>>28903149 I'm pretty sure in a lot of places you can get in a lot of shit for using one, especially since I think most say it as a nonlethal weapon when it actually has the capacity to do a lot of permanent damage as well as kill in untrained hands.
>>28903149 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RRVI9uZC84 >your average case of "self defense" with a baton
pain compliance tools=/=weapons and using one as such is a recipe for getting your fucking ass kicked. a collapsible baton isn't the same thing as an old school LA riot vintage nigger bopper night stick that breaks bones on every hit.
>>28903149 >who make a good one ASP >do you carry one? No, I'm able to carry guns and knives. I can imagine no situation where I can justify beating someone with a metal stick, but not stabbing or shooting them.
My girlfriend is thoroughly opposed to carrying a firearm, despite my insistence. I've managed to get her to carry a knife now, but she keeps insisting it's for self defense, despite me telling her to only see it as a means to break contact and gain a way out of the situation entirely, while not relying on the thing. I have however, suggested batons for SD, based on my own previous knife encounters, and just figuring you want the extra distance between you and a sharp blade. Did I fuck up? She's yet to get it or even really consider it (she's one of those who think shit will never happen to them, despite knowing me), but now I'm starting to reconsider my opinion of batons
>>28904115 It doesn't shows up in your commentary but I hope you know that ownership of a weapon is never enough as only training and ease of use of said weapon allow it to be efficient. If she doesn't want a weapon, it become a liability because she won't have the spirit to use it properly and as it should in the first place. It looks like she use the tools and the strategies you want her to have based on your experiences, not hers. If you want her to defend herself by herself, maybe she should pick the tools she deems useful and capable of using.
Anyway, a knife and a baton, without the proper training is only a fraction of its usefulness and can just as well become a problem, a baton especially (as with a knife, it can wound people even if the owner doesn't actively want to).
I may be completely wrong but based on what you are saying, it looks like you are the one who said what she should use and you don't even bothered to actually teach and train her, simply assuming she will even though she looks like the idea of carrying weapons doesn't even come from her.
>>28904203 It's a sap, they were commonly used by police up until the 70s or 80s. Some police uniforms had "sap pockets" on them until the mid 90s, even those gh they were unused.
It's a flat-ish leather dong with lead filling on the business end. It's very painful when used right, but realitvely safe to the person its used on. It was a pain compliance tool and fell out of favor as police and departments sought to reform their image as billy-clubbing knuckle-draggers.
>>28904115 Honestly man? Probably a bad idea. I don't want to be a dick but it's not going to work out well. She's not going to want to carry it half of the time because it's heavy. They are much harder to deploy and properly use than a knife. Unless she is SERIOUSLY trained in its use and strong, then she is just going to get it taken away from her after she gets off an impotent swing or two.
With a knife she doesn't have to be smart or strong, and she can conceal it with the blade deployed when she is scared but doesn't want anyone to see her pull out a weapon. Look at that video up there of the dude swinging and then getting his ass kicked. I would suggest if anything that she also carries some mace. It's good to have options for different threat levels and it will give her the reach you're looking for. I can almost guarantee if she uses a baton that it's likely to get used on her.
Teach her self defense, teach her to be aware of her surroundings, and keep her fit.
She's probably not going to carry a gun unless something bad happens to her, so don't hound her on it too much. As for the whole breaking contact thing, don't worry, she will. If she is ever in a situation where she has to use her knife, she will be scared as hell and immediately run the second she can.
Take care, Anon. I wish you and your girlfriend the best. Be safe out there.
>>28904115 I don't think a woman has any chance of using a knife to stop a man intent on raping, killing or stealing from her. She'll probably attack with weak slashes that will piss the man off. I think she'd be better off with pepper spray.
>>28904115 have her carry mace and somehow get her to understand her only chance of not being raped to death is running the fuck away. It isn't even a gender thing, if I carried mace I'd have the same MO because it's a delaying tactic, not a weapon.
Or acclimate her to guns and get her to carry a pretty pink LC9 or something.
>>28904537 It was kind of a gradual thing that came about really slowly after the civil rights movement and anti-war protests. The attitude police had was very different than today, they were more hands on when dealing with people. Fights with police were more common. Cops used to brag that they only had to draw their gun one or two times in so many years as a cop, that attitude is long dead. When middle America saw their kids or kids close in age to theirs being roughed up by police on TV was probably the catalyst for change. Consequently, police are more serious today and less likely to oblige you with a fist fight or take you in an alley and teach you not to hit your wife. Video cameras were the final nail in that coffin.
For better or worse, that's why cops are the way they are today. Fast on the draw.
>>28904232 >departments sought to reform their image as billy-clubbing knuckle-draggers. Now they're just disrespectful shoot-on-sight coward spazzoids without people skills or a will to do a job right. Too bad nobody has integrity or shame anymore, otherwise they might want to reform again to regain the public trust. But nah, all those plate carriers and MRAPs and surplus M4s are just too cool to give up.
>>28904437 >>28904573 >>28904613 Reminder that rapes happen like more than 80% of the time inside houses, 70-75% of the time, it's either the victim or the perpetrator's house. More than 80% of the victims knew their rapist. Not that rapes in the streets never happen, but it's clearly the rarer case.
Being aware of your surroundings, of the people you're with is usually a far more important thing to have than a weapon when it comes to preventing crimes.
>>28904672 Cops like playing soldier, that's been true for along time. Ever heard cops referred to as "flatfoot"? Men who were not fit for military service became cops during WWII. Any way to feel more soldierly than working in a factory.
>>28904738 There is nothing that is "guaranteed 1-hit-KOs", maybe it couldn't swing for shit, maybe the other guy was too pumped up or intoxicated to give a shit, maybe it was a bad product. It's just a small piece with a metalhead, not a deathstick.
>>28904792 Some people have been shot in the head and have survived, some took sword strikes and arrows to the face and lived. There is nothing that will always, without failing kill anyone in a single strike, starting by the fact that you actually have to wield the thing, so if you don't commit, are ill, are uncertain, it won't work as well. If I'm a retard for thinking that i can't trust at 100% a metal stick to immediately incapacitate someone, then I'll be this retard anyday.
>>28904759 I know, I posted that thinking more of street harassment and shit than anything, because usually when women are getting catcalled or whatever they start to worry about it being a rapist or whatever whereas men are more likely to assume mugging when they're followed by hordes of urban youth
Anon can't force his gf to have more situational awareness, but she might benefit from some sort of self defense tool. In any case, a baton isn't it
>>28904846 >I wouldn't speculate to be that one But that's a different way to approach the issue. You should always assume you'll get knocked in a single attack and never assume you'll opponent will be knocked by a single attack. Then afterwards, you can be happy if either of those thinkings was proved false.
A lot of people in history have been killed because they thought that "with this he is done for", what is damaging in thinking that no attack can with a 100% certainty knocked down any one, any time ? I'd rather think I will always need 2-3 strike rather than imagining it will be easy and my opponent will drop as soon as I hit him with my magic wand.
A weapon is always and naturally a fearsome thing to have, but fights aren't a mathematical problem that will have the armed person always the winner. Brandishing a club won't make you win fights by the simple virtue of them being lethal weapons.
>>28904902 Well, this is a great thing to consider
>You should always assume you'll get knocked in a single attack and never assume you'll opponent will be knocked by a single attack
Also agree with the rest you've said. But my initial question was why the hits in that video did almost nothing to that frat boy. I've never seen a weapon being so ineffective at what its supposed to do
>>28904919 because collapsible batons are pain compliance tool
because if you guard your head and bumrush a guy with a baton you'll be within his guard before he can connect with a good hit
because a 3/4lb expanding baton has very little mass on the bashy bashy bit
IRL a machete is infinitely superior for HD/car defense if you can't get a gun easily/legally. no one fucks with a guy who stands in his front yard with a 30" machete and a pissed off attitude. If you're in a cucked state it's a "tool" for "cutting brush" and they can't say a damn thing about it because it's a fucking landscaping tool.
>>28904960 >because collapsible batons are pain compliance tool But that's wrong. They're intermediate weapons. Problem is departments teach their cops pain compliance moves like striking large muscle groups, which is completely backwards to how an impact weapon should be used.
>>28904437 >She'll probably attack with weak slashes that will piss the man off. To be fair, even a small blade can cause a ton of damage on a slash when you consider adrenaline and the other person moving into the blade.
It doesn't have the mass to be a proper striking weapon. A hardwood cudgel will fuck you shit up, but a light baton usually doesn't have enough whack for that. It has its uses in law enforcement but its not the weapon of choice when being mugged
>>28904672 am i the only person in the world that does not care about militarized police? >MRAPs literally not spooky at all, just a bigass armored car that wouldve been sold for scrap. A completely defensive tool >plate carriers Plate carriers are another defence tool that are military hand me downs, saving money >M4s Anyone on /k/ will say a rifle is the best thing for self defense. I see no problem with cops that have rifles, theyre not clearing houses and shit with them
Honestly, Id rather they all drive around in MRAPs with PCs and rifles, then I would know who the cops are. I have a much bigger problem with unmarked cars then I do with militarized police.
>>28905071 No, people are taught to avoid bone and joint strikes because intermediate weapons are a shit idea, from a liability standpoint. If using it "properly" can kill a man, it's legally the same as the gun, so using it when you don't intend to kill the man is excessive force.
Batons, cudgels, etc are used with periphery limb strikes and soft tissue blows in order to disarm otherwise nonthreatening peeps who refuse to drop the screwdriver/needle/bottle of Mad Dog, and for purposes of pain compliance in a physical altercation.
Collapsible batons are shit for knocking a guy out because they lack mass. But that's fine, because they AREN'T for knocking a guy out. If you are huge and he has a soft head, you might manage it, but mostly you'll just split him open, like in the webm.
>>28905993 I agree, to a point. The MRAP is problematic because they could buy a new real SWAT van every year for what it costs to maintain it properly, and dressing them up like soldiers can affect their thinking, I've seen that in person.
They should be required to wear blue; tan, green, and black are not so good for that reason.
>>28906136 camo is one thing, but hand me down hardware isnt a problem for me. Never considered the maintenance cost of the trucks, but if the gov restricts transfers from military to police, the police will just buy the shit new, costing much more money. And I know there is idle maintenance, but its not like these things are out patrolling
>>28906192 MRAPs are maintenance nightmares. There's a reason why the Army is trying to get rid of every single one by 2017.
My local police department was looking at them, thankfully they listened to my motorpool buddy.
Their annual 0 mile maintenance is over $20 grand, you put 10,000 miles on the thing, you'll spend $100g unless you want it to fall apart. You can buy a SWAT van from a department dumb enough to take the free MRAP, and put a new engine and transmission in it for less than just parking an MRAP in a shed and maintaining it will cost you.
>>28905923 Maces were twice or even three times heavier than a baton so... way more destructive. Flanged mace and such had ends that were much better designed for causing injuries and "biting" on armor. The metal knob of a baton is designed to fit, not especially to maximize the wounding potential, it's just a knob, it's plenty enough, but a flanged mace would most certainly be much much more dangerous.
And for the morningstar, you'd have to give a reasonable reason as to why you have one in the first place...
>>28904056 I own one for back-up in car, or on belt w/ASP scabbard. Get training to lessen chance of legal doom if you use it. Its primary use: against large muscle masses, not head/neck. Get training!
>>28903149 >Who makes a good one? Several companies make good ones. ASP is a good one but there are some better designs out now. Check out cop sites, their about the only ones who really use them.
>Do you carry one? Keep a midsized ASP in the car to play with and knock out a window if I needed to.
When I first got it a manlet I worked with thought it would be the shit for carrying around his college, which is in a bad area. His GF's dad was a cop and gave him some good advice: If you pull a baton on someone they're gonna take it away from you and shove it somewhere you don't want it shoved.
>>28905993 >theyre not clearing houses and shit with them You're right, they're not. They're inappropriately shooting people with them.
Since the Hollywood bank robbery every cop thinks he's the first line of defense against an automatic-wielding drugged-out psychopath. Except that it's never happened again, not once. Now every cruiser in the country has either an automatic M4 thanks to surplus and grants, or else a regular semi-auto AR variant. And because the rifles are there, they are a constant reminder of WHY they are there, which gets cops amped up enough to induce conflict from easily escapable situations.
In this video, the cop behind the car fires his tazer, possibly ending this minor confrontation. The guy with the rifle, a panicky little coward with his finger tight on the trigger, startles at the tazer's pop, and fires a round into the suspect, killing him. If he didn't have the rifle, or if he didn't have that unjustified cowardly fear in him, he would not have shot. The suspect was a scumbag and won't be missed, but this typifies modern police confrontation. It's not even a racial issue as BLM fuckwits would have you believe.
Why? Because police can't talk their way out of a situation anymore. They're not trained to. They're trained to walk brazenly in, instigate a confrontation and shoot, and are supported 100% by police and are lauded by the public as heroes. The result is abhorrent behavior, sanctioned and rewarded by police departments. Shoot a guy who posed a moderate threat and get paid vacation for two months? Fuck year! Thanks, unions! Yes I will deliver a few words on television over applause.
I can't remember the last dirty police shooting that resulted even in termination of employment, let alone criminal action against the officer for murder.
>>28906105 I always understood that a police officer could use his baton in lieu of closed-hand strikes. Force plus one and all. It just didn't happen very often since it was intermediate and things either escalated or ended quickly.
>>28904115 This anon here >>28904350 is right. You won't really be able to get your girlfriend to defend herself unless something actually happens to her. So what you need to do is pretend rape her, using a mask and clothing to cover yourself up and pretend to be a stranger. After that she will most definitely want to have the means to defend herself, which could potentially save her life.
>>28906704 All armored vehicles take more maintenance than a regular truck or whatever, but MRAPs are built using off the shelf parts to keep costs down, and are designed to fall apart when attacked in order to prevent crew injury, so they are especially awful.
>>28912074 Well I wouldn't go so far as to say they are useless, because some folk do respond to pain compliance in a fight, they aren't super useful because they aren't as effective as a closed hand for striking, in terms of knockout power, and they are easy to disarm once the distance is closed.
I've seen /fit/ 200 lb cops rek a dude's face with a baton (hit him right in the teeth), and get the baton taken away by the bleeding meth head, ending up trying to turtle while the perp straddled his chest and beat the shit out of him until the second cop tazed the tweaker.
Meth man might have needed dental surgery, but that big dumb cop got at least one concussion in trade, and would have had to let the perp hit his face a bunch more if he wanted to try for his gun. And that might have resulted in a KO, and a crippling beating, instead of a successful draw and defense.
Why do you think the rapier and longsword won out over all the other designs? read some old dueling manuals, this is common sense and conventional wisdom.Sure, you're going to slash away at someone but that's only to set up the thrust.
all the "slashing cultures" are just primitive tribes and shit. If you have a sword and you want someone to die, you stab them with it.
and before you go full weeb on me, Miyamoto Musashi's favorite technique was called "Stabbing the Face"
>>28904237 Depends on who makes it. I've run across a few in the 2.5-3lb range that are filled with either lead dust or small lead birdshot, and you'd better believe your sweet ass you can break an arm or lower leg with one without swinging for the fences with it. Not to mention shatter skulls, destroy hands/fingers, and break ribs.
Basically imagine choking halfway up a hand sledge then hitting them with the side of it.
>>28903149 So what's everyone's opinion on walking sticks, canes, shillelaghs, and other "totally not a weapon even though it's 99% similar to a medieval mace" objects (weapons)?
I need a cane thanks to a severe knee injury and botched surgery so I went out and bought a hickory-shafted, brass-headed cane. Cane head is shaped like a duck's head and is pretty fucking pointy, and the brass head weighs over 2lbs. Pretty sure I could drive that through someone's rib cage even if they were wearing anything short of rifle plates.
>>28905993 >MRAPs not spooky at all Till one rolls down your street with some dude manning a mounted .50 or they buy CROWS retrofits for them in 10 years when all the Bradley parts go up for auction. >plate carriers strictly defense I don't have a problem with police using them with civilian-tier plates in places where it is both legal and reasonable to assume the populace at large has them. In places banning their use or in conjunction with ESAPI/XSAPI plates I do not. Civilians in most states have the legal right to retaliate with lethal force against police willfully/negligently abusing their authority, and being effectively immune to small arms fire is a de facto negation of that right. >hurr rifle is best thing for self defense Except they're almost exclusively used in an offensive and intentionally oppressive role, brought out for entirely inappropriate reasons (routine traffic stops, serving warrants for nonviolent nonfelony crimes, shooting contained/corraled pets), are select fire but post-'86 and therefor have no direct civilian equivalent, and are generally abused. Most people hold the belief police, who are civilians, should not have access to weapons or equipment those they police do not. Since the M4 is not civilian legal nor really has a civilian counterpart they should not have them. Many also hold the belief that police, who are civilians, should not have explosives or select-fire weapons at all, chiefly because they are abused regularly.
hitting someone with a big heavy stick is usually pretty effective, YMMV. Shillelaghs and hammer canes and shit are weapons and everyone knows it, but you can beat the shit out of someone with a standard medical issue laminated cripplestick.
if you want to spice it up look into loaded canes, but don't get caught, that turns your walking stick into a felony weapon
>>28914141 >Shillelaghs and hammer canes and shit are weapons and everyone knows it But I can still take it on international airline flights. Which is awesome. Source: Flew from Atlanta to London with my duck-cane and only got got a couple knowing winks from a couple old british gentlemen with similar canes.
>>28913849 I have a pocket model for bouncing and a beltsized and they are both capable of turning your muscles into jelly on impact. either one is a killer if you use it on the head at the right spot. back of the hand and upper arm and clavicle are usually the best spots for me, it's a eyewatering amount of pain
>>28903181 Fucking deplorable police work. I love when criminal scum get beat up, tased, taken to the ground and all that manner of good shit just as much as the next guy, but really? Suspect was facing away from him, did not reach for anything and posed little threat to the officers. Sure, he wasn't being 100% cooperative but the escalation of force went from "Put your hands behind your back." to JOOOOOOHN CENA in about 2 seconds. Then, he gets tased for his trouble when he is trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and why he just got RKO'd.
These cueball fuck sticks are doing nothing to help their reputation, and they suck at their job.
>>28914271 I thought it was all good until the major ass-beating at the end with the ASP. The taser is come jurisdictions is on the continuum just above verbal commands, but not like that matters since the officers already went to soft hand technique. The proper way to deal with someone like that is two officers, one on torso, the other on legs. Maybe a light rack of the kneecap with a baton if the guy is actively resisting with an officer on the torso.
>>28913773 Complete and total bullshit. Longswords cut fine and all of the extant systems teach cutting as well as thrusting... and you conveniently ignore the existence and popularity of sabres, long after the rapier went out of fashion.
>>28913773 The "slashing cultures" bias exists because people don't wear much clothing in those areas. Cutting with a knife is way more effective when you don't have to get through multiple layers of thick clothing.
Contrast with the rondel and its popularity in the Middle Ages... vis-a-vis the European Little Ice Age.
>>28913773 >Miyamoto Musashi's favorite technique was called "Stabbing the Face" You seriously misread him if you think he had a favorite technique. He talks about stabbing the face for breaking stalemate or to induce stupid reaction in the opponent, it's not a "favorite technique" at all, it's just... well one technique among the necessary many.
As a security guard who carries them and has used one before, I can tell you with a fair degree of confidence that tasers or aerosols are far better self-defense tools. If I try to fight someone much more competent than me, he's unarmed and I'm armed with my baton, I'm still likely to get ruined.
>>28913773 Dude, pain compliance and motor dysfunction are different. Pain compliance is the use of pressure points and similar techniques. A baton's primary target is the common peroneal, which, if applied correctly, causes a minor shutdown of the leg that's struck. That's not pain compliance. I'd also say it's not the best choice if you aren't a cop and therefore don't have a bunch of SJWs shrieking at you for defending yourself. If someone's trying to kill you, hit them in the side of the neck with it.
>>28917754 Well of course it always depends on the target your weapon is "set to". Surely and anti-tank spear would rekt anyone, hell, let's go further, a tank shell would kill anyone with a direct hit. Yet is the anti-tank spear a 100% guarantee one-hit-kill on every tanks of the era ? I doubt it.
Now I'm picturing an honorabulu duel between two guys with anti-tank spears... ty
>>28918286 >I just don't know whst else to say. you deny reality and the accrued wisdom of the ages with glee. enjoy stupidity The cut vs thrust debate was never really over, there were some country preferences, but to say that it has to do with "wisdom" or "reality" is ridiculous. Why would the french would prefer the thrust while the english rather favored the cut during the end of the XVIIIth c. if one was so superior to the other ? The japanese relied heavily on cuts, most if not all longsword system relied more on the cut than on the thrust, backswords and sideswords relied more on cuts than thrusts as well. You're the one who has no arguments and simply spout "reality" and "old wisdom" without checking what the old wisdom actually say. Hell even during the french smallsword heyday, many masters said to practice the cut and not only the thrust.
>>28905993 Not the only reason, but a big reason why MRAPS are controversial is that they get them through surplus programs for pennies on the dollar. It looks good on paper until the bean counters realize that they just bought an expensive military combat vehicle and the military, at least in comparison to buttfucksville PD, does not give a single fuck about maintenance costs.
At the end of the day, you've got this giant pile of slowly decaying steel in your motor pool that you can't possibly make enough use out of to justify the upkeep, softly whispering in your mind "use me in wildly innappropriate ways or else even the stupidest people will find out you're a taxpayer money wasting idiot."
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