit” voice in my head that tell me it would be fruitless.

I think that may be one of my major problems.

>I'm gonna guess that's more like the bible belt with dolls, and jump rope instead of bikes and action figures? though in the bible belt I was in my late teens, so I also noticed a bit of a difference with teens, girls hanging out at the mall, or going on girls only dates to get hair and nails done then a movie and stuff like that..

IDK man Miami is a very weird place socially. Very ridged gender roles, reaffirmed by the South American culture.

The whole mall thing was clear to me too… but I was an otaku and a shut in my tweens.

In my 20’s I was having out with a bunch of people 3-5 years younger than me cuz I came into my own socially while pretending to be cool with “boys stuff” and male cultural memes.

I was still androgynous and the “weird one.”

Hell, in night school math class, I had a bunch of ghetto kids try me infant of the class when I called them out of using the word transvestite incorrectly.
>>
>>5507823

>I know you're not a kid anymore, but have you tried emulating it a bit on your own? (like buying yourself some dolls, or trying to get some girlfriends to do the same type stuff with?) I've taken an ex for a spa date, where we both got a mani/pedi, she made me get my nails coloured too which I was iffy about, got the most flesh looking colour i could to try to hide it at work, though you can always just get a clear coat. maybe get a massage or hair cut, then either relax with a movie, or over dinner while gossiping some.

Yes, I am basically androgynous right now with my style leaning on feminine.

I get shit for it but I solider on.

Currently, I work at a high end burger restaurant with a kitchen staff full of black male ex cons.

The give me shit all the time and try to frame me in their masculine stereotypes: “Like oh XXX don’t get to rek!” (therefore I am better than him I guess is the assumption), Not knowing I really don’t give a shit.

I have some Monster High Dolls and I used to help mod my ex GF Blythes before she even knew about my gender.

I haven’t been to a spa or a nail place yet. Money issues and basic social fear an inadequacy that I need to overcome.

>(i mean heck I still have my transformer toys and some G.I. Joes from when I was a kid that I play with. though now that I have a niece and nephew I get toplay with their toys under the guise of "having to play with them

Lol I don’t have my old toys (I had Monster In my Pockets) but I still have my full collection of 80s /90/s action Cannon Films. Those never go anywhere.

I am a Retro Girl.

Thankfully strong and fleshed out women are better represented in todays media.

I saw Episode 7 yesterday and I was like in tears it was so awesome.
>>
>>5507848
> I have a drive inside of me to just suck people dry.
>MFW that's the first thing I read

OMG, wrong choice of words much!

>I kind of agree with mutualism I believe, though when explaining it my dad calls it more communism than anything.

I get the same thing from my mom. She constantly calls me a socialist, and while I understand why she would think that, I always have to reexplain things.

I lean just slightly left when it comes to fiscal stuff, but I am friends with a lot of libertarians and right transhumanists who favor strong free markets.>

for a “liberal” I get where they are coming from but as far as taxes are concerned we have different opinions.

>Really though if your whole family is tall then you'd of probably been a tall female still.

>(I don't know if this threat will be here when I wake up, but if so hopefully I see you tomorrow, if not, nice meeting you anonybro)

Nice to meet you too… You right I should fear. I have a lot of self destructive and self deprecating “demons” inside of me though.
>>
>>5507797
I'm being genuine for once
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>>5504413
>having children doped up on stimulants, SSRIs and other mind altering drugs is also child abuse
damn you really rekt that hypothetical person
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>>5508130

Well that’s a like third for me on this chan, albeit I don’t post often here.

When I do I am either seen as a troll, cancer or just ignored.

I havne’t posted on Tumblr one in my life and this “go back to "tumblr” meme is weird an off putting.
>>
Age of consent should be 13/14. By the time your body is going through puberty, you should understand what the fuck it does. There should be adequate sex ed classes with the age of consent being this low.

I believe the main reason why the AoC is so high in western countries is because our sex ed is fucking shit. We wanna p-p-protect muh childreeennnss!!! so badly, we don't let them know anything about sex even when their bodies are going through the changes. Someone who has no idea how sex or relationships work cannot consent to sex. Someone who does understand can. And your "ability" to understand isn't limited to age. You don't suddenly become smarter when you turn 18.

Just a simple "don't have sex with anyone you don't trust or love because sex is supposed to be something special shared between two people, and be wary of stds and use protection always" isn't that hard to understand. If a middle school aged person can't understand that, they're retarded.
>>
>>5508258
I feel that it should be more around 15/16. When you hit 13/14 you're still kinda getting used to puberty and it's effects on you. 15/16 you'll have a much better grasp on yourself than a fresh out of middle school kid would.
>>
>>5508266
I don't think so. We live in an era where we have internet and books and other resources. You don't need to observe your own puberty for 5+ years to understand what puberty is. You can simply google.
>>
>>5508278
Agreed.
>>
>>5507524
I'm glad that you clarified here, because I think using "AGP" as a shorthand for theories using AGP is troubling. It ends up leading to tons of people vehemently arguing that my experience "isn't real."

>>5507812
>>5507860
Your anger is misdirected at people who misinterpret (and I presume have never even looked at the abstract of) his paper, which I just glanced through now. First, it's 99% descriptive, not prescriptive. Second, he acknowledges weakness in the study based on low sample sizes and crude surveying. But still, there are significant distinctions in people referred to as "TruTrans" here and others. Even so, if some transwomen or others have AGP, the real result is.....who cares?

>Why ever ask about trans men, lol? I know Blanchard didn’t! He thinks they don’t even exist.
no, he thinks autoandrophiles don't exist


>diseases
disease, disorder, illness, whatever. stop stigmatizing people who have conditions
>>
>>5508299
>disease, disorder, illness, whatever. stop stigmatizing people who have conditions


I am not stigmatizing people with disease.

I have a very skeptical view of how metal disorders are pathologized.

I would be the first person to want to remove the stigma of “mental illness” from autogyenphalic individuals.

In fact I would even suspect a lot of HBS, TruTransexual and Transgender Girls have some AGP tendencies as well as some cis women.

I, however, do not want my gender identity defined by my sexual interests or fetish ( I have a lot of those and they are independent of my trans-ness).

His connection to the clinic in Canada also brings his motives into question.

My anger is not misdirected at him… It's not even anger really. I just don’t like, trust or give credit to the man.

He blatantly refused to listen to trans lesbians and bisexuals and ignored trans men completely.

Thats not defendable IMO.

>no, he thinks autoandrophiles don't exist

Considering he framed transexuals in black and white its not stretch to assume his perception of transmen was blatant sexism.
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>>5507839
>You are so fucking delusionally selfish you'll let children kill themselves to suit your pathetic self interests.
>>
>>5504255
/pol/ was right again
goddamnit
>>
>>5508583
Except it's not actually LGBT (or at least the mainstream LGBT community) that's pushing for pedo rights. It's usually /pol/ and their ilk PRETENDING to be the mainstream LGBT community (whether the individuals in question are LGBT or not) that's pushing for pedo rights in an attempt to make everyone think that LGBTs are degenerate.
>>
>>5504234
Age of consent for sex varies by area and is different from consent for medical issues, just like there's a different legal age for drinking.
In short, you're either a retard or this is pedo/pol bait.

>>5504255
No, polyamory could be the next step.
Bestiality and pedophilia is a separate issue because it violates consent.
>>
>>5504292
Their cis teen counterparts, so adult trans women compared to cis teens.
>>
>>5504359
>>5505554
>>5505566
>>5505870
>>5508583
>we wus right about le degenerates! it's da habbening! time fo da day of rope!

Or more likely this is yet another /pol/ troll thread like is made multiple times a day since there's so much overlap with you oversensitive morons and pedophiles and you love to use the same sort of deceptive tactics that you accuse tumblr/reddit/sjws/whatever other boogieman of using in order to try to get people to work against their own interests.
>>
>>5508258
The trouble is that some groups, mainly political and religious conservatives, try to get the "use protection always" part removed because they feel it undermines the other points.
>>
>>5508299
Doesn't really make sense though. I can get you ending up with messed up turn ons and that's understandable, but someone who transitions just because of them, not the body dismorphia couldn't be Trans from a clinical sense.

I mean, really those clownish fifty year old married men who got through their life without any body dysmorphia and now throw on a tutu so they can wank don't haveGD.

Also where the hell do effeminate gay males who take hormones or other mtf stuff to look feminine fall into that schema.

It just doesn't work at all in the modern erra.
>>
>>5507921
(I'm back)
>Popularizing science isn’t a bad thing until popularization for views and money becomes the sole reason for study.
Fucking this^. I'm all for science getting more popularity, because that helps with funding and stuff. Except now we're getting funding based on if we can prove what the funding company/group wants to prove, even if we have to use B.S. science to do it.

>I haven’t slept with anyone n like 3 years.
Damn, it's only been about a year and a half for me. Though mine is more from going to other countries for a mix of research and sight seeing; don't get me wrong, I had chances to have some "private fun" but I don't really like one night stand/fling type encounters. (If you gotta go anyways might as well have fun.)
Though may I ask why you think it'd be "fruitless?" Do you mean in terms of being able to keep the relationship, or more you don't think you'd be able to get one. (If you don't mind my asking.)

Of all the places I've been I haven't really explored many latin@ countries like Mexico and Central/South America, so I'm at a loss with trying to relate.
Though the traditional/rigid gender roles I think I get from looking at older media.
I thought florida was kind of like california with being more open to the LGBT community, I don't know your sexuality, but maybe hanging out with effeminate gay guys can be a step to being able to girlier?

> I work at a high end burger restaurant with a kitchen staff full of black male ex cons.
>They give me shit all the time...
Do you think they're just trying to help you fit in, albeit in a counter productive way since you WANT to be more feminine? I honestly don't know so I apologize if they're dickish about it.

>I haven’t been to a spa or a nail place yet. Money issues and basic social fear an inadequacy that I need to overcome.
Dude I know it's easier said than done, but just save like 5 dollars a week (here I can get a mani/pedi for about 30 dollars(cont)
>>
>>5507939
(still me)
and I usually give a tip(unless the guy/girl is a dick/rude, but most of the people in the salon know me now) so I can go every other month or so as long as things don't come up, (tire blows, getting sick ect.ect.). I've gone in in things ranging from a full beard and messy hair, to clean shaven, and "girly hair" (one of the people commented I had really girl like hair and kept playing with it because it was long and soft). So just try going in and basically saying "fuck what you think, this shit is relaxing." First time I went was with my straight bro. (Though the first time he went was because of a bet. so you can always try that as an excuse.)

>I saw Episode 7 yesterday and I was like in tears it was so awesome.
I'm a starwars fan, but wasn't thinking about that so it took me a good 10 minutes to figure out episode 7 of what. xD I heard mainly good things about it, though also there were some mary sue stuff in it. (which is a pet peeve of mine.) might watch that instead of getting a mani/pedi this time.

>OMG, wrong choice of words much!
You mean best choice of words!

Age of consent for sex should be 15-16 because we're not supposed to be going through puberty when we're 8-9. That comes from a higher fat diet if I recall.
Age of consent for this specific issue I do think should be lowered though.
And off topic, but I believe the drinking age should be lowered as well.

>TFW people read pedophile as child molestor/CP enthusiast.
I feel pedophilia should get some attention so we can deal with it better by allowing people to come forward without having to fear their life is ruined, even if they've never owned CP or touched a kid. I mean look at the Virtuous Pedophiles I think they're called... a group that outs people who touch kids or look at the porn, but tries to help pedophiles who don't WANT to like them.
All lowering the age of consent for sex will do it allow some pedophiles to get the kids they want.
>>
>>5509260
>pedophilia is a separate issue because it violates consent.
Right now it just violates consent because the law says so.
>>
>>5504234
the aoc should be around 13.

it used to be 12 in spain.
>>
>>5510542
And the law says that because it is generally the case that a child cannot give meaningful and valid consent to sex with an adult. Changing the law won't change that.
>>
>>5504255
Pedos already tried to join our movement. Ages ago. Key word "tried." It was called NAMBLA. Gay people vocally rejected this and the pedos' efforts basically failed.
>>
>>5509260
>Age of consent for sex varies by area and is different from consent for medical issues, just like there's a different legal age for drinking.
>In short, you're either a retard or this is pedo/pol bait.

Have you ever gone outside? Or even read >>5504973
>>5505762
>>5504589

The age of consent affects medical decisions. And this thread wasn't even about about sex, that's I know you're a /pol/ troll cause you can't read.
>>
>>5511311
"Age of consent" is almost always associated with sex. And universally lowering the age of consent WOULD have sexual consequences.
>>
>>5511353
Why does everything have to come back to sex with you? What about a person's well being or freedom? This is what this discussion should be about. If you want to discuss sex with the underage make another thread.

Even If the consent age was lowered even to 17 there would less mortality rates. A child knows from age four what they are, why should other people choose their identity for them?
>>
Just passing by, saw this on the mainpage.

How about you all stop being winey pussies and live with the hand god (or spaghetti) monster has dealt you, thats what all us average CIS scum do
>>
>>5511097
>Gay people vocally rejected this and the pedos efforts basically failed.
A proud day to be a homosexual, no doubt. Especially since anytime before the 1960's just about everyone assumed that all homos were also pedos, or perhaps that was part of the propaganda trying to smear them in the public eye to make them all look like degenerates.
>>
>>5511635
>A child knows from age four what they are
>Even If the consent age was lowered even to 17 there would less mortality rates.
Citation Fucking Needed.

>. If you want to discuss sex with the underage make another thread.
The reprucussions of what you're wanting are part of this thread, otherwise you're asking for an echochamber. if that's the case unplug your computer, throw it out the window, and go the fuck outside.

>>5511673
nice b8 m8

>>5511768
Pedos are mainly degenerates from it being a mental illness. There are some horrible pedophiles, such as anyone who has touched a kid or looked at CP, but there are also pedos that can control themselves and just want help/research on the subject to try to get better.
>>
>>5511635
"Age of consent" is a term that usually implies sex (that's the context in which it comes up most often in conversation) and this is after all a board largely based on sexuality. Besides, /pol/ comes around here once a week and asks us why we're so opposed to the rape of children if we're okay with gay marriage.
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