Lockheed BTFO in Humvee replacement program

So Lockheed was so frustrated about losing this cushy contract it just filed a suit on Oshkosh?

>>28907908
Yes. big boy lockheed upset they lost out on a contract to someone smaller when they thought they had it in the bag from the start just because of who they are.

>>28907942
>>28907908
They did the same thing with the future bomber project

>>28907398
Fuck it. A lot of these big corps do that as a matter of course rather than reason. They will always file a petition and suit just to see if they "can." and if it works out the potential payout is worth the minimal court fees.

I would love to see a law in place where if you knowingly go into the court with a fraudulent case you are fined in proportion to your wealth, to the tune of...3% for a big company that would be quite the bite.

>>28907908
Lockheed filed suit because information was withheld from the officials who made the contract selection that Lockheed feels would have influenced the outcome.

>>28907908
No, this happens in pretty much every major defense contract. In fact, Oshkosh is doing it itself at the moment. One of their trucks lost a competition in some Euro country, and Oshkosh is disputing the results. It's pretty standard procedure.

>>28907398
I love Lockheed, but nothing beats Oshkosh for wheeled vehicles.

>>28907942
I dont even understand how thats grounds for a lawsuit. Thats like Krispy Kreme sueing me for buying Dunken Donuts.
Like, thats the free market, I dont understand the confusion

>>28907398
>Military vehicles can't drive more than a few thousand miles without breaking
pretty fucking embarrassing to be honest, guys.

>>28908358
It's because it's a government contract. The actual grounds are generally about it not being a fair competition.

>>28907398
>Humvee’s 2,968 miles. Lockheed posted 1,271 miles, while AM General demonstrated 526 miles
can someone explain to me why these vehicles seem to fall to shit so fast?
is it the environment, or are they getting blown up, or the weight of armor fucks up the frame etc.
hell a toyota with zero maintenance will scoff at those numbers

>>28908387
>fair

it wasnt, they were up against Oshkosh

>>28908401
any car will scoff at 7000 miles with no maintenance when new.

the trucks are geared super low and they move tons of weight, that stresses the drivetrain like a motherfucker, especially when offroad.
Plus all military vehicles are like one step above a working prototype. The Tacoma has been around for decades and has benefitted from years of real world R&D.
A 25ton offroad vehicle is a pretty new idea

>>28908401
Most likely because of the weight they need to carry around all the time. A naked Humvee weighs twice as much as a Hilux.

>>28908401
>a toyota with zero maintenance will scoff at those numbers

Try it off road. Not dirt road, but true cross country driving. That tends to be pretty rough on vehicles. There's probably towing and hauling criteria involved, also.

>>28908583
Thats not why a Toyota lasts longer this: >>28908482 is. With a good skid plate I would fully expect a Tacoma to handle the same, or worse, terrain those baby MRAPs do, even towing a proportionally similar weight.

>>28908482
Exactly, a >3000lb vehicle driving on paved roads and a 14000lb vehicle driving offroad is an absurd comparison.

I'm okay with this. Oshkosh makes some pretty good trucks. I don't think I've even seen an airline fire truck that was sent made by them.

>>28908583
>Not dirt road, but true cross country driving.

This. The figures sited here >>28907398 are for reliability over a very demanding course.

On the other hand, when used on road, they probably don't measure up to the reliability of a tractor-trailer combo. But that's because their systems are not optimized for continuous high speed highway operation. But that commercial truck would never even complete the off road course.

Why not a light tracked vehicle with band tracks? Wouldn't that be superior?

>>28910225
>i have never had to repair a track vehicle nor understand what it entails.

>>28907908
>shit on by b'gosh
I'd be buttblasted too.

>>28910342
tracks are mechanically less complex than wheels

>>28908401
I assume that they are being taxed beyond what they would normally be used for.

>>28908381
They aren't highway miles, nimrod.

>>28910428
And more likely to break at high speeds and are a bitch to replace in the field.

>>28910659
You aren't going high speeds offroad

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>>28908401

>can someone explain to me why these vehicles seem to fall to shit so fast?

Poor/improper maintenance, over stressing the vehicle.

If the HMMWV was used as intended, and taken care of properly, it would work just fine.

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>>28910428
>tracks are mechanically less complex than wheels

The stupid shit you see on /k/

>>28910428
Let's put it this way. A track is made up of MANY wheels.

>>28910428
>tracks are mechanically less complex than wheels
nigga you what?

>>28907398

welcome to Federal contracting. disputes happen all the time for all types of contracts, big or small.

>>28908039
I practice procurement law. The law you propose would be meaningless because, humans are fallible, defects are common, and the would-be contractor litigating a bid protest almost never has adequate information for the case to be deemed "fraudulent" - often the process must be initiated and discovery completed for the would-be contractor to even be able to determine if it lost legitimately.

>>28910428
This isn't even accurate. Nor even if it was would it correspond to real world repair and maintenance task time, which is all much, much higher for tracked vehicles.

I mean, if this were true, why wouldn't every farm everywhere use tracked vehicles for farm work?

all I know is that Oshkosh has been busy lately. I live nearby and see MRAPs/etc on the roads daily.

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>>28908327
>I love Lockheed

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>>28907398
> Oshkosh Corp.’s JLTV

Costs a bazillion dollars and can’t carry jack-shit compared to a Humvee.

Another corporate / government boondoggle that will cost American tax payers out the ass and meanwhile, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of already paid for and perfectly good MRAPs parked in the desert doing nothing...

>>28914345
>P-38
>U-2
>C-130
>C-5
>SR-71
>P-3 Orion
>S-3 Viking
>F-16 via purchase of General Dynamics fighter division
>F-117
>F-22
>F-35
Lockheed is fucking awesome.

>>28914373
You obviously don't understand what the JLTV is for. The JLTV is not a true HMMVW replacement. Rather, it is a UAH replacement. Give the tactical maneuvering to a more armored platform that is dedicated to it. The HMMVW will still be around, but relegated to duties behind the lines. This is good. The IBCT has been without decent tactical maneuverability for too long. And before you ask, no, an MRAP will not do this anywhere near as well. Too big, too heavy. It's neither strategically nor tactically mobile enough.

>>28914458
You are responding to someone who thinks MRAPs can do anything but patrol on roads.

>>28914458
Do they intend to use them in the other BCT's or just Infantry?

>>28914425
look at that list and tell me what you don't see. Any land vehicles?

>>28914608
Well, there's the 10 LCS' they've built.

>>28914552
Think about it. In a SBCT, they're already all in Strykers. In an ABCT, they're in Bradleys.

>>28914718
That's sea, you idiot.

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>>28914718
>LCS
>Land vehicle
I would call you a retard but LM would probably sue me

>>28914958
defamation, that's a paddlin

>>28914913
ABCT have Humvees as well.

>>28907908
Because they are publicly traded companies they have to protect their investors through all possible means. That means being turbo dicks is par the course.

>>28914926
>>28914958
The point's that they aren't just aircraft manufacturers.

>>28915107
They do indeed. Now just think of how they're used. Think of where they fit in organization wise. Now tell me if you think the JLTV has any place there.

Come on, man, use your brain!

>>28914373
In afghanistan, atleast for the Marines, you couldnt leave the wire in a humvee up armored or not. The MRAP and M-ATV, have both already seen years of combat and were basically Oshkosh's prototype, for the JLTV. While the process may be corrupt and unfair, Oshkosh is the correct choice.

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>>28915422
I'd consider BAE's RG-33 the better MRAP, but we had the Socom Variant.

>>28907398
Why do people say btfo? It is so retarded.

>>28915230
That's not what they asked you for though you shmuck. Land vehicles. Can you list any from them?

>>28915527
We Marines are poor, I cant say which is better, but I know there were a lot more Oskosh MRAPs and MATVs, and so the ubiquity is there.

>>28915647
The ones we had had some great tweaks, first the RWS and later it's upgraded version, the CROWS-II that dropped the smoke dispensers for armor and fully integrated optics instead of a user-mounted LRF. Unlike standard RG-33s the roof hatches open outward so you have a shield if you trunk monkey. And the comms rigged for our own model jammer, a twin MBITR mount, a PSC-5 SATCOM mount, and a BFT.

>>28908039
Its called a "loser-pays" system, and its been suggested a bunch of times.

I am surprised that the contract didn't explicitly forbid this however. After the first time, you think the contract writers would figure it out.

>>28910834
Didn't know they ran like they were from the Flintstones's.

>>28910428
Do your parents still go to the same family reunions even after the divorce?

Did they MEET at a family reunion?

>>28914425
>>F-35
> :^)

>>28916882
>memefacing like it means anything
>Implying the F-35 isn't awesome

>>28915527
>All dem Mark 23's
>Sig P228's
>All dat fucking casual swagger
>Look like a bunch of rag tag low class 'mericans
>qt3.14 mixed race AF officer that you know that nerdy motherfucker in the front is railing the shit out of

ALL OF MY JELLY

>>28916971
Being in an SF group is the best time you can have in the Army.

Unless you're in one of the Combat Service Support jobs like mechanic or cook. Combat Support jobs like Signal, MI, or Medical are great.

>>28917000
Checked.

I really hope in 10 years all of the competent young men of /k/ will make up most of the SF groups and Ranger battalions.

I sometimes like to think the JOOS are using /k/ to prep the future generations of special operators.

What would it be like to have an all /k/ommando ODA?

>>28917058
/k/ommandos, especially /pol/lack types, would wash out of Selection.

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>>28917072
A man can dream.

>>28917188
Green Berets are social players primarily. It's not like Seals where the guys they want are the ones who can power through an insane physical challenge. And the people you want to infiltrate would be ID'd pretty easily.

>>28915563
>shkosh
because 4chan is full of retards you fucking retard

>>28917058
It'd be a bunch of fat, weeb, necktards.

I'd rather die than actually have to work with the common denominator of /k/

>>28917267
Valid point, retard. Please don't use btfo. I heard some one use it in public and it made me cringe.

>Oshkosh
Saw one of their trucks score an anti-aircraft kill back in '14.
http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2014/07/accident-occurred-july-31-2014-at.html

>>28910834
No it will not, I worked on building the prototype trans for the jltv. Hummers are to heavy to carry armour plain and simple.

>>28910834
well it's over 30years old.
cars back then were shit.
todays plastic cars are way more reliable.

>>28908311
Oshkosh were buttblasted about losing to MAN/Rheinmetall for the britbong truck tender, but that was like a decade ago

>>28920025
They're doing it about something to do with the Czechs, currently.

>>28908401

>Toyota truck meme

I curse top gear for creating this

>>28920082
For real. The real reason you see so many toyota trucks beat to shit is because they were exported all over the world, and in a shithole like Africa or the middle east, you are more likely to find toyota engine parts and some shady ass repair place.

>>28915527
This needs a Brazzers logo.

>>28910639
...yes they fucking are.

Our Humvees are so shit we basically never use them, and we're a damn ambulance company.

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>>28920082
Not really.

In the Philippines, we have lots of old Toyota models still ambling around in good order despite obvious signs of previous damage. If it's Toyota, it's built no-nonesense.

Pictured being the most famous.

>>28920082
Most Lada Nivas will though live even longer

>>28908482
>A 25ton offroad vehicle is a pretty new idea
Are you kidding me? Have you never heard of Tatra and Kamaz?

>>28919900
Well, the newest models with transmission, suspension, and engine built to have armor aren't bad.

doesnt oshkosh make baby clothes?

>>28922852
Yeah, they sell baby clothes to offset their ventures in the riskier defense contractor industry.

>>28922880
i feel like other companies should do that, like boeing can sell furniture when not building military aircraft

>>28922852
>>28922880
>>28922967
Oshkosh Corp and OshKosh B'Gosh are separate companies, guys, they're both named after the town they're in, Oshkosh, Wi.

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>>28923787
>Oshkosh Corp and OshKosh B'Gosh are separate companies

>>28921997
Not the way you fucking Russian hooligans drive, they wont. Seriously, I've lived in Atlanta, Los Angeles and New York, but I had more close calls as a pedestrian and while in a taxi with fucked up retarded drivers doing stupid shit in St. Petersburg for the year and a half I was there than all the rest combined. And then of course there's also watching every single fuck pulled over by cops give a handshake loaded with some rubles and drive along.

Fuck Russian roads, fuck Russian drivers and FUCK Russian cops. There were a ton of things I loved about living in Russia but being within half a mile of a Russian operating a motor vehicle was not one of them.

>>28923816
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_Corporation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OshKosh_B'Gosh

>own 95% of all govt contracts
>sue because you dont get another one

MIC needs to die a painful death

>>28923975
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_corporation
Oshkosh Corp is a shell corporation of OshKosh B'Gosh, merely a front to push affordable clothing brands to GIs and their military wives

>>28924018
>sue because the selection process was rigged

Your tinfoil views of the mythical MIC blind you from logic.

>>28924049
More like because they believe the process was rigged.

>>28924025
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter's,_Inc.

Seriously? Are you that fucking stupid that you can't even follow who owns what?

>>28924263
Which is a view you can understand.

>"Recently, we were made aware of a substantial number of documents directly related to the competition that were not provided to the GAO or Lockheed Martin until very late in the protest process. We believe this newly discovered information should have been considered by the GAO before issuing a ruling on the protest, however, GAO declined to grant an extension to the 100-day deadline and could not consider the new documents.”

>>28910225
Oh, hi Mike.