So, in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars there have been 8 airborne jumps that we know of in theater, almost all of them were done by the 75th Rangers Regiment.
The 2e REP of the FFL did a combat jump into Timbuktu in Mali and last year a combat jumb into Niger.
There have been others by other countries, but overall just not enough to justify huge divisions and brigades spending lots of money and fuel on practice jumps for something that is basically obsolete.
They should leave it SOF units whose focus is that kinda things and get rid of it in conventional units and focus more on air assault which is much more relevant.
No the Airborne is not obsolete.
It's relatively cheap to maintain, and can be a valuable asset.
This opinion is coming from an 0311 (former) who also believes amphibious assaults are also a valuable asset even tho we haven't done it in recent history.
Basically why /k/ justifies having a gun. Better to have it and not use it, than need it and not have it...
So lets just leave war strategies to ppl who don't eat Hot Pockets and shitpost on 4chan from mommies basement, mmkay?
Parachuting entire divisions in is strategic. Helicopter aerial insertion is a tactic.
Just because there hasn't been any out and out 3rd generation warfare to justify it in the last 50 years doesn't mean it should be completely abandoned.
>So lets just leave war strategies to ppl who don't eat Hot Pockets and shitpost on 4chan from mommies basement, mmkay?
Because they've proven to be so competent at their jobs, haven't they?
I think part of the OP's point was that large conventional airborne units on the 82nd mold are utterly unsuited to conducting the mass airborne operations against a peer or near-peer opponent a la D-Day.
VDV is a bit more realistic for "real war", but it exists to serve needs largely determined by Russia's internal geography, while making huge compromises in heavy equipment in order to bring/drop that heavy equipment at all.
Yeah, or maybe I'm 25 and actually in the Army, but yeah, you're probably right, 14.
I'm not one of those blind patriots who sucks the military's dick about everything they do, I know the wars have basically been failures
OK that explained a lot.
You're upset you joined during peacetime and get buttfucked on a daily basis.
You're just mentally 14.
Just fucking with you man, you sound OK.
But don't blame losing Iraq on us. We were ordered to let their troops take it over. And they were garbage and lost it. It's like they don't take their own lives serious. They took training as a joke.
ISIS is more committed that's why they win.
The army did its job in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing more could be asked of them. The war was lost by the politicians who conducted the strategy and policies of the war. Failure may have been their goal all along though, who knows.
The army always wins its battles though.
Rhodesians would beg to differ.
Airborne is great for COIN because you can drop infantry where you need to, to trap insurgents. The anti air threat is not that great.
mass static line jumps are obsolete for conventional wars. air defense threat is too high. you will have to follow up quickly with helicopters or mechanized forces.
I think it's an interesting topic. I generally agree with you. Large scale airdrops have never been a good idea.
Small special forces halo drops should be more developed though. Imagine urban warfare, and a small team lands on the roof and secures a building to your rear. That's gonna fuck up your whole plan.
Special forces are great for sneakily taking out strategic targets behind enemy lines.
But the major problem with mass air drops is that they can't carry the supply to be anything more than light infantry with not enough bullets to last more than a day or two.
All of African countries love parachutes for this reason. Relatively cheap to maintain, attracts the gung ho types instead of typically corrupt/incompetent nigs, shit ground transportation infrastructure anyway, lack of modern AA means less risk, overall flexibility and fast response. Kind of a national status symbol too.
The point is seizing an Air Head to the enemies flank or rear, somewhere they aren't expecting it. You don't just throw people out there.
They already do a lot of HALO drops like you mentioned, the problem with them being shitty intel.
Anywhere worth taking against a remotely peer foe is very likely to have some sort of air defenses, which must be suppressed for that sort of beachhead situation.
And if you have to suppress those systems to have a jump even feasible, the enemy is likely to know where the jump will occur.
you are supposed to sit down and then gently hop out. rucks get unloaded separately.
Me and others enforced this while I was in the Army. Only had one idiot ever bust him self up getting out of a truck. A PFC that decided to jump out of truck from a standing position with his ruck and kit on. Knee went the wrong way when he landed on the cement.
Every operation in near-peer situations involves preparatory fires, even our named operations in Afghanistan involved them, that's the primary role of artillery and CAS.
Not understanding the principle of sof unit in 2016
>The fact that Iraq was lost and 15 years later we're still losing in Afghanistan
Poe's law, you cannot tell if someone actually believes such a stupid claim or if they are simply miming it.
They used to yell to hurry up.
I agree you shouldn't do it. I purposely waited to be the last man out and scooted my ass down the ladder even tho I was being yelled at.
Hence why my knees aren't busted.
A lot of Mustard Stained Wings were earned in Iraq with jumps that were a farce. They jumped into Kurd areas that were already safe from Saddam's forces. Some were even picked up by Kurd Security Forces in trucks and driven to a Kurd base.
A Colonel from my brigade at Bragg, finagled him self a 6 month IA deployment. Just so he could get a "combat jump", and make him self more competitive for General.
Obviously I wasn't calling Afghanistan near-peer situation,
How would an air assault be more effective at seizing an airfield (which is a battalion size objective)?
You're right, so do helicopters, its part of the reason why there is so much focus on the SBCT and HBCT nowadays.
There is no reason to not be overly safe during training, except for maybe once or twice a year during big exercises.
It's better to keep everyone at a Walk Pace. Than to have a bunch of injuries that keep people from training or put them out of the military.
That's what training is for
Skydivers and Extreme ironing undergo great lenghts to ensure that they won't be in danger. Paratroopers, who expect themselves to be shoot at, would be even more paranoid and be trained and equipped better
Meanwhile, the exact same war is being fought in the streets of Paris and Cologne.
You need to grow out of the Super Bowl mentality, where there's a clear winner. That mindset lost WW2 for the Japs.
We're not fighting the war in our own urban centers and countryside, that's a definite win. We keep winning as long as we keep it away from our shores.
Amphibus assaults have been done by other nations in recent history. Brits in Falklands and also a small one during iraq invasion.
Unless you are doing halo air drops are obsolete. It is a cheap skill to maintain though and having the balls to jump out of a plane produces tough infantry
civilian parachutists use a different chute and land differently.
freefall parachuting with large rectangular parachutes allow you to come in at a shallow angle and run/drag in your landing.
static line jumpers use a round or square chute. Which drops them straight down onto the ground. if you watch enough static line jumps. You will notice that the last 10 fee or so it appears they lose all air in the chute and they just drop like a rock.
It is a horribly expensive skill to maintain. flight hours on airforce cargo planes aren't cheap.
you need to have Riggers and their infrastructure.
airforce/marine/navy pilots get trained up to parachute in a few days. While the Airborne Troops take weeks because of a lot of unnecessary rucking and PT.
No one outside of SOCOM/MARSOC and their support units should be airborne. Except in case of the next large scale war. In which case we can train up existing light infantry in a week to fall out of an airplane and not kill them selves on the landing.
they do for freefall/halo jumps.
the square chute the US Army uses now for static line jumping is easier to train and less chance a paratrooper will fly well out of the drop zone.
Airborne infantry E6 here, it's massively overrated but not useless. Airfield-securing jumps have a valid (albeit very rare) purpose at the strategic level, even through they're often operationally awkward and tactically retarded.
The US army should get rid of line airborne units and leave it to the Ranger battalions.
Maybe then we could stop using T11s and start using sane, steerable freefall parafoils instead.
Airborne also informally serves as a way of identifying better risk-takers for different pipelines; but it's overrated there also. The "elite" aura is horseshit, we may be slightly better at rucking than mech units but the reputation is historical inertia.
And besides, an average, competent joe with a 240 PT score and a Stryker will have an optempo (and level of supply) that beats a stud with a 300 PT score moving on foot every time.
Because when they tried them idiot soldiers were steering them into each other and getting fucked up. The Army knows they're better, but Pvt. Joe Retard can't handle them.
Gliders do the same thing without the massive tactical fuckup of a buncha troops landing in random places miles apart
Which is kinda like steerable parachutes except harder to fuck up.
>who wears short shorts
>Military gliders is the way to go, not parachutes.
Convertible APC/gliders that swim to shore under the cover of heavy caliber gunfire support from a heavily armored capitol ship. Traditional aircraft carriers are sub bait, so we'll have to launch all our Advanced Super Tomcats from submarine mini-carriers.
Only useful when you need it? Yes!
Basically its a 911 force. How else are you going to put a brigade sized force anywhere in the world in less than 24hrs? ....and then support them.
Marines have amphib landers and such, but they are scattered and can take days to get on site. Airborne troops can take as little as 8hrs from wheels up depending on where.
Greneda and Panama both saw combat jumps in the 90's.
Tldr: its kept around for when we need to go from peace to war real fast and dont have time for a build up.
Not exlpensive to maintain that skill at all.
Pilots need flight time regardless. Airborne begs for a ride, this is how jumps are made. Riggers MOS is just jump school plus a few days to learn how to pack and fix a chute. You can litterally stuff a chute into a rig and it will still (usually) kind of work.
My great uncle was in a glider during the Normandy landings. Not the best idea ever developed.
>mfw the JEEP inside crushed three people on landing
Combat drops are pointless, however for COIN operations and strategic rapid reinforcements its pretty nice to have as a move.
Mali was a hardly a combat drop.
In Georgia, the Russians moved 2 division of light infantry in a day to support the the 58th, while they did not drop into Georgia, they were quickly transported into the theater within 48 hours while a normal army unit based in another region would have to prepare and move by train/aircraft, the build up of forces would be blatant and Georgia would have time to react.
While airborne troops fill a very niche role, its nonetheless useful.
>mfw ill never be Elysian Drop Troops jumping from the back of a valkyrie into literal hell
I'm watching this documentary on the Frech in Mai and there were actually several drops done, at least 3, maybe more
The French have quite a lot of modern experience with airborne drops in theater
I am not sure that's a good example of combat jumps. I mean the FFL was fighting shit tier African militias. Against a real military they would have been horribly exposed to counter attack without heavy weapons and CAS.
Yeah, leave it to Ranger Batts, they are specialized airborne infantry anyway, mass airborne drops are a thing of the past and will have no positive effect in the future.
A paradrop if any should be restricted to company-sized elements.
Those parachutes are great for parasailing. At least I think they are the same.. Am I wrong?
What about HALO insertion via the bomb bay of a B2?
You could put a SEAL team in the bay on special racks. Racks are heated to keep the seals warm. Oxygen hook ups to tanks carriered by the bomber. Over the drop zone they go to personal oxygen and then the bays open. The racks fall out from under them and they then it is HALO jump business as usual.
What the fuck were they doing? Why the hell were they jumping into the main part of base like that?
A Marine's opinion about anything is like asking a little kid for advice buying a car or home. It's worthless
For those of you who don't know/ remember me- I was making a joke. I did my time in 2REP many years ago and situations like in the video hardly ever happen. It was one of many training jumps near 2REP base in Calvi. The pilot made a bad assessment and gave the green light too early and legionnaires landed on regiment buldings (landing zone is near the regiment buildings as shown on the video below).
As a prior US military person, who is going to go to France to try and join the legion, is there any way to make sure I get put in the 2REP? Is being /fit/ really the only indicator of where you'll be put?
I don't want to join and get stuck in mech which is what I've been in the whole time I've been in the U.S. Army
It's 2REP or nothing
Since the moment you show up in recruitment centre to the moment you finish your first part of basic training in Castelnaudary, you will be watched closely and exposed to a lot of tests (physical, psychic and language). Just make sure to get good marks and remember to mention 2REP every time you are aked. After basic training every fresh legionnaire is evaluated and given points and arranged from the best to the worse. There is a tradidion that 5 legionnaires with best results can choose their regimant, all of the others will go where they are ordered to. However, they are also asked on their preferences and it is also taken under consideration.
How is barracks life in the legion? I've always wondered that. Do you at least get your own rooms or share or are there bays?
And what is taking leave like? Do you have to sacrifice your first born son to take leave like in the U.S. army?
You can forget about taking leave for the first couple of months or even a year. My first leave has ended even before it started- I was turned down because creases on my uniform were not even (I was ironing them for couple of hours). But the longer you stay the easier it gets. As for the barracks- it is a hrad life in spartan conditions, so don't expect luxuries. You won't be spending a lot of time in your quarters anyways. However after a few years of service you will be able to get permission to rent a flat near the regiment.
So basically the same as the U.S.
Leave is basically impossible to take unless you suck off your commander or give your unborn child, unless it's during the designated window they give you. God forbid you don't want to take it during that time because you have an important thing to go to at another time.
And barracks are whatever as long as your roommate isn't an ass and stays up all night watching movies or playing music