Okay, so let's try and see how this one goes edition.
First general thread (I think)
> AGP questions & answers.
> Thoughts & feelings / emotions.
> Help, advice and / or guidance.
> Be cozy and chill out.
> Post fits, inspo etc.
> Tell tales.
Go, go, go!
With me, I'd say it's close to 60/40 or 55/45. It especially shows whenever I'm in a relationship. The first few months the sex is as it should be etc, but it usually comes to an end, and afterwards all I want is a man treating me like a woman (in bed as well)
Well my understanding is a non agp trans person wants to transition to alleviate dysphoria by changing their body. While agp want to change their body in order to fulfill their sexual fetish.
Again I really have no idea though.
I've always thought I like women, but I've been increasingly unsure. Is my attraction because of self-insertion and not attraction at all? I posted here if you're interested
>I thought agp was being aroused at the thought of yourself being a woman.
pretty accurate, yeah. I don't see why you couldn't be attracted to men, but it doesn't correlate as well
I'm not circumcised and still turned out to be an agp trans-lesbian, so it's certainly not a necessary condition. My suspicion is that it doesn't cause agp or trans feelings either; about half of the males in America are circumcised and we don't seem to have a higher rate of this sort of thing than other countries where circumcision is rare, as far as I'm aware.
Im not a tranny though. Im a plain old dyke. Its just my fetish. The trans thing isnt for me.
I decided I was trans maybe around 15 or so, a bit after discovering trans stuff online in a context that wasn't Jerry Springer, the Rocky Horror Picture Show or pornography. Basically what happened was I developed a nerd crush on a really nice and smart woman online (completely one-sided, just me reading what she wrote and such) that I later discovered was trans, and that resulted in a lot of self-reflection, which eventually resolved as a pretty clear feeling that I really wanted to be a girl. From there on I was more or less wavering between wanting to transition and doing my best to procrastinate and distract myself from actually doing so because I was so incredibly scared and embarrassed by the prospect. I finally managed to actually get my shit together and start HRT this year at the age of 29, and so far (about seven months in) I'm definitely glad that I've started, but feel a lot of regret about not starting earlier; there's nothing I can do about that, though, so I'm trying my best to focus on what I can do instead.
Its mostly the penis. Its the idea of being able to penetrate someone/impregnate them/cum on their face. But the idea of fucking a girl in the mens locker rooms etc i also think are pretty hot, sex segregated areas. I dont think I would want to be a man, but if penis transplants for ftm became a thing I'd really have to give that another thought. My sexual identity is really wrapped up in it. I can't orgasm 'as a woman'.
XX females have autogynephilia, XY males have autoandrophilia. It's just a mechanism for specimen to make their body match the expectations of possible partners in order to have posterity.
The whole theory is wrong just because it studies only XY females and had no studies among XX females or XY males.
That's all folks ;^|
Alright so I'm going to preface this with by saying that this is my first time on any board concerning being LGBT and I don't understand a fourth of the term people are throwing around here.
Alright so basically I'm not sure what the fuck I'm feeling. There are some days when I seriously think about transitioning but don't because I usually think about that kind of stuff while horny, and afterwords I kind of just rationalize it as a fetish or kink and nothing serious. However even while not horny I think about being a fem guy and having a bf (though that sometimes leads into being horny).
So I guess my main problem is that I can't tell where my feelings end and where my teenage sex drive begins. Plus where I live under my parents roof in a heavily christian area where this is not tolerated period I can't talk about this with them either.
>There are some days when I seriously think about transitioning but don't because I usually think about that kind of stuff while horny,
then you jerk off, and
>and afterwords I kind of just rationalize it as a fetish or kink and nothing serious.
>However even while not horny I think about being a fem guy and having a bf (though that sometimes leads into being horny).
Dysphoria has not developed\unfolded completely yet.
The thing is, when you jerk off and cum the prolactin hormone is released, which affects your mood, creating the feeling of content. When under this hormone the wish and motivation to change is depressed.
Try not to jerk off for at least a month and you'll know how consistent your feelings are.
how do you feel about the claim that there are fewer FTMs compared to MTFs because FTMs are more free to express masculinity while remaining accepted in society? like were you always a tomboy?
>Not Jerk Off
I'M JUST ONE MAN! Errrr, well uhh...yeah.
But In all seriousness that's pretty good advice, I really would like to know how much of me really wants to be a woman.
That being said though I don't really know if I would go through with it either way. Like I'm afraid after it happens one day I think, 'Oh man, remember when we had that thing? That uhhhh...penis, yeah! Oh man that was good times.'
Essentially, I'm afraid that all the dribble my parents have been feeding me about how I'm letting the world shape me and I'm not really trans at all is actually true and when I become a girl that I'll have ruined everything.
Besides, last time I tried coming out as just gay /bi my mom cried for like a week and I was grounded for months. They might not disown me but, I honestly don't know if they'd ever invite me back for Christmas or thanksgiving/etc.
My uncle was gay and he moved to Florida when I was young and I hadn't heard from him in years until last year when he had cancer. I don't know if my family had a falling out with him over that or not but, I'm seriously afraid I try to do something like that I'll end up the same way and not hear from my parents until I'm on my deathbed.
Also never knew that about the whole cumming creates a hormone that makes you content thing.
Even if you're trans you don't need to get rid of your penis, non-op transwomen are a thing. I mean, I'm keeping mine. In any case, take things at your own pace, and do some self-exploration to try to figure out what makes you happy.
Funny you should say that, I kind of do that on the Gay Chatroom over on chat ave sometimes but that's a bit rare. I honestly don't know how my body looks but I love being girly for at least a little while on there.
I try to do that less and less though because I've reached a point where I know I'm bot going to be able to keep up anything long term form there because they are all old and crusty.
Okay my joke may have altered the meaning of my statement a bit. What I was getting at is that if I become a woman I might regret it and want to become a man again due to all the christian anti-trans dribble put in my head.
In fact the only reason I acknowledge my penis exists when I'm horny is because it's the only way I can actually get off, otherwise when horny I like to pretend it doesn't exist.
That definitely sounds like genital dysphoria, yeah. In any case, it sounds like you're pretty sure you know what you want, but are afraid of being judged by others and yourself if things don't go smoothly. That's really a terrible feeling to have, I know. I still have that feeling today, and my situation isn't nearly as difficult as yours, so I have a lot of sympathy for what it must be like for you. I guess all I can really say is try to do your best to do what is right for you.
Thank you for your concern but my life really is not as bad as my post made it out to be, I mean this all does weigh sort of heavily but, at least at the moment I'd be content with being a fem guy. Future me though may have a different opinion on the issue but that's his/her problem.
I just wish there was like,a test drive for being a woman, and if I didn't like it I could just return it or some shit and no harm would have been done. But nooooooo it's gotta be all 'final' and stuff.
Honestly though, even if I decided I liked being a man better I could deal with it, the effect it would have on the people around me is what I couldn't handle.
On the physical side of things, aside from sex reassignment surgery, it's really not all that final. With hormones, the only permanent results are breast growth and infertility, but breast reductions and sperm banking are options. The social difficulties you'd face are also very real concerns, though, you are right about that.
Yeah, I assume that you have already went through this process before? You sound like you are speaking from experience. I'd like to do this kind of thing but, at the same time I feel like I can wait because it's not like every second I spend being a guy is torture or anything.
And that's sort of my issue, if I really was trans wouldn't I hate every minute of being a guy? Wouldn't I want nothing more than to transition and be done with it? If so then why does the idea of just living my life as a slightly fem guy not kill me inside? This is why I just don't know, I would like to become a girl but I wouldn't mind staying as I am.
How do i possibly figure out what my feelings are?
I think it's not uncommon for trans people to not hate everything about their life pre-transition; I mean, even depressed people are able to genuinely enjoy or laugh at some things in spite of their depression. It also makes plenty of sense that you might want to transition but value your family above what you think is a self-centered desire, family is massively important to most people. You might also be okay just being a feminine guy; you might find that that is the best compromise you can reach given your conflicting needs.
I will say that I don't suggest just trying to wait things out because they are uncomfortable; I did that for many, many years, and regret the lost time and opportunities. Try a bunch of different small things without huge consequences and see what feels right, I guess; just don't feel like you need to do nothing because the thought of doing anything makes you uncomfortable.
Well no one can tell you what to do, it's all up to you to decide!
It's a big thing.. when you stop being a kid, you suddenly realize that you're.. free! Choose wisely, and accept responsibility for yourself :)
For me, writing down feelings, ups/downs, plus/minus helps me clear my mind. Always let several days pass before making a decision. When in doubt, start all over again from step 1.
My problem with you straight guys is that you latch yourselves onto the trans community to further your fetish. Get your own fucking movement and stop calling yourself trans. It's because of you perverts that people hate us and think we're all creepy fetishists jerking off in women's bathrooms (pretty sure some of you weirdos probably have done this before).
apparently the guy I'm sorta seeing apparently has a forced fem fetish. I'm afraid he might one day turn out to be trans. I'm straight and don't like girls at all. Is there any way I can indulge in his fetish without worsening it/encouraging his emasculation? I'm not idealistic enough to imagine I can "cure" him, but maybe if I can understand him better I can avoid turning him trans, which I'm genuinely scared of. at the same time I would like to do kinky and lewd stuff with him, but I don't know how to.
also he seems like a perfectly normal guy, how did this fetish arise in you guys/girls in this thread?
I look like Danny DeVito except a bigger version, and I frequently go to women's locker rooms and jerk off if anyone says mean things to me I just tell them I'm a proud transwoman and they can check their privilege ;^)
Ever since I discovered my AGP about 2 years ago when I turned 21 my life has been a living hell. I'm going to attempt to explain what i've been reading online about fetishes/sex though and maybe this will clear some things up for some. So, basically, anything can start out solely sexual and become an emotional attachment over time. When you're thinking of yourself as a woman in your fantasies for long periods of time and the reality is that your body is not at all what you fantasize about, you start to become so fixated on patching up the incongruence between your real body and the body you have in your fantasies. I've seen it myself. I went from "whatever" about 2 years ago to "Oh my God, I want her dress and I want to be her". I think this is what separates the "Cis" AGP from the transexual AGP, the "Cis" AGP will form no attachment to the idea of being a woman and it'll just be a simple fap fantasy. the transexual AGP will welcome these feelings and believe he/she was supposed to be a man/woman with increased feelings over time, so even though it may have started out only sexual, the fetish takes on a life of its own without its host even realizing before it's too late. Now, this wouldn't be a problem if being transexual didn't cause folks like me to be despaeate for hormones and surgery, which is why AGP sucks ass. TLDR: sex drive=powerful
I feel that feel too
For some dudes it really is just a fetish, although it's possible that what was once just a fetish becomes more than that. Really, I doubt you're going to change the progression of it, but if you try to make him feel bad about it and it's more than a fetish, he'll just become a jenner. if you're ok indulging it and he wants to do it with you, then why not? don't feel responsible for "ruining" him if you're worried about that. Maybe this indulgence will be enough for him to be satisfied.
>also he seems like a perfectly normal guy
Typical as fuck, I think. Outwardly, I've been able to be fairly normal for a long time, while probably actually being normal for some amount of that time. In retrospect, I could see some things that were probably abnormal from my childhood, and then sexual development, but mostly it just slowly and slowly increased over time. Actually, a few days ago I wrote a long description of what happened to me, if you want to read it (yeah r9k I know. in reality I'm an and have been an incredibly fucked up individual) it will probably still be archived for a while. Everything seems surreal in the past few days honestly; this thread, the other thread; I feel like so many people like me are coming out of the woodwork and it's been very emotional and...changing for me.
I wish I had a gf [who would indulge my fetishes]. For him to have told about his, he must feel very safe with you. I can't imagine doing the same. It would be far too embarrassing.
Autogynephilia - sexual (or possibly other) attraction to the idea of oneself as female
>the "Cis" AGP will form no attachment to the idea of being a woman and it'll just be a simple fap fantasy. the transexual AGP will welcome these feelings and believe he/she was supposed to be a man/woman with increased feelings over time, so even though it may have started out only sexual, the fetish takes on a life of its own without its host even realizing before it's too late.
oh sweet jesus this is terrifying and I'm afraid i'm the latter type...
honestly if you already know you are you might as well just start becoming a freak like me instead of waiting because it just gets worse and at least you might stand a better chance. honestly I think AGP is worse than trans
do you have any examples of people being this "Cis" AGP you talk about? I am very interested. and the whole development of an emotional attachment is well-documented in Anne Lawrence's stuff
>I want to be her
What's your biggest source of your AGP?
For me I think it's lactation. The idea of having swollen breasts filled with milk just seems so attractive to me. It doesn't necessarily have to be a pregnancy thing either, I think I'd like it more if it occurred outside of pregnancy.
Huh, this makes a lot of damn sense to me. I discovered my AGP in the form of the "Sissy" fetish not too long ago. It started during a really lonely patch in my life, I loved diapers and loved women's underwear, I then figured out that forced fem/sissy captions were a thing and that's where shit started to become an addiction, I couldn't get off without some sort of humiliation and I wanted to become a "cockhungry slut".
The more I seemed to "explore" the fetish, the more Igrew attached to it. Soon, I couldn't get off without full wardrobes of clothes on and I wanted to actually get fucked by guys in real life.
I then started to become aware that I was feeling really shitty about my male life. During the day I presented male, there was never anything wrong with it, but in my fantasies I was this girl, this very attractive girl that I could never actually be and it started to consume my thoughts every second of every day.
Like you, I think it is much too late for me and the fetish has already taken on a life of its own outside of just the sexual realm but I think emotional attachment is a very valid thing with AGP, no matter how ridiculous the fantasies begin for some.
I can't speak for others, but for me at least it's not about being attracted to oneself, but the idea that sex is better as a female. More erogenous zones, multiple orgasms, higher sensitivity, etc.
My AGP isn't entirely sexual though. I'm also jealous of other things, one of them the great variety women are allowed in fashion. As a man clothing choices, hairstyles, etc are just so much more limited and boring to me. I mean, if I want to pick a pair of bottoms, what are my options as a man? Jeans, slacks, and shorts, all of them more or less with the same cut, same colours, and made of the same fabrics. Meanwhile a woman has slacks, jeans, shorts, skirts, one-piece dresses, etc, each of them having many different cuts, colours, patterns, fabrics, etc to choose from.
Maybe some people would call me a transgendered person rather than an autogynephilliac, but I think the difference for me is that I don't believe I was born in the wrong body or that I was meant to be a woman or anything like that, more so that I just really want to be a woman. Maybe it's confusing to others, but to me there's a clear difference. (Not so say that transgendered people who claim they were born in the wrong body are delusional or wrong, if that's how they feel than whatever, it's just not how I feel about my situation.)
Yeah, I'm actively taking steps towards my transition right now but I'm trying to take it a little slower to see how far I really have to go in order to be at least somewhat content with my life.
I think Lawrence's observations were just spot on. As for those that could be called "Cis AGPs", you could just check fetlife, or even the sissy hypno pages on reddit, this is a more common emasculation fetish than we think and it seems as though only a small minority(like you and I) will develop obsessive feelings over the thought of being a woman.
This is why you see SO many crossdressers overtime that realize they're actually transexual. Most think it's harmless to indulge in a fetish like this but it isn't. Sexual fantasies can be lethal and in the case of AGP, it could quite possibly lead to medications in hormones, SRS, etc.
I'm not at the point where I'm dissociated with my penis, YET, or even at the point of wanting hormones, but I fucking hate that I can't dress in girl clothes 24/7, I want to do it SO badly that it kills me.
I believe that many folks can't believe the lengths people would go to in fulfilling "just a fetish" but with Anne's theory, it really makes sense to me now , how it begins and how it ends.
Also, yes, "I want to be her" fucking destroys my soul.
I once read a whole page with guys posting about how much they loved women to kick them in the nuts. Tons of the guys were talking about how badly they needed to have their testicles removed to finally be happy with their lives.
I think it's sad how far a fetish can go.
I'm not really sure if I'm in the same boat. On one hand, I got really into feminization, gender bender, etc porn shortly after I discovered masturbation and it quickly became the only thing I fapped to.
However, I can also recall moments where I wanted to be a girl or be more like a girl long before I ever discovered masturbation. I can recall seeing a commercial for corsets on television at age 12 or so and being very interested and somewhat aroused at the thought of wearing one. I can recall wearing my mother's makeup, playing dress up with my sister, etc.
I'm really confused as to weather I have AGP or whether I'm trans, how bad my gender dysphoria is, if I should aim to transition, if my gender dysphoria is just caused by a fetish gone to far or if it's a problem I've had since birth, etc. It's tearing me apart.
I really hope I won't alter the course of his fetish either. after he told me about it I read up a lot online, and it seems like a lot of people experience escalation in the severity of the fetish. so many people saying they went from fapping to traps to sissification to forced fem to finally going on hormones and transitioning, I'm afraid that the fetish is more than just a fetish. plus, he also mentioned that he wanted to be a trap when he was younger because he wanted boobs, which also makes me wonder.
I read your post on /r9k/ (haha it's not that fucked up. I visit /r9k/ too even though half the threads are about how much fembots suck), sorry that you've had to go through so much torment because of this. are you still on hormones now? do you think you'll ever "get over" this fetish?
also re: asian fetish. that was mildly amusing, maybe there's a link between AGP and yellow fever. I say this with a sample size of two since the guy I'm seeing also has yellow fever apparently (probably why he's with me :/)
I still have no idea how to fulfill his fantasies without further encouraging any trans leanings he might have. he said he wants to try pegging, should I go for that? what if he decides he likes dicks? oh god what if I turn him into a straight trans girl who likes guys, what do I do?
I've been there. I don't mean to scare you, but many times AGP and transexuality ARE related. Since you say that you've been fapping to whatever feminization fantasies you had since childhood, you've likely formed some sort of bond with it that transcends sexual desire.
I don't know how far you think you have to go to become happy right now, or if it's reassurance that you're not transexual. I can tell you though that if you were at this moment identifying as transexual, you wouldn't be scared. Instead ,you'd likely be looking for every shred of information out there that would validate your transgender identity.
I hate to sound like a psych, because I'm not one at all, but I believe that there is very little information out there on how sexual desire can always become something more than just that.
I wouldn't worry about "turning" him into anything, If he does end up with AGP, becomes gay, wants to transistion, whatever, don't think that you caused it. You may be able to influence him but ultimately he is his own person and he can decide his own fate. Honestly I'd suggest just talking to him about it. State your worries, ask why he feels the way he does, etc. I really don't think you have much of anyway to influence him into being trans or not trans or whatever, the best thing you can do is just to learn about him. Maybe he'll transition into a girl and leave you, it's unfortunate for you but he deserves to run his own life. Maybe his feminization fetish really is just a fetish and nothing more and he stays male. I know this probably sounds sappy and like some sort of non-answer but I do think it's the best option. I would urge him to see a therapist or something, though.
Is it common for AGP to destroy one's motivation? I'm in uni and I have some internal exams + essays go write due in a week but I've spent all of my Christmas break browsing 4chan (especially lgbt), thinking about becoming a girl and playing video games.
Will transitioning cure this or am I just lazy and addicted to vidya?
Honestly I feel like I have 3 or so personalities trapped in one body. Not in some stupid tumblr headmates shit, but in that I have a major internal conflict. On one hand I want to be a girl or at least be feminine purely because of the sexual and fetishistic aspect of it. On the other hand I want to be a girl because I do think I'd be more comfortable and happy acting feminine, having breasts, wearing female clothes, etc, without the sexual part. On the other other hand there's also a part of me that likes being male, wants to have a wife and kids, wants to be just an average guy without this gender dysphoria baggage, etc.
>your fears would likely be "what will my family think?", etc, not exactly fearing that you're transexual, you'd already know.
That's kind of a complex question. I've come to accept that I have gender dysphoria and that I may be a transexual, and I'm not worried about my family knowing that. They're all pretty socially liberal and I don't think they mind. I already came out to my mom and asked to see a therapist.
What I worry about is what if this really is all just a fetish and not some deep-rooted problem I've had since birth? What if my family finds out about my fetish thinks I just want to become some dumb slut and not a normal girl? I don't even like men romantically or sexually, I just like dicks.
>I really hope I won't alter the course of his fetish either. after he told me about it I read up a lot online, and it seems like a lot of people experience escalation in the severity of the fetish. so many people saying they went from fapping to traps to sissification to forced fem to finally going on hormones and transitioning, I'm afraid that the fetish is more than just a fetish. plus, he also mentioned that he wanted to be a trap when he was younger because he wanted boobs, which also makes me wonder.
That... Doesn't sound good for him not actually ending up transitioning... Also, I doubt that you really will have a significant effect on what the outcome will be. I tried resisting for a long time but it would always get back to me. I actually remember having a forced fem phase. I would jerk off to traps and it made me feel really dirty and ashamed and I think the forced part might have relieved that a bit. I'd also make myself finish to regular girls to make myself feel less bad. I wonder if I would have or would cope better if I had a gf who would indulge me. I think I would honestly, so that might be a good sign.
>I read your post on /r9k/ (haha it's not that fucked up. I visit /r9k/ too even though half the threads are about how much fembots suck), sorry that you've had to go through so much torment because of this. are you still on hormones now? do you think you'll ever "get over" this fetish?
I am and I don't. My desire to be a girl has only trended higher over time. I hate it, but I've realized most of my fears are external. If I were told I'd never physically see another human again I don't think I would have any qualms about transitioning.
To the people unsure about being trans or not, maybe you should use hormones for some time and see if it feels right, it would be good if some trans person that fits the agp model could comment on this.
You should talk and ask him to be honest about his feelings, maybe is just a fetish or maybe is more and he tries to hide it but eventually (maybe in years) he will tell you that he is trans, better deal with it now.
As for me I think that I will start to use hormones for a while to see how I feel, I posted my story in the other thread but I'll add some more stuff (even the cringey parts) to see if other anons feel identified with it.
The first time (or times) that I experienced agp was at 5 (or earlier, I just remember that it was in my kinder garden years), I would go and hide under a table naked and pretend I became alice from alice in wonderland (also I would pretend that I teleported to that universe) and then I would get punished from escaping that world, all that while rubbing my penis to the table support.
Its so weird because I have those elaborated sexual fantasies since that age then they went away until I was like 12 and started to crossdress, at that age and all my puberty I developed a lot of kinks that eventually fade away. Nowadays (I'm 21) this isn't all sexual anymore, sometimes when I'm on the street and I see a pretty girl I feel a lot of jealousy towards her or when I see a picture of a lesbian couple (I remember watching some chessy video montages of some lesbian tv series when I was a teenager so that is also a somewhat old feeling).
About one or two years ago I realized that most women that I thought I found attractive were more like the kind of woman I would like to be, those that are more of the quirky, skinny kind and the ones that I find attractive tend to be more outgoing and curvaceous (high test bruh) kind.
>also re: asian fetish. that was mildly amusing, maybe there's a link between AGP and yellow fever. I say this with a sample size of two since the guy I'm seeing also has yellow fever apparently (probably why he's with me :/)
Haha maybe. I felt really ashamed about this for a long time too. Eventually I decided that whatever controls my attraction likely rates higher features that appear more frequently on Asians. Although most of the girls who have ever shown interest in me have been Asian so maybe there is some kind of feedback loop too. I wouldn't worry too much because most likely it just made him more likely to notice you. If you want creepy, my ultimate agp fantasy would be me as a tall Asian girl, although maybe it just makes sense that I'd want to be what attracts me most.
>I still have no idea how to fulfill his fantasies without further encouraging any trans leanings he might have. he said he wants to try pegging, should I go for that? what if he decides he likes dicks? oh god what if I turn him into a straight trans girl who likes guys, what do I do?
Oh god do it. I'm really jealous. If you turn him into a straight tranny then I guess you don't have to worry about not wanting to be with him then, huh? I think if I had a girl willing to indulge me I wouldn't have ended up like this, or at least it would have staved it off...
According to a 4channer/Redditor's theiry, AGP isn't actually the love of oneself as a woman, but it's actually the result of emasculation anxiety. The fear of being associated with anything female was turned into arousal, which does make a ton of sense.
I think you could see a therapist if you do feel like you have had unresolved traumatic experiences in your life but ultimately the imprinted fetish is always going to be there to some degree. There doesn't really have to be anything feminine about you to be AGP. Examples of this are pretty much all over the internet. Although, I do think that AGP is more likely to effect shy, sensitive natured boys like myself.
Also, part of the fetish in the beginning IS about becoming a dumb slut, but after your sex drive becomes less ridiculous, you might find that you'd like to start dressing in more "normal" female attire. That's how it seems to go for a lot of people.
I guess what I'm confused by is this. Is the viewing of feminization, gender-bender, sissy, trap, whatever porn a symptom of my gender dysphoria, or is my gender dysphoria a symptom of the fetish? I feel like it can go either way and it definitely confuses and worries me. Obviously I have memories of acting feminine or wanting to be a girl before I ever found the fetish, but maybe my memory isn't completely accurate. Maybe my mind is exaggerating memories in an attempt to justify this or something. Or, maybe I was born in the wrong gender and the development of my feminization fetish was just a symptom of that or some sort of coping mechanism.
I think I'm also worried that if I somehow ever get an answer and that it turns out this whole thing is just a fetish, that it kind of invalidates my dysphoria a bit. I worry that my family wouldn't see me as their poor child with a disorder, just as some perverted freak.
Oh, okay, so you want to see how much of your dysphoria is linked to sexual longings and how much is linked to emotional attachment?
That's pretty simple. Get on an anti-androgen for a little while and you'll more or less know how much you want to do in order to feel at peace with yourself.
Reminder that the single single medical professional who coined this term, "autogynephilia," believes it applies to all transwomen.
The idea that "autogynephiles" exist in contrast to "true" transwomen is an /lgbt/ meme, built around the assumption that if you can't look enough like a ciswoman, you aren't really female.
I actually can 100% relate to this. After spending some time on here and just thinking to myself I still don't know whether I'm jerking off because of gender dysphoria, or if my gender dysphoria came from jerking off.
wxhluyp comes to 4chan?
Sorry if the story is disjointed (and for the bad english), I'm trying to remember all I can.
Part 2 (almost quints)
I get mood swings, the strongest ones tend to be for periods that been getting stronger in these recent years although sometimes I get them by things that "trigger" me (like the jelaousy I mentioned in the last post), my biggest doubts about transitioning or not comes from this as >>5455522 says I feel like a have more than one personality (feels but I don't think that's really the case) when in some moments I would want to be all masculine and other times it would be the opposite, my theory is that my mind associates the more aesthetical fitting body for each "mood" that I'm on which is really bad because I can't have stability in my life so now I will try to archieve something more androgynous.
I like older or dominant women (or older and dominant), ideally I would love a trans gf, when I was younger I liked to fap to all the humiliation and sissy stuff but now its really not appealing to me anymore, maybe because I don't see it as taboo as I used too. Now I'm more into vanilla sex and cuddling, as for my attraction to men, I do find some attractive but I'm not sure If I always have or I learned (if that's possible) to like them.
I'll try to remember more stuff, if someone wants to ask something you can c:
yeah, I guess I should talk to him about it. afterall everyone is different, but it's been helpful talking to y'all. it's just such a foreign fetish to me and I can't say I understand the appeal at all, so I'm reading up a lot and asking questions online hoping to gain some insights. I don't know if bringing up seeing a therapist is a good idea though... don't want to make him defensive
do you think positive female attention might've helped you cope with your dysphoria (? I hope I'm using the term correctly)/ gender issues? or would it just be putting off the inevitable. I know on some level that if he's actually a "woman in a man's body" there's very little I can do. but this sounds really selfish but I really dread losing him. it's like watching someone you love die except he's not dead he'll just... slowly be taken over by a she. I know I should want what's best for him but imagining him transitioning just makes me so terrified. plus I'm blinded enough by love to hope that maybe I can help him be happy and comfortable enough with his masculinity, even though chances are if he's actually trans nothing I can do will ever be enough. my theory is that a lot of AGP-ers just don't think they're manly enough (by society's ridiculous standards), and unlike with little girls who are constantly bombarded with messages about how they're beautiful and barbie is unrealistic and girls can be whatever they want to be, little boys just have to deal with it on their own, which leads to feelings of emasculation that then leads to AGP. pure speculation, based on what little research I've done. so maybe if I can undo the years of damage done to his male ego in his formative years...
yeah, I'll talk to him. definitely better now than years later.
>About one or two years ago I realized that most women that I thought I found attractive were more like the kind of woman I would like to be, those that are more of the quirky, skinny kind and the ones that I find attractive tend to be more outgoing and curvaceous (high test bruh) kind.
was the high test part a joke? seems strange to be AGP and high test at the same time...
I've found that a lot of introverted guys tend to have a thing for asians. also seems to be a thing for guys in STEM. not sure why though. maybe we're less intimidating than girls of other races. or it could be a feedback loop thing. I find myself attracted to the quiet dorky type rather than the "alpha" muscular type.
>I think if I had a girl willing to indulge me I wouldn't have ended up like this, or at least it would have staved it off...
aww, I feel so bad for you anon. I hope you'll find happiness as a qt girl, or whatever it is you want. and I really hope what you said is true about having a girl help cope with the fetish
I mean I like curvaceous women but I don't want to have high test or look very masculine...
Do you have the desire to be the feminine one in bed? Does the thought of you being a girl ignite something within you? When you see a beautiful girl, do you think; I wanna be her, or, I wanna have her?
>Do you have the desire to be the feminine one in bed?
I'm vers, but I mostly want to fuck other people with cocks, whether as a top or bottom. I guess I would say I lean toward bottom though.
>Does the thought of you being a girl ignite something within you?
If you mean a real girl, no not really. Transgirl, maybe. I can't really relate to the desire of wanting to have my dick inverted.
>When you see a beautiful girl, do you think; I wanna be her, or, I wanna have her?
I find the thought of sex with ciswomen as a guy pretty gross. I could maybe have sex with a woman if she was a strong top and it didn't require me to piv much.
Again though, transwomen are more attractive to me, in part because I know theyre genetically male and most have androgynous features.
Being a transgirl is sort of like femboy+ and you can stay that way longer than you can without hormones. I find that kind of hot. I like being andro and I like other andro male people.
AGP theory doesn't cover the broad niches of AGP fantasies though. Are cis women attracted to men's looks? Yes, unless they're Lesbian. AGP's are attracted to the dick, insofar as it validates their womanhood. Do Cis wome n fap to sissy fantasies? Nope, never. Did you know that Sissy fantasies are also apart of AGP? Autogynephilia is the male interpretation of the female sexuality, denying this is pretty naive on that Moser guys part.
Cis women can be attracted to men's looks, they can also be attracted to being tied up and other things, my point was that what's often called AGP when referring to the male fetish is something that women also have as part of their sexuality. The projection of oneself as female in the fantasy, the feeling of wanting to be desired and used is the same in both cases.
Also keep in mind that a lot of AGP fetishists aren't just into that fetish alone, just like cis women they can also at the same time be attracted to males and dick and have other fantasies that are common in women.
Males and sometimes FTMs experience the same thing but with autoandrophilia. The projection of oneself into a fantasy scenario in your head is something that all humans do when engaging in sex and it's no different for MTFs.
I like the D but not the rest of the male body.
Well, with exceptions. But in any case I seem most primarily hetero.
My personal hypothesis is that my AGP comes from a genuine admiration of women. I don't see them as purely external sex objects, I really sympathize with them, empathize with them, want to be with and like them.
And having seen them the way they're portrayed in porn might in turn explain the love for the D and the love for dressing and behaving that way.
I also avoid most HC porn, I only watch the kind where the woman seems to be enjoying it genuinely. So that would make an additional reason to envy her position and become curious about how it feels to be in her position.
I guess thats about right. I don't want to be a woman in the sense that most transwomen seem to mean and I would consider myself more androphilic (relative to biological gender) than not.
>My personal hypothesis is that my AGP comes from a genuine admiration of women. I don't see them as purely external sex objects, I really sympathize with them, empathize with them, want to be with and like them.
Reminds me of this.
I don't consider myself AGP because I'm not turned on by the ideation of my own body.
I've never been sexually attracted to either guys or girls in a physical sense. I've always in different ways been sexually stimulated by the idea of being dominated, and when in a sexual context (total virgin though), always as a girl. I'm attracted to male genitals to some degree but not to female genitals.
Where I find my fucked up sexuality somewhat meaningful is that I always thought I was aesthetically attracted to girls, and I am, but part of this was always in a "I would totally love to look like her" way. The other side is that imagining my male self in a relationship with either gender feels repulsive, not because of them but because of me being male, I simply don't identify with that role. When I see a straight couple my age I get this weird feeling of yearning towards the girl.
If I'm a tranny, then most of my dysphoria comes from my total discomfort with intimacy, more than everyday dissatisfaction with my social role and body (though I still experience discomfort in those areas). honestly I can't figure out what is legit dysphoria and what is just general awkwardness due to emotional abuse in childhood. Need to see a therapist soon for that.
Is it worth transitioning if not doing so means being forever alone or forever unsatisfied with intimate relationships?
It fucking sucks, that all of the guys my age, the guys I graduated with and all of my childhood friends are living "macho" lives (Bodybuilding, car tuning, raves etc). I've lost friends and I've heard some of them laugh at me because of my interests and opinions. While they're in the gym deadlifting, I'm at home wishing I was a tall, skinny, slim girl instead of a broad shouldered male..
In my personal experience, I was a lazy piece of shit that spent all of my time on 4chan and playing vidya rather than focusing on work and education before starting transitioning, and am still a lazy piece of shit that spends all of my time on 4chan and playing vidya rather than focusing on work and education now that I am transitioning. While being depressed or distracted by the distress you feel might be contributing a bit, chances are that transitioning isn't going to solve that specific problem for you.
> To the people unsure about being trans or not, maybe you should use hormones for some time and see if it feels right, it would be good if some trans person that fits the agp model could comment on this.
Actually trying hormones for a month or so to see how you actually feel on them is a good idea, in my opinion; there are almost no permanent effects from such a short trial period, and there's really no way to know whether you will feel better or worse on them without actually trying them. I regret all the years I waited to try them because I was afraid of even trying (although I'm biased because in my case I did end up feeling really good on HRT; perhaps someone with a negative response would feel differently).
A non-zero fraction of regular transwomen are at least somewhat okay with their penises and are exclusively into other people with penises; I don't see why you couldn't feel like you want to a woman with a penis and just be attracted to other people with penises. I don't think a normal gay crossdresser without some degree of autogynephilia would necessarily feel like they wanted to be a woman, though.
>I don't see why you couldn't feel like you want to a woman with a penis and just be attracted to other people with penises.
Thats the thing though, I don't see transwomen as women, not really. So as far as I'm concerned its basically gay because we're just feminine males.
> I don't think a normal gay crossdresser without some degree of autogynephilia would necessarily feel like they wanted to be a woman, though.
I think theres something thats called pseudo-autogynephilia that kind of describes me though. It has more to do with the attraction to ,and imagining oneself as a feminized male but without being an actual woman.
The thing is though, I'm not really distressed by any of this, which seems to be counter to what most people who believe they have agp report. I have trouble functioning for a lot of reasons but overwhelming sexual perversion ruling my life is not one of them.
:\ I really can't say that I felt much different after a month. or even two for that matter. although I can't stop taking them so...
same. still lazy.
I'm glad too. It's really nice.
>do you think positive female attention might've helped you cope with your dysphoria (? I hope I'm using the term correctly)/ gender issues? or would it just be putting off the inevitable.
I think it would help for a while at least. maybe putting it off, I don't know. But I know that there was a short time in my life where I had some intimacy and it was really great and I was actually happy for some time in my life. but then eventually she would enjoy sex much more than me and it's not like I wasn't attracted to her, it's just that I would want her to take control more and to be her, really. Although i have problems with intimacy in general and get scared as soon as anything "serious" gets mentioned, so maybe it has nothing to do with it.
>my theory is that a lot of AGP-ers just don't think they're manly enough (by society's ridiculous standards), and unlike with little girls who are constantly bombarded with messages about how they're beautiful and barbie is unrealistic and girls can be whatever they want to be, little boys just have to deal with it on their own, which leads to feelings of emasculation that then leads to AGP. pure speculation, based on what little research I've done.
I mean..I agree that boys aren't really told they're good as humans and not tools like girls are...there was definitely some time where I tried lifting weights and getting bigger but that was mostly in an effort to become more attractive to girls. As I started accepting myself more I lost that desire so I'm not sure if it's related, at least consciously.
Honestly I can see indulging him as win-win - either it has no effect on him, in which case it doesn't matter, it alleviates it, in which case he can be more normal, or it intensifies it, in which case he gets to transition earlier before he gets to be a disgusting freak like me.
>I've found that a lot of introverted guys tend to have a thing for asians. also seems to be a thing for guys in STEM.
yeah, I'm in STEM too. typical AGPer. although my program is like 80% asians so it might just be proximity for most
>aww, I feel so bad for you anon. I hope you'll find happiness as a qt girl, or whatever it is you want.
thanks...it does help a little. I'm just too tall to be qt though which sucks and means I will at best ever be able to attract some tumblr bulldyke....
>'x' on a spectrum will never develop further feelings while performing his fetish b/c
Man, theories are fucking hogwash and brainnumb. Clearly if you fetishize something and perform it with repetition it is 99% likely to progress as a fetish... logically speaking the 'cis' will naturally become less 'cis' until they reach 'non-cis'
This is why i have all of this labelling within LGBT its like you people believe its a science remarked by particular bracketed denominations. Clearly if you people are truly on a bracket, that the brain is not necessarily different between any two human beings, that desire for any human for any other human is possible then what the fuck do you think is the point of all this demarcation?
Spot on. There is no gender spectrum at all. If you indulge yourself enough into a fetish, it'll eventually become part of your identity. I know that was true in my case, funnily enough, I knew how the fetish was going to end the whole time, I just couldnt stop myself.
>there are only manly men and feminine women
if gender is mostly socially constructed stereotypes, how can there not be people who are inbetween? nobody is completely one or the other. that sounds like a spectrum to me.
I am attracted to femininity.
I actually dont mind dick as long as its on a mtf who is passable. I mean when i jerk it i like to picture myself as a girl getting face fucked. I sometimes even dress up and its perfect cause i have the body for it. Genitalia is irrelevant to me.
>gender is a social construct
this is the biggest meme of the LGBT community
clearly it isn't a social construct in the way most people would consider voting a social construct, it is a self-identification and a 'carding' procedure by which people assess what your role is according to your 'x' (re; class status:single, gender)
Disgusting killing machines, brainwashed and cold assholes, arrogant and ignorant idiots, all conforming to a prescribed, highly constrained human identity.
Kind, inoffensive people living in comfort and freedom, experimenting with various forms of self-expression, not being limited by constrained prescriptions of human identity.
It's really nice to know that we've come so far in such a short period of time.
keep in mind that unless this was some kind of randomized survey, it's probably biased toward those who think about that shit a lot, namely those who eventually decided they were trans
>I transitioned because of my fetish but I still identify as male
I wish transwomen would stop pushing this stupid "we're totally fully normal women in absolutely every way and if you have anything to say against that you're a transphobic transmisogynist shitlord" thing.
Using the phrase "pregnant woman" means you're a transmisogynist now.
Idk what I'm supposed to do
>hard agp and massive jealousy of girls I see
>very recently look at shit I write down and do and basically think if it were someone else I'd say they're probably trans
But I'm real hon-material
>1.2 shoulder hip ratio
>Andreja pejic skull except uglier and more masculine, mostly masculine personality
>hold """"""anti-trans"""""" beliefs like >>5460559
I mean, I've been on hormones and it's not like I dislike them, it's just that I feel like I need to get realistic. Like is my life not just going to get shittier if I keep going? I couldn't bear being a hon and being in a situation where I'm making people awkwardly pretend I look at all like a woman. And then knowing that this is the best it'll get and basically be reminded of how far from my ideation I'd be.
And I think maybe I'm just some lonely omega dork who has imagined some problem that doesn't exist and who just needs to talk to people more and get a gf to snap out of it all.
>I wish transwomen would stop pushing this stupid "we're totally fully normal women in absolutely every way and if you have anything to say against that you're a transphobic transmisogynist shitlord" thing.
I think just straight up saying we're men is going a bit too far in the other direction
>maybe I'm just some lonely omega dork who has imagined some problem that doesn't exist and who just needs to talk to people more and get a gf to snap out of it all
You could find a friendly woman who doesn't mind you acting more feminine or however you want to act and feel in life, as well as liking your body for what it is.
I mean find some middle-ground maybe.
>I think just straight up saying we're men is going a bit too far in the other direction
It didn't sound like I was condoning that, did it? In any case I didn't mean to imply such a thing.
It's funny how something that has been shouted down on /lgbt/ for so long has such a large community. It's like going to a secret gay bar in Saudi Arabia and noticing half the government is there.
Because doctors know they can sell you any amount of pills if they label you with one.
What the fuck does wearing dresses and make up and acting stereotypically feminine have to do with attraction to male bodies?
Indeed, a while back in a "feminist" IRC channel, I accidentally triggered (literally) some transsexual woman by referring to AGP. It went on like this: someone lamented there were no good trans communities. I said, half-jokingly, maybe there's so many people with AGP that any trans community becomes shitty thanks to them. This person started to break down, in the channel and through PM, and all my efforts to comfort her and assure her that she has nothing to do with AGP were futile. Ultimately I was banned. I tried to talk to the mods, and pointed out that *I* actually had AGP (not identifying as trans or anything), so ironically "I was being erased out" and all that jazz, but nope, having implied that there is such a thing as AGP had settled the topic.
Nobody even said to me "hey, the term AGP is connected with transphobia, you can instead just say 'cross-dressing fetishist' or something"; I had to figure that part out myself if I remember correctly. (Maybe it was implied to me, but nobody really cared about *educating* me on the mistake I had done, it was just a persecution.)
So yeah, that's how shitty some (third-wave) "feminist" communities are today.
Still sympathies to that transwoman because she seemed to genuinely have a meltdown, and I guess one could say that justifies what they did? I mean maybe I was going to trigger someone else the next day by using another trigger word or something. Blergh.
P.S. I'm the white cis het radfem guy.
Uh, so you admit it's an unjustified diagnosis?
>How is something a disorder if it causes no disadvantages to an organism or the organism's population?
Dysphoria causes pretty severe disadvantages in mental health and normal functioning. It's not like being gay where any complications that arrive come entirely from prejudiced societies. GID/Gender dysphoria is intrinsically a problem for the sufferer
AGP is transphobia because it is used by /pol/ as the reason why all transwomen transition. Dysphoria doesn't exist according to them it's all sissy fetish freaks. It's a strawman basically because it's easier to attack a sex fetish than a medical condition.
It exists it should just not be considered a disorder. Gender Identity Complex?
>AGP causes no disadvantages to an organism
AGP is not just a cross dressing fetish. There is no other term that more accurately describes the phenomenon. It is actually transphobic to force AGPers into an identity you prefer.
That doesn't really have anything to do with AGP though. Pol will take any word they find, and given how often AGP is used and misused on here, it's not surprising it became a meme. I also disagree that it's pol and not lgbt doing what you describe, primarily.
That's just dumb. There is literally nothing wrong with having a disorder, mental illness, etc. You're playing into the stagmatization of the mentally ill by demanding a euphemism be used implying that it is wrong to have a disorder.
Not to me senpai desu.
>AGP is not just a cross dressing fetish. There is no other term that more accurately describes the phenomenon.
Can you please tell me what exactly AGP is then?
I just get all excited when I think of myself wearing a frilly dress/skirt, a little make-up, acting all "girly" (stereotypically) and coquettish, wiggling my hips as I walk, and so on. Sometimes the thought of wearing high-heels is arousing too.
BTW this has gotten much less frequent after I indulged in it a bit. (And I didn't even need to indulge as far as *actually* cross-dressing. I just fantasized of it a lot and tried out some very minor things like sitting and walking a bit different...)
>Not to me senpai desu
Well, good for you then. Not all of us are so lucky.
>I just get all excited when I think of myself wearing a frilly dress/skirt, a little make-up, acting all "girly" (stereotypically) and coquettish, wiggling my hips as I walk, and so on. Sometimes the thought of wearing high-heels is arousing too.
This sounds pretty accurately like transvestic fetishism and some behavioral AGP, which can be included in the umbrella of AGP. While I think most people here will equate AGP with bodily AGP, it can cover several different areas, including the idea of dressing as a woman, acting like a woman, having female body parts (some or all) or having female bodily functions. Sometimes AGP can develop into a more persistent feminine identity, sometimes AGP can facilitate repression or serve as a release valve for current transgender feelings, but sometimes AGP ends there and does not develop into or represent a broader feminine identity.
didn't notice this at first
>BTW this has gotten much less frequent after I indulged in it a bit.
I would argue that this is why it really isn't so bad for you. For many of us, indulging in it or not has not succeeded in lessening the severity. Has indulging accelerated it? Decelerated it? Had no effect? It's difficult to ever know, I think. But the reality for me and many other people is that it continues to get stronger and that it's very distressing. I would guess that people who find their way to /agpg/ on 4chan are more likely to have a more severe case.
Telling us that our problem doesn't exist just makes us feel shittier and makes it difficult to talk to other people who feel similar, so that's one reason why this thread and have been so helpful to me - because we've managed to have a long conversation without being beaten down
I'm not attracted to women at all. I am attracted to the female form and wish to have one (except for between the legs. I want to keep my male junk) but I have absolutely no desire to have sex with a woman. I'm a gay man who happens to have AGP
Are you me? I think I have a fetish for the female body, but I'm not at all attracted to vaginas. You couldn't even get me to go that way for a good looking ftm.
I'm not into women, but I have fooled around with a few transwomen and enjoyed it a lot. They also made me realize how intensely jealous of them I was. I do genuinely think regular men are hot, and I fantasize about a wide variety of guys. But I often find myself coming back to this fantasy of being a feminized version of myself.
I was really repressed when I was younger and fapped to a lot of futa, rationalizing that I was still straight because at least it had something resembling a woman in it. But porn with real women did nothing for me. By the time I finally accepted my sexuality I had already created a pattern of attraction involving feminine bodies with male genitals. So I think thats partly where this comes from.
like I wonder if it has only intensified for me in the past couple years because I only started to become really aware of just how much my face has changed since I was a bit younger. Could I have managed so long because I just didn't see myself as excessively masculine or old mannish? Could it have anything to do with depersonalization (because I've had that for a while..)?
Here's a new template with room for a little more.
OK I see, that's interesting.
Not to sound like I'm doubting it once again, rather I'm genuinely curious; what would be the key differences between this persistent an distressing AGP, and body dysmorphia / transgenderism?
:/ I'm figuring I'm just going to keep at it I guess. I don't care about becoming sterile so basically I'll just have to get FFS or gyno surgery depending on whether it works out or not. Are there really any downsides? Although shouldn't I already know if I don't like having boobs based on the growth of a few months?
You should know, yes. How do you deal with the entire 'wanting to be fully femme' anon? It's killing me. I have long legs, but that's all. Rest of my body is shaped like a running back's minus the muscle. My jaw is strong and my body hair grows like shit, but I'm bald on top because alopecia. So basically I'd be a hon with a wig on. This is one of the major possible downsides, anon.
By not looking in the mirror and taking hormones I guess..
Really I have no intention of trying to socially transition unless I start getting called a woman in public without trying. Which is really unlikely. But I guess I will just keep making short term evaluations, and at this point I don't really want to stop, although I have a voice in the back of my mind that I need to and it's not going to work out.
The whole MPB kind of cemented it for me. It wasn't that bad in my case but I recognized it was happening because I hadn't looked at myself very much. That was kind of the point where I realized if I wanted even a minuscule chance it had to be soon.
They can also do very good hair transplants with or without FFS. You could at least take finasteride to not get anymore bald in any case.
I guess if your skeleton is linebacker tier it might be troublesome. Mine is bad but maybe not that bad plus I'm too tall.
Yet this illness doesn't really give a shit about that so that's the problem. If it were that simple I'd have just gotten over it already.
Are you sure it's the skeleton that's big and not muscle?
I'm not sure. As time goes on I'm more amenable to the idea that they're different facets of the same thing, but that may just be my own fetish twisting my thoughts in order for it to gain a stronger hold.
When I talk about AGP here, I mostly will exclude transvestic fetishism because I think it really shouldn't be included as a type of AGP. I think transvestic fetishists tend to have their male and female identities more compartmentalized - they more often develop alternate personas in their fantasies, whereas AGP tends to co-opt a singular main persona.
One big difference I can think of is that many transgender people (say mtf) will go to extreme lengths to argue and insist that they are and always were female and are just as much women as cis women. Whereas I think this characteristic is far less common in people with persistent AGP. Both desire to be "real" women, but one group insists they are already while the other doesn't. Although honestly I think it may have to do with differences in education and intelligence, given that these feelings can occur in people with all sorts of backgrounds.
Another difference is that I think AGP tends to center less on social aspects than does transgenderism, and I think this is on reason why AGPers manage to live traditionally as men for very long times. Most people I've read on here who self-identify as AGP desperately don't want to be hons, and will resort to, say, never planning on socially transitioning unless it just happens. In contrast, read some of the related subreddits - you will see many people socially transitioning fully before passing, or before even taking hormones.
One possible argument for the "two sides of the same coin" hypothesis could be that AGPers tend to be far more self-conscious and self-critical. This results in harder repression, which is lessened during arousal, where inhibitions are lowered. Additionally, it would explain the frequency of AGPers remaining in and fitting into the male role for a long time, and also the requirement of passing before ever considering transition. Notice that just in this thread, you can see many instances of
>I want to be a girl so bad....but
>[I'm too tall/my shoulders are too wide/my face is too masculine/I'm balding]
Similarly, in Anne Lawrence's writing, there are many noted instances of transwomen admitting to lying about having had sexual arousal, either to avoid stigma or to ensure that they can get hormones. You can also see a ton of hate toward simply the term autogynephilia. It evokes such hatred in many people that they will insist it doesn't exist at all, that all cis women experience this exact kind of arousal, or that they will shut down communities that wish to discuss it because it's categorically "wrong" (see the controversy over at /r/autogynephilia and /r/crossdreaming, which is now the PC term for it). I think this is rationalization that "I'm not one of _them," based on a fear of being labeled a "fetishist," which is incorrectly given negative moral value.
Additionally, both Blanchard and Lawrence consider transition one valid solution for AGPers.
But perhaps instead they are actually two different phenomena. The idea that fetishism or AGP is different than transgenderism could be supported by instances of detransitioners and people who have AGP but no desire to transition. http://www.ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html#Renee has some examples of detransitioners, and http://thirdwaytrans.com/ has a sort of alternative view on the whole thing.
I'm sure my reasoning is affected by my AGP, though, so I can't say this is unbiased fact.
Hey im agp and i thought id clarify what agp is, atleast imo.
We dont neccesarly transition, agp is like your brain inverting attraction. Your brain wishes for a dream partner so bad that it perfects his image up to a point that he is unachievable irl. Then, the brain decides that to experience that partner it should be that partner. Ex. I want to fuck my dream girl, so transitioning and being fucked as hard as i would fuck her makes complete sense to me and makes me turned on.
The acknowledgement of this inversion is usually not concious, it took me a long time to figure it out. Of i dodnt have prior background in meditation and some amateur psychology id probably continue believing i want to be a girl.
What is a major distinguishing factor is that agp people get turned on by the thought of becoming a woman. I took enormous pleasure in just imagining my boobs and face and how much men would appreciate me. It was 100% sexual, whereas a trans person would also want to be socially recognized as a woman.
Im a dominant male in hetero relationships and i like to get really dominant in bed, so as my female self i wanted to be submissive, obedient and overall a human sex toy.
Not him, but I embraced it. Fuck it, life's too short.
Son of a...
Autoandrophile from before here. I watched porn last night for the first time in 2 weeks. I didnt imagine I was a man this time, which is very rare. Coincidence? Have any AGPs here had any luck with stuff like nofap in reducing their fetish??
> Sexologists like Blanchard think it means ‘knowledge first – consequences second…it doesn’t matter if we discover something that’s not to the liking of a particular community, it’s our job as researchers to discover the truth.’ I do not agree with that.
>Imagine the following scenario: a researcher discovers that one ethnic group has a lower IQ than another and that the cause is genetic – not educational. In my opinion that research is as dangerous as a toxic virus and I’d wipe any hard drive that contained such research.
What the fuck this guy is insane
Seriously this is worst than being "truetrans", I want to transition but other times I like being a guy, then is all the fetish thing, how do you even explain this sort of stuff? I feel like there's no way for people with agp to function correctly with other people
I tried my best and all I got was verbal abuse, a couple uppercuts, a few lost friends and a shit ton of slack from my family. I'll admit that I may have been slightly obnoxious and too much when I told my friends (manic episodes) but in no way did I deserve all of that. Now, I am 24 and I've given up.
A few things I said;
> I'd rather be a woman than lead a miserable life forever.
> I don't know what's going on with me, it's like my gender identity switches from male to female.
> I wish I could get into cosmetology, but I'm a man, so the market is kinda difficult to get into.
> I feel an urge and heartache, it's like everything, my entire life feels wrong.
> I feel incomplete living as I do.
Etc. Did I fuck up?
it doesn't sound bad desu, I thought you told them something like "yea bby I want to be a sissy slut and get fucked by the football team :3 awoo", so its just that you had shitty friends probably
I once said; "If I'd been born as a female, I'd probably be more outgoing and date more, since it'd make me feel mere secure than now"
All the other shit I never said in person - only to a few randomers online.
Once i realized the motivation it just was like a balloon popping. I still fantasize about it and masturbate to the thought of it, but at the same time i have hetero attraction and no longer want to be a woman.
some alienation, some depression, lots of anxiety. I've had cross-gender fantasies since early puberty.
it's just so hard to disentangle this from all the other crap stuff that has happened in my life. I can't reliably point at one thing and say "this makes me unhappy" any more
>Dating Poly mtf Pre-Op aka Girl 1
>Girl 1 has girlfriend mtf Pre-Op aka Girl 2
>hit on Girl 2
>she wants to be friends
>ask to be more
>rejected cause she's a lesbian
Girl 2 is a mtf lesbian with male parts, who is dating a mtf with male parts, but rejects guy not because personality, but cause...
If you keep up with practicing your Hare Krishna chants daily you probs won't have to go back to being an insect. Also, Krishna is basically a tranny himself so he's sure to look out for the downtrodden sissy-anons who try to get help from him.
> tfw believing something doesn't make it true
If it did I'd just choose to be reincarnated as a loli in 2D heaven.
> not wanting to be a cute insect girl
> he wouldn't a fluffy moth
Gensokyo's a scary place, anon.
I just wanna say I'm really glad this thread is here because it feels like fore the first time people understand how I feel and that's a really great feeling........Ih ope it stays around persistently
I love you guys
People tend to disagree with that. For instance; most of the people that I've asked on LGBT believe that I'm AGP from how i describe myself. That is partly true, in my own opinion. I mean, I get turned on by the thought of me being the female, but I also get turned on by the thought of guys admiring me, but, sexual thoughts are not the only kind of thoughs that I have regardin gender roles. Some times I wanna cry when I see a girl with longer legs than me or when I spot a girl with flawless hair. I envy cis girls - a lot - and I have depression several months at a time because of my inability to become a passable woman.
I don't think the cause of why you want to be a girl matters as much as how persistent your desire is. If it's seriously impacting your life, like it's involuntarily taking brain power to think about being a girl throughout the day and interfering with normal activities, you should try HRT to deal with it. Maybe you will find it's the wrong treatment for you, or it was just what you needed, or that you need to go a bit further. But you can't just not try it.
The motorcycle and long, black dress should count for something. ;_; It's not like I added pumpkin spice lattes and uggs.
I think there's considerable overlap between the two. I used to get off on forced feminization stuff before transitioning. I think it was probably an outlet to self-insert in a feminine role without having to acknowledge that I wanted to be a girl. My dad got me a Playboy magazine when I was 11, I remember masturbating to it and imagining I was one of the girls in it. Most of my early masturbation fantasies were me as a girl having sex with a guy. I think a certain degree of AGP makes sense, private sexuality is one of the only outlets for femininity a closeted mtf has, considering they have to spend every day pretending to be a guy. I bet a lot of people who would label themselves as "AGP" wouldn't suffer from it if they were raised as girls from the get-go.
As an addendum, I like checking in the mirror to see if my boobs have grown or to see if my hips seem any wider, but I never really get turned on by my own body. It seems strange to me that someone would literally get turned on by themselves. So I think there's different degrees of "AGP", just like there's different degrees of dysphoria.
This, "forcing you to be a girl so you don't feel guilty about it" argument is pretty bad to be honest. I have a diaper fetish and part of the fetish is being forced back into diapers by an attractive female. Do you mean to tell me that I don't want to feel guilty about liking to wear diapers? No. I think AGP and the ABDL fetish are VERY closely intertwined as emasculation fetishes. Also, just because something is a fetish doesn't mean it's gonna be tame, fetishes can consume a person. While I still think of my AGP as a fetish, I also acknowlege that I had to become that emasculated version of myself to be able to function on a daily basis. There was a growing, burning desire with every fap session I had. Eventually, my desire transcended just sex and that's when I knew it was time to transition.
Also, to add on, I do think there are varying levels of AGP, but these levels simply depend on factors such as how prone someone is to interpret their fantasies as "being female". The life cycle of AGP is pretty crazy. First it started with sissy captions, then I went to the store to buy female underwear, then skirts, then makeup, heels. Then I started talking to men who I wasn't really interested in to begin with. Next it was crossdressing in public and soon enough I needed my own breasts to feel complete. I honestly AGP as very self-destructive. I don't believe there is any real way for ine with AGP to actually ever feel whole, which is why it fucking sucks.
...It's not an "argument". I'm talking about my own personal experiences. I transitioned and have a stable relationship with my boyfriend and that stuff doesn't really interest me anymore. It stopped interesting to me once I broke down that mental barrier and just let myself think of myself as a girl sexually again. I think AGP is a legitimate and distinct phenomenon but I also think it's an attractive excuse for a lot of closeted trans women and that's concerning to me.
Excuse as in what? If these closeted trans-women actually read anything about AGP, then they would know, eventually they SHOULD transition. Blanchard and Anne Lawrence both support transitioning for AGP people. I think what angers people is that it's seen as a paraphilia and AGP has A LOT of commonalities with a paraphilic tendency.
Excuse as in "I shouldn't make major life decisions based around fetishes", which I would definitely agree with. I'm not about to go out and try to get raped or kidnapped and turned into a sex slave just because I like fantasizing about it
I don't agree with the whole "do it if it hurts nobody" thing nowadays. AGP hurts yourself. It can end tragically. It's a desire that only increases over time. You'll invest in surgery after surgery, your life is based around this "transition", then you get to the end of the rainbow and what? You've wasted years of your fucking life on something that didn't have to grow into a powerful desire. I think boundaries should be set on fetishes, especially one as self-destructive as forced fem. This doesn't even compare to coming out as Homosexual. Homosexuals don't need extensive surgeries and hormones to "be themselves". So yes, I'm a self-hating AGPer. Had I of known what my fetish would become, I would've set more boundaries for myself.
Don't fool yourself. You're in the LGBT section for a reason, no? You've discovered that you have the trans-woman transformation fetish and are highly distressed about it. I've been at that point. Sadly, you might just have to ride the wave and see where it goes.
Hey hey now missy, don't distress. Just give in. Maybe you'll end up some big, strong man's wife. He'll buy you cute dresses to wear around the house;, grab your butt, play with your hair and pleasure you all night. Just give in, I know you'd like that little miss slutty slut :)
Most 'trans lesbians' are bisexual. This is nothing new. In fact, in my experience as a former transbian and having known many others, I believe that a large percentage of 'trans lesbians' are only weakly gynephilic and prefer the company of other males.
I believe many of them, including myself had significant trauma surrounding other males growing up, due to not fitting into our prescribed masculine roles and feel more comfortable engaging other males sexually as transwomen.
There are many (but not all) transbians who are behaviorally bisexual and even primarily androphilic (dating mostly other transwomen). I believe we have a kind of pseudo-autogynephilia which manifests not as a desire to be a real woman, but as an auto-eroticized tendency to view oneself as a feminized male.
Under different conditions I think many of us would live as femboys or twinks who date and have sex with other effeminate males.
You know... That's good to say and all but, how do you enforce limits? I used to try to stop myself. I thought it was bad for me (and it really is) and after whatever I fantasized over I'd force myself to finish to some vanilla fantasies or porn. And sometimes I'd manage to last for a while, but I would always cave. And eventually it became too much to stave off. What am I supposed to do?
I am actually willing to bet that there are. Because of your obvious freak status in society, you'll draw a lot of positive and negative attention to yourself. I'm sure that in all of this chaos, it'll be possible to find a woman.
I think all forms of therapy and modern psychology are a fucking joke, ESPECIALLY "Gender therapy", thanks for helping me "discover" that I'm a certain gender bud. The only thing therapists are good for are prescribing meds and providing someone to vent to, which you can do without paying any money out of your pocket.
That has been my experience, so I was wondering if it was good for anybody. Honestly I've learned a lot more just talking with people on 4chan. At least they'll throw out theories and shit while the therapists I've seen were basically expensive ears.
How my AGP took hold of me
>Had GF for 3 years(10-sophmore year of college)
>Had a pretty awesome sex life
>GF broke up with me because I cheated
>Started feeling really lonely, fat and ugly
>Was turned on by my inadequacy as a man
>Discovered forced fem
>Bought some panties and skirts from wal-mart
>somehow found myself fantasizing about cock(not really attractive men, just taking cock)
>addicted to sissy stuff
>could no longer get it up for women as much as I could when masturbating myself
>Began to have feelings of wanting to be a woman
>Feelings grow with every fap session
really? well how fucked up is that
idk man i'm not very encouraged. like how would I even find such a girl? it just seems like it'd be such a tiny proportion of them
like I just read this shit http://thirdwaytrans.com/2014/07/13/there-are-no-identities-lurking-in-the-shadows-of-the-psyche/ and it was making me think - can I just not....stop thinking about this shit? like if I just push through for a while until I can manage to find a gf maybe everything will be ok? and if I keep the hormones on much longer that option will be more difficult to take
>Began to have feelings of wanting to be a woman
>Feelings grow with every fap session
maybe since you were ok then there is still hope for you? how long ago was all that?
So is this like, my desire to be effeminate and girlyboy just for the sake of fulfilling my femdom fetishes? Because I'm completely into that.
If I was a lady, I would let you dominate and fuck me silly with your fem-penis. I just love femdom in all of its forms.
My experience with "AGP"...
I fantasized a lot at an early age about being transformed into a woman. I sort of forgot about it until a few years ago when I stumbled upon /lgbt/ and remembered about it all.
Coupled with my boredom and escapist fantasies, other peoples stories about sex changes... it's led to a lot of conflicting feelings. =/
I'm reasonably happy enough playing around though (crossdressing and whatnot) so I don't think I'd go all the way and transition.
>I'm reasonably happy enough playing around though (crossdressing and whatnot) so I don't think I'd go all the way and transition.
just leave this place and never come back while you still can
>Go on hormones
>Live as a woman
>The AGP is still there
I mean, if you're turned on by being a woman and you've transitioned and you're otherwise okay with everything that comes along with it, is that even a bad thing? Or do you mean gender dysphoria in general rather than just AGP?
someone interviewed in anne lawrence's book had the same situation. basically she considered it some kind of emotional or sexual disorder that prevented her from making real connections with other humans.
It sounds like you don't like muscular / hairy men, but are basically only interested in feminine men. I mean, I guess you could just like the dick; how do you feel about pre-op mtfs?
>fantasize about having vagina
>have been since i first started thinking of sex
I don't want this to be more than just a fetish or something. I hate myself because I just want this fresh meme hell to end. I don't want to be a woman but I never top, and i've only been with a guy once (wasn't bad, but i don't find anything but movie-star guys and cute twink guys attractive) been dating a girl who's been struggling with family issues and FtM ideas since before HS. Currently 20 in school. Why can't I stop fantasizing about alternate genitals? Sissy shit disgusts me but at the same time dicks are great.
Normally I think the convention is to wait until the image cap is reached, but whatever.