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Hello /k/, /tg/ fanboy here.

What kind of equipment a powerful corporation (Like Umbrella) would provide it's own S.W.A.T. teams? I'm speaking weapons and ammo / armor / related equipment like camera, clothing, night-vision Goggles, grenades, silencers...

I want to make the experience as realistic as possible, so actual manufacturer name / gun model and reasons for these picks would be much appreciated. I'd even go as far as a detail that makes those brands different, like a clinking noise when the last ammo of a magazine is spent, or an item being surprisingly heavy/light for its size would also be nice.
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>>28869784
D20 Modern has a pretty great armory book for this sort of thing.

For Umbrella, most kit will be task and terrain specific. In general, urban environment will gear with small light weapons like SMGs and body armor to defeat small arms fire and infected. If it is wide open terrain, move up to assault rifles and marksman rifles.

The sound of a magazine hitting the ground, or empty casings hitting concrete will be negligible compared to the REEEEEEEEEEEE you will hear with out hearing protection, or won't be heard or difficult to notice with hearing protection.
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>>28869784
Additionally, lurk on the gear queer, battle rifle, AR and AK general threads. Ask questions about specific things on those threads, or a questions that don't deserve their own thread.

Unless you have specific game system in mind, check out Spycraft 2.0. It might be really good for what you are going for, or can be used as a homebrew template.

Cheers from a fa/tg/uy lurker.
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>>28869784
>M4 / MP5

>AR500 plates

>Multicam

>Sfera helmets

>PVS7 / PVS14 NODs

>M67 Grenades
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>>28869857
>>28869894
Ty for the reply

> For Umbrella, most kit will be task and terrain specific.
So... Urban, Search and Rescue / Hostage Rescue.

> In general, urban environment will gear with small light weapons like SMGs and body armor to defeat small arms fire and infected.
So, no shotguns? Why?

> Additionally, lurk on the gear queer, battle rifle, AR and AK general threads. Ask questions about specific things on those threads, or a questions that don't deserve their own thread.
Will do, sorry for the waste-of-a-thread then.

> Unless you have specific game system in mind, check out Spycraft 2.0. It might be really good for what you are going for, or can be used as a homebrew template.
Do you have an idea where I could get my hand on a copy?

>>28869937
That's precise and concise... gonna wiki those.
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>>28869784
Assuming it's in America like the other anon said

Urban
MP5
AR15 based PDW
One guy in the group may have an R700 in 308
Pistols would probably be glock 19 Berreta 92 or maybe Sig P226

Open terrain

M16
M14 EBR
Pistols would be same as above

Jungle
Probably more PDWs M16 variants

If you are not in America OP look up what ever country this is taking place ins standard issue weapon and go from there
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>>28869784
a large cop with a huge amount of money could get pretty much anything they want/need short of an F22 or a nuke or something silly like that

regular old people that can fill out paperwork/aren't on any serious watch list and have cash can buy suppressors and automatic weapons so its safe to assume a huge multinational company could afford them too

if they want to make life/logistics easy just issue everyone M4s with eotech holos for inside, ACOGs for outside building/perimeter stuff
maybe let them chose form a small list of side arms in 1 standard caliber
if they need to reach out further maybe a couple MK11s
have one guy per squad/unit carry a shotgun incase door breaching
smoke and flash grenades make sense but i'm not sure if i'd want my companies security throwing frags around inside my buildings and poking holes in everything

clothes? black or dark blue pants and shirt for the indoors/night time stuff, whatever colors/camo matches the environment for perimeter stuff
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>>28869975
Your urban list hits the spot. Question: is it standard to have only a single main weapon based on your role and a sideweapon like a pistol?

Is the guy carrying around the R700 also carrying an MP5, for example?

Also, what about suppression fire? Could an AR-15 be equipped with a drum instead of a magazine if he's expected to face heavy resistance?
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>>28869966
>That's precise and concise... gonna wiki those.
Oh, and M50 gas mask
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>>28870046
> if they want to make life/logistics easy just issue everyone M4s with eotech holos for inside, ACOGs for outside building/perimeter stuff
Reading about Holographic Sights / Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight. TYVM!

> maybe let them chose form a small list of side arms in 1 standard caliber
The system is pretty generic, I'll have to make sure there's a mechanical difference between them. Maybe introduce a Beretta 93R (which, if I recall, can be set to fire in bursts)?

As a sidenote, most weapons suggested were favorites while playing Jagged Alliances 2. It's... weird.

> MK11
There will definitely be a sniper in the group.

> have one guy per squad/unit carry a shotgun incase door breaching
A model to suggest?

> smoke and flash grenades make sense but i'm not sure if i'd want my companies security throwing frags around inside my buildings and poking holes in everything
I plan different operations, so I will plan accordingly. Isn't there a concussion grenade that's half-way?

>>28870094
Thanks!
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>>28869937
I can't tell if that's subtle trolling or not.
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>>28870046
> if they want to make life/logistics easy just issue everyone M4s with eotech holos for inside, ACOGs for outside building/perimeter stuff

Isn't the barrel a bit long for close quarters? Besides, wouldn't it be even simpler to have an SMG that can use the same type of ammo the sidearms use?

>Beretta 92 listed as having 4 possible choices of ammo
Oh dear...

9×19mm Parabellum (92 series)
.40 S&W (96 series)
9×21mm IMI (98 series)
7.65mm Luger (98 series)
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>>28870058
Not the guy you're asking, but:

*Equipment is heavy. Someone who is already lugging around a sniper rifle + ammo, plate carrier, grenades, and other junk is not going to have an MP5 as well unless he enjoys slowing everyone else down.

*Depending on the situation, consider giving one of the guys in the squad an M240 for suppression instead of relying on an assault rifle firing intermediate rounds.
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>>28870138
OP here. I guess there must be a Multicam for urban setting. I planned to go blue or black for sheer intimidating power.

I haven't looked yet into the grenades and whatever the NODs are...
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>>28870155
> Equipment is heavy. Someone who is already lugging around a sniper rifle + ammo, plate carrier, grenades, and other junk is not going to have an MP5 as well unless he enjoys slowing everyone else down.
So specialization for the sake of efficiency, fits with the TTRPG mentality, gotcha!

> *Depending on the situation, consider giving one of the guys in the squad an M240 for suppression instead of relying on an assault rifle firing intermediate rounds.
It will be given as an option for the strongest member of the team (not to him, mind you, it'll be offered to the team leader).
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>>28870143
"Close quarters" usually means "within 100 meters" as opposed to "within 21 feet." The M4 is also more accurate at longer ranges and fires a far more deadly round than any SMG.

Don't bother with any of the ammo types apart from 9x19mm. It's the most commonly used handgun caliber in the world, and it offers the best balance between damage, recoil, availability, and capacity.
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>>28869937
>PVS7 / PVS14 NODs
Do those things affect depth perception?
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>>28870209
> Don't bother with any of the ammo types apart from 9x19mm. It's the most commonly used handgun caliber in the world, and it offers the best balance between damage, recoil, availability, and capacity.
It's the archetypal 9mm, I guess?

Also, the M4 is using 5.56×45mm NATO, right?
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>>28870233
>Also, the M4 is using 5.56×45mm NATO, right?

Yes.
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>>28870143

>barrel a bit long

Not at all. Look at any police or special forces from most countries. They overwhelmingly prefer M4s even for close quarters. It does just fine.

Also, Beretta 98's are quite rare. You're more likely to to be issued a 96 or 92. The former (.40 S&W) is common with everyday police, but for your organization I would imagine they prefer 9mm instead.
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>>28870254
So the MP5 would have the benefit that, in an emergency, ammo could be swapped between it and the Beretta 92.

If you're sending a team without exactly knowing the number of hostiles due to the information being classified, you want to give them the maximum flexibility and ability to salvage the ammo security guards might have had for both their weapons, right?
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>>28869784
Another question: Police baton / Combat knife. Yes/No and why?
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>>28870118
for the pistol you could go with Glock G19 semi auto 9mm and if you want a fancy pistol Glock G18 which is full auto 9mm

shotguns... Mossberg 590 or Remington 870, both are popular and picking one or the other could start a debate/shit flinging

>>28870143
inside an office building or industrial building or whatever an M4 should be ok

yeah handgun ammo is a huge debate so i'd pick 1 round like 9mm or whatever and say you can pick a Glock G17/G19 or Sig P250 or FN FNS-9, reason i give options for pistols is people find different pistols fit and feel better in their hand but 1 single caliber to make life easy for the armory when ordering/giving out ammo
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>>28870354
>Mossberg 590 or Remington 870
I won't give them a choice then!

> Glock G19 semi auto 9mm / Glock G18 which is full auto 9mm
What does one sacrifices for the full auto option? Does the more complex mechanism affects accuracy / durability, for example, or is it just price?
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>>28870094 & >>28869937
> M50 gas mask
> PVS14 NODs
Can someone wear both at the same time?
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>>28870392
G18 being fired in auto is what affects accuracy
are very close range it shouldn't be an issue for an experienced shooter
https://youtu.be/L_D9weITWDI?t=2m14s
its a small light weapon firing very fast so it wants to jump
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>>28870392

There isn't a use for full auto pistols. Pistols are really only used as a backup weapon, and you have very little ammo for it. A full auto one would needlessly eat it up too quickly.

If you do want to make a difference between pistols, the best way is to not look at the guns themselves but the calibers they're in. 9mm, .40, and .45 are popular in semi-automatics, but more powerful rounds like .357 or .44 magnums are more often found in revolvers (but be careful. They are NOT blast-them-across-the-wall powerful. They are about the same as 5.56 rounds). Also look into .357 sig if you want to bridge the two.
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>>28869784
So here's what I've got. Please bear in mind as some choices might be less than optimal, players tend to think a lot out of the box. Please correct me if needed.

> 2 or 3 out of 5 team members will be carry an MP4 / MP5 with Holographic Sights.
While the MP4 will have better range and higher damage, the MP5 will allow characters to salvage ammunition more easily, would the need arise.

> Up to one will be carrying a M240.
Definitely an heavier caliber, only the strongest member of the team will be able to carry it along without slowing the team down, it will have a tripod.

> One R700 / MK11
Perks of each to-be-determined.

> Glock 9 (or Beretta 92) / Glock G18 (Beretta 93R)
>>28870585 think of it this way: If there is no real trade-off, as >>28870508 suggested, then it is an additional option in case of emergency. Maybe it's not a good one, but they'd rather be given a bad option than none.

I might also give a possibility for a Colt .357 for more stopping power at the cost of reduced magazine.

Cont.
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>>28869966
>So, no shotguns? Why?
Shotguns are good too.

>Do you have an idea where I could get my hand on a copy?
Used book stores that have game books, Amazon, ebay, or luck out at your friendly local game store
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>>28870658
> Up to 1 Shotgun
I personally knew the Remington's name before entering the thread, and it is the only reason I picked this one to be made available.

> Combat Knife / Police Baton
Once again, a bad option is better than none.

> Combat Fatigue and balaclava, black
Intimidating power / fits better with the company's logo.

> 2 flashbangs / 1 smoke grenade / 1 frag grenade

> Body armour, full
Although I am unsure how the team's sniper would see use of it while he's still slowed down. Would only the jacket be sensible?

> M50 gas mask

> PVS14 NODs
It might be not a good reason, but since the PVS7 has only one lens anyway, better take the lighter Night Vision.

Anything else? I think I remember playing SWAT 3 a decade ago and there being a mirror-on-a-stick. Was it improved upon since? What about thermal?
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>>28870658
Just lurking here but thought I'd point out a few little things. I know you're from /tg/ so you might not know.

> it's M4, not MP4

> M240 is usually operated by a 2 man squad (one to load/feed, the other to shoot)

> it's glock 19 not glock 9

Also the 93r was developed for anti-mafia police forces, if I remember correctly. Good luck getting your hands on one, even for something like Umbrella. AFAIK they don't manufacture them anymore.
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>>28870768
> it's M4, not MP4
> it's glock 19 not glock 9
Thanks for the correction.

> M240 is usually operated by a 2 man squad (one to load/feed, the other to shoot)
This will probably steer the PCs away. Thought the weapon was too heavy anyway.

> Also the 93r was developed for anti-mafia police forces, if I remember correctly. Good luck getting your hands on one, even for something like Umbrella. AFAIK they don't manufacture them anymore.
I will keep that in mind... I guess I'm going with the Glock then.

You'll have to pardon me, my knowledge on /k/ stuff comes mostly from /v/, /tg/ and /pol/. This extra information / corrections you've brought is the reason this thread is on /k/.
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>>28869784
The main determining factors of what any such team will be equipped with is going to be what the task at hand is, and how much they know about what is going on.

For some kind of mega corporation with absurd levels of available funds the kinds of weapons that would be brought to bear can have an incredible range of variance.

For example lets say an entity like Umbrella Corp was sending a kill team after someone or thing. Depending on how urgent it is they may not give a single shit about subtlety and would prefer to use something that will get the job done quickly for example a couple xm25s for taking out groups of people, or for the "thing" category something like the lahti L39 in 20mm would also easily be doable albeit less mobile but would get the job done.

That all being said, do you have any idea what kind of threats you want this team to face?
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>>28870840
No problem man, although heed this guy's
>>28869894 advice about lurking in the AK/AR/battle rifle generals, gear queer and the QTDDTOT threads and ask specific questions there.
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>>28869784
Plate carrier, battle belts with drop leg holsters, M4's Glocks Benelli M1014 P90 MP5 HK93 Sig-556
So many things just use your imagination
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>>28870920
> That all being said, do you have any idea what kind of threats you want this team to face?
First, they will face an hostage situation in one of their offices.

Then, it will be an "hive" experience. Desperation will allow for collateral damage, the number of hostiles is unknown but high enough that ammo supplies might become a problem.

Note that the team will have a trained medic and something close to a hacker. I am also working on a therapist, as to keep the level of stress low. They don't want to trigger a flight-or-fight panic attack.
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>>28870998
> So many things just use your imagination
Imagination cannot be had without a modicum of knowledge.
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>>28870118
>> have one guy per squad/unit carry a shotgun incase door breaching
>A model to suggest?


if it's primarily for breaching then he should be carrying a short barreled shotgun and a primary weapon like picture related.
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>>28871036
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>>28871036
> if it's primarily for breaching then he should be carrying a short barreled shotgun and a primary weapon like picture related.
Will definitely be an option. Thanks! What model is this?
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>>28871036
Also, are the tubes hanging from his side "breaking lights"?
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>>28871001
Alright, how much collateral damage would be acceptable? Is the detection of the team by the hostage takers going to cause their deaths? Also how many many people are in the team all together?

Also what system are you using to run this through? Because from my experience taking large amounts of damage usually comes before the players run out of ammunition.
>>
Setting is another thing to consider. Depending upon the era you would have vastly different equipment for this paramilitary force, because what is in "vouge" or what was standard issue is different.
>1930s
Thompsons, revolvers, maybe a bolt rifle
>1940s
Semi auto rifles like the M1, 1911s, early carbines
>1950s
M14, FN FAL, browning Hi power
>1960s
Early M16, hi power
You get the drift
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>>28871060
its usually a remington 870 or a mossberg 590a1.

if you are going to go with just a shotgun and no main rifle i would give them a Benelli M4 Super 90
there are a bunch of ways to go with it. if your unit is primarily about killing bad guys they would have a different set up then if they were hostage rescue/doing warrent raids.
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>>28871019
I dont know much about umbrella or what their role is.

But I would imagine some sort of private military contractor / pseudo-security private/police force would use a low profile rig.

like a IIIA kevlar vest over the clothing, holster belt with gadgets and radio, a slinged rifle like a Sig-556 or ARX160 if you want something cool and creative and semi space-like.

And definitely a Glock or Beretta in the holster, a .40 S&W. Maybe a Glock 23 or Beretta 96A1. Add a tactical light.

Most agents would only have pistols or a short barrel rifle, like a colt commando or a MP5K or a P90.

The ones that are more of a rapid-reaction or SWAT-esque fighting force would have full size carbines. Also would have some sort of kevlar helmet like a MICH or ACH or PASGT style.

They would have NOD's attached to the helmet via mounting bracket.

Some of them could have plate carriers with various MOLLE pouches for their magazines and maybe a Camelbak or IFAK-pouch if you want them to look operator-ish.

For a uniform I would do like a Black BDU-jacket with Khaki BDU-pants or Tactical pants. Some black combat boots, with a patch on the bdu jacket with their name and maybe a Umbrella-logo on their shoulder.

No idea if this is what you wanted or is helpful.
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>>28871133
they are chemlights the ones you crack and shake. what they are used for its when you enter the building and you start clearing rooms you toss a chemlight on the ground of a room thats already been cleared to mark it so that everyone who passes the room isnt going inside and unnecessarily clearing it while they have friendlies pushed up into the next rooms
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>>28870345
Fellow fa/tg/uy here.
Depends. Is this a corporation that doesn't answer to anybody? (I'm thinking Shadowrun, here).
Batons are defensive rather than offensive. Yes, they can be deadly, but aren't designed for the purpose. Combat knives are mostly just heavy-duty utility knives that are rarely used for killing anything.
Honestly, I'd go for the knives. Slightly scarier, in my opinion.
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>>28871153
>I dont know much about umbrella or what their role is.

they are a base security and internal reaction force for keeping out and exterminating infected.
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>>28871142
> its usually a remington 870 or a mossberg 590a1.
So basically a barrel thing.

> Alright, how much collateral damage would be acceptable?
First mission is "avoid human casualties as long as doing so do not endanger you", second is "rescuing civilians / preserving hardware is a secondary objectives".

> Is the detection of the team by the hostage takers going to cause their deaths?
Yes, although there might be a delay. PCs' organization known for ruthlessness, so violence is bound to escalate, but hostage takers are amateurs. Second mission doesn't apply: Zombies.


> Also what system are you using to run this through?
Dream Pod 9's silhouette. It is very realistic as people can die from shock when they accrue flesh / deep wounds or instant death. Armor is a lot more effective on small arms than on rockets.

> Because from my experience taking large amounts of damage usually comes before the players run out of ammunition.
Armor will be very efficient. For a player to be seriously wounded, he has to be very stupid and unlucky. System favors consistency with skills (skill lvl x d6, take the highest) and foes will be either amateurs almost as dangerous to themselves or masses of mindless zombies.

> Setting is another thing to consider.
2016

>>28871202
I definitely give the players the option here. Also, think desperate AA Corp. Can't afford to be discovered.

>>28871153
Umbrella is an arms-dealer with a branch in bio-engineered weapons. Resident-Evil's zombie apocalypse, literally.

> Add a tactical light.
Due, thanks. Completely forgot.

> No idea if this is what you wanted or is helpful.
It is wanted and helpful.
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>>28870299

Honestly, if you have such a hard-on for 9mm, just have them go with the MP5k or some other PDW and ditch the pistol, You will double the weight but have a weapon that is select fire.
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>>28871387
also if they have night vision they need PEQ boxes.
>>
>
Honestly, if you have such a hard-on for 9mm, just have them go with the MP5k or some other PDW and ditch the pistol, You will double the weight but have a weapon that is select fire.

That's probably what I would do as a player. I am not the player. Although you do bring a point: What's the real use of a side-weapon ? All I can see is someone carrying a weapon and combat knife at the same time for really close encounters.
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>>28871418
I'll probably be going Thermal Vision since the team will have smoke grenades.
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>>28871445
Thermal wouldnt work so well for the undead I assume.
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>>28871458
How about one of the thermal/NV combo goggles? Get the best of both worlds.
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>>28869784
I ran a related d20 modern campaign OP, here's what I did (from rough memory):

M4 rifle- masterwork with ACOG scope: 2d8 damage. +2 to attack rolls due to scope and masterwork, 19-20 x2 critical. Suppressor as needed for environment (for zombies sensitive to sound, that would be nice, but optional for most situations. For d20 rule of cool applies). Look up the SOPMOD attachments, it has a lot of tacticool stuff you can tack on.

Sidearm: usually optional but usually I give a beretta 92fs as a masterwork 9mm with 2d6. Glock works too. Any 9mm, .40, or .45 will be reasonable if its America. An officer carries one.

Gas mask- m50.

Nightvision as necessary. You can always just make a helmet with a gas mask and nightvision integrated a la fallout new vegas ncr ranger armor- it's within the realm of possibility and the suspension of disbelief that a special ops unit would have those.

Grenade- tear gas and if you want a lethal Loadout add a frag grenade. Incendiary grenade if they are some black ops anti zombie unit. Flash bangs aren't bad either.

Med kit is a must, at least for one guy.

Why do I add masterwork? Why not, I think they make most guns too similar anyway, I think a freshly made/upgraded m4 and $600 beretta is worthy of masterwork anyway.

Make sure you don't make them full retard units either. Give them decent armor, make them pretty smart, give them weapon focus or specialization and watch your players run away or at least treat them as a valid threat rather than "whatever Ima tank it" like my players did.
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>>28871541
>SOPMOD
did someone mention the barbie for men?
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>>28871458
Rotting bodies (assuming theyre undead and not infected live people) give off a decent amount of heat. They might not be white hot, but orange shows up well enough.
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>>28870658
This is the tripod. Nobody really wants to lug it around. Just the bipod is good enough.
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>>28871387
Alright so from what I've read so far the mission is most likely indoors, in which case night vision gear is really only necessary if the party decides to cut the power to whatever building the opfor is in, while this is a valid strategy its rather noticeable for the people who took the hostages.


Now regarding armor, most body armor that you will be dealing with if you are trying to make this more realistic is going to mostly only cover the center of mass, due to how heavy it gets to try and fully armor yourself. The teams best bet is likely going to be level 4 multi hit ceramics which will deal with small arms fine. Now, If it is in an indoor setting its important to remember that the backblast of a rocket being fired can seriously injure someone in an enclosed area so these will likely not be encountered unless the enemies just genuinely don't care.

For something like this my personal reccomendation for the chambering of their weapons would be something that is subsonic and easily supressed, .300 blackout comes to mind as well as .458 socom, however .458 is much larger and you can only fit 10 rounds in what is normally a 30 round magazine. The main reason i say this over something like an mp5 or some other smg/machine pistol is that when various police departments field tested these options for their swat teams they found that it takes a much larger amount of rounds to put someone down than a traditional rifle, if you want i can try finding the source of that again but the supressed subsonic rifles in my opinion would be far superior.

Further equipment that could be useful would be something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmRxCGskdAI
encase things get a bit shitty and they need to move forward rather fast.
as well as possibly a few demolition charges and some water which could be used to blast a hole in drywall to make an unexpected entrance point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw6EH95htYg

cont in a moment
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>>28869784
Where are you from? A kommando may let you play with some guns
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>>28871567
I did because hey, if it works it works, and it has everything a special unit could possibly have.

Oh as a side point OP, m203 grenade launchers are great add ons. It fucks players up real fast though so I would only have like one in a group of swat guys unless you absolutely want to make them dead or they are packing magic or some special shit.
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>>28871433
Side arms AR for when your weapon shits the bed but the target is still shooting back.
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>>28871855
>>28871855

Then the poster might as well use a primary and secondary weapon setup that don't share ammo types in my opinion. No reason to limit yourself to pistol rounds only if you are dealing with hostiles that can be both armed and armored, unless your supply department are big time assholes.
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>>28871458
Well, not everything will go right.

>>28871633
Aww, no fun.

>>28871684
Thanks! This will be useful for the sniper.

> Alright so from what I've read so far the mission is most likely indoors, in which case night vision gear is really only necessary if the party decides to cut the power to whatever building the opfor is in, while this is a valid strategy its rather noticeable for the people who took the hostages.
This is still an option I want to give PCs.

> Now regarding armor, most body armor that you will be dealing with if you are trying to make this more realistic is going to mostly only cover the center of mass, due to how heavy it gets to try and fully armor yourself.
That's exactly the kind of info I wanted, thanks!

> The teams best bet is likely going to be level 4 multi hit ceramics which will deal with small arms fine.
I have no idea what you're talking about, will dig into it.

> Now, If it is in an indoor setting its important to remember that the backblast of a rocket being fired can seriously injure someone in an enclosed area so these will likely not be encountered unless the enemies just genuinely don't care.
There could be a rocket involved, but when it'll be the case, space won't be a problem. Taking note though, as PCs often think out of the box.

> chambering of their weapons would be something that is subsonic and easily supressed (...) and you can only fit 10 rounds in what is normally a 30 round magazine.
Wait, if the ammunition is bulkier, how does it fit in the same chamber as non-subsonic?
>>
>>28871919
>>28871855

Sorry about that 4chan went full retard and made it seem like you were talking to me.
>>
>>28871931
>>28871702
Sorry, I didn't quote you. Going back and forth a lot between youtube, 4chan, google, wikipedia and some manufacturers' sites.
>>
>>28871433

Besides the OH SHI- weapon that is between your primary and your hands, it can also be used in a very tight space situation that doesn't allow you to use the primary effectively.
>>
>>28871752
Canada, Québec. As anti-gun as a nation ought to be.
>>
>>28871633
>They might not be white hot, but orange shows up well enough.
maybe
what body temp do you think they'd have?
i ask because where i live in the central valley in California we have summer nights where it'll still be in mid to high 80s or even low 90s at 11pm
they usually come after hot 100 degree days where we get 0 wind and everything just bakes all day to the point the asphalt in parking lots are still warm hours after sundown
>>
>>28871702
cont
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4vtO0ibMO0
the is a slow motion ballistics gel test of one of the many available loadings of 300 blackout

If they really want to get sneaky they could also possibly use fetanyl gas grenades/canisters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Methylfentanyl however they would both need to be a bit careful with how much they use and make sure they have masks with sufficient oxygen supplies as well as extras so they dont accidentally smother the people they are supposed to be extracting.

>>28871931
To your question on subsonic ammo the number for the calibers is the bullets diameter in inches so .300 blackout is .3 inches wide whereas .458 socom has a bullet diameter of just under a half inch. You can make a round subsonic by either reducing the powder charge in the round, or increasing the weight of the bullet, or both the case stays the same size regardless of how much powder is inside. Here is a picture of the different cartridges .458 on the left .223 in the middle and .300 blackout on the right.

Depending on how fancy and high tech you want this team to be they could honestly take something like a ruger no.1 chambered in something absurd like .338 lapua magnum to deal with more hardened individuals. And for that matter light machine guns wouldnt be too terrible of an idea to bring along encase everything goes to shit for them.

Also would they have any manner of outside support? For example calling in some kind of extraction or gunship support should they need it on the extraction end of things?
>>
>>28869784
So... recap. For every men:

> Armor:
> Balistic Armor that covers the center bodymass and helmet / Ceramic plates
For such an operation, fatigue has to be avoided.

> Uniform
> A black balaclava, gloves, combat boots

> Weapons
> Colt M4 / H&K MP5 ( /w tactical light & Eotech)
First option has better range and more stopping power while ammunition for the second will be more common.

> Remington 870
Either as a sidearm / breaching tool replacing the pistol, or as a main weapon.

> Remington 700 or MK 11
I still have to work perks / flaws of both.

> Glock 18 / Colt .357
Magazine size & Fire mode vs. stopping power / ease of maintenance

> Combat Knife / Police extendable Bâton
The first is more practical and lethal, the second has reach and cracks skulls.

> 3 grenades (1 flash, 1 smoke, 1 chosen by player, frag available)

> Other Equipment
> Gas Mask M50
> Thermal Vision goggles
> Chemlights
> Comm system
> Mirror-on-a-stick
> Binoculars or First Aid Kit or Small Laptop
> Canteen
> Silencers for pistols

>>28872216
>both the case stays the same size regardless of how much powder is inside
Then the difference between these ammo types is not significant enough. Heck, considereing the opposition, I don't even go Armor-Piercing / Hollow Point, which games I played make a lot more use of.

> Also would they have any manner of outside support?
The training mission (hostage situation), yes. The actual mission afterwards? Not really, except perhaps emergency situation. Also, there'll be survivors able to help them, give more info, etc. They will be few and far between.
>>
>>28872338
>ammunition for the second will be more common.
This makes no sense, under no circumstance should they be scavenging ammo. Ammo is cheap, you bring enough for yourself and don't waste a few minutes taking it out of a dead guys mags and putting it in your own.
>>
>>28872338

>ammunition for the second will be more common.

Where and who exactly are you fighting? Unless you are fighting people as standardized as you, you cannot predict what hostiles could be carrying. Don't gimp the standard grunt with mp5 platforms when you have no clear idea where and who you are fighting.
>>
>>28871541
M4 rifle- masterwork with ACOG scope: 2d8 damage. +2 to attack rolls due to scope and masterwork, 19-20 x2 critical. Suppressor as needed for environment (for zombies sensitive to sound, that would be nice, but optional for most situations. For d20 rule of cool applies). Look up the SOPMOD attachments, it has a lot of tacticool stuff you can tack on.

Dream Pod 9 works differently. First, dice pool is (skill level)d6. Result is highest dice result. This means a skilled character as a much more stable performance instead of going wildly like on a d20.

It also means a +1 bonus is tremendously powerful too.

Damage is determined by Margin of Success and damage multiplier, then compared to wound thresholds. For example: A attack B with a Colt .357 (x20) and rolls a 6. The terrorist dodged with a 3. MoS is 3. Damage is 60. Terrorist's Stamina is 25 and has no armor. Light wound threshold is 12, Deep wound is 25 and instant death is 50. The terrorist has been shot square in the head and is dead.

Another terrorist shoots at the PC. Shooter gets a 4, and PC fumbles with a 1. PC has cover, so it gives 2. Terrorist has a MoS of 2. His peashooter does x10. PC has also a Stamina of 25, but wears armor, bringing his thresholds to 22 / 35 / 60. 20 is less than the lowest threshold. It hurts like a bitch, PC gets a -1 for the next round, but is not severely wounded, it ain't even a flesh wound.
>>
>>28872338
The main difference between subsonic and supersonic is noise, and when you are trying to be a bit sneaky quieter is generally better.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu077F2Vxv4

As for the list they will definitely need goggles or some kind of eye protection as well as electronic hearing protection, large amounts of gunfire in enclosed spaces can make you go partially deaf on a bad day and give you permanent tinnitus on an exceptionally good one.

At least one person should probably have a set of bolt cutters in the group, to deal with chained doors, padlocks handcuffed hostages, and other things of that variety.

An option for flashbang grenades would also probably be a good idea.

For shotguns beneli m4 super 90s or vepr 12s would fill the combat shotgun role rather nicely the vepr 12 being magazine fed makes it much easier to reload under duress.

Each member of the team should also carry an extra pair or two of socks on them, they can be more useful than you can really imagine sometimes.


>>28872519
>>28872548
These anon's also have very good points, unless you are planning on turning this into some kind of scavenger/survival campaign a well funded swat team should not ever need to scavenge unless everything has gone wrong.
>>
>>28872548
>>28872519
A sealed-off research complex overran with zombies, some of which were security guards with 9mm weaponry.

There will be more zombies than bullets in their starting equipment.

Then, there's the thing that when they get out, the infection has spread, and they definitely have less ammo than there's zombies in the city.
>>
>>28869784

Anything that looks operator in the cutscenes.
>>
>>28872636
> These anon's also have very good points, unless you are planning on turning this into some kind of scavenger/survival campaign a well funded swat team should not ever need to scavenge unless everything has gone wrong.
That's exactly the situation.
>>
Things to consider:

If zombies are only stopped by a round to the skull, anything larger than maybe a 9mm is pointless.

You get higher capacity and you dont need fully automatic fire as only a well placed headshot counts for anything.
>>
>>28870155
But the M240 fires the same round
>>
>>28872655

Honestly, in that type of situation, you'd fall back and get back up. If a company has enough to be the umbrella corp but not retarded, they should have access to better intel and know that sending a small ass team when a whole facility goes dark is riskyand have at least backups on site and en-route.

>>28872715
You are thinking of the 249. 240 shoots 7.62 FUCKIN NEATO
>>
>>28872655
Why not just 5.56 as a primary, then? You can always use the pistols the security guys had.

A trained up SWAT sorta guy should be able to carry plenty of ammo. I generally carried 7 magazines, 30 rounds each with me to go walk miles in the desert heat. Another guy carried 12. This was in addition to other shit we had to carry, like water, armor, batteries, and oh yeah, a further belt of ammunition for the SAW.
>>
>>28872676
> If zombies are only stopped by a round to the skull, anything larger than maybe a 9mm is pointless.
If your sole purpose is to kill the zombie, I agree. Higher caliber weapon have more chance to knock back / down a group of zombies in a burst.

Mechanic wise, zombies cannot suffer instant death under anything but a dedicated headshot. As they suffer wounds, the walk slower, lose the ability to walk and got to crawl, etc. As the objective is not "slay all zombies", pushing back the horde while retrieving an objective might be more efficient than killing one.
>>
>>28870186
Team leaders usually aren't automatic riflemen (machinegunners).
>>
>>28872735
> Deeper in the subject
Actually, it's a last-ditch attempt at salvaging something before destroying the facility completely. There is no back-up. There was no operation to begin with.

Each PC will also have personal objectives. Those objectives have to remain secret and are worth points. There will be Objectives loyal to the company (e.g. retrieving data, saving scientists, finding another PC's renegade objective and exposing him/her), neutral objectives (successfully grappling a zombie away from another player, finding traces of a loved one in the facility, avoiding players going MIA at all costs) and renegade objective (Get your fix, smuggle a sample of virus/antidote outside, wipe out the AI). Extra points will be awarded for good roleplay and/or leaving hints of their behaviors.

Note: Characters will be pre-generated, players will choose load-out, hence my repeated insistence on choices. Especially on strategy.

Winner gets to decide whatever I GM next.
>>
>>28872833
I meant the decision will belong to the team leader although he won't be the one firing the weapon. This was lost in translation.
>>
>>28872737
> Why not just 5.56 as a primary, then? You can always use the pistols the security guys had.
I can see perks to doing both. I will not be taking the choice, merely presenting it, as per the note I left here >>28872844

> I generally carried 7 magazines, 30 rounds each with me to go walk miles in the desert heat. Another guy carried 12. This was in addition to other shit we had to carry (...)
Huh, I thought 4 was going to be a hassle. I plan making suppression fire a regular thing to do, but indeed, putting it that way, 5.56 seems like a solid choice.

Given that information, I'll go with 7+Str clip of 5.56 or 8+Str clip of 9 mm for their main weapons and 3 clips for their side weapons.

What about shotguns shells / sniper rounds? Are they much heavier or is carrying around 200+ realistic?
>>
>>28873042
>7+Str clip
>8+Str clip

what?
>>
>>28873042
Shotgun shells are heavy, so I'd say that 100 is pushing the limits unless you've got a very big guy. Sniper rifle rounds (7.62x51mm NATO, most likely) are heavier than 5.56x45mm, but not heavy enough that a sniper couldn't conceivably carry 200ish rounds.
>>
>>28873126

Plus shotgun shells themselves are kinda bulky compared to 5.56 Nato.
>>
>>28873112
I am unsure what your "what" was aimed at.
> If you did not understand what I meant:
Dream Pod 9's silhouette system has a zero-average value, a bit like d20's stat modifiers. "Str" is thus a variable that determines how strong a person is.

> The misuse of "clip"
I meant magazine, sorry.

> I am completely wrong
I thought, and still think 5.56 is considerably heavier than 9mm is. Am I wrong?

>>28873126
>>28873160
I'll probably go 75 + 5(xSTR) shells, meaning the strongest member of the team will be able to carry about 85.

Sounds reasonable?
>>
>>28873252
5.56×45mm 183 gr (11.8 g)
9 mm Para 124 gr (8.04 g) FMJ

>RPG explanation

Ah okay, I was really confused of what you were trying to say.
>>
>>28873349
> Ah okay, I was really confused of what you were trying to say.
And I am amazed how helpful this board was, even though the first answers suggested that I lurk / visit general threads.

I've got all the information I required, some volunteered information I wouldn't have thought to ask. They guided me through options / adds-on and barely related stuff.

Heck, I didn't even know that shotguns were used by swat teams to breach doors. I thought it was primarily used for the extra oomph, especially combined to non-lethal ammo.

They have provided videos of experimental stuff, and warned me about things that may trigger what looks like an edition war on /tg/. They have given me extra lore, like the Beretta 93R being extremely rare as it was produced to fight the mafia.

I am amazed. /k/ is a magical place.
>>
>>28873480

No problem fa/tg/uy.
>>
4Man black recovery team..

general gear: iiia vest w/ optional dick protector, optional battle belt, thigh- vest- or belt- mount holster, nbc mask in thigh rig, mich/protec helmet, live camera, optional HUD or wristmount tablet, helmet mounted nv/thermal or weapons rail mounted, ifak, kneepads gloves tac boots and either jumpsuits or raid/crye style uniforms (or street clothes ie jeans and polos/jackets for the more discrete angle but doesnt apply w OP) flash/cs/smoke, utility tools and edged weapons.


Team leader, canned CQBR M68 CCO + swivel mount 3x magnifier & IR, canned P30 9mm + taclight and IR laser. 4x 30rd mags, 1x 60rd mag, 6x sidearm mags.

Electronics/Comms (&driver, Tahoe SSV), P90 SD, Five-seven SD + IR and light. thigh holster, utility vest. 4x 50rd pri, 4x 30rd sidearm mags.

Marksman, 18" SPR 5.56 SD with 6-20x50mm scope, QD nv mount, opr8r docter sight on angle mount, p30sd lite/ir mags and ammo

support, 16" HBAR + can 5.56 fullauto + bipod, P30sd, STOMP or similar medical bag, M590A1 14" bbl 5+1 12ga pistol grip, 4x 40rd mag, 4x30rd mag, 1x 60rd mag, 4x sidearm, 18rds breaching 12ga, 9rds 00Buck 9rds slugs.

In the truck itself, an M82A1CQ with the baddest can and ir scope possible.

IF a 'non-conformist' PC character presents itself that isnt swat/direct action etc, ie liaison or diplomat, hostage negotiator or even analyst or executive, a compact handgun would be appropriate, in my coolguy theme an hk P10 would fit perfect in an iwb holster, 2 mags on the opposite side, maybe a silencer on a belt pouch.

our objective- obtain valuable incriminating evidence and detain high profile targets to include YOUR coolguy operators for information.

...used to write resident evil fanfic, decade+ ago. please rate gear selection /k/omrades
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