What is the best steel for a knife? What offers the most durability as well as edge retainment?
Is it 1095 cro van?
This question literally can't be answered ever. Different steels perform different ways for different scenarios.
High carbon tools steel hold great edges but will rust.
Stainless steels hold inferior (but not useless) edges and resist corrosion.
Titanium will resist corrosion but requires carbonization to hold an edge as it is too tough to be sharp on its own
Ceramics hold an edge naturally but are too brittle to be used hard.
Literally all blade properties cater to some specific function. If I had to pick favorites it would be O1, 1095, ZDP-189, 8CR13MOV, and S30V. All those cover different niches and perform adequately. But no one is exactly better IMHO
For any answer to come close to decent you will tell us what you are using it for.
>Cutting plastic wrap off incoming material ?
Folding boxcutter with disposable blades.
>General pocket knife to wear during the day?
Litterally does not matter, or same as above.
>Generic hipster knife of special snowflake alloy?
Who fucking cares?
CPM S30V is probably the most baller steel for medium to large general purpose knives and swords. Crucible particle metallurgy steels are expensive as fuck, and require exacting heat treat and temper regimes though.
1095 is a nice 10xx series steel that was originally designed to be spring steel. Like leaf springs in horse drawn carriages. It's pretty easy to heat treat well and sharpens easily. Wouldn't go over large Bowie size in 1095, great for anything smaller. It's cheap, it rusts easily, but you can sharpen it on a rock to near shaving sharp.
Hundreds of steels out there OP, all designed for particular things and applications. Learn and buy and learn. There is no one perfect steel
That's why you hone it depending on use, touching up the edge is far easier than sharpening, and oiling doesn't really take that long at all. and for the purpose of the topic I am referring solely to knives
That's like asking who is the best runner: A sprinter or a marathon runner?
Steels are not good or bad in an absolute sense. The question is which steels are most suited for which applications.
The first thing to keep in mind is that blade thickness, edge thickness, edge coarseness and quality of heat treatment will all be much bigger influences on a knife's performance than the steel choice will be.
After that, the question has to start with the application. What do you need the knife to be good at should dictate which steels are appropriate.
M4 is my favorite so far. I think it's the closest I've seen to that perfect balance of toughness, edge retention, and not being too difficult to sharpen. S30v/s35vn are also nice.
I can't say this is the best steel, but my vote goes to 5160. See, I'm lazy. I prefer a (mostly) maintenance free blade, or in other words, one I don't have to constantly oil and/or clean to keep it from rusting. I also prefer an actual real carbon steel blade. 5160 is the best of both worlds. Its chrome alloy carbon steel. It has the strength, flexibility and tenacity of carbon steel and the rust and corrosion resistance of stainless steel.
1095 is a good steel but when it is heat treated by a company like LTWK they can really make it exceptional.
Say I wanted a bayonet for a rifle, 7 inches in blade length, 1 inch wide and about 1/5th of an inch thick.
what would be the best combination of steel and construction ect to hold a basic edge while still being strong enough for stabbing while mounted and survival brushwork?
chill, dude. He's just some troll who's shitposting other people's knives.
And the post you replied to doesn't even make sense - LT doesn't use 1095 (he uses a2, d2, o1, and 1075 in one case).
>Edge retention and apex stability
what is Apex Stability exactly? and could you give a rough estimate on what the price could be? Assume I am just getting the blade manufactured and have all of the other parts such as handle, mount, ext.
go away satan.
People overestimate the importance of steel, like it's a magic metal or something. Mithril swords anybody?
A 1095, A2, or O1, 5/32'' thick blade that's about 4.5-4.75 inches long with proper heat treat will be tough and take a good edge.
There's a bunch of makers that still do the thick "survival knife" thing, but for bushcraft/general purpose knives, 1/8'' is becoming the standard, and for good reason.
If you want uber-toughness, go for something like that retarded jagdkommando kampfdildo (or whatever it's called) - doesn't work as a knife though.
For normal use, a good maker is more important, and you will pay for that - you're looking at anywhere from 170 dollars, to well over 400, especially if you go for "legendary status" makers like busse, etc.
Pretty much this.
I spent about a couple months researching different metal properties of most knives I look at online, was very interesting.
Reminds me of a question a saw aked over and over on NASIOC;
"Whats the best turbo?"
The answer is any quality brand and on the spool's spectrum you desire (low to high end). It's not which one but What kind of turbo you want,same for metals; 'Whats it being used for/how will you use it?'
Apex stability is the ability of a steel to resist rolling or chipping (micro or macro scale) in thin cross sections.
Basically, wear resistance generally describes how long an edge will last slicing cardboard while apex stability indicates how long an edge will last push cutting zip-ties or whittling.
Generally, steels with very fine grain structures and low to moderate carbide volumes will have higher apex stability.
S30V is not a very good choice for backpacking or outdoors use, really.
For backpacking and such you want steels with a lot of toughness that are thus at a very low risk of gross failure (visible chipping, breaking, etc).
For that type of use 3V (ideal) ,1095, VG-10, Aus-8, AEB-L, 14c28, etc type steels are much better than something like S30V with has high wear resistance, low apex stability, and low toughness (comparatively).
>Right now the top 3 are INFI for toughness, 3V for edge retention, and Mission's Titanium for rust imperviousness
This is why you need to be careful about who you listen to in online knife communities.
Most of the posters literally have no fucking idea of what they are talking about beyond parroting what they have read others say and/or marketing nonsense said by makers.
The rest have alterior motives, either because they are shilling, or because they enjoy misleading others.
INFI is by far the toughest.
The guy from Survive! has experimented recently and has come up with a super 3v he cannot market yet.
And the titanium from Mission is the toughest existing on knives, to add to the fact they don't rust.
Are you a faggot or what?
Depends of heat treating and geometry.
Even if it was heat treated by Crucible, some companies like Bark River fuck up their steels because they power grind them to oblivion, generating excess heat and as I said fucking up the properties.
I have a Chris Reeve Pacific in S35VN and while it takes a jolly good edge, it also looses it in no time. Edge flattens easy and readily.
When you claimed that 3V was the best steel for edge retention you immediately proved that you literally know NOTHING about materials properties and are just repeating shit you've read.
Fuck off and stop misleading people with regurgitated nonsense.
That's because you got memed into buying a knife from pleb catcher dickhead who deliberately under-hardens his knives.
do you own any S30V? if so, how does that compare to your CRP S35VN?
I've heard about the power grind thing fucking up ZT's Elmax, but haven't heard shit about their S35VN. in fact, there's some English-subtitled Youtube video where a Russkie takes a ZT S35VN folder (0550 I think) through a test and it stands up very well. is every individual blade different or should I expect similar results since mine are also ZT S35VN?
>you will never own a Gough Custom
I own 2 more Chris Reeves in s30V, but he is known for fucking up his steels with poor heat treatment (he has the retarded idea that if he makes them softer they'll be easier to sharpen, when in fact what happens is that they're both soft AND brittle. They shatter).
One I dont use and the other one performs well, but it's very small (prof soldier).
The folding knife on my Leatherman is s30v and it outperforms both of Chris Reeve's knives.
With the Professional Soldier I've gotten flat spots, but my leatherman is still going strong after cutting and carving bamboo and stabbing cans.
I dont want to. They're ugly and nothing special.
He keeps getting better but he's far, faaar behind in the manufacturing process.
His steel treatment is spartan and crude as fuck. Almost primitive.
Look for example at his liquid nitrogen treatment. That's normally done in a vacuum with a controled pressure. What he does is equivalent to sharpening knives with files or heating them in coals in a fire.
He ditches his knives in a fucking cooler full of liquid nitrogen for fuck's sake.
Also he uses a home-made oven.
Gough is a good marketer because his workshop is extremely clean and good-looking, and his knives are lean and non-aggressive looking.
Good Youtuber, not so good knifemaker.
Also I think they're ugly as fuck, and they dont have the most comfortable handles
WTF you on about now? Sword steel needs to have some flex. Something S30V is not at all good at being.
I'm not a sword expert or anything but I would be wary of any sword designed for combat that is S30V.
I like S30V in a folder but I'd prefer something else even in a smaller fixed blade.
That is irrelevant to my point.
My point is his knives are nothing special in any way, so I dont want to own one.
He has to move up in the manufacturing process, there's not a lot of things he can do with the resources he has at the moment.
Otherwise his knives will always be more mediocre than other makers with better stuff
No knife will ever come close to the usefulness of a one inch OLFA.
There are many more makers and yes, there are some that dont heat treat.
If their stock removal technique is good, this is no problem and may in fact be better for performance than home-made knives.
For example Winkler knives are stock removal but are mighty reliable.
Whatever steel LWTK uses in theirs. I trust their expertise and commitment to quality and craftsmanship.
I wanted to say many more makers better than him, somehow I missed that word.
If you outsource your heat treatment you have deserve no credite as a knife maker, you can't control 100% your product, fact.
What do you say about Survive knives? Good, bad, awesome, shit? What's your opinion do I can just know if you know shit about what we're talking about.
Personally I dont give a shite about knifemaking credit. If it works it works, if it doesnt it doesnt.
Survive! are top fucking notch and getting better. I'd personally tweak his designs but overall they're some of the most functional in the market (for the high end semi-production knives I mean).
The guy that makes them made a video not so long ago talking about a new heat treat of ·V that could potentially rival INFI.
I dont like his fanbase though. It's becoming as obnoxious and vomitive as the Busse fanbase. Just read through Bladeforums to see whan I'm talking about.
I also dont like his production schedules. It's currently worse than Busse, in that their knives are always pre-ordered and always out of sale.
As I expected you're someone from Survive! PR personnel or Guy himself, now I see why you shit on Gough's products. That's sad lad.
Just joking, I follow Survive! on youtube and I've read Survive! threads on Bladeforums, they really make a good product and tough as hell. I do still think you're being harsh as shit to Gough, he has a super comfy chanel and have improved is skills along the way, you can't expect it to be perfect in the blink of an eye. Many manufactures don't even cryo threat their knives, he does it even if it's rudimentary.
Yeah dude, what I mean is that I dont see any appeal on his knives.
I own expensive knives and top performers like Busses, but I also enjoy more humble knives like the ones made locally.
I'm just amazed at some people believing Gough makes some top notch shit. It's ok, but that's it. The best thing about it is the Dark Souls name.
Also I dont own a fucking Survive! because of their retarded sales pitch of not having fucking knives in stock. That Guy should perhaps hire more people.
I just picked up this Manix 2 with s110v steel. At $100 it seemed like a good price. What is the consensus on this steel? Will it basically be impossible to sharpen once it is dull?
Requires diamond plates or highly friable silicon carbide stones to sharpen in a timely manner.
Extremely high wear resistance, primary mode of wear is microscopic chipping/carbide tear out, very low apex stability, very low toughness.
Well suited for extended use in cutting of abrasive but soft materials like cardboard or carpet when run at a coarse apex finish because it will microscopically self-serrate in use.
Will be terrible at at a high-grit finish trying to push cut. Care required to avoid side-loading the edgebto avoid risk of macroscopic chipping due to brittleness.
Is this thing any good? Is Atlanta cutlery any good?
I've had a growing desire to buy a bowie knife for inna woods but I don't know if there are any good options
I hammered (with a hammer) my Team Gemini into my driveway for giggles. Some stropping brought the edge back to pre-hammer sharpness.
I prefer Benchmade's 154CM for EDC though. Takes a nasty edge, and it's easy to sharpen.
Love me some O1, OP. Super easy to work with, hardens and tempers easily, oil quenches... holds an edge well, sharpens easy. Cuts like a razer, even without a terribly fine grind.
Pic related is my attempt to work with D2. Attempted an oil quench, because that's easy. Bad juju on D2... Very bad. Warped, cracked, broke.
Generally most edc knives are stainless steel so they don't need to be oiled, just kept clean
For carbon steel knives a light gun oil works great, and occasionally you might need to oil the mechanical parts on folders and such
I have the Tigerstripe one, I paid $50 for a knife and got $50 worth of knife. Haven't used it since I got it since it's retard tier heavy and can't even be removed from the sheath one handed. It's mainly a lulz piece now, my friends and I just laugh at it because of how impractical it is
I bought my TGLB just over a year ago as a beater, old photo, but I haven't yet really put it through it's paces. I have seen some absolute torture given to busse knives, and they just ask for more
>At least Sebenza guy was funny and did it ironically.
No he was not and no he did not. Maybe some of the later Sebenza fags were shitposting ironically, but that's still shitposting. Fun fact: the person you just replied to was one of them.
The first Sebenza guy was just mad that people shat on his S&W tacticool folder many moons ago.
>The whole point was to shit on this brand that nobody ever talked about before he started posting it everywhere
Anon, he was a buttmad shitposter and I can't imagine why you're defending him.
The Coyote will be your best buddy, best companion, and go to guy while hunting or on a hike. The Coyote is a bird and trout style knife that is great at field dressing deer or small game. You will want this knife to be on your hip at all times. We start with 1/8 inch precision ground D2 tool steel and create a flat ground, multi-purpose, quality piece of cutlery. With it’s secondary cutting edge of 2 7/8 inches it will process game, make a great fuzz stick, and slice through most anything at camp.
i never bitched about either. Even if most of /k/ is butthurt jellyfags with $30 knives sperging out over "muh ganzo" and whatnot.
It's one thing to have a cheap knife (and you can do pretty well with very little if you know where to look - Condor for example). It's another thing entirely to be in hardmode denial, that a high quality knife is better than a cheap chink mystery steel.
Even with diminishing returns meaning you pay more and more for less and less.
Realistically, Delica4 and Izula2 are as good as you'll ever need, and last I checked, they were both $67-ish on bladehq. Can't afford that? Well, sucks to be you - save up some money, or get a 40-dollar kershaw and stop whining.
And if you can blow 150+ on a knife that is marginally better (but still better) than a 70 dollar one - who am I to stop you?
As for the topic at hand - powder steel (aka super steel) is equal parts technological marvel, and marketing gimmick.
Honestly - HI has some old dude in sandals working in a hut in Nepal, banging out 1st class knives from old Mercedes leaf springs. You can yak all day about the wonders of modern magic steels, but in the end, what does it matter if your knife is six times stronger than you need, or only four times - it's still waaay above the required parameters.
It's a proprietary steel used by Busse knives.
Is correct, but occasionally pic related occurs
There are occasionally models with reduced choils. The choil with holes is their trademark (legally), so it benefits them to use it.
Most knives are made to order, unless they are doing a run, so you place your order for your preferred handle material, then wait a month or two (unless they have one on hand). I stripped the coating off of my blade, which gives it the rough look it has.
Why would you do that to knife other than because you can?
>inb4 to test the toughness under hard use
It's a knife that does not sees really usage, it's more something to take pics of it and post in social media and brag about it other than use it as a proper tool.
Also sometimes is seen as an investment.
I'm not really worried about breaking the knife in any way, so why not. I've done quite a few things to my Busse just because I can. I took a healthy swing at a barbed-wire fence once.
To give you some credit at least you use it and have fun with it. If I had a Busse(maybe one day, they're not that expensive) I would for sure hard use it but in /out/doors but would not feel comfortable smashing it against hard floor, no matter how good the product or the garanty are.
>fuck it I broke the tip
>no problem send it back and we take care of you
>2 months later knife arrives to my hands again
>why does this knife not have a proper place to brace your thumb?
... It does?
>If you tried to stab someone in the chest you would slice yourself quite bad.
Stop parroting things you read on the internet. A guard is usually preferable, but plenty of knives in human history were made without guards, usually to aid in concealment.