There was a picture circulating on Facebook, it showed the guy shot had his pistol on his right hip and that he reached down with his left hand. Conservatives were ranting about how the evil Obama FBI murdered him because he couldn't have grabbed his pistol with his off hand and was I stead trying to hold his wound.
If a nigger was shot under these exact circumstances they would be praising the Feds and saying that his supporters should find jobs.
>>28738415 I do sympathize with there gripes on a few levels bit they handled the whole situation the wrong way. Just like with all the din du shootings, until the investigation is complete who really know?
>>28738415 Because, like most tribal minded right wing authoritarians (google it), they respect the source of information more than the information itself. Thus facts do not matter, only the perceived loyalty to the tribe of the person making the statement matters.
>>28738415 Looking from outside I will never understand this western logic, I have the right to fight you, you have no right to fight me. Be it with blacks, white "revolutionaries", neo-Nazis and even governments with terrorists. If you point a gun at someone don't be surprised when they shoot back at you.
>writes an apocalyptic novel about ranchers going to war with the government >travels hundreds on miles to Oregon on the flimsiest premise possible in order to attempt to force the government into another Ruby Ridge/Waco >makes multiple statements on the record about not being taken alive
The hypocrisy on both sides of this issue is staggering.
Conservatives and reactionaries are acting like the absolute worst elements of anti-police-violence elements the instant the person killed looks like them, without a shred of self-awareness or empathy toward actual innocent people killed by cops.
Liberals are celebrating police violence because it happened to someone they didn't like for once.
The truth of the matter is this bunch of carpetbagging retards with messiah-complexes have made the government look really reasonable and even-handed, and hurt their cause (and probably our gun rights, long term) in a really profound way.
It's really rich to travel thousands of miles to tell people that you can't tell people what to do with their land and ignore them when they ask you to leave and do whatever you want with their land.
And it's REALLY rich to watch Ammon Bundy fold so hard and so fast to get a lesser sentence by cooperating, and to watch all the holdouts freak out because they "don't wanna go to prison" if they surrender.
What happened to "live free or die?" What happened to "by any means necessary?" What happened to "daddy swore an oath?"
>>28738415 >Cop shoots a black guy reaching for the cop's gun
SUPPORT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY #BLUELIVESMATTER
>Cop shoots a white guy reaching for his own gun
THEM FUCKIN' FEDS REVOLUTION NAO
>>28739224 The entire country is starting to fall victim to aggressive sectarianism, hence the current crop of presidential candidates. On the one side you have the architect of some of America's most disastrous foreign policy decisions, and on the other you have a bloated windbag who jokes about killing journalists and one of the pinnacles of his campaign is basically a promise to commit ethnic cleansing and strip millions of Americans of their citizenship
>The entire country is starting to fall victim to aggressive sectarianism, hence the current crop of presidential candidates. On the one side you have the architect of some of America's most disastrous foreign policy decisions, and on the other you have a bloated windbag who jokes about killing journalists and one of the pinnacles of his campaign is basically a promise to commit ethnic cleansing and strip millions of Americans of their citizenship
>>28738415 You see his hands up and then go down and he does a few weird arm movements before falling?
His hands were up until the first shot, then they dropped, he gesticulated more at further shots.
At least, that's what I would say if I was his lawyer and that what I'ev heard happened from other sources.
>my real 2 cents This video is not definitive in either way as I see it, and the group that pushes for it as 100% proof positive evidence is probably the group that is full of shit. Also, who can really be a credible witness here?
If there was SOUND, then we'd be having a better conversation.
>>28738415 >Reading Waco/Ruby Ridge threads >Everyone agrees the feds should have just arrested the people that they had warrants for during one of their trips into town instead of assaulting their compound >Feds do exactly that here >/k/ is still butthurt even though the feds did exactly what /k/ recommended
>>28742125 That's not even a suggestion I've seen in a ruby/waco thread. Most people just fume over an unnarmed woman being shot while holding a baby, and unarmed man shot while crying over his dead son, a boy shot in the back while running home AFTER shooting at wannabe spooky-operators in unpatched (due to laziness I think) camo who had just shot the boy's dog dead in front of him.
Then another faget will usually show up to bait and say "the government did nothing wrong, stfu about changing the government, pick up that can."
>>28742181 I see it pop up as an alternative solution every now and then, but I usually don't bother looking at most of those threads. It turns into a weird circle jerk of internet tough guys more often than not.
The plan for Ruby Ridge called for a surrender to be issued to the family, but no call for surrender was ever given. The only specifications given to the law enforcement personnel was "if they're an adult, shoot them."
Literally. Google it. Most of the LEOs said "that's fucked," and didn't listen. But it only took one sniper named Lon Hirouchi I think to decimate that family.
And then they let Lon drive a tank and shoot more guns at Waco.
I'm sure they'll award the guys who shot up the people in the op vid too.
>>28742224 The fact of the matter HERE though is they still killed a person, and shot at least one more while trying to shoot at all of them. The feds are pushing this video as full proof that their narritive is true, but can you even tell for sure who fired the first shot? What about total shots fired? We never even see the shooting of the other militia guy. Not to mention how fucking illogical the government's story on what happened is, from Finicum's perspective.
It's important evidence for sure, but I have a terrible hinkey feeling because the government wants it to just stop with this video.
So the officer that was "almost hit" by the truck (aka jumped in front of their vehicle) feels threatened for his life. Said officer gets up after Finicum is out of the truck with his hands in the air and opens fire. Finicum covers his wound and gets unloaded on shortly there after.
How dare he resist the federal government. Got what he deserves.
>>28738415 You can't see the muzzle flash in that video so you don't know when the officers started firing. For all we know they shot him in the side so he'd instinctively reach to cover his wound, making it look like he was reaching for his gun so they'd have an excuse to unload into him
>>28742406 >>28742435 That's a hell of a lot of planning and forethought just to kill one random guy. If they were hellbent on killing glorious freedom fighters they could have just raided the federal building or lit the car up when it tried to run the roadblock and never released any video of the incident.
It's almost like they had a pretty solid plan to arrest everyone in the truck and a guy got shot because it was a dangerous situation involving armed men, but that can't be true because it doesn't involve an illogical government conspiracy to kill one nobody.
If this was a video of the end of a high speed chase in LA or video of a car that ran a roadblock in Iraq no one would bother talking about it because it wouldn't be interesting or noteworthy in any way. Exactly what you expect to happen happens.
>>28742545 Jesus H. fuck. I'm not a Trump guy, but post the sauce for the crazy bullshit he's accusing Trump of.
Shooting journalists? Stripping people of citizenship? The actual fuck? Immigration control is ethnic cleansing now...? Lemme tell you what ethnic cleansing IS, cocksucker. It's when your own legislature gives 3 million illegals drivers licenses then passes a nice progressive law to register EVERYBODY to vote automatically when they get their license, and everybody thinks this is fine and specialful when it's the biggest fucking act of electoral fraud in American history. And just in time for the next election.
They tape it all, news gets what they want the news to get.
I really don't think conspiracy. They tape everything because of the propaganda value of catching the militiamen being instigators in a fight. Not that they push that Finicum reached for his gun thus instigating, and also a stream of anti-milita "they just ter'rists" attached to the fed side of this video.
The video is actually pretty ambiguous though. I can't say if he was reaching for a gun, or dropped his hands after being shot and then further dumped on. Unless there is some video magicry to enhance this, no one could reasonable say either narritive for sure happened based on this video.
BUT, we do have a history of the militia guys not being the first to shoot in standoofs, we do have a history of LEOs being first to shoot for a myriad of BAD reasons.
I don't think Finicum made the stupid move to draw with 2 or 3 people visibly drawing on him.
I think this was just a jumpy, nervous guy with a gun, been stuck outside in that shit all winter, finally some "action" happens, and the LEO shot when he shouldn't have. But more like manslaughter, not murder.
>>28742662 >The video is actually pretty ambiguous though. I can't say if he was reaching for a gun, or dropped his hands after being shot and then further dumped on. Unless there is some video magicry to enhance this, no one could reasonable say either narritive for sure happened based on this video.
This is the biggest problem I have with all of this. It's annoying when people are obviously less concerned about the truth than about pushing their particular politics.
>I don't think Finicum made the stupid move to draw with 2 or 3 people visibly drawing on him. >I think this was just a jumpy, nervous guy with a gun, been stuck outside in that shit all winter, finally some "action" happens, and the LEO shot when he shouldn't have. But more like manslaughter, not murder.
That's probably the most reasonable speculation I've heard on /k/ so far. Do we even know if the guys at the roadblock were FBI or sheriffs? Every time I've seen feds like the marshals or DEA in my state they usually just send a few guys and wrangle up local law enforcement for the boots on the ground stuff.
>>28738415 He didn't really do anything wrong. He fought for what he believed in. That being said, everyone who fights for freedom should understand that doing so entails the possibility of death or incarceration. The police were justified in shooting Finicum, but they were on the wrong side. Would you say a German soldier in WW2 was in the wrong for shooting an American soldier who was trying to kill him?
>>28738415 why is /k/ using republican logic for an ambush
>puts roadblock around a curve >on icy road >expects him to break in time????????nope >swerves outta way, damit he wont ram us >*i know >*jumps in front of vehicle >*gets grazed >*open fire >he survives >gets out and walks into plan open area for them to see him with arms over head >deep ass snow, loses balance >reaching reaching >*bang bang* >he clutches wound and forgets to hold up hands >*BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG* >doesnt release any tapes with audio to cover up their execution through ambush
>>28743775 You missing the part where the militia guys sped away from a traffic stop. If the cops wanted to kill people why did they try that first? Why did they bring the K-9?
The Dorner manhunt has proven that if cops want to kill people they absolutely can, there's no season for this looney toon bullshit where they set up a series of wacky traps to force one dude into a no win secnario.
>>28742600 He's openly said he's going to deport every "illegal" and their "anchor babies", many of whom are in their 20s and 30s at this point, and the grand total of all those people comes to around 40-50 million, or almost a quarter of the American population. And you haven't heard him yukk about shooting Journalists, Putin-style?
>>28743874 >no they cant kill in a situation where a camera will prove the victim innocent >"I know, we do it with a drone, that way they can see whats going on in grainy film, and cant hear us shoot first! win-win!"
anyway, audio and/or officer go-pro footage will never be released.
and heres basically one take on it:
Basically, >FBI decides "Extreme prejudice" is gonna be the RoE. >Pull them over without probable cause >Have drug dog ready for when they drop in the duffle full of kilos >Edit out the footage of them scooting around the first roadblock (Fadeout) >FBI attempts to dive in front of SUV for the sweet "Attempted Murder" charge and those awesome healthcare benefits that come with "wounded in the field", also immediate escalation to "intent to kill, remove threat" >Guy gets out hands in the air into thigh-high snow. officer in front of him trips all over himself trying to stay out a tree spooks line of impending fire >4 spooks in plate carriers shoot him in the hip with rubber bullets to get the OSP to trip up on their adrenaline rush and shoot the fucker. (Reaching into his LEFT pocket with his RIGHT hand, allegedly to get a 9mm they 'found') >Tree spook teleports and then Juan Deeg's him in the head, even though he had no visual of what the suspect was reaching for or if he had even grabbed anything, while the 4 armored spooks behind the trucks are in his direct LoF >double flashbang >everyone lights up the truck full of innocent bystanders that have yet to be determined if a threat with gunfire. >Woman exits real slow like, and sees her father bleeding out in the snow. Didn't watch the rest, have better things to do with my time.
>>28743874 >which is why they setup the block the way they did
Or maybe they aren't moushtache twirling villains and they set up the roadblock around corner so the suspects couldn't stop well short and run into the woods. Like, maybe they were trying to arrest them and didn't want a prolonged search. Just a thought.
>>28743830 Cops aren't a homogeneous entity. It's a bunch of people, many stupid, and stupid ideas sometimes go into action. The worst I can think of is Waco, or even more proven is Ruby Ridge (though actually less happened). Waco and Ruby had fairly higher level people fucking drop the ball and too many people "just followed orders" below them. But smaller versions of stuff like that, with only a handful of complicit LEOs happens constantly, I mean literally constantly. There's more of that type of corruption that the their own internal review people can handle. The result is like triage, they can't stop every plot, or catch every bad cop.
I think Waco and Ruby have stood out because public attention demanded answers, and it really seemed like someone with enough rank decided we didn't need answers.
Over all government conspiracy? No. A broken and corrupt bureaucratic system where fuck-ups are more severe because they deal with people's actual lives? Yes.
>>28743990 in which case will be a movie about rag heads occupying a government facility and swat team 69 will go in to OV Vey the situation only to come under heavy fire from terrorist militants in a huge betrayal and huge car chase with said terrorists shooting at Shoah Team 69million only for a dramatic conclusion of Shekel Team 6trillion shooting the evil masterminded Lavoy the Gas chamber Goy in the head causing them to careen off the cliff with an American Flag in the background waving so brilliantly while the music playing is literally just "murica "murica" repeating backwards in the background so the audience doesn't get the brainwashing
I can see it now
>"10/10 FBI critics advisory department" >"9/10 Fox News: coulda used more militia killin" >"10/10 MSNBC: had our hearts racing with all the 2nd amenders goriness" >"9/11 ATF: not enough winter dogs"
>>28738497 I agree, probably not the best idea to leap to judgement like the Dindus did with Michael Brown and Trayvon. >>28742483 >>28742303 >Pic related Nah, judging from the released video, they're actually making an effort to be transparent about this. I do hope they release some body cams or dash cams as well.
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