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Faux news says this video was from a "FBI...
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Faux news says this video was from a "FBI SPYPLANE".

Was it actually from a drone instead?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-fatal-shooting-armed-occupier-oregon-wildlife-refuge.html?intcmp=hpbt3

How will Drone use affect police operations in the future?
>>
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b6_1454033417

I guess I'll bump this one because the other one is 150 posts over the bump limit.
What the fuck was with the agent diving in front of the car? Was he thinking he'd heroically square up and shoot the driver, like they were going to make it through the snow and have a chase? What the fuck?
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>>28724662
Most likely he didn't see the swerve into the snow and thought the cars would be hit.
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>>28724662
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>>28724548

I wouldn't doubt they had a drone overhead, it's like a 24 hour on-station helo, without the manpower.

Overall this video, in my drunken state, makes me lose credibility in the entire oregon militia thing.
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>>28724548
RIP LaVoy Finicum
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>>28724802
The "we didn't bring enough supplies, pls send some even though we're free to go buy groceries at any time" bit didn't?

Or the fact that they took over a facility completely unrelated to anything they were "protesting."

The "we came here to die" talk didn't help, either.
>>
>>28724548
>Was it actually from a drone instead?
No, not likely. Even for government operators, operating professional-grade unmanned aircraft is still a massive bureaucratic pain in the ass. Much easier just to strap a stabilized camera to a helicopter or plane.
>>28724802
>without the manpower
Oh, how incredibly wrong you are.
>>
>>28724548
Is it legal for U.S. citizens to own microwave radar?
>>
>>28724548
Possibly, but that doesn't mean all recce is handled by UAVs, plenty of manned spy planes.

Especially based around the King Air 350 airframe.
>>
>>28724921
Probably. Can't use it without a valid FCC license.
>>
>>28724802
>24 hour on station help, without the manpower...

>>28724909
>Oh, how wrong you are...

Pls, enlighten us. I would figure the TOTAL logistical demand for a UAV per flight hour would be quite low compared to a helicopter. Both aircraft require fuel, pilots, and a ground crew, but wouldn't a helicopter require much more than a UAV?
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>>28724662
Looks like his hands actually were kind of up.

Huh

I mean they were on his abdomen before he got shot but still.
>>
>>28725007
doesn't matter, going for his gun or not the fucker deserved it.
>>
>>28724943
Interdasting. I'm sure that as soon as someone uses their legal radar to paint a drone watching a freedom movement group, they will lose their FCC license weather or not they were doing anything wrong.

We can't have pleb little civilians posing a valid threat to almighty infallible agents of government, now can we?
>>
>>28724905

I saw the faint glimmer of hope that they were the ones in the right, the video just validated it

>>28724909
>>28724987

I'm drunk give me a break. Honestly, manpower that can take 15 minutes to change out the guard for an a/c above is better than a helo taking 30m to 1h to refuel, refit, and reman.
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>>28724548
I'm reading Relentless Strike right now and while it isn't about the FBI, one of their aerial ISR assets was just a civilian prop plane with a spherical camera kind of like one of those FLIR balls. It'd probably be more affordable for the FBI to get one of those. It doesn't always have to be spoopy flying killer government robots that are so hot these days
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>>28725007
to me it looks like he was turning to grab a gun so the guy in front of him couldn't grab it but that guy in the woods snuck up on him and he didn't know he was there to see him be crafty.
Though it does look like they're just firing on the truck after they throw their flashbangs, but I can't say if the occupants were firing out of it.
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>>28724829
Impressive tarp.

The Russians should deploy this in Ukraine and there would be nothing America could do about it.
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>>28725166
see him grabbing for his gun*
not try to grab it from him
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>>28724905
You didn't read this did you?

http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/facts-events-in-hammond-case.html
>>
>>28725166
You claim he was about to cross draw?

From most pictures it appears he carried a revolver on the right side normally.

The bottom line for me is that I need a better video in order to accurately ascertain exactly what happened.

A better video is out there. I hope we see it.
>>
>>28725197
>Using their opinion blog on it
The only problem with the Hammond case is federal minimum sentencing guidelines, which they didn't care about until white ranchers got fucked by it.
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>>28725210
I thought I read that the officers found 9mm in a pocket where he was reaching.
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>>28725210
Oh yeah I will wait for better footage before making the call.
It is very difficult to actually see whats going down, plus synced audio would be really nice. Maybe he was turning around like an officer asked? Maybe he was stumbling and he moved his hands in a motion people didn't like? Maybe he was trying to pull a gun.
Hard to tell at this point.
You would think if he was going full shoot out stand off he wouldn't run away from his only piece of cover, he probably would have stood behind the truck and started firing.
Maybe some pseudo-suicide-by-cop thing... Just have to wait.

Not like it will change anything if they flat out murdered him anyway.
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>>28725242
Yep.
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why the fuck would you keep reaching down like that?
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>>28725145
Buddha?
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>>28725220
I know that it is Bundy's blog, I just think it is worthwhile to consider both sides of the story.

The Feds claim that the Hammonds were arsonists, with the supposed motive of covering up illegal poaching.

The Bundy's and the militia support the narrative that the fires started by the Hammonds were for legitimate ranching purposes such as invasive species control and back burning. The ostensible motive for the federal government to prosecute them is to force them into jail as to make it easier to "buy" their land, in vein with the slow BLM land grab from ranchers that has been occurring across the American west for decades now.

These are the two sides. I do not know which is true, or to what degree each is true/false.

>>28725242
I'm sure that was in the official report. Have you heard of police carrying "backup" pistols to plant on perps? This was a joint task force between state troopers and FBI. So basically FBI.

>>28725258

From this testimony it seems they may have begun shooting before he put his hands down. That is assuming the truth of this testimony however.

Starts at 2:04, she claims FBI/Troopers were shooting at the truck before the roadblock, but stopped once the truck stopped in the snow. LaVoy gets out with hands up, then they shoot him with his hands in the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg

Consider the testimony and then watch the footage again.

Her testimony seems to correspond to around 5:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDQ6zb1Taq4
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>>28725325
some anons suggested that he had been shot and was reacting to that. The video is too low-res to tell though, even zoomed in and in slow mo I couldn't see the officers firing even though right after he dropped from being shot
>>
>>28725372
>BLM land grab from ranchers
Ranchers getting a taste of their own medicine. Delicious.
>>
>>28725372
If that testimony is true thats all kinds of fucked up. But like I said earlier it won't matter.
He was duh evul turrorist who was overthrowing murrica!
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>>28725325
He was looking for his pocket Constitution so he could repeatedly ask the FBI agents to show him where it says they can exist before awkwardly devolving into shouting AM I BEING DETAINED.

Also his gun.
>>
I get that unnecessarily hating on law(n) enforcement is edgy and childish, but why should I sit here and believe that everything they say is true and that the guy they shot deserved it?
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>>28725465
Consider:
http://public.callutheran.edu/~chenxi/phil345_122.pdf

>>28725389
>>28725325

This testimony supports that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg

Hopefully the truth of LaVoy's death will be established with better footage from the ground or more Testimony by the other occupants of the truck, the Bundy's included. Considering that the Bundy's are in federal custody however, I doubt they'll come forward with such a damning testimony, even if it were true.

More importantly though than determining the truth surrounding LaVoy's death is determining the truth surrounding the conviction of the Hammonds for arson. We can choose to believe the Judge and jury, or the Bundy narrative:

http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/facts-events-in-hammond-case.html

Also interesting:
http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Hammond-v-United-States-Oregon-Petition-for-Writ-of-Certiorari-Filed-June-17-2013.pdf

Rest in peace LaVoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CN90dAbC5Y
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>>28725372
>The Feds claim that the Hammonds were arsonists
Because they did burn down 160 acres of federal land. They admit it. They also want the Bundys to fuck off.
>>
Why is it that so many anons shit on these guys while in the catalog not three bars away is a "Build your own militia" thread?
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>>28725372
>>28725526
>Believing the testimony of an 18 year old already shook up by high speed stop into snowbank, had no way to frame context of what's happening, probably had no good sightline of the shooting, and was inclined to sanctify LaVoy
>>
>>28725325
because you are reacting to being shot
>>
>>28725561
then who's should we listen to?
The agents?
The media?
Why are they any more credible?
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>>28725561
>believing the testimony of feds and murderers
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>>28725598
The media never misses a chance to report on police misconduct or a questionable police shooting on video. Only people emotionally connected to the protesters' cause can reach your conclusion.
>>
>>28725531
It is possible that the federal acreage burned was burned on accident. Arson has malicious intent.

There is also the possibility that the Hammonds purposely lit federal land on fire or let the fire spread to federal land, but still for the purpose of invasive species control and or backburning. If that is the case I think we all agree they shouldn't being going to jail as felons.

Also consider the possibility that the Hammonds cut ties with the militia to make the terms of their incarceration more favorable. The eldest Hammond is some 75 years old. He might not have much of a fight in him.

>>28725561
I made not claim to the veracity of the testimony.

I do claim that it is our responsibility as rational free Americans to consider the justice and truth of any given situation from as many reasonable perspectives as possible. Since the inception of this country, among these perspectives are included some which are at odds with the narrative purported by the Federal government. These perspectives deserve special consideration in the light that a tyrannical government is a much greater evil than a tyrannical man.

Broadly speaking, individual rights trump collective rights. Individual negative rights theory is what this country was founded on.

Please read some political philosophy of John Locke, and Thomas Paine.
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>>28725614
>The media never misses a chance to report on police misconduct or a questionable police shooting on video.
only if the people being shot aren't white.

this same media has been painting these guys as the literal devil for nearly a month.
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>>28725325
>reaching with his right hand
>for a gun in his left pocket

also
>man never seen without his SAA strapped to his right hip

>only found a 9mm on him

if this isnt fishy as fuck then idk what is
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>>28725627
Doesn't matter, you have to try pretty hard to distort what you see in the video to make Tarpman the victim. He's going for his waist while staring at a gun, he knows what's coming next. He's not a martyr, just an fool.
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>>28725614
That simply isn't true.

It is highly likely that the mainstream media is primarily controlled by interests in line with the ever expanding federal government.

Police misconduct and questionable shootings in metropolitan areas and involving black or hispanic people have a very different flavor than what we're seeing in Oregon.
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>>28725641
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>>28725641
No you don't have to try that hard. You can consider the following testimony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg

And the following "manifesto":
http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/facts-events-in-hammond-case.html
>>
>>28725642
I guess you're right.

Naw, I'm kidding, I think you're delusional.
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>>28725598
Put together the big picture, not just what you want to see. From the police perspective these are a bunch of armed angry men, this one especially, who have no issue telling the world that the will not go to prison peacefully, if at all. He just attempted running a roadblock. He's known to carry constantly. And he gets out of his car making motions completely inconsistent with surrender. They even gave him two chances taking his hands out of sight before shooting, and a potentially (and in this case, was) armed suspect can shoot you before you can react, even if you're already drawn on, because whoever decides to shoot first will.

All of the less plausible theory that's bouncing in these threads feel like people are wanting to see it as anything but justified. Why would they release the full video if it didn't match the official report? It's not like letting the internet scour security footage found the Boston Marathon bombers, the police figured it out.
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>>28725646
Oh, I thought the goalpost was if he was innocent, which he wasn't. I don't care if he was demonized.
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Was the agent shooting at him before he put his hands down or after?
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>>28725608
>Being this obtuse
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>>28725651
Reaching pretty hard there. You might as well try to sell me on crop circles too.
>>
>>28725651
>>
>>28725664
thats the problem, the potato video the feds releeased makes it unclear.

he could have been reaching, or reacting to being shot, but due to the shitty quality, we will likely never know


just the way the FBI wants it.
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>>28725678
Ah yes, the FBI always trying to make their actions on camera as dubious as possible.
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>>28725614
>The media never misses a chance to report on police misconduct or a questionable police shooting on video.
then what about the part where they mag dump the truck with 3 people inside after they already killed a man?

i havent seen shit about that yet.
>>
>>28725652
That's okay. I'll protect your 1st amendment right with our 2nd.

Keep searching for the truth my friend, knowing it will never be entirely found; the proper journey will have no destination, it will simply be along the right path. The process by which we determine what is most truthful, that is what is important.
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>>28725686
but will you truly ever learn if you're being detained? I don't know how I can sleep at night with question like this on my mind
>>
Complete, original, no-commentary version instead of OP's Faux news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ
>>
>>28725664
I don't know. Few people actually know.

This woman says his hands were up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg

The Feds and the Media say otherwise.

>>28725676
Sorry. I worry sometimes people just skim or skip through, instead of actually analyzing the data and reading carefully.

>>28725674
Might as well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

She will be the next president of America.
>>
>>28725711
I swear you must have grew up in a house with lead paint
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>>28725678
Ok. I was just wondering as even the black/white video fails to adequately show the moment the agent starts firing
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>>28725711
You aren't providing any additional sources except an unreliable witness going against known characterization of the deceased and whose statements don't match footage.
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>>28725695
>>28725682
>>28725676
>>28725674
>>28725666
I truly hate police and the bootlicking left wing statist scum who justify government's every action just as long as a black guy with a mile long rap sheet didn't get shot.
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>>28725717
the only additional source the feds have is the driver of the jeep

>"I didn't see the shooting, but here's exactly how it happened"
>>
>>28725719
>Herp derp dere's no chance duh guy who said loud and proud he'd be dead before being in a cell didn't create cause for a justified shooting
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>>28725726
And these threads tend to run the "I want to see it in a way that the feds lied" opinion.
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>>28725728
He probably did. And more power to him. The whole enforcement action should've never happened. The bureau of land management should've never happened. The federal department of the interior should've never happened. The war needs to start, soon.
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>>28725717
If you claim that the footage is clear, you're delusional.

But we're all losing sight of the bigger picture:
The land rights conflict and the shrinking group of ranchers in the west.
>>
>>28725743
>>28725745
Issues the Malhuer occupation did nothing but marginalize as the cause of a bunch of crazies.
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>>28725728
He held court in the street, and I have more respect for him now because he did.

Cato died the last free man in Rome. NEVER take a tyrants pardon.
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>>28725758
>Issues the Federal Government and Mainstream Media did nothing but marginalize as the cause of a bunch of crazies.

Fixed that for you.

Life, liberty and property. The most important property being land.
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>>28725763
>>28725769
>This is what "sovereign citizens" actually believe
>>
COINTELPRO is active on 4chan
>>
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>>28725787
>Mad that people have different opinions and reactions
>Mad that /k/ isn't your hugbox
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>>28724548
>Faux news

foe news?
>>
>>28725016
>doesn't matter, going for his gun or not the fucker deserved it.

Except that is not how the constitution works retard. Get fucked hippie.
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>>28725812
Actually, its exactly how it works.

The guy made threats and resisted a lawfully obtained arrest warrent.
>>
>>28725826
>Exactly how the constitution works
>It describes desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_(philosophy)

I don't think so


>>28725787
It is maddening.
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>>28725826
so death penalty and no trail for that? Glad you don't run shit.
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>>28725220
>which they didn't care about until white ranchers got fucked by it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with minimum sentencing guidelines. The only problem is when they are improperly used to convict a person of a crime that they did not commit in the first place.
>>
>>28724905
>Or the fact that they took over a facility completely unrelated to anything they were "protesting."

You expect them to seriously take over a BLM building? Are you legitimately retarded? They just needed to bring media attention to the issue which the succeeded. No need take over a large government building when you can take over a remote building which wont endanger civilians. I'm not even going to go into how even if they wanted to do something like that it would take at least 10x as many people and supplies. This is like whining about hippies protesting at a state capital building during the vietnam war when the state has nothing to do with international affairs.
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>>28725839
No, the Constitution sets up a framework for warrents, both search and arrest. It was followed in this case.

>>28725842
>so death penalty and no trail for that?

I assume you mean trial, but no, the warrent was for arrest.

He was shot because he resisted said arrest, and threatened those carrying out said lawful duty.
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>>28725016
That's not how the law works
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>>28725879
That is exactly how the law works.

You cant threaten death to somebody carrying out lawful dutys. The officer has a right to self defense. Lavoy had a warrent and was given lawful commands, he had no legal right to go for his gun
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>>28725874
>and threatened those carrying out said lawful duty.
if you are referring to him "reaching for a gun" there's just as much evidence for that as the argument that him "reaching" was actually grasping a wound in pain as he was being shot.

if you watch the video there's a hole in the windscreen on the drivers side, its very likely at that point that they already shot him.
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>>28725890
>if you are referring to him "reaching for a gun" there's just as much evidence for that as the argument that him "reaching" was actually grasping a wound in pain as he was being shot

There is much more evidence for the former when you consider lavoys repeted statements of not being taken alive.

Furthermore, the police said they traded shots with him.
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>>28725888
that's assuming that they didnt start shooting before he made the motion for his left side.
>>
>>28725901
>There is much more evidence for the former when you consider lavoys repeted statements of not being taken alive.
that's circumstantial evidence at best and you know it.
>Furthermore, the police said they traded shots with him.
and in the video at no point does he have a gun in his hand, and the FBI report said his gun was in his left front pocket.
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>>28725907
>circumstantial evidence

Its very strong circumstanal evidence (and to add, there is nothing wrong with circumstanal evidence at all) giving a viewpoint into lavoys frame of mind. And it was not one statement, but a multitude.

>and in the video at no point does he have a gun in his hand

Well yes, that's what happens when you get shot for going for your gun.
>>
>>28725901
>Furthermore, the police said they traded shots with him
>>28725932
>Well yes, that's what happens when you get shot for going for your gun.
how can he trade shots with the feds if he never actually got to his gun then?
>>
>>28725947
I made a mistake, the early reports where that shots were traded. Reports appear to be wrong, or it was done while on the move.
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>>28725956
reports from the feds are changing very rapidly at this point, hence the distrust.

the only reports that have been consistent point to murder by fed.
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>>28725641
>Doesn't matter, you have to try pretty hard to distort what you see in the video to make Tarpman the victim.
The footage doesn't conclusively prove if the feds opened up when his hands were still out, causing him to contort or if he simply retracted his hands and then they opened fire.
It's not a stretch either way and saying you need to distort what happened simply isn't true. With no proof either way people will believe what they're predisposed to.
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>>28725956
it could also refer to all the shots the agents did at the bar after shooting the fuck out of him.
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>>28725966
>reports from the feds

The report was a news report BEFORE the feds press conference. I read it from a thread on /k/.

I dont think there has been anything inconsistent from them as they have basically said "we went for a gun, he got shot"
>>
>>28725985
Fuck, i would need a couple shots to after i had to kill some guy who tried to kill me. Shit would suck.
>>
>>28725986
>I dont think there has been anything inconsistent from them
>originally reported as never having stopped in the first place, never told otherwise untill witness in his truck said they stopped and video evidence produced.
>reported as brandishing a firearm, never corrected untill after video released
>>
>>28725457
Kek
>>
Can someone would explain to me the tactical benefits of jumping in front of a speeding car?
>>
>>28726005
All i have seen is that the FBI said a statie shot him for going for a gun.

Do you have a source that says what you said?

www.rawstory.com/2016/01/fbi-claims-slain-militant-lavoy-finicum-reached-for-a-gun-and-they-say-theyve-got-video-to-prove-it/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiEuveL2M7KAhXJtIMKHZo1CmYQFggUMAM&usg=AFQjCNEpvdSWanQYbeplQ8iJXSlKH-0uqQ
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>>28726012
your fellow agents can freely shoot the driver by saying they tried to run you over.
>>
>>28725966
>the only reports that have been consistent point to murder by fed.
Well, the entire goal was to create a new Ruby Ridge/Waco narrative of "free Americans taking a stand get murdered by the feds", so of course that side is consistent in stance.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ&ab_channel=fbi

9:14 Roadblock appears on screen

9:16 SUV swerves to left of roadblock. Unknown person (presumably a LEO) gets in trucks path.

9:17 - 9:20 scene falls out of view of the camera for a moment

9:21 Driver exits SUV with hands up.

9:27 Driver lowers his hands and reaches for his left side waist area. This has been confirmed after-the-fact as the location where Driver was carrying a loaded 9mm handgun. Thus, driver was reaching for his gun.

9:28 - 9:29 Driver puts hands back up briefly, then reaches for gun again. The video has zoomed in and he can be clearly (ish, 480p) reaching with his right hand, accross his body, and downwards towards the gun on his left hip.

9:29 - 9:31 Driver does a little dance with both hands on his hips and raising his feet up and down. It appears to be the Chicken Dance.

9:32 Driver turns away from the camera, so that his back is now facing the camera. As he begins to turn, you can see his right arm moving towards his gun again. After the turn, his right arm is accross his body in front of him and no longer visible but position of the shoulder suggests he is still reaching left and down.

9:33 Driver seems to be (video is not clear enough) hunching forward as if to run or make some other sudden move. Note that he shifts his weight to be equally balanced on both legs, a clear telegraph for sudden movement. Right arm (still viewed from behind) is still accross his body, down and left. Driver is shot by LEO from the left.

Summary:
>reached for gun 3 separate times (9:27, 9:29, 9:32)
>had hands up as he exited the vehicle, but did not keep them there.
>almost certainly (back was turned, so not 100% certain) had his hand on or near his gun at the moment he was shot (9:33).
>mocked law enforcement by doing a "chicken dance" or something that looked like it
>Appeared to be preparing for a sudden movement at the moment he was shot (video is not clear enough to be certain).
>>
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>>28725999
No celebration shots? I mean you just got to cap some unsuspecting fucker who made you sit out in the snow for hours/days.

I'd personally get piss drunk and start telling everyone I'm FBI.
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>>28726035
>No celebration shots?
they pumped those into the truck trying to murder two women and one of the Bundy kids
>>
>>28726035
>unsuspecting

Wut. By his own words lavoy knew what was coming
>>
>>28726005
Meanwhile there've been very differing statements from the militia guys, but the only one getting parroted is the 18 year-old girl because it supports the "fed murder" narrative.
>>
>>28726057
Bundy supporters dont care about the truth, man.
>>
>>28726030
I don't think so. I think these are people emboldened by the success with Bundy who thought they could do the same thing here.
None of these people strike me as the martyr types, especially at the top. As evidence I submit the eight in custody rather than body bags. If they were there to make a waco they'd be dead.
>>
>>28726049
>dumb fuck exits with hands drawn
>"Pfff. Look at this tool"
>implying he isnt going to get shot for trying to hit an agent
>>
>>28726082
>lavoy, the man who said he would go down fighting numerous times, surrendered.

You seriously belive this?
>>
>>28726096
do you seriously believe he would endanger 3 other people so he could go out in a blaze of glory?
>>
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>>28726034
>preparing for a sudden movement (video is not clear enough to be certain)
you wouldn't be able to tell that from a video if it was shot in bloody IMAX
>>
>>28726069
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/i-didnt-come-here-to-shoot-i-came-here-to-die-oregon-militia-occupiers-fess-up-to-local-reporters/
>>
>>28726108
>do you seriously believe he would endanger 3 other people so he could go out in a blaze of glory?

Based upon his numerous statements? Yes. In no uncertain terms, he was NEVER going into a concrete box.
>>
>>28726069
>>28726118
Expanding this, they were expecting a proper siege and raid and got...nothing.
>>
>>28726119
Him? No. But the man had honnor enough to not endanger 3 people so he could die a free man.

Yes, he repeatedly said he would die before going to jail, but he also repeatedly said he was not about to harm anybody.
>>
>>28726096
Uhm, yes? What else would you call that gesture he made after he exited the vehicle carrying the rest of his family? Was he trying to regain his balance and purposefully be surrounded just so he could show everyone how good of a gunslinger he was?
>>
>>28726129
>he was not about to harm anybody that was not about to harm him or put him in jail.

Fixed. He directly said he would draw on an officer who would draw on him. Pretty cut and dry, you dont draw unless you shoot.
>>
>>28726133
He had 2nd thoughts about dying, so he didnt actually draw the first time.

That was the universe giving him a second chance. He squandered it by going to draw a 2nd time.

He came their to die anon, and die he did. He knew exactly what he was doing.
>>
>>28726152
>by going to draw
or by clutching where he had been shot. judging by the hole in his windshield there's a very likely chance he had already been shot at that point.
>>
Why would a right handed man known to carry on his right side one day conveniently carry on his left side? Anyone who carries a weapon knows thats fishy. Nobody establishes a habit then one day switches. This sounds bogus.
>>
>>28726152
You're still assuming the agent did not shoot at him before he went for his gun.
>>
>>28726166
why indeed.

Why also did a man known for carrying a SAA only have a 9mm in his pocket?

this is a question i have asked numerous times and never gotten a single reply to.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjl1hefqqWI
>>
>>28726162
>hole in his windshield

How the fuck do you even think you can see a bullet hole, or any hole, with the potato quality of the video.

Screencap, and circle the "hole" please
>>
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>>28726191
windshields are laminated glass, and then to make a large visible area around bullet holes as a result
>>
>>28726215
tend*
>>
>>28726215
Lavoy is already ded, anon, you see his body.

Furthermore he just crashed into a snowbank, full of rocks and other shit that got plowed up.

What makes you think that A) it was not caused by the wreck, and B) was not caused by the shooting?
>>
>>28726224
>Lavoy is already ded, anon, you see his body.
this is the only point the windshield is visible
>A) it was not caused by the wreck
damage would have been much more widespread, and less likely to be centered at the driver seat
>B) was not caused by the shooting?
Angle of fire was nowhere near that direction.
>>
They had bodycams, did they not?
>>
>>28726233
>this is the only point the windshield is visible

Yes.

>damage would have been much more widespread,

No, all it takes is one chunk of ice to hit it, its not as if he rolled it, or its not a smaller car where it got swamped with snow, its a jacked up suburban (or simular truck, might be an excursion).

>and less likely to be centered at the driver seat

No, its equally likely to be anywhere on the windshield.

>Angle of fire was nowhere near that direction

Because bullets that pass though bodys or objects have predictable paths.
>>
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>>28726215
I see a piece of paper or a carryout box on the dash, not a shot windshield.
>>
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>>28726259
>Because bullets that pass though bodys or objects have predictable paths.
and im the conspiracy theorist...
>>
>>28726012
Clearly he expected his car to be rammed
Would you stay behind your car if you expect it to be rammed?
>>
After watching the raw video, why the fuck dod lavoy even run?

Why was he traveling at a high rate of speed?

Why ram the snowbank going so fast,it clearly disabled his truck.

Is this guy retarded? He knew he was not getting away. He could have kicked his family out of the truck, the 3 fucking minutes he sat there doing nothing. Instead he put them in danger too.

Is lavoy full fuckin retard?
>>
>>28725325
someone said earlier and it some what matchs up with the video that he was told to put his hands up(he does), turn around(appears to), then drop his weapon(reaches for waste with two hands) but then captain america came bounding out of the forrest and sees him reaching for his gun and shoots him
>>
>>28726005
this is what you get for watching FOXNews
>>
>>28726296
Because he wasn't getting arrested if he was conscious and able to try to evade or resist.
>>
>>28726179
>Why also did a man known for carrying a SAA only have a 9mm in his pocket?
Many CCW's have a carry rotation. having a small 9mm in said rotation is probable.

it doesn't really matter though, he was considered armed and dangerous, he ran from the police, he almost ran a cop over trying to get through a road block, he got out of the vehicle, he made numerous gestures consistent with going for a weapon.

that is a justified shooting by any measure.
>>
>>28726360
>he almost ran a cop over trying to get through a road block
no, he tried to go around the roadblock and a cop jumped out in front of the truck at the last second.
>>
>>28726375
the cop was clearly trying to get out of the way. this is on the person who is running from the police and resisting arrest. he almost hit and killed that cop by his unlawful actions, that is on him in every single way.
>>
>>28726401
Lol wtf is wrong with you. Dude jumped out 6 feet in I get hit like a retard.
>>
Every time I read BLM building, my brain says "Black Lives Matter building".
>>
>>28726419
See, my brain worked the opposite way. Every time I saw BLM during the Chimpening I thought of the Bureau of Land Management.
>>
>>28726412
>Dude jumped out 6 feet in I get hit like a retard.
wat?

from my cold dead fingers bad guy running from the police. speeding right for your road block. shows no sign of slowing and is heading for the car you are standing behind.
>he's headed right for us gtfo of the way!
>>
>>28726401
he started turning towards the snow several seconds before the cop jump in front of him.
>>
>>28725626
>Arson has malicious intent.
or negligence. if you toss a cigarette butt out the window in the national forest and it starts a fire, they will find you and arrest you.
>>
>>28726465
lol

so wait, you're implying that the cop jumped in front of a speeding suv, driven by anti government combatant, to what.. stop it?

don't be willfully retarded
>>
>>28726498
>don't be willfully retarded
i'm not the one jumping in front of moving vehicles.

cop did it on purpose.
>>
>>28726465
>>28726514

>he started turning towards the snow several seconds before the cop jump in front of him.

actually there is a clock on the tape. the cop reacts to his turning in less than 1 second. the turn was in the direction of the police officer.

you should turn off your trip when you post retarded shit senpai
>>
>>28726537
the cop saw him coming for several seconds, the truck was favoring the left lane, and instead of running away from the truck he runs in front of it.
either he did it on purpose or he is a massive fucking idiot, or both.
>>
>>28726564
Did it on purpose to get charges later in court
>>
>protest peacefully
>get executed by gov't

USA!
>>
>>28726564
Just because your in the left lane does not mean your not going to ram the truck in the left fucking lane.
>>
>>28726609
>go for a gun
> execution

Pls go for your gun in front of a cop trying to arrest you. Anything to rid the board of your shitposts.

I promise to say you didu nuffin
>>
the dude is a self proclaimed death-before-dishonor jihadist he said over and over again he was going out guns blazing, what are they supposed to do? wait for him to actually kill a cop before they decide he's for rral?

>whoops there goes Frank
>guess we better light him up

no. talk shit, get hit. good shoot.

also can I just say I LOVE LOVE LOVE the ppl comparing him to mike brown? ultra luls :D
>>
Have any of you tried to pull something out of the opposite pocket on your pants? It's damn near impossible because all pockets open more from the rear than straight up and down. Good luck getting something clumsy like a pistol out of your pocket with the opposite hand, try it with something easy like a wallet or some change and you'll see just how hard it is.
Also, they need to tell us what gun was found in the pocket because I'm having a hard time believing he fit one in there.
>>
>>28726647
I laughed, I lost.
>>
>>28726676
it really doesn't matter though. he made a cross draw motion. he was trying to avoid a police road block while running from the police. he was considered armed and dangerous because of his own statements to such and his actions.

that was a justified shooting m8
>>
>>28725743
NPS Ranger here, get fucked. I'd rather not have some of the most unspoiled and gorgeous wilderness left in the world get turned into touristy shitholes the same way Niagara Falls did.
>>
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Have the Oregon militia-men David Koresh as the ultimate white Dindu nuffin' good boys?
>>
>>28726749
*usurped
>>
>>28726749
>>28726761
Depends on what happens when the feds go to remove the rest of inbred from premises.
>>
>>28726702
Seriously, the guy could have been unarmed and if he did the same actions it would have been justifiable.

/k/ would be up in arms defending the cops if the guy who got shot wasnt someone they identify with. Make this a black thug with a history of smoking weed and /k/ would be cheering his death.
>>
>>28726343
So the fucker drags along his family to his martyrdom.
>>
>>28726788
Speak for yourself, i for one, think he deserved every bullet.
>>
Anyone know what happened to the last 4 holdouts?

Are they dead or arrested?
>>
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>>28725719
>>
>>28726840
Idk. Lack of news makes me think they got arrested. Last update was yesterday, they were bitching about how their armed breaking and entering was supposed to be peaceful, and the guy seemed to want to go home (too late for that)
>>
>>28725743
It won't. And if it did, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that you could actually put up a fight
>>
>>28726840
Still there. Kinda funny how the Feds don't want to give them their Waco. Good strategy.

If they want to die they have to attack.
>>
>tfw they left tons of guns lying around which libtards will be bitching about in the upcoming news coverage of the retaken refuge.

Man I hope that saturday counter protest goes well, cause the PPN guys says they want 'thousands' to 'peacefully protest' but make no promises.

And they kind of dropped the ball when the bundy boys told them to go home, when they really shouldn't have.
>>
>>28726882
lol those last four are probably thinking, Fuck, now what do we do?
>>
>>28726360
>justified shooting by any measure
drops the mic and walks off the stage
>>
and now we see how an uprising ends kids, yanking on a half flaccid penis willing it to change but ultimately giving up on the effort because it's futile, half-assed and your hungry.
>>
>>28726976
>uprising ending.
Lol only like 10 guys got arrested and now the FBI has posed footage of their martyr getting gunned down.

Literally hundreds of militia and sympathizers have been in and out and while on watchlists are still free.

And Burns is still loaded with militia staying over which is the real scary point.
>>
>>28727001
>Literally hundreds of militia and sympathizers
Literally the rest of the 322 million citizens don't give a shit.
>>
>>28727001
>FBI has posed footage of their martyr committing suicide by cop.

ftfy
>>
>>28727023
Well I'd say more like 60% of the country doesn't give a shit.

And the remaining is 30% who are libtards or pro big government in this case and maybe 10-20% percent who sympathize. Of which probably like 1 percent is militia affiliated.

I just want to see a happenings man, chill out. And I suspect that Saturday will be very interesting indeed, if mistakes are made and tempers reach a point.
>>
>>28727106
I'm laughing too hard to chill out senpai
>>
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>>28727001
>hundreds of sympathizers

Perhaps, but I have seen many more angry liberals calling for a Waco 2. The term "treason" was thrown around quite often.

They lost their chance to gain support when they started acting like cunts to the journalists. It was game over for them the second the press started calling them "militants."
>>
Everything I've read about this case and the events surrounding it shows the BLM in a negative light, and I do think that the BLM needs to be punished and some of the lands appropriated given back to private ownership, but - and this is a BIG but for some people, apparently - their guilt or innocence has NOTHING TO DO with this shooting, or the behaviors of the people on this federal land.

BLM can get fucked, but frankly the protesters can get fucked, too. They had the media's attention, they got national coverage on their plight (good on them); after that they should have gone home immediately in a large group; that would have been the smart thing to do. Everything after that was just idiotic bravado and dick-swinging, leading up to this fatality and the arrests of several others who probably didn't really need to be arrested.
>>
Clean shoot. Nothing to see here. Glad this shit wasn't played up like the stupid ass bundy blm shit
>>
>>28726034
more like at 9:27 hes reaching for his side because he was just in a minor crash
>hands on hips doing the chicken dance
dude are you serious? he's obviously in pain from either being shot or something else.
>9mm
That's weird they did an interview with him and im pretty sure that's not even what he had.
>also
>reaching for a gun on his left hip with his right hand
wew lad
>>
>>28727254
The witness gurl who was with him in the car said three consecutive shots. So the /pol/ theory of him getting shot and grabbing his wound then falling over dead a few seconds later doesn't hold water.

http://www.reuters.tv/UzE/2016/01/29/fbi-video-shows-armed-protester-shot-by-police
>>
>>28727137
Angry lolberals are pretty useless m8.

They are angry about everything but also pussies as fuck.

They aren't really a factor when they act like jackasses and send dildos and bake cake.

Remember a couple derks literally shit all over all of the liberals in france by making them eat their words about muhammed and forced them to defend muslims or admit defeat and join the conservatives. And I would say Europe right now is a good example of what happens when you let the left run itself into the ground.
>>
>>28727338
Actually, this would be a very interesting point of discussion. Sending the dildos in the mail very clearly upset the Oregon militants, so could it be considered a form of effective psychological warfare? Could we see it as a means of weakening morale? Such things have been done before, after all (see: weaponized k-pop).
And, if we conclude that dildos are in fact an effective method of psychological warfare, how can we further utilize them? Can we strap them to our rifles as bayonets? Can we launch them out of fixed mortar emplacements? How would an ISIS training camp react if it suddenly came under a literal hail of cocks?
Let's get to work on this, people. I want a preliminary plan drawn up and on my desk by noon.
>>
>>28727432
You know you joke.

But sexual harassment is a legitimate tactic in intelligence networks especiakky in corrupt countries like Russia.

They would send sex toys or evidence to incriminate their politically unfavorable targets as degenerates or as cheaters to their wives and cause a ton of psychological damage and control of the opposition.
>>
>>28727254
If you didn't watch the video, just say so, saves us time.
>>
>>28724802
You know a UAV still needs operators, right? Several, in fact. Because it is a UAV, not a drone.
>>
>>28725016
God damn son, how's that boot leather taste?
>>
>>28725242
Because law enforcement would NEVER concoct a story and plant evidence to support it. Especially federal law enforcement operating under the most secretive, and hostile to the public administration the government has ever seen..
>>
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>>28724548
Yeah no it was probably a cessna 206 or maybe a bell Jet Ranger.
>>
>>28726638
no but it's the most likely outcome and the one any non-moron would come to, so again, cop was retarded or he did it on purpose.
>>
>>28725549
Because /k/ is full of statist faggots who are full on hypocrites
>>
>>28727623
he seriously punched eyeholes into a tarp
>>
>>28725016
found the bloodthirsty fedsucker.

eat a wadcutter, fuckhead
>>
>>28725016
Taste any good leather today?
>>
>>28725549
>we have to support these cause because they were a milita
>>
>>28727668
>no but it's the most likely outcome and the one any non-moron would come to,

People never try to ram barracades. Yep. Never happens.

You are fucking retarded, trip.
>>
>>28727771
and you are dead set on the cop having no nefarious intentions, because cops never do shady shit. Yup, never happens.

you are a fucking retarded anon.
>>
>>28727771
>You are fucking retarded, trip

he really is, it's pathetic
>>
>>28726797
He did at least get out of the truck and away from it before going for the gun.
>>
>>28727466
Consider, for a moment, that when they asked for support, they received useless and spiteful "gifts" instead. They were demoralized by the lack of support and mild bullying. They felt alone.
>>
>>28727720
Clearly shooped, friendo
>>
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>>28726034
>mocked law enforcement by doing a "chicken dance" or something that looked like it
LMFAO
>>
>>28727853
Don't mind the COINTELPRO friend.
>>
>tell people they have dash cam footage of the shooting
>release 480p video taken by a drone 3 miles up
Reaching for a gun, reacting to being shot, or complying with officers when being told to drop his weapons. We will never know.
>>
>>28724987
>>28725049
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/01/drones-need-humans-badly/
>>
>>28727999
Consider that these were grown men who still had freedom of movement and a fairly close-by grocery store and they still begged for handouts.
>>
>>28728103
>Hey look, I can suppress opinions differing from my own by calling them shills/bootlickers/statist/COINTELPRO!
>>
>>28724942
This, probably a King Air.
>>28724943
>>28724921
Some radar can be operated without a license, principally in the 10.5 GHz and 24 GHz bands. The most powerful unlicensed radar devices are mostly marine radar, but other forms of radar are permissible.
https://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf
Radar falls under "field disturbance sensors."
>>
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>>28725325
>>
>>28728903
and there you have it folks
>>
>>28728903
well now, that could be important.
>>
It was probably a Cessna with a fancy camera in it.
Just because it's a spy plane doesn't mean it's terribly exotic
>>
>>28725325
tends to happen instinctively when you get shot there
>>
>>28729225
It's not important. Everyone could see what he was doing. The only people who even doubt the feds story are "we din du nuffin" supporters. He clearly stumbled into the snow with his hands up and only saw one officer approaching him and decided to go out in a blaze of glory. Unbeknownst to him, there was an officer in the trees behind him. He turns towards the truck and tries to draw. You can see the first shot fired by the officer in the trees, it happens at 6:06 in the video, right before he goes down. The redneck deserved it. Guess if you don't want to be gunned down, you should attempt an armed take over of a federal building over land that isn't yours in the first place.
>>
>>28724943
trust me the fbi doesn't give two shits about FCC regs.
>>
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>>28724921
>Is it legal for U.S. citizens to own microwave radar?

Yes
http://www.mylabradar.com
>>
>>28726166
>Why would a right handed man known to carry on his right side one day conveniently carry on his left side? Anyone who carries a weapon knows thats fishy. Nobody establishes a habit then one day switches. This sounds bogus.

>>>>>>>

>>28728903
>>
>>28724548

Holy shit this is dildos.

The video is obviously shot from one of those police helicopters with a camera ball on the nose. You can tell by how it's circling and can even see the vibration of the blades in the slight bounce of the footage.
>>
somebody make a FOIA request for the body cam footage
>>
>>28725457
Underrated post
>>
>>28725626
They almost killed firefighters...
>>
>>28725684
Unless your saying Pepper balls and CS gas is a "MAG Dump" you're an idiot...
>>
>>28729385
That was a Taser bro...
>>
>>28731001
It was an FBI plane not a heli
>>
The interesting question is what happened before they drove off with the SUV.

Anyway the guys didn't have public support, it was a completely pointless act on their part. I live in Oregon and firmly support the government refuge.
>>
>>28731513

link?
>>
>>28725016
>Deserved
Mmm mmm mmm dishing out those federal just desserts, no courts needed, just add retards.
>>
>>28732531
HE A GOOD BOY HE DINDU NUFFIN
>>
>>28732546
it was justifiable but that doesn't mean he deserved it.
>>
>>28732721
looked to be asking for it 2bh
>>
>>28727106
>>28727117
Soon boys.

All dem militia camping outside town and hanging inna motels are pissed.

And the Pacific Patriots and the rest have FINALLY sent out a call for action with 'peaceful' intent....to arrest the LEOs who killed Lavoy and escort the FBI out of the state.

Which certainly is not going to happen thanks to tons of pissed off independents joining in and a trigger happy LEO seeing themselves on the brink of victory.
>>
>>28724548
>Was it actually from a drone instead?

It was a fixed wing aircraft, based on the way it had to circle the scene instead of hovering. And it was fast enough to keep up with the truck moving pretty fast. So I'd guess 'no' on the drone.
>>
>>28734382
An MQ-1 or MQ-9 can easily keep up.
>>
>>28724761
Go away alphabet man. He obviously jumped in front of the car. Common tactic by police to justify the use deadly force on the driver.
>>
>>28736283
How's your JFK investigation going?
>>
>>28727023
Not to be a militiamemer, but weren't the revolutionaries in colonial America a really tiny percentage of the population?
>>
>>28736777
There was an almost even split between revolutionaries, loyalists, and "fuck off and let us farm."
>>
>>28724548
I don't see drones becoming a commonplace law enforcement tool in the forseeable future. Some large agencies employ them in small numbers as a force multiplyer, but unless they can be shown to be cheap, easy to use or automated (inb4 skynet), and ultimately a non-risk to public safety and civil liberties, I don't see them gaining much ground in your rank and file departments.

Would be fucking cool as shit though, seems like every time we need our local S.O.'s helicopter to track a suspect, they're not flying. Would be nice to have our own FLIR equipped eye in the sky so we wouldn't be so dependent on the county's assets. My agency like most don't have the budget to have an aviation unit.
>>
>>28736888
>my agency like most don't have
Apparently we don't have the budget to hire literate officers either. Fuck I can't type today.
>>
>>28736888
Just use one of those quad copters that use gps to loiter.
>>
>>28736914
Can they be FLIR equipped? Link pls?
>>
>>28736994
A flir one is coming out soon, I'll find the link.
>>
>>28737015
There's a few, but they're all like this. The camera is on a gyro stabilized gimbal, like what news helicopters have. Then you get a live feed from the camera on a tablet. You can then just pull up Google maps and tell it where to hang around.
>>
All I know is the Portlanders were out in force celebrating this man's death the day he was shot, and it shook me badly. I expected sarcasm and ridicule. I didn't expect bloodthirsty fucking GLEE.

This country is badly fucked up. There are a lot of enthusiastic Good Germans out there.
>>
>>28737142
Funny how fucked up people can be. Literally celebrating someone's death. I really wish he had just surrendered peacefully in the initial stop and taken his day in court. Going out the way he did took away from what little credibility those folks had left.
>>
>>28737191
I'm frightened to death of prison. I won't go. Perhaps this man felt the same.

I still fail to understand why actual working ranchers would come into somebody else's state and stay when the locals told them no. They fucked up very, very badly. None of which excuses the BLM flooding and destroying the ranches nearest the Malheur reserve so they could buy them cheap. Which is the original casus belli, and one most of America doesn't even know about, and increasingly wouldn't care if they did.
>>
>>28737223
I can relate, but these guys essentially were trespassing at best....trespassing on public property. I think the whole response was blown out of proportion and these guys even if convicted wouldnt serve much if any prison time.

This country is woefully unprepared mentally for the tree of liberty being refreshed, and while our constitution gets shit on more and more every day, usually by the feds, it's just simply not time. What happened in Nevada was a just cause and well executed and ended peacefully. What happened in Oregon just negated anything gained from it. While I think the Bundy's got fucked over in what was clearly a case of albeit modified or non-traditional double jeopardy, these guys going up to Oregon was absolutely the wrong battle to pick and they completely shit the bed on execution.

This country as a whole does not care about civil rights so long as the average person can go on about their day while being left alone from overt government intrusion or inconvenience. Only when that changes will people start to wake up, I just hope it isn't too late if that does happen, and I hope I'm still young and able enough to honor my twice taken oath so that my little boy won't have to lead a shit life. Hopefully it will never come to that and we can get back on track using the ballot box and the jury box, and never the cartridge box....but what happened up in Oregon is certainly not going to help things.
>>
>>28736777
please don't compare these yahoo's to our founding fathers.
>>
>>28737191
I'm happy that the Fed's squashed this protest, I'm not happy that the old guy committed suicide by cop but I am happy that they dealt with it. It is not okay to break the law and threaten to defend yourself if the authorities try to stop you. It is not okay to take over public land and propose to defend it to the death. It's not even close to the right way to affect change.

They broke the law and thumbed their noses at authority. This simply can't be allowed if we are to expect the law to protect and serve our society.
>>
>>28738732
What if the law, or the people in charge, is not allowing for change and are the very reason why people are angry enough to take arms?
>>
>>28738888
checked quads

That is not the case though, we live in a democracy, it is not okay for individuals or small groups of individuals to decide they don't like the way things are going and then choose to take up arms to take what they want. These militants were not welcome, they were not supported by the rest of the country, the local community or even those they were representing.
>>
What a lot of you are missing is the following:

This specific incident endangered officers directly with reckless behavior and aggressive driving
These men consistently boasted about their firearms and willingness to use them on officers

Why would any officer take the risk in this heated moment of not shooting first?
>>
>>28725457

kek'd
>>
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>>28738732
>its not ok to break the. Law! Its the law! If you thumb your noses at authority by breaking what they have decided is "the law" you should be punished! Its the law! The law! Think of the children! Were would we be without the law!
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>>28739027
>childish tantrum

it is not okay to take up arms and seize property that doesn't belong to you, federal property or otherwise.
>>
>>28739027
what does a pepper spraying girl in Denmark have to do with the Ammon Bundy militia situation in Oregon?
>>
>>28725743

Oh jesus.
>>
>>28725743
>>28726721

Right on.

America's wilds are a precious resource for our people, do you want to get cucked by a bunch of companies strip mining it all to shit?
>>
>>28739048
>>28739081
>It is not okay to break the law and threaten to defend yourself if the authorities try to stop you.
>>
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>>28725855
> ten times the people and supplies
> implying these fuckweeds brought any supplies
SNAX PLOZ
>>
>>28739182
>Free to go to the grocery store at any time
>Halp uz sens snax!
>>
>>28726286
People have seen more dramatic bullet deflections before. I remember hearing about one police shooting where an officer shot a guy center chest with .40, only for the round to deflect upward after contacting a rib and exit through the suspect's trap.
>>
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>>28725325
They were lighting him up. That's why he had his hands on his torso when he collapsed.
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>>28725682
Your mind's weak. You lack strong critical thinking. Let me dumb it down for ya.

If fed was in the wrong and the clear video will paint them clearly wrong. They would take ideal action to preserve themselves such as degrade quality of video and its audio to point its difficult to make out the truth and they can claim whatsoever was truth.

On another hand your point would only be valid if fed was in the right it would then be their ideal action to present clear as possible video evidence.
>>
>>28725734
Thats the point. its our responsibility to check fed... if its possible for fed to lie based on shitty evidence and materials we have available we then will explore it, but if not we clarify for those who dont understand the evidence and situation then leave it at that and maybe make meme out of it.
>>
>>28725016
>deserved
>>
>>28740588
Well, the Kennedy "magic bullet" theory only really works if you ignore that JFK's seat was actually set higher and out a bit wider than the other guy's, for instance.
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