Japan unveils stealth plane, may combine with next-gen jet

>>28719726
>may combine with next-gen jet
combining robot future coming true?

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>>28719726
>plane, may combine with next-gen jet

Ugh the Iran offering looked better than this shit.

Gattai da?

>>28719726
neat

>>28719743
>>28719750
>>28719763
>Defense officials said the aircraft is designed to test the stealth technology that would possibly be combined with the next-generation fighter jet, replacing the fleet of F-2 fighters as early as 2028.

The article title is shit.

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>>28719726
Ideon confirmed.

>>28719753
It's not hard to look better when you're just a bunch of fake bullshit.

Am I crazy or is that thing really tiny

>>28720014
truly fitting the nippon spirit.

>>28720109
>>28720014
its a test bed plane. Its meant to see how well nips can build a plane.

They'll use the advances they got from building this to build other aircraft that will actually be used in combat

>>28719726
I can't wait until they make a kawaii plane girl based on it

>>28719726
>New high tech airplane
>Old ass PAR64 light cans in the foreground

photography fail

>>28720014
they are really small and short. really.

Impressive

Put this in the South China Sea and there isn't anything China can do.

>>28720167
>not showing off your rare vintage retro surplus lighting at every opportunity

>>28719778
>>28720014
>>28720109
>>28720139

Yeah, the article utterly fails to coherently state that it is only a technology demonstation aircraft.

>>28720439
retard

Bigger question is why are we allowed the Japs to restart their industrial military complex? Did you guys already forget about Pearl Harbor?

>>28722435
The Korean War

And "restart their military industrial complex" is so gross an oversimplification as to be a pack of lies.

>>28722435
Did you forget that the nips are in love with USA Senpai?

>>28719726
Why does Japan need a stealth jet? Pearl Harbor 2.0?

>>28722555
Because he's a fucking retard who is willfully ignorant of events post-1945, which is par for the course of the typical American education - because the policy questions about the history require you to actually think.

>>28722606
Something to replace the F-4Js and eventually F-15Js

>>28722435
Because they're our greatest friend in the Pacific? Japan wanting to do more can literally only help us.

>But muh Pearl Harbor.
Welcome to 2016, only shitholes still rely on violence to acquire resources. Nations like Japan and the USA are effectively post-scarcity. Even our homeless live full lifespans. There's no need for the Japs to conquer all of Asia because Nippon has no iron ore, this isn't the fucking thirties.

>>28722653
I forgot they still use F4s

>>28722555
thats wut they want you to think senpai

>>28722435
they've never lost their military industrial complex senpai

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>>28722606
Something to defend themselves from China's increasing aggressiveness along with the F-35s they are buying.

Also the old F-4EJs and F-15Js are outmatched by J-10Bs and will likely be no match for J-20s, and Japan only has so many F-2s.

>>28723376
You sound like you're implying that F-2 is a match for J-20. If J-20 is truly a 5th generation plane, that seems unlikely.

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>>28719726
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm1leeHssZ4

>>28723454
not him, but it can be construed that the F2's are meant to deal with the J-10B's.

If another aircraft can get a lock on a J-20 it can relay that info to a F-2 who can use its own missiles to take it out.

>>28723612
True, I hadn't considered that. How are F-2s, by any chance? Do they match up to current block F-16s?

>>28723642
Its an F-16C with bigger wings and an AESA radar.

Japan needs to make Valkyries and Itano Circus real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHEr6rwWPbs

>>28723642
It's effectively an F-16 with new wings, more composites, an AESA radar, and integration with various anti-ship missiles.

Also they're expensive as shit ($127 million each)

>>28722712
It's still a competent missile truck. IIRC Germans still use them too, theirs can sling AMRAAMS.

>>28723717
Germans are still using Tornadoes.

>>28722673
>Because they're our greatest friend in the Pacific?

t. Howard Nakanishi

>>28723700
So it's more capable than Block 50, less capable, or is it basically equivalent?

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>>28723376
Why do they use paddles for thrust vectoring instead of moving the whole nozzle like the Russians?

>>28719726
Doesn't look fully stealthy yet, but it's just a demonstration aircraft.

It looks very maneuverable, especially if they fix the air intakes. Nice big wings, control surfaces, and if the intakes were made lush with the belly, a big flat belly. It's also very small and light, but that is probably due to the lack of avionics and weapon bays.

In short, it'll probably be a great F-16/F-2 replacement. Or, since Japan is likely to be getting the F-35, a maneuverable fighter.

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>>28723739
"Use"

>>28723753
t. Ping Ling Chong Zhang

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>>28723778
because that is where you start.

Japan is doing this to develop talent and knowledge base.

they could just buy the tech from America. Though they don't want to do that.

>>28723753
Right, because weeaboos are why the USA still owns 20% of Okinawa, and why they use our guided missile destroyers. Gotcha

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>>28723765
If you consider an AESA radar and the ability to carry 4 Harpoon equivalents an improvement, it is an improvement.

>>28723739
>>28723843
Wrong image. Apparently I don't have their readiness rates anymore. Strange.

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>>28719726
they're going to put the special paint on it, right?
also wtf happened to the original design?

>>28723812
>he bought the lie that the F-35 cannot maneuver

The purpose of this aircraft was to develop Japans manufacturing capability, its the same reason they went ahead with the F-2 after America bailed.

>>28723880
AESA as opposed to PESA, I'd consider significant. Four Harpoon compared to two, also significant, but less so.

>>28723891
She's a test mule. She doesn't need RAM because she isn't going to look anything like the actual Japan VLO Fighter.

>>28723867
That makes Japs America's cucks.
Gotcha

>>28723903
I didn't buy that lie. I'm just of the opinion that this looks more maneuverable. This isn't hard to believe. It's significantly lighter and smaller, and probably powered by a pretty good pair of engines. Remember the F-16A was an unmatched turnfighter. That's what this looks like to me.

>>28723936
You must be new. Everyone knows they're cucks to America. That's why they even have an SDF in the first place.

>>28723765

In between block 50 and block 60.

It's got an AESA, which block 50 doesn't have, but it's not as good as the one on Block 60.

It's got the same engine as block 50 but a good bit heavier. Block 60 is even heavier but has an uprated engine.

However, the thing is LRIP-3 F-35 expensive while block 60 is a lot cheaper.

>>28723887
got ya covered bro.

They only have 50% readiness for their Tornado's

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34983396

not a good insight, but most other news sources state the same thing.

>>28723936
Or, get this, allies. They bat for us in their neighborhood and let us have Okinawa, we provide them muscle in the event they're attacked. Share technology, fuck over chinks and Best gooks, it's a win-win.

>>28723995
and their Tornadoes can't work at night, because the cockpit is too bright to use NVGs in.

>>28723966

>>28723867
>muh 20% Okinawa

you're preaching to the choir moron

>>28723994
Ok, that works. And yeah, definitely not cost effective, but they wouldn't be making an F-22 equivalent if it weren't for it.

>>28723700
Damn that's nearing f-22 prices...

Gotta love economies of scale

>>28723995
Someone made a handy little chart.

>>28724028
The reconnaissance versions of the Tornadoes, at least.

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>>28724054
>>28723995
>>28723739
HAHA, FOUND IT

>>28723994
>>28723994
It's a shame they loss a few of them in the 2011 Earthquake and ensuing tsunami.

They were extremely pricey but did keep Japan's military aircraft industry busy for a short while.

The ATD-X is like an F-15 mixed with an F-22, but much smaller (size of an F/A-18A/C).

Japan has developed not just the aircraft, but the engines and systems indigenously

Really hoping they get flight testing with the ATD-X done fast and actual production started much sooner than the predicted post-2020 date (2028?). Also, they need to commit to building a decent fleet size, something on the order of 200+ to replace the F-4J, F-15J, and F-2, with the F-35 a stop gap until the F-3 is ready.

>>28724091
Female Defense Minister didn't spend the money on repair parts. In fact no one knows where the money went.

>>28723994
Is the USA even adopting block 60?

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>>28724091
>only 38 of 114 Eurofighters
WHAT THE FUCK GERMANY

>>28724135
Source? Just curious to read more.

>>28724135
it went to daycares and more "family friendly" bases from what I've read

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10567291/Germanys-new-defence-minister-eyes-family-friendly-army.html

>>28724141
Like>>2872413 said, practically no money was spent to maintain these systems. There's a furor in Germany about this right now.

>>28724140
No, that's for export customers

>>28724155
I mean I thought they had about half readiness rate, this paints a darker picture about the German air force

>>28724198
It isn't just the air force. The navy and army vehicles are equally busted and unready.

Poland could conquer Germany, at the moment.

>>28724215
It's worth saying that Poland has more Leopard 2s than Germany. The Germans sold them for practically nothing.

>>28724152
>"My goal is to make the German armed forces into one of the most attractive employers in Germany,"
The fuck? It's a military for the defense of the country, not a fucking 9-to-5

>>28724245
I mean its good for attracting better candidates, but it shouldn't be the main objective of the defense minister.

She should be worried first about the readiness/effectiveness of the armed forces and only after that should she look to get better recruits

Great now we will see countless anime version of this abomination doing missile spam and taking out 10 F-22s in one volley. One thing I hate the most about Japs, they think they are so fucking superior.

What's the point of Germany even having a military? There are no external threats they would need to protect themselves from, or that other NATO allies or the US wouldn't fight.

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>>28724288
:^)

>>28724328
fucking kek

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>>28724288
lol, did GATE give you ptsd?

>>28724328
what in the shitting dicktits is happening here

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>>28724355
Its an homage to Battle Fairy Yukikaze.

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>>28724328
Source. Now.

>>28724392
Shirobako.

>>28724324
Russia, though that bear seems to be falling off it's ball again.

>>28724355
THRUST VECTORING, SON.

Realistically speaking, this HAS actually happened in the past, just with triplanes. They can spin around fast enough to keep their velocity vector in one direction rather than following the nose and still generate enough lift to do this, despite the engine slowing them down. It can only happen for a moment, but a moment's enough to spoil an attack.

>>28724453
Harriers can fly backwards, but they sort of cheat.

>>28720014
You could fit 50 nips in that thing. It is huge by their standards.

>>28722626
>implying he is American
>implying every American doesn't know that we occupy Japan and they are a pseudo-colony.

You failed, try again yuropoor.

>>28724041
>Gotta love economies of scale

It wasn't just because they made so few of them, but also because they had to remake their aircraft industry from scratch.

>>28724710
Someone post that pic of all the burgers on twitter saying their earthquake was divine retribution for Pearl Harbor.

>>28724155
A furor in Germany, or a fuhrer in Germany?

>>28724732
Yes

>>28724453
>Realistically speaking, this HAS actually happened in the past, just with triplanes. They can spin around fast enough to keep their velocity vector in one direction rather than following the nose and still generate enough lift to do this
No. Absolutely no.

>>28719726
What I'm wondering is what the government is going to axe to keep this going.

They had a nightmare of a time with the F-2 -- especially when upgrade time came around, and that's before we even talk about the new ASMs. The entire program could be axed next election when the Diet revolts and cuts funding when they realize they'll be paying for this thing for the next 50 years.

>>28724140
Nope, spending money on F-35s instead.

>>28723765
It's a bit of a toss up. The Block 60 with CFTs has a longer range, but the F-2 has a larger internal range. Furthermore, the lack of CFTs means the F-2 can actually maneuver decently where as the CFT makes the block 60 a flying turd.

>>28723858
>have the best thrust vector system in the 90's
>neither the F-22, Eurofighter nor F-35 use it

that's frustrated.

>>28724796
http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article781.html

with love, lockmart

>>28724788
It's a matter of historical record that this occurred at least a handful of times, for long enough to force the enemy to abort their attack.

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>>28724732

>>28723904
>but less so

Looking at the fact that Japan is an island nation. Destroying ships is like a main goal of the Air Force.

>>28724135
>Female Defense Minister didn't spend the money on repair parts.

She is like the last of the problems. In fact she is even the first one who wants to improve the core competence of the Bundeswehr - with more tanks, aircraft etc.

>>28724849
You don't get more gear if your current gear isn't usable because you lack the money to maintain it. First priority is raising the availability rate. Above EVERYTHING else. The first job of a military is readiness. As it stands, even with new gear Germany would not be in a state of readiness.

>>28724873
That's a problem since the end of the cold war.

It didn't happen 2 years ago that there is suddenly no money spended on combat readiness.

>>28723903
>he bought the lie that the F-35 can maneuver

Lockmartshill please.

>>28724731
>yuropoor expecting someone to do all the work for him

How typical.

>>28724377
This show was great, it was kinda gay at times but fuck the planes are beautiful. If the Japs can make planes like these then I cringe so much watching their shows.

>>28724908
110 degree controlled angle of attack, fuccboi.

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>>28724914
>it was kinda gay at times
It wouldn't be a proper jet pilot story if it weren't desu

>>28724821
>"The flying qualities of the F-16 with CFTs are essentially unchanged when compared to a non-CFT equipped airplane,"

They technically aren't lying, but they are stretching the truth a lot. What they said is only true if the CFTs are empty. Lying by omission maybe. There are plenty of personal anecdotes from pilots from a wide range of countries who will argue CFTs do noticeably reduce maneuverability.

>"For most combat flight conditions, it's as if the CFTs are not even there.

Again, not technically lying but this is comparing a CFT F-16 to a F-16 with underwing fuel tanks. What they fail to point out is that you can ditch the underwing fuel tanks where as you can't for the CFTs. So it is a lopsided comparison to begin with.

>>28724887
Of course it has been. It's been a problem across the globe. The past several defense ministers are ALL culprate.

>>28724954
Well, Germany went from 2,4% spending to 1,2%.

Even if I'm not a CDU nor von der Leyen fan, I would claim she is one of the few peole who can fix that problem to some degree because she has ambitions to become chancellor at some point.
One of the reasons why Merkel is trying to get rid of her.

>>28724823
Source?

>>28724908
sup Sprey

>>28719726
It's so ugly and looks cheap. I expected more from Japs.

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>twin-tail design

One would think that Japan would rather design something to fix the F-35 biggest flaws.

>>28725046
Let me try and find the documentary. It was a British pilot recounting a case where it was the lone triplane against... 6 or so Brits?

>>28725046
>>28725274
Here we go. The shooting down of Werner Voss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aiuAYqwNKA

Just after 16 minutes in. The quotes are from one of the British pilot's diary.

>>28725383
will watch shortly

>>28723765

If you read up on them they are over-engineered, but really capable planes. It was the first plane to have an AESA radar, first aircraft to have the wings and shit made from a graphite-epoxy composite, which improved the weight, range and some stealth capabilities of the plane. This tech was then also used in the design of the F-35.
Handles really well, can handle lots of ordnance and fits the Japanese defense doctrine.
It's pricy, yes, but that is because 60% of it is produced in Glorious Nippon.

>>28719726
when japan builds its first aircraft carrier, is when the rising sun will finally rise again

>>28725247
Wat? Twin tails are superior for stealth and high alpha. You only go with a single tail if you need to be absolutely as light as possible.

>>28725751

Can you explain why alpha matters so much?

>>28725751
>superior for stealth

Even Lockheed doesn't claim that.

>high alpha

In subsonic regime, which is quite pointless because you turn into a brick at even pretty small AoA maneuvers.

>>28725793
>but......much cobra

>>28725760
A higher angle of attack = more lift (also more drag), which means you turn faster and tighter, so long as you have the engine power to deal with that drag.

It also means you can fly slower without completely stalling which helps in certain circumstances.

>>28725793
>Even Lockheed doesn't claim that.
Yes they did... with the F-117, because it's that old it's a basic feature of stealth aircraft. A single tail has to be vertical for symmetry; a vertical tail provides a massive reflecting surface to targets to the side and it also creates a corner reflector between the vertical stabiliser and either the elevators or wings.

>which is quite pointless
And yet pulling high alpha is the primary tool of the Hornet / Super Hornet in BFM. It takes a lot of skill to use to your advantage, but it can let you kill your enemy early into a dogfight.

>>28725818
Tails don't produce any meaningful lift.

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>>28719726

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It'd be poetic justice if Japan ended up building better stealth fighters than China. China had to steal from America to get anywhere on that. This is clearly a Japanese design, and not a blatant design theft.

>>28725793
>In subsonic regime
Yes, most maneuvering is subsonic.
>because you turn into a brick at even pretty small AoA maneuvers.
AoA is literally the pitch of the aircraft. You're full of shit. High AoA certainly bleeds off a lot of energy, but low AoA does not.

>>28725892
>Yes, most maneuvering is subsonic.

That's not how modern aircraft would engage other aircraft.

Do you think supercruise capable aircraft like the F-22 or Eurofighter wouldn't use their energy adventage in such situations?

They are basically designed around that concept.

>>28725892
>but low AoA does not.

Pretty much all aircraft can reach that AoA sweetpoint.

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>>28725844
I'm not saying they do - they're important for high alpha because a single tail, sitting in the middle of the (rear) fuselage easily gets occluded from airflow and gets the worst of turbulence flowing over it. Twin tails can (and are) placed out at the sides of the fuselage, between the wing and elevators, where they provide yaw stability and (because they now sit within the energetic vortices created over the wings) give more yaw control.

In this pic, the vapor is where there's a low pressure zone. Where those vortices are, there's high pressure air just surrounding them - think like a water vortex - empty in the middle, fluid around the outside.

>>28725912
Maneuvering at supersonic speeds makes you turn in a massive radii - if you're trying to out maneuver each other, you're doing it to get a guns kill. You can't get a guns kill if you're turning several kilometers away.

Tech demonstrator or not, it still look like some cheap 4th gen trainer.

>>28725915
You're making sense to me, but what you said doesn't explain why the twintails on the f-15 are vertical.

>>28723891
Kinda looks like a cross of a mig and a hornet, with a little raptor thrown in too.

>>28725751
No Tail is superior for stealth. Look B2.

No Plane is even more superior. Ballistic Missile Master Race

>>28725927
>gun kill

>>28719726
>more concerned with maneuverability than outright stealth
I like it.

>>28719726
Does it still have anti-ship capabilities?

>>28725952
Because it's structurally easier to develop and because the F-15 is either stable or neutrally stable - even with tilted tails it wouldn't be able to hit high alpha.

There's another disadvantage to straight vertical tails as well; they cause more buffeting, which was a problem for the F-15 and F-14 in development. Canted tails are just pretty much better in every way. And in the end, if vertical tails are so great, why did the F-22, apex maneuvering jet of the US, go with canted tails?

>>28725957
Yep, but the original debate was that a single vertical tail was somehow superior.

>>28725967
If you're not going for a gun kill, use your missiles before you get to the merge.

>>28725927
>guns
>so important that only the F-35A will have one

>>28725987

I approve of this emphasis as well.

>>28725912
Simply speaking, YOU CAN'T MANEUVER AT THOSE SPEEDS. You'd over-g the shit out of your plane trying to do so. No, I'm sorry. Dogfighting occurs subsonic.

Supercruise is more for ingressing and egressing, as well as permitting longer ranged weapon release due to the energy imparted on the missile from being at a higher speed when launched. That is what supercruise is all about. Not maneuvering at mach speeds.

>Pretty much all aircraft can reach that AoA sweetpoint.
That's not what you said in the slightest. What you said was verifiably incorrect. Let me show you.
>because you turn into a brick at even pretty small AoA maneuvers.
This is wrong. Don't try and bullshit around it.

And no such thing as a sweetpoint. If you're flying straight forwards, you're flying at an AoA. If this was space, it would be an AoA of 0 degrees. But gravity exists, so even level flight is at an AoA.

What is said about high AoA ability is that you can point your nose higher than the other guy and SUSTAIN it. You won't stall doing so, up to your AoA limit. That's what's important about it. It gives you freedom to point your nose. Yes, it does burn more energy, but the idea is that you don't do it until you can get a good shot.

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>>28726026
Mainly for air-to-ground (it was meant to be part of the set of systems replacing the A-10), hence why they swapped from a 20mm M61 to a 25mm GAU-22/A.

>>28725997
The F-22 used slanted tails for stealth reasons. The rule of thumb for stealth is that you can't have right angles.

>>28726067 here, just realized that you (>>28726026) said the opposite of what I thought you did - we're talking about high alpha and guns combat because that's what >>28725793 was debating against.

>>28726077
Let me start using a username so there's less confusion - I'm the guy that originally said they were important for stealth; we've moved on from that.

>>28726088
You really need to make a trip if you're gonna be using your name to lend credence to your arguments. Otherwise it's too easy to mimic you.

>>28725869
Well the main hangup with Chinese designs is engines. Japan will always have the options to buy english or american made engines for their fighters even if their domestic industry can't produce anything that compares with the likes of P&W, GE or Rolls Royce.

>>28726151
Fair enough, although if need be I can always just edit the description of one of my videos - eg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31oJIo8EVwY

>>28726208
This is definitely the easier option.

>>28725957
>No Tail is superior for stealth. Look B2.

And that might be bit problematic for maneuveribility and control authority.

>No Plane is even more superior. Ballistic Missile Master Race

Bit expensive solution, not to mention pretty bad at intelligence gathering.

>>28726196
>Japan will always have the options to buy english or american made engines for their fighters even if their domestic industry can't produce anything that compares with the likes of P&W, GE or Rolls Royce.

Japan is very involved in western aviation industries as subcontractors and they have over the years produced plenty of successful engine designs. It's unlikely that they will have any major problems with engines.

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>>28719726
>Dat red wing

>>28726320
>Japan is very involved in western aviation industries as subcontractors and they have over the years produced plenty of successful engine designs. It's unlikely that they will have any major problems with engines.

such as?

I know of no Japanese produced jetfighter or civilian airliner engine.

Also, the X-2 is still a demonstrator and its engines only have 5 tons of thrust. Barely better than a trainer.

Still will be many many years until the Japanese make a full-sized stealth fighter out of this subscaled demonstrator.

>>28725915
more images like that pls

>>28726411
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IHI_Corporation

Japan lacks experience in the military aviation but claiming they have no aerospace experience is quite silly.

>>28726341
hey buddy, still alive?

game gave me some feels man....

>F-3 in 2027

Could be a pretty neat aircraft if Japan gets the TVC right.

>>28723667
>>28723700

I don't understand technical info, could you explain what the AESA would do ?

>>28726566
In a PESA Radar, there is a single main microwave frequency signal generating source. The same source signal is amplified, and then distributed and fed to each of the individual antenna, but the phase of the signal given to each antenna can be electronically varied. Therefore, by appropriately altering the phases of all the antenna elements, the radar can be made to 'point' in a particular direction (by making use of the constructive/destructive interference properties of waves).
The problem with these kinds of radar however, is since all the antenna are operating at a single frequency, it becomes much more easier of the enemy to detect and jam the radar beam. However, they are also much easier to build and operate.
Eg:- Radars used on the Su-30, and F-15A

In an AESA radar on the other hand, each milk carton sized antenna is capable of generating its own microwave signal, as well as altering its phase. Another difference is that, at any given time, each of the antenna may be operating at a different frequency! Also, an AESA antenna element may change its frequency of operation around 1000's of times per second. As a result, the radar beam now does not operate at a single frequency, but rather, is a very wide band signal. As the radar energy is now spread over a huge band, instead of a precise single frequency, the enemy thinks that this signal is simply background noise and ignores it. This is why such radars are called LPI (low probability of Intercept) radars, and are used in stealth fighter jets and ships. However, such radars are more costly, require much more power, and generate lots of heat, which in turn requires sophisticated cooling systems. They also required very complex signal processing to turn all the incoming radar reflections into meaningful data.

>>28723966
>That's why they have an SDF.
They wouldn't need an SDF if the Americans hadn't ran to fight in Vietnam, you cuck.

>>28726617
Arigato gozaimasu senpai

>>28724991
>Well, Germany went from 2,4% spending to 1,2%.
Hey, gotta feed the migrants, so that their sperm is healthier, and gives better babies when they rape german women.

>>28726662

German defense budget went down way before immigration got into current level. Budget is far from being only issue their military has to deal with.

>>28727566
Bundeswehr suffers two problems.

A small budget and the lack of a politcal will to reform the Bundeswehr in a meaningful way, so the international operating units are still sufficent equipped while the traditional national opearting parts of the Bundeswehr got nothing.

>>28724245
yeah, but modern militaries need people with more education/technical skills and that means attracting people away from jobs that have more benefits and are more lucrative

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>>28725927
>>>28725912
>>gun kill

>>28724281
No, the lack of enough personal is indeed one of the main problems of the Bundeswehr.

Though as engineer the Bundeswehr is a pretty good place right now.

>>28726649
>Korea you fuckhead

>>28725760
>>28725818
>A higher angle of attack = more lift
No, not always. This is only true up to the point of stall. Virtually all "high-alpha" capabilities refer to post-stall flight, where this is no longer the case and more AoA doesn't do anything for you except point the nose somewhere other than the direction you're going (which theorists THOUGHT would be useful for dogfighting in the '90s, but exercises along with the development of HOBS missiles quickly proved that post-stall maneuvering in combat is nothing but a way to get yourself killed).
>>28725912
>Do you think supercruise capable aircraft like the F-22 or Eurofighter wouldn't use their energy adventage in such situations?
No, not really. A modern air-to-air engagement typically goes like this:
>Fighter spots bandits and accelerates towards them until firing range
>In most cases, they barely have time to get above the sound barrier (and nowhere near their published top speed) before they get a shoot cue
>Missiles are fired; pilots then slow down to subsonic and crank to reduce closing velocity in case the enemy fired as well
>If the MWS goes off or some other indication of return-fire is received, the pilot will forget about their missiles and go defensive to try and survive the missile(s) headed his way
>Fighters that are not defensive continue to press and may fire additional missiles
>Pilots try to maintain their "corner speed," the (subsonic) speed at which they can perform the sharpest maneuvers
>If bandits are still alive at the merge, a subsonic dogfight may ensue
So yes, subsonic maneuvering is certainly still relevant.
>Pretty much all aircraft can reach that AoA sweetpoint.
Yes, fucking this. Lift maxes out at a certain AoA and any capability beyond that is only really useful for airshow performances and emergency situations such as accidental stalls.
>>28726045
>And no such thing as a sweetpoint.
Yes, there is. For maximum lift, it's just below your stall AoA. Reaching stall AoA is easy.

>>28727823
>No, not really. A modern air-to-air engagement typically goes like this:

You mean with modern an engagement with the teenfighters.

Well, of course that not supercruise capable aircraft engage in subsonic because using their afterburner will waste too much fuel and they can only fly straight.

>>28726617
>Eg:- Radars used on the Su-30, and F-15A
NEITHER of those uses PESA. Both are mechanically-steered. Get your shit straight.

Why does everyone on /k/ seem to assume anything that isn't AESA is PESA? Mechanical steering is still the most prevalent form of radar, and BOTH electronically-scanned antenna architectures are far better.
AESA > PESA >>>> Mechanical steering

>>28727886
Supercruise may not use quite as much fuel as afterburning but it's still about double the fuel consumption as subsonic cruise, which is still plenty bad enough to be fuel-prohibitive. Supercruise is a paper tiger.

>>28727899
The lastest Su-30MKI are using PESA - N011M.

>>28727914
The combat radius of the F-22 would be reduced from 600 to 450 miles with a 100 miles supercruise dash.

That's anything but a paper tiger.

>>28727966
Whatever you say.

In any case it doesn't change the fact that even the F-22 would want to be subsonic by the time it reaches the merge (if the fight even gets that far, of course).

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The U.S. military's F-35 stealth fighter "is not that maneuverable, but the X-2 is stealthy while boasting high maneuverability," said Takahiro Yoshida, project director at the Japanese defense ministry's acquisitions agency.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Tech-Science/Tech/Stealth-fighter-prototype-unveiled

>>28728890
No lies detected

>>28719726
It looks so....bland. I was expecting something different from Japan.

>no canards

RIP F-3

>>28728890

>F-35 is not that maneuverable
>Can reach an AoA of over 70 degrees

>>28729033
>small control surfaces
>maneuverable

pick one

>>28728986
F-3 will come with the ability to transform into a mech and comes with internal hard points that can fit loli seeking tentacles

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>>28729079

>>28723778
As an AEM major, this gif satisfies me.

>>28729033
>70+ AOA for the F-35
I can't wait for proof of this. I'l just sit here, waiting.

>>28729033
That's controllability, not maneuverability.

The Space Shuttle maintained 40 degrees AOA during reentry, but nobody would ever say it could outmaneuver an F-16.

>>28726411
>I know of no Japanese produced jetfighter or civilian airliner engine.
are you retarded or just incapable of google search?

>>28720014
It's a stealth plane. It's supposed to look small.

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>>28729743

>>28729743
110 degrees has already been demonstrated

>>28726196

Wait, are you saying Japan doesn't excel at making aircraft engines? How is that possible?

>>28730088
Aside of low thrust engines for trainers and obsolete turbojets? Even the Indians produce something similiar.

>>28730145
kek

>>28723994
So it's like an oversized F-16V then?

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>>28729743
http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-flies-against-f-16-basic-fighter-maneuvers

>Pilots also tested the ability of the F-35 to recover from a deep-stall in which it was pushed beyond the maximum AoA command limit by activating a manual pitch limiter (MPL) override similar to the alpha limiter in the F-16. “It’s not something an operational pilot would do, but the angle of attack went back and, with the center of gravity way back aft, it would not pitch over, but it would pitch up. So it got stuck at 60 or 70 deg. alpha, and it was as happy as could be. There was no pitching moment to worry about, and as soon as I let go of the MPL, it would come out,” Nelson says.

>
>The aircraft has been put into spins with yaw rates up to 60 deg./sec., equal to a complete turn every 6 sec. “That’s pretty good. But we paddled off the flight-test aid and it recovered instantly,” he says.

>Departure resistance was proven during high angle-of-attack (AOA) testing, which began in late 2012 with the aircraft pushing the nose to its production AOA limit of 50 deg. Subsequent AOA testing has pushed the aircraft beyond both the positive and negative maximum command limits, including intentionally putting the aircraft out of control in several configurations ranging from “clean” wings to tests with open weapons-bay doors. Testing eventually pushed the F-35 to a maximum of 110 deg. AOA.

>Testing eventually pushed the F-35 to a maximum of 110 deg. AOA.

>>28726196

They can make top tier engines by themselves.

Only things holding japanese arms industry was 1% budget thing for SDF and ban on weapons exports.

>http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-29/pentagon-risks-building-500-f-35s-before-completing-combat-tests

F-35 fags BTFO what a garbage jet

>>28733506
>Getting stuck in deep-stall
>"as happy as could be"
Man, test pilots must be some sick, twisted motherfuckers.

>>28734307
todays stall isnt your grandfathers stall

If Japan goes full rising sun maybe they can sell these to Canada.

Please Japan, don't force us to buy outdated 4th gen aircraft.

It's not stealthy if it's fucking bright red and white now is it cunt

>>28735252
looks like you government more than content in buying 4th gen hell they even more than happy get ones who would not even be capable as fucking bugs ..

>>28735252
You do realize Canada is still going to buy F-35s right?

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>>28735408
Did someone say bugs?

>>28735252
What in the fuck does Canada even need F-35s for in the first place?

Under 'Dude Weed' you don't even need a military, because you won't ever bomb angry sandpeople. Which is the only real thing the F-35 is probably ever going to do, $400 Billion for a bomb truck.

>>28736379
You might want to pay attention to whats going on in the world, pretty soon Russia and China are going to start ignoring your arctic claims.

>>28736527
You Americans are so delusional. It's 2016. No one invades people anymore. You are the only rogue nation in the world, but you would never invade us because you know you wouldn't win.

>>28736575
Keep that up and we'll take your magic scepter again. You won't even be able to get the bongs to burn the white house this time, either.

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>>28736575

>>28736575
It's less about invading and more about
>We're mining here.
>What? No Putin, that's our territorial waters.
>Not any more, what are you going to do about it?

Obviously then blowing up oil rigs with F-35s isn't smart, but you can send in your police or whatever to arrest everyone on the oil rig and use those F-35s (and other things) to prevent any SF or Russian boats from arresting your police.

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>>28736575
>No one invades people anymore

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>>28736575
ok

>>28723778
that looks sexual and kinda grosses me out too

>Tentative performance specifications so far revealed give the ATD-X a maximum take-off weight of 13,000 kg; a service ceiling of 65,000 ft; a maximum Mach level of 2.25 (1.82 in supercruise); and an estimated combat radius of 411 n miles (761 km; 473 miles), or a range of 1,566 n miles (2,900 km; 1,802 miles) (with two drop tanks)/1,728 n miles (3,200 km; 1,988 miles) (ferry).

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>>28736379

If Canada was ambitious, it would make its own fighter plane. It used to do that.

>>28736690
>this retarded fucking picture

>>28737637
Avro Canada doesn't exist anymore.

>>28737833
>>28737637
>Inb4 Bombardier straps missiles to a dash-8 and calls it good

>>28731812

V2500 is very low thrust.

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>>28723858
F-18 HARV is pure sex

>>28736645
Future Arctic war will be less about oil or even clear water, and more about the shipping lanes. There's new Suez between Europe and China waiting to be exploited at full capacity by the end of this decade. And when we come to this,
neither Canada or US have the means to assert themselves beyond polar circle anyway. You can't take and hold assets by air force alone, you need ice-breakers, ports, bases in the vicinity and ice-hardened fleet.

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>>28727715
>>Korea

kek

>>28738220
Of course you need ships to hold parts of the sea, but jets that can murder ships are a good deterrent.

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>>28738167

Agreed.

>>28719726
Looks autistic desu

>>28722435
China. No other reason.

>>28722435

US established Communist China.

>>28724443
>Russia is going to attack NATO, go through Poland, and be able to attack Germany

No.

>>28724443

Russians have 2500 active tanks. Spread all over the largest country on the planet.

Poland alone is 1000 tanks defending one short border. And polish army is getting more and more shit every year. With hundreds of Leos 2 on the way.

People thinking that Russians could steamroll into Western Europe like if it was 1945 are retarded.

>>28739835
2500? That number seems oddly small.

>>28739889
Most Russian tanks are in storage, just like the US.

>>28739889
They're all rusting away in junkyards.

>>28739835
Something like 500 T-90 tanks, 500 T-80 tanks and 2000 T-72 tanks.

There is another 10k T-72s and T-80s "in reserve", how many of them are actually usable without a factory overhaul is unknown.

>>28737696
Does it trigger you that it has sources listed too?

>>28723778
Paddles probably weigh a tenth of a full 3D thrust vectoring nozzle

>>28738245
Do you have more Dirty F-16 pix ?

>>28740350
I like to think of T-72s being like our old 1942 McCormick W4 tractor.

Rusty as fuck, looks like it's about to fall apart at any moment.

But has outlasted every other tractor on the farm.


Wouldn't surprise me if those "in storage" tanks just fired up after a half hour of basic maintenance checks & fueling.

>>28720167
>Spend all your money on new plane
>have to show it off in a poorly lit storage locker

>>28737944
... so a Canadian B-1R??

Fund it