anyways, the "catering" to gay/trans people is retarded and gets blown out of proportion whenever it happens. Sadly, your interactive movies will acknowledge gay people, and this will have to continue until nobody fucking cares that a character is gay, and it no longer has to be a central part of somebody.
Trevor from GTA IV is a well done homosex. When a character stops being "that gay character" or "that trans character", and their sexuality/gender is just another characteristic, this shit will stop being as controversial. Just like how "the black character" stopped being so common.
I don't think they need to change to cater to us, but having more canon gay/trans representation would be nice in some major media, if nothing other than to make the characters more realistic. I honestly can't remember the last RPG I even played that allowed same-sex relationships, which is something seriously disappointing. Just don't pretend LGBT people don't exist, really.
>>3012410 Nah. Not in regard to NPCs anyway. Makes perfect sense statistically for a medium list of supporting characters to all be straight.
And if the player character is given a specific personality, as their own character who is not you, then it's perfectly fine for them to be whatever the writer wants too, it only makes sense. It's part of their unique personality.
It's when the PC is meant to be a blank-slate avatar of the player, and they are not allowed different romance options, that annoys me.
I mean, either let me be me, or don't. Or let me check a box that says "not interested in the romance aspect, skip that", if that's what it takes. I just don't want to have an avatar of myself running around wooing ladies without my permission.
I don't mind the occasional gay person in RPG's. I don't want Shekelberg Moneygrabber to "represent" me in the shitty AAA titles his company makes just for publicitys sake. It's almost always so fucking transparently pandering or vulgar and stereotypical.
Fallout: New vegas had a substantial amount of gay content, but it was well integrated into the game world and not very in-your-face. And they didn't base any marketing on it.
I admit the lore is kind of bad but the books and premise of the first two games weren't bad. However the third and fourth and every spinoff stabbed that with those one hit energy swords.
Also Chief is a character, if you read the books you get to know who chief is a lot more especially The Fall of Reach as it specifically takes place as he grows up (or mostly does.) It has been a while since I have read it.
>>3012503 >books "storyline sold separately" The games all have very weak and derivative plots. This wouldn't be a problem at all if they didn't try so hard to make it an epic space opera while failing at it.
Well, as a big gamer who is also a lesbian, I would love to see more gay people (of either sex) in games, but the gaming industry can't even cater to straight women yet, so gays are really on the bad end of this. It seems the industry will probably forever be catering to straight white males.. I don't know. It's a bit sad. I would just love some gay character options, especially in games where you can date another character (fire emblem awakening) -- just give us a choice. That's all. And stop making obvious gay characters that are either for entertainment or a comedic joke. I'm sick of that.
>>3012526 I didn't mean to say 'date another character' in FEA, but I meant to say (aside from Chrom) you can choose who gets with who, but there;s no gay option, even though the Archer Virion and the Monk have that obvious chemistry.
Video games cater to HS/college girls and guys with no friends, that's the main demo. The main demo for games is currently being socially engineered via trends and social media fads. They are the only people who will write feedback emails or file complaints, a corporation has to responsibly deal with consumer complaints in order to grow.
Start writing in and contributing with your feedback if you want to see things having an impact, it's simple.
Video games are always changing. It's a medium, lots of people are making lots of different kinds of video games to suit people's demands. Video games are not a coherent thing to begin with.
Many video games are perfectly fine for all gender identities and sexual orientations, and to try to "cater" to LGBT people doesn't really make sense. So I guess the answer is no, in that sense. But LGBT people are still a part of the market, so you might as well make some games that appeal to their particular interests. And making games that "cater to gay/trans people" can in fact be quite appealing to hetero/cis people too: cis people could have fun playing around with a gender slider or whatever "LGBT-friendly" feature you might think of. And of course if a game is actively insulting to gay/trans people, maybe they could cut that shit out too, although I don't think that's all that common in-game.
>>3012466 >Makes perfect sense statistically for a medium list of supporting characters to all be straight. If the list is small, that's fine, but personally, i think a game should stick to actual statistics and have around 4% lgbt. Ineviteably, it will sometimes be higher or lower, and that's fine, and in some circumstances open lgbt people will be unrealistic anyhow (hip hop games, maybe?). Anyhow, not every character who isn't shown to be gay must be straight.
If by cater, you mean make some sexually appealing male characters, then yes.
And I'm not talking about random barechested burly men, like, there's never an actual ottermode/lean guy who shows some actual skin. And for some reason straight guys and feminist women think guys wearing just thongs and boots is sexually appealing at all.
>>3013057 >I still want them to make Luigi gay and have him date bowser wat But no real talk if you're going to make anyone gay, make Toad gay. Probably not a great idea either way but I'd prefer that of the two.
well, I would like more same sex relationships and characters. I get a little tired of hetero stuff all the time you know? And there isn't really any gay male main character that I remember recently on any of the games I played, and I play a lot of games.
One day, I'd like a game with a gay protagonist that has a story that avoids being all about them being gay. That would be kinda nice, I guess. But then other than that, nah, I have no problem playing straight characters unless I'm SUPPOSED to be given a choice.
>>3013500 >I just want good games. I don't really give a shit about sexuality in them. I just want games where you don't get half-assed stories dumped on you by failed hollywood hacks. I play games because I want a game, not a shitty cutscene.
The best gay game I've played is Blood Dragon, the characters may not have been gay but everything about it was super gay. That's how I'd rather enjoy gay games.
>>3012410 Cater to? That's the prerogative of each individual developer. Do I want games with LGBT characters? Sure, I can identify with them more. Am I going to shame companies for not having them? Nope. That doesn't actually do anything but get fat men on the internet angry. Am I going to mention how it's pointless to purposely not include LGBT characters in games out of spite? Yup.
I'd like to think I'm generally reasonable about the whole thing.
I feel like people shouldn't be obligated to represent anyone in particular in their work. Gay people can create gay characters if they want them. Honest expression is the best expression. Representing yourself is the best representation.
>>3012434 I do think it's a step in the right direction when companies realize that we're a market they can't just ignore. Now they only need to understand that the characters need to actually be well written, too.
>>3012759 If you stuck to realistic statistics in other regards you'd end up with a horribly boring cast. It makes sense to increase the number of unusual characters of all kinds, not just so more people can identify with them, but simply because it's more interesting. That's not even about politics of any kind - just basic storytelling.
>>3013281 >One day, I'd like a game with a gay protagonist that has a story that avoids being all about them being gay.
Agreed. However, a lot of regular storylines (in all kinds of media) are acually A LOT about the main characters straight relationships, even when they are supposed to be about something else. I'd honestly be pretty happy already if more story-based stuff just avoided romance subplots alltogether.
>>3015628 I think you're bringing up an interesting point here.
On one hand, I do want to see more LGBT characters in fiction and I don't think not belonging to a group is a good argument for not writing about them - otherwise most fiction would be VERY dull, most people only have rather limited experience to draw from, after all.
But on the other hand, when representing a minority you'll usually only have few characters of that kind and therefore a good representation is essential or you're spreading false stereotypes. And straight cis people are bound to make mistakes when writing LGBT characters since it's something that lies outside their realm of experience.
Another problem is that all well written characters need to have flaws, but if they belong to an actual existing minority it can quickly seem like you mean to say that these flaws are common among that group, even if you had the very best intentions.
>>3012410 "Cater" is an incredibly loaded word. No I don't thin k every company should be head over heels trying to "cater" to minorities, but I don't think some queer (gay, trans, anything) that aren't horribly handled is too much to ask. The issue is that straight white cisdudes in game development seem to think they have a good chance at writing those sorts of characters when they largely have no idea about the life experiences of queer people, and it usually ends up really miserably.
The other issue is that whenever people mention this kind of thing, a bunch of dudebros immediately jump to defend the poor AAA companies. Oh it's just too much work, we shouldn't pander to fags, leave your political business out of my games, y'know.. the works. It would be really simple for people to admit that more variety is never a bad thing and that no-one is trying to force queer characters into literally every single video game ever, but people get way too angry to understand that I guess.
>>3016469 And no I'm not saying that game developers being largely not women and not queer is a good reason to avoid these characters, because they could -talk- to people. Tons of them would probably do it for free even.
>Set three weeks before the The Last of Us takes place, Riley surprises Ellie at the boarding school. Revealing that she became a Firefly during her absence, Riley takes Ellie to the abandoned shopping mall she brought her to when they first met.
>To cheer themselves up, the girls had a water gun fight and danced to some music. Ellie pleaded with Riley not to go despite having earlier encouraged her to. Riley drops her pendant in response and is kissed by Ellie, but the girls are soon interrupted by Runners that were attracted by the music.
>>3017180 Politics would be a game stopping half way through and discussing "straight privilege". Having gay characters isn't political, it just seems political because everyone's used to all the characters being straight
>>3016469 > games (as with almost all facets of civilisation) are made by straight white guys > 'games should have minority characters' > 'straight white guys dont know about minorities and so often cant create realistic representations' (i agree)
so whats your solution? have some minority person hired purely on the basis of them being a minority, so they can be an ideas guy? why cant minorities just make their own games if they want representation? why must someone else do it for you?
>>3017185 New Vegas approached themes like homosexuality with maturity that was far, FAR ahead of its time (and it was only released in 2010). Bioware couldn't hope to catch up to that even in their dreams.
>>3017410 companies exist to make money. straight white guys are the primary producer and consumer of videogames, not to mention the foundation of the Occident; this is why they are the centre of the gaming world as they are the real world (at least in the West)
>>3012410 Fuck no. They sure as shit shouldn't go out if their way to cater to women, either. Anita Sarkeesian csn drown in a vat of chimp feces. Vidja game developers should cater to the demographic most using their products, but there's the potential for them to create games to fit *any* demographic; so, in my opinion they should cater to their user base, regardless of what that user base is. But they should never feel "socially responsible" to pander to a certain demographic.
>>3017471 So you're saying that they should cater to their user base but not cater to women, who The Entertainment Software Association estimate make up 48% of all people who play video games. Good job you're not a CEO isn't it.
>>3017442 it's not /v that 'has their priorities straight. it's the game developers. if you don't understand that making games is a business that's dealing in milions then i feel sorry for you besides complaining about mindless pandering in a thread about pandering is stupid
>So again, it's not about good gameplay, or a good plot, or good quality, or good graphics, or anything along those lines. For me it is, but not for any company that wants assloads of money. They're not in this for charity.
That's why smaller developers with lower budgets can afford to appeal to a more narrow target audience. Seriously, it's not hard figuring this out.
>Vidja game developers should cater to the demographic most using their products, but there's the potential for them to create games to fit *any* demographic; so, in my opinion they should cater to their user base, regardless of what that user base is. But they should never feel "socially responsible" to pander to a certain demographic.
If you want to distill the point, it's basically this: The video game developer's primary concern should be catering to the demographic that buys their product, particularly in the case where a certain title or series is played predominantly by a specific demographic, *regardless of what the demographic in question is*, instead of pandering to be "socially responsible". If a game is played predominantly by 15 year old boys, it should cater to 15 year old boys, instead of being concerned that feminists might think that some of its aspects are sexist and throw a fit.
For OP's question, the short answer is simply no; the gaming industry should not reshape itself to pander to gays and trans. It should focus specifically on satisfying its target audience(s). That may sometimes include gay and trans people.
>>3017494 >>3017510 Those complaining about people who point out the problem of how minorities aren't present in games are the same people who advocate for the focus on majority appeal over an actual decent game.
>>3017558 "If you're not with us, you're against us", huh? Because no game that was pandering to majority was ever any good. It should instead pander to minority, because that automatically means a decent game. This is not /v. We are not talking about what makes a decent game. We are not choosing pandering over different elements of the game. Get that through your thick skull or gtfo to /v or tumblr to whine there instead
>>3017494 hey what did you expect? this was posted in /lgbt/ asking, basically, "should there be more lgbt characters in games?". of course we're going to think "yeah, that'd be cool". games don't HAVE to have queer characters to be good, but it'd be nice. they don't HAVE to pander to anyone. But if it's a good game then people will buy it regardless. Are you telling me if there was some really awesome game out and one of the main characters was gay, straight male gamers wouldn't buy it? What if the next GTA DLC had a gay protagonist? Or a woman protagonist? Or a gay woman protagonist? It's clearly ok to have non white protagonists in GTA without alienating white people, so why don't they try a different tact? (See also: The Ballad of Gay Tony, or Florian/Bernie for gay characters in GTA games)
>>3017587 Reading comprehension? Someone asked a bunch of homos "Do you think there should be more homos in vidya games?". The answer pretty much broadly was "Yes". You're now posting in here being all "It's a BUSINESS! GAY PEOPLE AREN'T THE MAJORITY! AAAAAAH!" The question was not "Would gearing games towards gay people and having gay sex minigames in every FPS be profitable?". You should probably try to up your reading comprehension.
>>3017442 its about whatever the company thinks is valuable to do
they may believe that they can make a copy paste of wow, cod, lol etc.and cash in on some of their popularity they may not believe they have the skill to create a fun game, and instead rely on hack pandering to various minority groups to give them a voice (eg gone home) they may believe that money isnt super important to them, so they can afford to relax a bit on what is likely to make money, and go with what they want to do
Nice bit of stats. fudging there. 48% of all vidya may be played by women but when you break the stats down into the kinds of games they play, they play puzzle and casual games almost entirely on mobile devices.
>>3015553 Thats what I meant. In Awakening he states all he wants is to settle down with a girl and shoot lightning bolts at some guys.
I honestly would have preferred it being Velanna instead of him. Yeah her character was shittier but she seemed like she cared more about the plight of mages whereas Anders goes from Care-free apostate to Revolutionary sudden bisexual that everyone hates cause he is a whiney piece of shit.
>>3012410 >Do any of you think that video games need to change to cater to gay/trans people? From an economic standpoint? Sure, they'd probably want to do that. From a moral standpoint? Not really... but it'd certainly be welcome.
Video games are way too stale, especially when it comes to characters, so some more variation in that area would be nice.
>>3017918 You realize most male "hardcore gamers" started out playing those "causal games" as well, right? If game developers only focused on what people where currently playing, you'd still be playing pong.
Women are still a young market, but a significant one that, like the male market, will most likely evolve given some time.
And for curiosity's sake: What games did you start out with?
>>3018735 Yeah, but what i meant was: he was supposed to be bi from the day 1, they just scrapped it because Liara was enough in gay department for a first game apparently Ashley was supposed to be bi too, but I'm not too sorry she isn't
Women are not a young market, women have been around as long as video games have. Despite the propaganda of Sarkeesian and friends, the major obstacle to women playing these kinds of games is... women's choices.
Immediately accessible, low-cost videogames that require zero investment in additional hardware are a new market. The uptake by certain groups (females and the elderly) in massive numbers does not suggest aversion from hardcore games rather it shows a clear preference for games that do not require significant investment in narrative or highly focused skill.
Anecdotal evidence provided by me on what games I started out on will not prove or disprove anything (I suspect you will not find my answer confirms your assessment). Regardless, the statement you're making is not proven. Children of all genders may start out on simple games out of necessity, these should not be mistaken for casual games, however.
Ultimately, what is needed is for more female developers to make more games that they think females want to play. Funnily enough, the only developer I've seen speaking of this (who is not part of a large team) mentions that she creates dress-up games.
>>3019125 >Ultimately, what is needed is for more female developers to make more games that they think females want to play. You disgusting gender conformist! All genders like the exact same things and only appear to not because of social conditioning. If we were not forced and taught by society we would all love to play the exact same games and all demographics would like the exact same things.
>>3017791 The first major collection of video games in the history of video games were story-based with a text interface. I can't stand you /v/ idiots. Most of you are retarded teenagers whose first game was on N64 or playstation. You don't even know what the fuck you're talking about more than half the time.
>>3017566 >>3017624 You basically define a "fun game" (subjective) as perpetually pandering to the majority, that a "fun game" intrinsically never appeals to a minority. According to you, if a game appeals to a minority in any way, it's automatically bad and the entire game is focused on pandering to said minority.
>baww it's not /v/ >why are we talking about minorities in video games on a board created for minorities in a thread complaining about minorities in video games Then bring this conversation about video games to /v/ and stop bothering us with it. You're a fucking moron.
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