So two days ago I finally got my gun carry permit and I decided now that I can legally carry my gun around that I'd go to the range that my family has belonged to for three years, only to be kicked off and banned from returning because I didn't have my Dad with me (the technical holder of our families membership) by one of the rudest, angriest old men I have ever met.
>So be me
>just got off work 3 and finally had free time so I could actually go to the range
>get home, ask my Dad if he wants to go up, he says no since he's feeling sick
>just says go up by yourself since you have your gun licence
>get there at 4:40 because i wanted to shower, walk my dog, eat, ect. ect. before i went up
>set my shit up at the trap range
>pull out my recently purchased Benelli Ethos
>start shooting my pigeons
>after about 30 minutes or so this old fuck starts yelling at me from the club house through his megaphone that the range is closed and I have to leave NOW
>pack my shit up
>about to sign out
>he comes down stairs, and starts questioning the shit out of me
>"Don't you know the range closes 30 minutes before sunset!", "Are you even a member here", "YOU'RE DAD IS THE MEMBER!?", "Thats against the rules, he cant just give you his key card!", "Whats the card number!?", "This WILL be brought up at the next committee meeting!", "You are banned from coming here again, if I see you again you will be considered trespassing, do you understand?!"
>mean while I just politely nod and answer all his questions
>say I'm sorry and leave
The bullshit part is I've never seen him before, he's not the care taker, hes not the president/vice president of the club so what fucking authority does that ugly cunt have that he can ban me?
Old pathetic, lonely fucks like him are what I think drives kids my age away from wanting to join shooting clubs. He was the first member I've ever seen that perfectly fit the stereotype liberals use for angry, irrational, racist, gun nut fucks.
First off your fired up because of what happened. Be calm tell your old man what happened, and since it sounds like you know all the big wigs of the club tell them what happened. But remember be calm don't make yourself look like that guy.
I live near the Chicago area and let me tell you. It sucks up here. I live in a town that has a gun ownership rate of 5%. I cant even browse gun stuff in public without getting some sort of comment of "you don't need that" bullshit. I plan to move out sometime soon; however, I totally agree with you that we need to send these pussies to battle.
I was ringing up some ammo for two young guys, and some old fudd behind them held up his hands and (jokingly) asked them not to shoot him
They were buying an overpriced nammo can of 223
I'm a CCW permit holder, mil veteran, and old fag. An indoor range I tried to go to wouldn't let me shoot because I was alone. No shit they don't let males shoot alone as walk-ins. You must have another person with you or be a female to shoot alone without buying their overpriced membership. It's the dumbest fucking policy I've seen in my life and I've made no attempt to go back there since. If I come in with my own firearms to shoot, then what is the problem? They probably have that policy to stop people from offing them self but if I have my own guns then how does that protect me at all? Also what makes a female any less susceptible to suicide than a male? I'm buying some property this summer and hopefully I'll be able to move to live on it with-in the next two years. Fucking ranges just piss me of honestly, the range I've been a member to for 7 years has been slowly going down hill to the point I barely go anymore. Probably won't renew my membership next year.
I can luckily just shoot in the back off my house since the farmers that own the property surrounding us are chill af and let me shoot as long as I call and tell them I'm going up. The only benefit this range had was it had trap houses that I have to shoot skeet from during competitions. And I know that I was in the wrong, but holy fuck this guy was an asshole. He could have just given me a warning or something, but nope, he needs to flex whatever power the club gave him to compensate for his small wrinkly dick.
I work for the state of maryland checking compliance for these sort of things and this is actually a civil rights violation.
You cannot be denied services based on your sexual orientation, race, religious affiliation, ethnic, or gender identity.
They would get fucked if you brought this to the state's attention. Like super fucked.
Boomers created the world we live in, then indoctrinated millenials into their retarded way of life as if it was ever sustainable, or even ok. Dumb millenials we're bread to be dumb, but Boomers are just evil. Fortunately there are exceptions in both camps
They probably think you're some PTSD driven private Pyle type just waiting to kill someone. Our country is scared of disenfranchised males that they harrass on the daily. They don't want you to have practice unless you seem like a functioning part of society. Especially as a vet (and possibly white, although I don't know you). You are literally the scariest thing in the world to them. Some PTSD driven psychotic lunatic waiting to hunt down Charlie at night. Thanks for your service, sorry people suck.
Why the fuck are you morons so quick to attribute a single encounter to society in general?
Look at how many more gun owners there are, now many more states are CC/OC compared to the 60's and 70's, how crime overall is falling.
Stop being such a reactionary fucking cretin.
Parroting your parent's/friends ideology without really know what it means.
this kind of liberalism is acceptable on grounds of ignorance and naive good intentions
this kind of liberalism is indicative of developmental disorders, or being completely disconnected with reality (hence trust fund and celeb liberalz), or straight up posturing because while consciously disagreeing (e.g. if you're the only conservative in a liberal town, it's probably better to pretend to play around)
Things like that is why I voted Obama twice and as well voted for Hillary Clinton and as well support gun control groups just so I can see old fuckers like that asshole get angry and lose his guns and along with everyone else that would lose their guns.
Do I actually support guns being restricted?
No but I do support seeing these angry gun owners that are assholes get their guns taken away and destroyed and while they are sad I get to go up and rub it in their own faces on hoe if they just been nice and not a jerk then maybe they wouldn't lose their guns.
Too bad because my next tax returns will be sent off to the mother demand action group and the IRS.
Y'all are just the same.
Bitter old assholes well enjoy your little toy while you can dipshits hahahaha.
Yep. The only reason I was conservative when I was younger was because I was into guns and had relatively conservative parents.
I'm 27 and had the time to develop my own political views, just stayed pretty conservative. It's amazing how many people in their late 20's are still drooling liberals, the type that defend the dems regardless of what they do, and are incredibly ill-informed.
I like how people only read the thread title and respond thinking it's a question.
But yeah, send a complaint to the old fuck's bosses. I'm sure you're not the only one who's been put off by him.
Does everybody think vets are Rambo again?
When I have to go against the club committee to defend myself this was actually going to be the main part of my argument. Having people in charge like that man are whats causing people to not be involved in the gun community and eventually being exclusive irrational rule abiding shits is what is going to make so few people want to defend guns that there will be barely any resistance when they finally try to ban guns
i would go with talking about everything you did "right" aka you didnt do anything wrong.
better to defend your position rather than attack others, thats the mature thing to do. it's unlikely they'll fire this old fucker anyways.
If one old fuck is all it takes to cause you to be a liberal pussy, you were already a liberal pussy to begin with, you just didn't know it. Ask your dad to go in with you and confront the guy about it if you feel wronged and your dad agrees. If the old fuck was right but overreacted, write a letter of apology, and ask for a reconsideration, have your dad hand it to someone personally.
you care more about spiting some people that will die long before you than you do about your own rights?
>he hurt my feelings so i'll make sure nobody can have fun
that's some childish shit.
grow the fuck up.
What can I say?
If your a responsible gun owner that isn't an old bitter asshole then congrats because enjoy your toys because you won't have them because your all nothing but mean old assholes.
It's alot more entertaining to watch people lose their guns and watch them be thrown into the furnace all because they refused to be a little nicer and polite to younger people well this is what you get in return for being a rude jerk.
When theire is an action there is a reaction.
Honestly, even if it was a violation of the rules, it's a reasonable misunderstanding that only happened once. I don't see how the club committee could be super punishing about it.
Yes but not at the level that requires drafting to be mandatory. As a fellow Generation Z fag, one way is to get robbed by the very Dindu they have been in support of for years. Only issue is that people have different reactions for it.
When I was younger, I was a democrat, hell I actually went door to door for Kerry. If anything, I was a social lib/fiscal con, but since basically things were starting to slide with dubya after the fantastic times we had with Clinton (Ironically, I voted for McCain over Bush in the primaries, and for Gore v Bush in the actual. but W is now probably one of my favorite presidents ever) I was more on the blue side.
I haven't changed at all since then when I think about it, "social liberalism " did.
The "social liberalism" I believe(d) in is the freedom to do whatever you want as long as you take responsibility for it.
The NewSpeak literal glorification of degeneracy, apologeticism and revisionism it is today is fucking garbage. The "progressive" ideas of yesterday had become the dogma of today. It's a religion-like opiate for the reprobate masses. "Hey freaks and fuckups! we're all about freaks and fuckups! and it's *those guys'* fault! Come join us!"
I was told that once while looking at ammo in a sporting goods store by some stranger. I told him
>maybe not, but you really need to mind your fucking business
sometimes its just worth it to be an asshole
>The NewSpeak literal glorification of degeneracy, apologeticism and revisionism it is today is fucking garbage. The "progressive" ideas of yesterday had become the dogma of today. It's a religion-like opiate for the reprobate masses. "Hey freaks and fuckups! we're all about freaks and fuckups! and it's *those guys'* fault! Come join us!"
oddly poignant, though you could say that about every generation when they were in their 20's i guess
>omg some guy at the gun range was a cunt to me
>fuck conservatives, obama ackbar
take your fucking meds son
Sometimes old people are cunts, middle aged and young people too. Generalizing against an entire group because of the actions of one person is
B. not very nice
I'm actually taking politics in college right now and plan on using the skills from there to take part in one of the well known political groups like the democratic party or the liberal party
I enjoy the fact that guns will be taken away from assholes all because you choosed to be a bitter old hateful person that has to bark down on other people because they are younger well trough shit because you won't get to keep your stupid garand or your 1911 anymore because it's going into the dumpster.
Probably because the military is downsizing?
Woah, wow. Turns out were pretty much hitting 100% peace time as Afghanistan is just a deployment of kicking rocks and only SOF and key personnel are going to Iraq and wherever.
Boomers were pussies, end of fucking story.
That's a very very fair point. We are all children, young adults, middle aged, and old men at fixed points in our lifetimes (i.e. the 90s (my personal favorite decade) would have looked very very different to 20 year old versus 50 year old eyes) and do not have the benefit of comparison (can't look at today's politics through eyes other than your own)
I wouldn't be surprised if our great grandchildren think of us as savages.
But by god, as long as we're still alive we have the right to voice our point of view, and I think that should be the point of the democracy right? we'll go with what the most agree on?
I don't really know where I'm going with this at this point I'm just kind of venting/rambling.
I really really hope the next election doesn't come down to Hillary/Trump. I'll fuckin write in Nader. (in all seriousness I'll probably vote trump in that situation) but like good lord, I mean trump is a fucking clownshoe. I think he's funny and I like the guy, but come on. He's not a serious president. He's the logical equal and opposite reaction to Obama as the "gimmickier" gimmick to end all gimmicks, but at this point he seems better than the Dems have gone even lower with barrel scraping and dynasty building and feeding hysteria. I really hope Hillary doesn't win.
We need a real libertarian option. The "silent" majority needs to step up over the loud bickering twats, this may just be naive faith on my part, but I think "most people" are not retarded. But I guess until then the GOP beats the alternative.
College is a strong reinforcement of neoliberal values, as the staff are usually career academics with little real-world experience.
Combine that with the naivete of inbound college kids, and you get "professor told me that communism means the government pays for my iPhone! Down with capitalism!"
Turkey is just suffering from a little bit of Erdoganitis, it should clear up over the next decade.
China is properly fucked up, taking territory that they have no justifiable claim to, and basically needs to be beaten into submission and Balkanised.
As China changes from a manufacturing to a consumer-based society, sweatshop work is going to move to other areas, so we'll finally have the freedom to fuck with them for the first time in thirty years.
You can't wet your pants every time a separatist movement gains territory.
This is the third world, there are two overwhelmingly powerful factors.
The almighty dollar, and ethnic loyalties, in that order.
The Northern Alliance (now the government in Kabul) has stuck around because the Tajik and Uzbek and so on in the north don't want to be bitches for a bunch of fundamentalist Muslim Pashtuns, and because the US gives money to the Karzai government, which in turns makes the ANA and ANP one of the more profitable jobs for that population.
Conversely, the Taliban is still around because of ISI/Gulf State Wahhabi money, and because the Pashtun in the south of the country don't trust the central government. Plus there's a shitload of Pashtun on the other side of the border raised in Madrassas with Saudi petrobucks, and they just casually waltz through the Khyber pass to go start trouble.
The Taliban isn't going away. The Northern Alliance isn't going away.
The situation in Iraq is quite similar.
Yeah those guys need a good beating, especially when they're colonizing Africa through economic methods by sending their companies to be established and then send their workers and their famillies to set up residence
Gun store workers and range employees and the like are always the most conceited hard assed faggots in the world. God I fucking hate these queers, they give all gun enthusiasts a bad name.
You seem lost. This is >>>/k/, not >>>/pol/
I'm not worried about that, I'm just providing a point
Anon, I don't think that means peace at all. The reason why the DoD is downsizing IIRC, is that they're reducing the size of infantry while investing in developing/maintaining technologies. The moment we're at peace is the moment we stop attending proxy wars and putting our noses in political agendas we have no business in (Like Syria)
More like don't reproduce
Yeah, you're about as believable as a gay bug hunter.
Arguing about boomers and calling OP a fag?
Anyway, now that I think about it, there isn't a third world conflict on the planet you can't understand with some combination of the money/ethnicity thing.
Without a functional state, that's the only meaningful form of social complexity people have access to.
My local gun range has a two person rule for rental guns, had about 6 suicides before that policy was implemented. No rules about your own weapon though, I guess they figure if you wanted to, you would off yourself in the privacy of your home.
I agree that it sounds like an overreaction, but I wasn't there and have little experience with gun clubs. I am a member at several ranges, one of which calls itself a club, but I just use it as another range, and everyone still has to check in before they get range time. If the committee stands by the ban, maybe they have a strict rule about non-members, and a kid being a non-member and shooting too far into twilight could be a sticking point for them, but that would only slip by if they don't have a check-in policy. I would still think that a letter of apology and a member present as an advocate could help. Furthermore, OPs dad should have been aware of any non-member issues and steered OP away from it in the first place or make his case to them. If the worst possible outcome is realized for OP, I would say that learning from it and not getting soured on guns altogether would be the best way to look at it.
I think our policy with ISIS is quite rational.
If we committed to a full scale ground war, it'd probably cost hundreds of billions of dollars over the long term.
If we did nothing, the snackbars might have the time and stability to pose a threat outside the region.
The best thing to do is to continue bombing ISIS simply so that their leadership experiences attrition.
If it helps the Iraqi government to recover territory, or puts the FSA in a stronger position relative to Assad, that's a good outcome too.
>but they only hate us because we interfere
As much as I hate resorting to this explanation, they aren't rational, and nothing we can do will satisfy them.
I hate saying this, because it's been bandied around as "those terrorists are crazy" when often, groups like the IRA, the ETA, and so on have been quite rational and amenable to peace.
But it's the Islamic State.
They are unlikely to react to a gesture of goodwill on the part of the West.
I'm OP and I wasn't the one who started typing in all caps. Honestly I don't what people are talking about in this thread since it was pretty unanimous that this guy over reacted
This experience isnt going to make me stop shooting guns. I've just never had any problems at this club and all the committee heads are incredibly nice and I'm pretty well known at the club since I've won plenty of competitions there. I just wished he was a little less of a douche when kicking me off.
I wish some supreme court lawsuit fucks all the HOAs bullshit and drop their yuppie housing enclaves' prices.
Boom two problems solved, rampant housing inflation and unofficial groups of libtards pressing their urbanizing agenda on the rest of us.
>wants the government to get out of our lives
>yeah, let's let the government force kids into the service
Get out statist scum, conscription is the antithesis of American freedom
all rights shall not be infringed fucker, not just the second
>But remember be calm don't make yourself look like that guy.
Had the same shit happen to me.
>Go to Titusville Rifle and Pistol club
>Take my AR, PTR, and Mosin
>Shooting next to dude who is bench shooting a couple different things, looks like Dale Gribble
>Start talking, offer to let him shoot my AR, breddy fun day
>The next day, take my youngest brother and my best friend
>Bring my Tantal, SGL, and Mini14
>Old fuddy duddy bench shooting his Garand at 1 round per five minutes
>Starts talking to RSO like we can't hear him "Why are they shooting standing instead of from the bench" "They are idiots thinking they need those salt clips" etc.
>Starts talking about how when he was in the Army and they taught target shooting like I'm some kind of asshole redneck spergs out aboutu salt clips and how he only needs to see me coming from a mile away in SHTF situation
>Fucker is using a god damned walker and looks like a hard fart would turn his ass into dust talking about how he's going to operate when SHTF
He didn't respond well when I told him about how when I was in the Army they taught us practical shooting.
> war stops degeneracy
> drug abuse
> butt stuff
> BUTT STUFF
Nigger exactly what moral high ground are you trying to take here?
>occupy someone's factory, aka their own private land
>refuse to leave
>owner of land can no longer use it
>sit in there for days with guns and shit
>he finally is forced to use force to evict you from his personal property
>Union cunts fight back instead of leaving
>WAAAHHH MUH CORPURASHIONSSSS
>tfw go to college
>tfw get a conservative US History teacher
>we're going to spend most of the time on wars
>talk to him all the time
>talk about firearms
>invites me over to see his personal firearm collection and WWII jeep
There's still hope.
> occupy someone's wildlife preserve, aka the property of We the People
> refuse to leave
> the owners of the land can no longer use it
> sit in there for days with guns and shit
> they are finally forced to use force to evict you from the People's property
> militia cunts surrender like dogs
> WAHHHHH MUH LIBRULS
Faggot. At least the unions had stones.
>take money to pay for useless federal building
>people paying for building occupy it
>using "the people" buzzword
The people is nothing more than a collection of individuals, respect the individual you respect the "people".
Get out of here brainwashed leftist faggot.
> useless federal building
That's a matter of opinion.
> people paying for building occupy it
The bundy family ain't paying for shit, fagmotron. They're a million dollars behind in taxes and land usage fees. They're mooching parasite pigfuckers and Ayn Rand would shit in their shoes.
> using the people as a buzzword
Federal land belongs to the people. It is maintained by federal taxes and is open to taxpayers. Preventing taxpayers from using it is literally no different than preventing a private citizen from using their private property.
> muh rugged individualism
A whole bunch of individuals paid for that wildlife refuge, and a whole bunch of individuals were denied the chance to use that facility. Can't you just be wrong in peace?
>a matter of opinion
My opinion holds no weight yet I'm forced to pay for it?
>literally no different
It literally is different you dickfaced retard, the private citizen pays nothing for the factory nor are they forced to, everyone is forced to pay for federal shit, including occupiers.
I don't know why you collectivist cucks think you're going to win any arguments, you can only last on echo chambers like Reddit.
You don't have to pay for it. Get the fuck out.
> the private citizen pays nothing for the factory
Then it's not THEIR FUCKING PROPERTY, is it dickmouth?
We're all shareholders in the US government. You don't have to like all the decisions the board of directors make. You do have to abide by them if you want to persist in this organization.
> everyone is forced to pay for federal shit
Once again, you don't like America? You can get the fuck out. You sho nuff don't mind using the federally-funded internet, or benefiting from Federally-funded military hegemony.
If you're gonna make the argument that workers don't have to deal with shitty conditions because they can just quit, then you have to apply that same logic to beneficiaries of the United States Government. You don't like it? Mexico's hiring.
Are you completely ignorant of the history of near criminal shenanigans and union breaking, especially with regards to coal mining, in the US?
Of course you'd be perfectly fine with getting paid in company scrip which could only be used at company stores with high prices and housing which you are leasing from the company, working in extremely lethal conditions.
You'd never have a negative thing to say about that.
>hurr just leave
This argument is so fucking sad and pathetic.
I can't quit the us government and keep my land here you fucktard. Land that I paid for and own, stuff that I own. Go fucking die collectivist shitbag.
>> muh rugged individualism
Which is hilarious when they got BTFO within two weeks because they didn't bring any fucking supplies.
And then openly crying on video when they got sent boxes of dildoes, glitter, and candy dildoes.
"Survivalists" my fucking ass.
>Here come the Yuropoors
Nah negro, 100% 'Merican, from the South, and a veteran.
I've done more for national security and to enforce the foreign policy of the US than some gay ass Bundy militia LARPer chucklefucks lying about their military service.
I can't just quit a business and still keep my stock in it. Stock that I paid for, stock that I own. Go fucking die, corporate bootlick.
You are part of the United States. If you don't like the direction this organization is going, you have the same opt-out option that everyone else has. You don't want to make sacrifices? Then suck it up.
Exact. Same. Logic.
Yurp is a beneficiary of our military spending. If we weren't shouldering so much of NATO's burden vis a vis global military hegemony, we could afford to fund public programs, fix our fucking highways, and so on.
Don't think, just because I'm not a military-industrialist dog, that I'm some kind of Eurotrash. Those fucks smoke their faggy cigarettes and sneer at us, but they thank their shitty overbearing gods at night that we're here.
Doesn't mean they're wrong about everything.
You didn't pay for anything in that business faggot, just like how the union workers didn't own the factory.
They got their wages and their contract was honored.
I can't "opt out" of the us you fucking mongoloid, the people that should leave are the people like you who clearly love collectivism and government, go fucking move to literally anywhere in Europe you shitbag.
>That explains the bootlicking shit.
>Arguing that one should lick the boots of the corporate Jew
>Unironically calls someone else a boot licker.
Stay mad you LARPing faggot. Maybe you can take over the next unoccupied nature reserve visitor center on Federal land so you can run out of food and water a week in and then cry when you get bombarded with packages of dildoes and dick candy.
Old people at the range are the fucking worse. I go to a private, members only range with no RSO and its not really crowded ever, so everyone just agrees when to go cold and all that. Its almost always
>old guy shooting a bolt action or black power rifle, taking 5 minutes between shots
>Father taking his son/daughter shooting
>Young guy teaching his gf/wife to shoot
The last two are almost always awesome types of people, but the old guys are fucking dicks. Any time I have my AR and shoot rapidly I get dirty looks. Whenever I talk to them they always call me "sport" or "buddy" all condescending-like, like Doctor Kelso on Scrubs.
>Be shooting at range
>Literally me and one other person, an old guy shooting something that uses blackpower cartridges
>He shoots once, then reloads his cartridge at a reloading bench he set up
>I'd like to go change out my target, so as he's reloading I walk down to his end
>He looks at me as I'm walking towards him
>There's no other reason for me to be walking that way, he has to know I'm wanting to talk to him
>He sits down anyways and lines up his shot
>Now I'm awkwardly standing there while I'm waiting for him to shoot so I can tell him I'd like to go cold
>He looks down his sights for like 10 seconds, and then flinches like I just appeared there out of thin air
>Says some bullshit about how rude it was for me to "sneak up on him"
>Spaghetti falls out of my pockets as I explain that I'd like to change my target out
>He says he's just going to leave, and makes a big fuss as he's packing up
From now on I just make the longer drive to the Hoosier National Forest and just shoot innawoods
Old guys that work in gun stores are like that too. I'll go in and never once has anyone come up to me and ask if they can help me find anything, but when I'm with my dad, someone always comes up to us. The old guy working the register at Cabelas also wouldn't let me buy any 5.56x45 because I was under 21 at the time, and he thought it was pistol ammo
>I can't "opt out" of the us you fucking mongoloid
You certainly can my friend!
You can sell all real estate and belongings that can't be imported into your destination state, and then formally renounce your US citizenship.
>muh Jew buzzwords
You literally fought for kikes you dumb fucking faggot
how typical of a brainwashed fucking military cuck to be a total fucking moron.
You people are fucking useless logs of shit and I wish you'd all fucking stop "protecting muh freedum" I don't want it anymore and I don't want to pay for you shitty fucking leeches.
> they got their wages and their contract was honored
You got your free education and your vote and your contract was honored
> I can't "opt out"
Sure can. I hear Somalia's nice this time of year. No overbearing fed, no BLM. I bet you'll enjoy it!
> I can't move out. You should move out.
Are you literally retarded?
>sell all private things you payed for because the government is holding you hostage!
Fantastic fucking idea faggot!
Here's my counter offer!
Leave my fucking country and leave me the fuck alone.
You want collectivism? You want nanny statism? GO TO FUCKING ANYWHERE ELSE BESIDES AMERICA
I didn't get my education dipshit. Stop making assumptions.
Paid for by involuntary taxation isn't free.
Fucking kek you are literally the stupid faggot liberal stereotype.
>how typical of a brainwashed fucking military cuck to be a total fucking moron.
>You people are fucking useless logs of shit and I wish you'd all fucking stop "protecting muh freedum" I don't want it anymore and I don't want to pay for you shitty fucking leeches.
Lol that's a good one. I bet you intend to provide for the national defense with your citizen militia with a mish mash of fudd durr guns and shitty discount ARs, and you'll use your Memebook page to replace the intelligence apparatus while you're at it.
I bet you could even just use your mom as a substitute for the DoS! She can bring you some dank tendies and tots to provide logistical support to your new DoD.
>Spot the "sovereign citizen"
But you can formally renounce your US citizenship. It costs money, and it's a long involved process because the .gov wants to make sure it's what you really want.
If you don't have another citizenship then you essentially become stateless.
Contrary to the opinion of those SC cock smears it doesn't give you any special powers nor do you get to "cash out" your "corporate identity" or whatever other bullshit they believe.
>Leave my fucking country and leave me the fuck alone.
Nah, it's a little bit more my country than yours. But that's the nature of the free rider problem.
>You want collectivism? You want nanny statism? GO TO FUCKING ANYWHERE ELSE BESIDES AMERICA
I didn't say I wanted collectivism, or a nanny state.
I pointed out your ignorance of US history you damn mongoloid.
>>They got their wages and their contract was honored.
>I know nothing about US labor history: the post
Also consider the political corruption at the time. This was an era where 40% of the Presidential vote was fraudulent. Factory owners were also politicians or directly controlling politicians. How are corporashuns gonna regulate themselves fairly.
Government start wars not people, please take a step back and think about what you're saying here.
If we didn't have forces to protect our global "interests" you think we're just going to have some gigantic force like Russia invade us? For what reason would they? Would they be able to pacify hundreds of millions of armed citizens?
> quit your job because the boss is holding you hostage
Again, you fail to understand that your position mirrors a unionist's position.
You claim that your money is going into a system (against your will) which fails to adequately compensate you for your investment. You claim that you lack the appropriate representation in that system. And you say that those who benefit from that system are doing so unfairly thanks to the sweat of your brow. And since labor is time invested and time is money, your argument is a perfect doppelganger for that of a unionist.
Why do you suck at braining?
>it's my country
Hahah why because you signed your life away to the elite bureaucrat scumbags?
I belong here clearly more than you do, your entire mentality is antithetical to individualism and Liberty.
>I don't want collectivism or a nanny state
That's clearly what you're arguing for idiot.
> I didn't get my education
> paid for by involuntary taxation isn't free
paid for by involuntary labor exploitation isn't free either.
> somalia is a golden paradise!
Somalia is just one example of a shithole without an overbearing fed. We've got a neighbor to the South where business is similarly unrestrained by government. Go move to Juarez.
>He was the first member I've ever seen that perfectly fit the stereotype liberals use for angry, irrational, racist, gun nut fucks.
there's a large overlap between xenophobic conservatives and gun ownership, just like there is a large overlap between nu-male SJW and anti-gun politics
Because we're not okay with dick head conservatives and your encounter at the range sums up the mentality of a hard core conservative quite well.
I'm pretty liberal about most things, but conservative about others. I make up my own mind about the issues and don't rely on any party line to tell me what to believe. I find the old school conservatives to be the worst when it comes to spewing utter nonsense.
I am a hasguns, I do shoot, I do CCW and I will be voting for Bernie
>taking away individuals rights for the "people" is a good thing
>social programs and "free" shit is fine just tax people for it
Everything you said was collectivist and nanny state.
> I didn't go to a public school
Still drove there on public streets, asshole.
> labor exploitation doesn't real
How you can argue that labor exploitation is a myth but at the same time claim the government is exploiting your tax dollars is... frankly mind-blowing.
Are you actually missing part of your brain, or did you just drink a lot of bleach as a kid?
Not that guy, but most libertarians do tend to be people with relatively low life experience and education.
To provide an argument, it seems unlikely that you can maintain an industrialized society of 300,000,000 people with a high standard of living without international trade, and it seems equally unlikely that you can protect yourself adequately without a reasonable economy.
>government takes my money to put roads everywhere
>places where private transportation could exist
>now nothing else can go there
>HURR U USED PUBLIC ROADSS HURR
holy shit lmao
How fucking stupid are you buddy? You are taking people's money to pay for things they might not want to pay for, that is objectively exploiting that person, labor exploitation is an undefined buzzword you decided to use.
>defending "free" education as a justification to tax and slave people
>defending "free" roads
>justifying occupying other people's personal property with force because of the good of "the people"
Then trip up or something for fuck sake how do you niggers expect me to keep up with this shit?
And if you're against free shit and involuntary taxation then you wouldn't be arguing with me in the first place.
>Then trip up or something for fuck sake how do you niggers expect me to keep up with this shit?
Or you could just not be retarded.
>And if you're against free shit and involuntary taxation then you wouldn't be arguing with me in the first place.
My original contention was due to your ignorance of American fucking history in your pursuit to tongue punch corporate butthole.
Let me guess, US courts aren't legitimate because they have Admiralty Flags instead of legit US "land flags", and they are making money on holding your corporate identity hostage.
But if I buy your book/money making system I can cash out my corporate birth certificate/social security number and be a millionaire.
Well, it seems that having the Soviet Union crush Western Europe and push to the Atlantic would have inhibited our trade relationships with those countries to a significant extent.
As would, for that matter, having Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea subsumed by Chinese influence, or in the case of at least three of these, conquered outright.
For that matter, in 1990, having the government of Saddam Hussein conquer 50% of the world's hydrocarbon energy supply would have probably caused lasting negative consequences for all of global industrial civilization.
There is no realistic scenario in which any of these events could have been prevented without US force of arms. The last time the US withdrew completely from the world stage, from 1929 to 1940, it simply produced a crisis that forced us into intervention, at a substantially higher cost than action earlier would have been.
The US military costs 3.5% of GDP currently. You can argue against the utility of American intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam. Most people do.
But you would have to be massively uneducated, to the point where almost anyone with any knowledge or experience with world affairs could tear you to ribbons, to suggest that isolation is an efficient or desirable use of resources.
You'll understand when you graduate from high school and your balls drop.
> places where private transportation could exist
but never would have.
and now that the public roads do exist, all private entities have a chance to benefit from them.
Public infrastructure benefits EVERYBODY. It improves private citizens' lives. It improves business profits. It opens new markets. It opens new lines of cultural exchange.
> if you take people's money for things they don't want to pay for that is objectively exploiting that person
> I fixed your heater. That'll be 500 dollars.
> "I don't want to pay you for that. EXPLOITATION!"
This is literally you.
No here is an accurate scenario of what actually happens you fuckwit.
>hey I fixed your heater
>what? My heater wasn't broken, and I didn't invite you in here.
>too bad that will be 500 dollars and 200 dollars to fix Shaniqua's heater, if you don't pay I will throw you in a cage, resist and I'll shoot you.
Lol so you did a Google search after I called you a troglodyte. That's cute.
>You expect me to magically know which government nut hugger is which? All you slaves sound the same.
You keep trying to act like you don't know anything about the Sovereign Citizen rhetoric you're dancing around.
> my heater wasn't broken
The 40-degree temperature in your apartment says otherwise.
> and 200 to fix Shaniqua's heater
Well, since you live in the same apartment as Shaniqua...
> if you don't pay, I will throw you in a cage
or sue you
> resist and I'll shoot you
Yep, sure is collectivist in here. Private individuals would never do that!
>it's broken if I tell you it's broken
I don't live in the same apartment, that's like saying, hurr since you live on the same planet you have to give African kids food.
You're making a big assumption here, and I don't think you realize it.
You're assuming that you're alone in the apartment.
You're not. The temperature in your living room is causally connected to other people feeling warm and toasty.
You're both tenants in the building, so yes, you'll both pay to fix the heater which the majority of the tenants say is broken. You have a bigger apartment than her, and you use the heater more than she does, plus when she uses her heater some of that heat drifts up from her apartment to yours. So yeah, you get to pay more for the thing you benefit more from.
You are not an individual. You are a member of a representative democracy. Don't like it? Go fucking vote.
Or move to a different fucking apartment building.
Nigger I've been talking union since minute 1. I don't know why you think that's going to insult me.
You live in a society. You must accept that the actions you take have an effect on that society, and that you benefit from the organization and social structure of that society. If you don't want that organization, you don't want those benefits, then you can go live in the goddamn woods and eat squirrel. Or, you know, kill yourself.
>Why kids are becoming liberal pussies
A combination of indoctrination towards liberal ideas starting in grade school and continuing through college. Also, Left leaning parties tend to benefit young people more with increased financial aid for school, scholarships etc. Conservative parties aren't much different except they benefit older generations and corporations instead of people.
No, you little shit, it's not exploitation. If you want the perks that come with membership, you have to pay the membership fee. If you don't want to pay the membership fee or don't want to abide by the rules, you don't get to stay in the "members only" area.
> my guns are dangerous
No they're not. Not unless I commit a crime with them. Belief in a collective society and belief in the right to self-armament and armed self-defense are not mutually exclusive. This all started because I was lamenting the long-gone days when unions stood up to the corporate/government cartel trying to strongarm them into obeisance.
> you have no rights because you're not an individual
When Taeshaun Dindu shoots you in the gut and steals your wallet? Well, he doesn't want to pay for law enforcement, so why should he be beholden to their rules?
Sorry the kinds of guns you all have are too dangerous and make killing too easy, you don't need access to those firearms. It's for the good of the people.
This is collectivism, enjoy!
> I don't know shit about American History pre-1967!
why don't you an hero and leave a little more air for the rest of us?
> the exact opposite of American values
You heard it here folks. The right to benefit from the fruits of your labor without having those fruits stolen away by greedy oligarchs is unamerican! What was it that Thomas Jefferson said? "Tax me, give my money to the East India Company, but don't let me into parliament!" I think that was it.
> I'm gonna say the same thing in more words!
My guns are not dangerous unless they are used in a crime. My guns can be used to defend against the depradations of individuals, corporations, or the government. This is unionist collectivism in the early 20th century. Remember that whole thing about armed revolution that had wealthy industrialists pissing their well-pressed britches?
How dare you quote Jefferson when you said there was no such thing as the individual.
I'm not even the guy you're arguing with but you really are an asshole.
Hopefully you get what you deserve someday you unamerican fuck.
A lot of those old, angry fucks are lonely and paranoid. Gun culture and veteran culture tends towards adhering to rules and regulations as a form of psychological structure.
Advice: Be cool. Take it in stride, and have your dad bring it up to whoever is in charge of the range and the rules therein. When you get a chance, talk it over with the old range guy and give him a chance to get some steam out. A lot of the younger generation with their AR's can make those old guys feel unappreciated and cranky.
I didn't say there was no such thing as the individual. I said that you are not an individual - within the specific dichotomy of "individual vs. member of representative democracy." It wasn't a philosophical fucking treatise, it was a contrast.
Your actions and opinions affect others, and their actions and opinions affect you. You don't get to dictate the laws of the land just because you don't like the way it's run. And you don't get to dictate how the government spends your money, any more than a person who holds a single share gets to determine how a publicly-traded company does business.
> owning a gun effects others
Not unless I use it on them
> so does hate speech
not in a measurable way which could be said to infringe on their rights.
You keep inserting all these things which I haven't said. If you wanna argue with me, argue with me. Not your women's studies professor, or the male feminist your girlfriend left you for.
The people can't trust you and everyone not to use weapons against others, they need to be regulated for the good of the people.
>not in a measurable way
Says you but the people are what matters not you.
You can't argue for collectivism and then suddenly use individualistic arguments when it's convenient for you.
> the people can't trust you
That's not an argument founded in anti-collective logic. It's slippery slopery. I could argue the same about an overbearing corporatocracy.
> the people are what matters not you
The shareholders are what matter, not you.
The police are what matter, not you.
The State is what matters, not you.
The farmers are what matter, not you.
The cityfolk are what matter, not you.
Again, that argument could be made against any system of government. Strwawman awaaaaaayyyyyy!
>Exactly and you owning a gun effects others, so does hate speech, it hurts their feelings.
Not that anon:
The Constitution exists to protect your rights from egregious interference from the state.
Just because you don't get to dictate government spending of taxes you pay as part of the social contract you are a member of (if you prefer the stakeholder analogy, then the company that you hold a single issue of stock in) doesn't mean freedom doesn't exist and you're being exploited.
As part of that membership (or status of stakeholder) you get to vote.
But so does everyone else.
This however is not mutually exclusive as a concept from Constitutional protections from the government (board).
Jesus, if ever there was a reminder for how shitty this board is these days.
I´m a pazifist, so fuck you
I even did alternative service, so fuck you twice