Wanted to buy a glock, but now I don't because they don't have a safety.
Any suggestions for a 9mm handgun with a conventional safety?
>they don't have a safety
>including the shooter, a Flock has four safeties.
Got me to reply. Here's your (you)
Yeah and slide mounted safeties are the best. Don't let anyone complain to you about how they sometimes get accidentally turned on from racking the slide, how they're placed in awkward position or how they operate in the opposite direction of the frame mounted safeties.
The Army only provides the troops with the very best equipment made. It's the government, budgeting is not an issue.
The Beretta M9 is perfection. They're the most reliable gun made with parts only occasionally breaking.
The grips also feel very natural and good in the hand. They're very organic feeling, like an organ.
Don't let anyone talk you into a Glock just because they're used by military and police around the world, the U.S. Army doesn't issue them. Don't let anyone talk you into an HK with their LEM trigger either. Don't let anyone talk you into the Kahr or the M&P which don't commonly have safeties either.
Guns like the Walther p22 and Beretta M9 are far more reliable and safer to rely on.
You can get a manual safety kit for the glock just make sure to have the gunsmith add it on for you OP
This if you want to carry.
Regular USP with safety if you just want a home defense or range toy.
Also, M&Ps can have manual safeties, OP.
Your fucking link is broken you big giant flaming ball of cunt
Get an M9 or a Beretta PX 4 if the M9 is too big for you. You could buy the M9A3 which has interchangeable backstraps but it is not cheap. Yes,slide safeties can be awkward to reach but saying that you can accidentaly engage them while racking the slide just means that you are clumsy. Also having a decocker and a DA/SA gun is good in my opinion.
If you can't get over having slide safeties get an HK USP
I don't get this obsession with safeties on striker fired guns as a civilian. simply keep it in condition 3 and adhere to the 4 rules.
LEOs cannot be trusted with firearms, so they should always be in condition Fife
SEALs have been using one since the 80s.
P226 and just recently switched to a Glock 19. Same goes for most other SOCOM units. The police all over the country carry Glocks.
You need training and if you feel that you are less safe without a manual safety, you are simply incompetent. Your brain and your trigger finger are you safeties.
You need TRAINING.
Seriously, get some pistol class. And I'm not talking a concealed carry or NRA class. Find a full time instructor (all over YouTube now) and fix your bullshit issues.
i go to shoot regularly and in march they start a beginners class.
don't think anything will ever change how i feel about glocks tho. they feel wrong and the trigger pull is awful. i'm also probably the least accurate with them which doesn't make me like glocks any more.
considering it wont fire when dunked in simple water, yeah it's a piece of shit.
the trigger components are just too fine for that kind of pistol. it needs to go back to the drawing board.
Forgot Sig makes a SAO P226. Not a fan of SAO myself but there you go.
But surely if you're concealed carrying and you have the gun stuffed in your pants surely there's a chance of the trigger catching on something or accidentally going off if you're moving around without a legitimate safety?
"Shooting regularly" won't teach you PROPER funamentals, techniques, mindset or give you the proper knowledge. You need somebody with actual know-how to teach you because your problems are only the result of your lack of competence.
i have an instructor and he knows his shit all right.
>because your problems are only the result of your lack of competence
no you faggot they are the result of personal preference and the fact that almost all guns are better than glocks.
glocks are nigger tier the same as the glock knives and glock everything. utilitarian and cheap plastic shit sold for lot of bucks.
oh my god you screaming retard, did you do ANY research prior to hacking out this post?
FNH's FNS-9 and Smith + Wesson's M&P pistols have factory options with manual safeties. Start there
>I have no guns but man do I have opinions about them
>i have a glock i CC
>i was very worried at first
>i did fag idea of no round in chamber
>now i am fine
>i realize now that the glock is not "cocked"
>its just half cocked
>you have to pull the trigger and add energy to the spring before it will fire
>its like a revolver that is not cocked
>its a very easy to pull double action
>the trigger safety makes it so only a finger/stick can pull the trigger not if you drop it or throw it
>if your worried about a stick pulling the trigger then keep it in your holster until you are ready to kill.
When is something getting stuck in the trigger guard?
It's a pistol. It's either in your holster or in your hands. Get a good holster for it, not leather or a SERPA, and make sure the holster is clear if you've been in some trees or dense brush before reholstering.
>not leather or SERPA
>that pic again
That particularly triggers me. I use leather holsters. They would never get like that, not even a slight possibility given the materials and construction. And SERPA, you just don't like it because it's popular?
>then you shouldn't own any weapons until you get over your irrational fears.
What if you dont want your gun to be shot by anything other than a person? You do know that things other than fingers can get into trigger guards, right?
>including the shooter, a Flock has four safeties
>muh internal always on drop safe safeties count as safeties
the glock has one safety and its basically the same thing as having a sheath with a blade mounted to the outside of it.
People tend to buy cheap junk when it comes to holsters, and thin leather will eventually end up like pic related.
SERPAs are a safety hazard. Yes you can train to not fuck up, but there have been cases of SF guys ND'ing into their legs and dying because of SERPAs. They also tend to jam up when sandy, which means the user has to push the button really hard and pull to unlock it, which causes the finger to slip into the trigger guard.
>What if you dont want your gun to be shot by anything other than a person? You do know that things other than fingers can get into trigger guards, right?
Explain what situation something like that could happen? See >>28717818
>the glock has one safety
It has multiple internal safeties that keep it from firing by any means other than pulling the trigger.
>It has multiple internal safeties that keep it from firing by any means other than pulling the trigger.
As far as most people are concerned, even if you have 10 safeties that are disengaged with one control, it still only counts as one safety.
>Explain what situation something like that could happen?
Trees, bushes, loose threads, storing it loaded and then earthquake/you accidental knock it down/or something and then it falls and catches on a bolt handle or something and you get shot (read most people don't put pistols underneath their rifles)
>>I simply cannot stop walking around with my finger on the trigger
>my finger on the trigger
>You do know that things other than fingers can get into trigger guards, right?
I've owned my Glock for well over 4 years and have never had an ND.
I cannot imagine having to quickly draw my firearm in an ever evolving self defense situation and have to release a safety. I want to pull my gun and shoot without having to think about anything other than the trigger.
>Trees, bushes, loose threads, storing it loaded and then earthquake/you accidental knock it down/or something and then it falls and catches on a bolt handle or something and you get shot (read most people don't put pistols underneath their rifles)
Let me ask you, have you ever actually handled and fired a Glock? Be honest.
You've got a fuckton of travel in the trigger, followed by a heavy, stiff break, all the while whatever is pulling the trigger has to keep constant pressure on a small, thin plastic nub in the lower-center area of the trigger.
In none of the situations you've mentioned can I envision some foreign object in the trigger guard successfully maintaining the right angle, position, and constant force/pressure throughout the whole of the Glock's long, heavy, stiff trigger pull. Not only that, but as others have noted, you should always have it in either a holster or in your hands anyway. It would take either the absolute perfect storm of fuck, or firm, conscious negligence to accidentally pull the trigger on a Glock.
>Also you do mean continuous, not constant, right?
Maybe that would have been a slightly better word to use, but:
>occurring continuously over a period of time.
>"the pain is constant"
Let's not be pedantic here, man.
>Let's not be pedantic here, man.
not my intent.
>In none of the situations you've mentioned can I envision some foreign object in the trigger guard successfully maintaining the right angle, position, and constant force/pressure throughout the whole of the Glock's long, heavy, stiff trigger pull.
But firing the gun and disengaging the safety are the same force in the same plane/direction, right?
Think about how much it would cost to give every soldier the BEST equpiment availible, I'm afraid that you are incorrect. The US army goes with this mindset, "We should give everyone cost effective equipment that is adequate for the job that the soldiers need to fill". If you are right then why we have not adopted the SCAR 16 as standard issue? I'm sure it's nothing to do with the fact they are ~3k. Also the beretta safety sucks balls dude, take it from someone who owns a 1911 and a 92fs.
Can someone explain this thinking to me, honestly, all sweet /k/ memes aside.
The Glock DOES have a safety. Its that little lever on the trigger. If you dont press that little lever the gun can not fire.
So the only way to fire your Glock is to pull the trigger. Are there people out there pulling on triggers all willy nilly and only being saved because there was a manual safety in the way? Are people drawing their weapons with their fingers on the triggers? Just grab any part of the weapon that ISNT the trigger, its not hard.
I dunno, anon... I can't even see into my trigger guards, let alone shove something in there. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it.
Yes and yes. I don't believe you can have a Glock which is chambered but not cocked.
I'm sure you could stick a round in the chamber with the gun disassembled, but once it gets onto the frame I think it "cocks" itself.
There's no hammer to let down. You can't have it chambered without it being partially cocked.
And to answer your question, yes, I've carried it chambered for 4 years without issue.
Name one. Name a thing that can get in there besides a finger. Unless you are carrying it in your pocket and your pocket is literally full of sticks and shit.
If it is in some sort of holster, what's getting in the trigger guard?
Been thinking about trigger safeties a lot lately. I'm thinking they are just about useless. Anything that gets into the trigger guard is going to ride the curve of the trigger till it depresses the safety bar anyways. Did some tests where I'd stuff chunks of my shirt into the trigger guard when holstering. It would pull the trigger every time.
Thinking I might just disable the safety for a better pull, on a glock it be easier then my M&P
>But firing the gun and disengaging the safety are the same force in the same plane/direction, right?
Yes, but that force needs to be relatively heavy, applied to a specific spot on the lower half of the trigger, and applied over a period of time in the same way. Your finger pads are large and soft, and encompass the whole of the trigger. Something hard and potentially thin like a branch (which, frankly, I'm having a hard time envisioning how one would get in there in the first place given proper carry) would have to resist a tendency to slide up and down or side to side (especially on the ridged triggers found in the compacts, subcompacts, etc.), as well as keep a stern, ***continuous*** force over a long pull followed by a heavy, stiff break. I just find all these conditions very unlikely to occur all at once. You need to be carrying your gun in a stupid way, get something caught in the trigger guard somehow, keep it in there in such a way that it depresses a certain part of the trigger, overcome a long pull/stiff break, all without noticing.
As far as dropping the gun and having the trigger somehow snag on something, I find it very unlikely that it would fire in such a scenario either. It's going to hit it at an awkward angle no matter what and be fire more likely to deflect to the side or spin around. You'd need to saw off the front of your trigger guard and drop it perfectly on a rigid steel beam to discharge the gun that way.
Sorry for the long wall of text, but it's kind of difficult to articulate this feeling I'm trying to describe. I think you'd perhaps understand if you had handled a Glock trigger before. I mean, if the Glock trigger was a very light trigger with a crisp, light break and very little pre-travel, I'd understand where you're coming from. It's not, however.
>and would need to keep a stern, ***continuous*** force over a long pull followed by a heavy, stiff break in order to fire.
Fixed, the structure of that sentence was iffy.
>Sorry for the long wall of text
"Rambling" is probably more appropriate than wall of text. Like I said, it's a bit difficult to articulate my point.
> Anonymous 01/28/16(Thu)11:32:27 No.28716984▶
>a good safety doesn't lock the trigger but prevents the firing pint to be struck.
Not a whole lot, and it doesn't have very much travel.
I guess the best way I can think to articulate my point is that you should think of carrying a Glock as akin to carrying a DA revolver and the like. The long, heavy trigger pull contributes in large part to the safety. On the Glock, the nub/other safeties are just bonuses.
>I devised a 'test' where a trigger would be pulled by jamming the trigger guard full of shit and depressing it, and the trigger was depressed every time!
>obviously this means triggers are unsafe
If you can't see how retarded this makes you appear, there's no hope for you and you should sell your gun before someone dies
Fear of an ND due to a trigger safety is pretty irrational. It's statistically unlikely that an ND is going to occur. It's also statistically unlikely you're ever going to need your firearm. Yet we all carry. Let the people who want their manual safeties have them.
You devised a situation where you could actuate a trigger press and then use that as evidence to support a preconceived conclusion. That's not how it works, to say nothing of how careless you're being by trying to reholster with your shirt in the way. This is why people say "your brain and your finger are your safety."
Go take a handgun 101 course, christ
you guys are crazy but whatever
i'm there with you i wouldn't carry a gun with a chambered round.
i have a gun that fires even when the safety is engaged 100% of the time i figured this out when i emptied the mag at the range and then looked at the safety.
Any foreign object that happens to press against the top of the trigger (which, given at least the Glock's trigger/safety design, is entirely possible, and even probably likely that a foreign object will ride up to the top or otherwise to a point where it's not depressing the safety) or the sides (namely at an angle) will keep the trigger from firing.
Yes, if you jam massive foreign objects into the trigger guard and push straight down, it's going to set the gun off. That's not a realistic test by any means, though.
this is my safety right here
>You devised a situation where you could actuate a trigger press and then use that as evidence to support a preconceived conclusion
I made up a test, came to a conclusion based on my test. Then asked for peer review. Unless you can devise another test for it why are you even replying to me?
>That's not how it works, to say nothing of how careless you're being by trying to reholster with your shirt in the way. This is why people say "your brain and your finger are your safety."
I am 100% using my brain and finger as a safety. How am I not? By the time I'm drawn and finger on the trigger i'm pointing at something i'm willing to shoot
>Any foreign object that happens to press against the top of the trigger (which, given at least the Glock's trigger/safety design, is entirely possible, and even probably likely that a foreign object will ride up to the top or otherwise to a point where it's not depressing the safety) or the sides (namely at an angle) will keep the trigger from firing.
Name a single way that trigger can be pressed without whatever is rising it riding down the curve of the trigger. I can't think of a single way that can happen. I really think the trigger safety is a protectionist thing
Like I said, at least with a *GLOCK* trigger (which is a curve that rides up to a right angle rather than a straight up "C" type crescent) and at most angles, foreign objects tend to ride up in between the top of the trigger and the frame, or deflect off to the side at an angle and not depress the safety/have enough force or the ability to apply it in such a way to depress the trigger. I just tested this with my own Glock and various objects at different angles.
This may be different with other triggers, however.
That may be the case for Glock triggers, i'd need one in my hands and mess with. For the M&P trigger that lock can be defeated from just about any angle. The only way to have the lock work is if I use my finger and press high on the trigger but even then my finger still wants to slide down the curve.
It will still shoot if ones not already in the chamber, pulling the trigger puts one in the chamber! So whatever situation you get in with your glock regardless if ones in the chamber or not and somehow the trigger gets pulled, there'll be a bang
Oh, and this is all assuming you've got something just pushed straight through the trigger guard. Naturally, something that's just barely in and pressing against the edge of the trigger isn't going to do shit.
I understand your apprehension to them, but personally, I think they're better than nothing so long as there are at least SOME instances they can present an ND. They're certainly not 100% fool-proof, but then again, no safety is. I think we can both agree that by far, the most important thing in preventing an ND is smart, proper gun-handling.
Yeah, I can understand fully where you're coming from with regards to M&P triggers. It's got a much more pronounced, crescent shape to it that certainly looks like it directs foreign objects directly to the middle. The curve of the Glock's trigger is much broader, and again, in my experience, directs foreign objects to a right angle between the top of the trigger and the frame.
Yeah, that, or maybe they are actually working and helping prevent NDs? The argument could go both ways.
Besides, it's not like there are official figures on M&P NDs, and I really can't argue with anecdotal evidence. Even if there WERE somehow official figures on M&P NDs, they would need to differentiate between NDs due to getting shit actually getting caught in the trigger, and NDs due to people just generally being retards, as well as such data for other pistols.
>NDs take a certain amount of incompetency with a firearm to happen
>If you were going to have one, you will still have one with a safety on your gun
>if you are the type of person to worry about NDs you are not the kind of person that has one
Learn the basic rules of handling a firearm and you will never have a ND and never need a manual safety. It will get you killed when your adrenaline is pumping and you're in a panic and forget that it's on or accidentally switch it on.
Source: decades of training laymen on firearms handling & safety
Glocks are safe as any other handgun.
This doesn't mean I HATE guns with external safeties. But if you're going to be carrying this weapon, you'll have to train to remember the safety. Now, that's an extra step to remember that could cost you time, but again, up to you.
Personally, just get comfortable with your handgun and the basics of safety. Avoid ever losing attention while you have it around, so you don't do something stupid like ND.
Not having a safety can also get you killed when your horse is spooked and you have your pistol out.
Your decades of experience don't seem to have run you across the fact that there are many different use cases.
My CC is a glock because yes, if in my regular life if I need to draw my gun I dont want a safety on it because the situation will probably be me shooting and then dropping my weapon until the police show up.
But with a duty weapon you might have to negotiate an obstacle and still need your weapon out. Manual safeties are good to have for those situations.
Actually I'm not even going to try to edit that into a coherent response you're just a faggot.
source for all claims:Marine CMT and self respecting lover of cock in addition to vag making me not a faggot. like you.
Did your parents ever tell you how they felt when they found out their baby was retarded?
>in a flight or fight situation where my adrenaline is pumping, i'm panicked, my fine motor skills have deteriorated as a result of unavoidable human stress responses, and i need to draw my weapon as fast as humanly possible and shoot, i'm going to have the fortitude to disable the safety 100% of the time
Yeah, okay, and I bet you think you're going to Mozambique the fucker too, right?
The only retard here is you.
(that is, unless you're referring to shit like internal safeties or other non-manual safeties, in which case you're also a retard because that's clearly not what he means)
Your gun busted yo. Like a pornstars vag. Although as any manufacturer or reliable source will, a safety is mechanical and can break and should never be the only thing relied on.
No way anon. You put the Velcro typed days in one and aim it at your eye, and you've got a scratched cornea situation right there. No fucking safety on nerf guns. California needs to crack down.
the safety is in the trigger; it is on safe at all times, but when you pull the trigger you engage the safety and when the trigger resets youre off safety.
>trusting the safety
I own both a 1911 and a 92fs. Personally I prefer the safety of the 92, it's easier to disengage when drawing than the 1911
Man its a good thing all those cavalry soldiers fighting off a horse with Colt revolvers had all those external safeties or they would have just shot each other all the time.
Except they didn't. Seriously, are you this delusional? What scenario would have you on horseback, your GLOCK drawn and ready to fire, and your horse (i need to reiterate that you are on a HORSE) spooks, and that causes you to flail so wildly that you pull the trigger.
What do you imagine yourself doing at times like these? Being literally Big Boss from Metal Gear Solid V?
Also, so you have to negotiate an obstacle with your weapon out. OK, step one, take finger out of trigger guard. Step two, negotiate obstacle. Step three, keep finger out of trigger guard you idiot.
and yet "glock leg" is an actual thing. strange use of the word "safety"
Ok Mr. L337opurador, how many hundreds of thousands of times have you practiced drawing and clicking the safety off? Do you think everyone does it enough to perform that under the most stressful situation of their lives? One less thing I have to train myself to overcome + faster into the fight = more likely I'll survive the fight with my Glock.
Thats why you don't rely on safeties you dumb fuck. I honestly don't understand what is so difficult to understand about there not being a spooky ghost floating around making your gun ND while sitting in your holster. If you don't carry with one in the chamber, then theres really not any use in carrying at all. If you're seriously that scared of your own gun, just get some pepper spray, because your mental capacity and sense of logic is not far off from a teenage girl.
I love these threads so much.
All the no-guns posting, in clear daylight, proof that they have little-to-no experience with, let alone ownership of, firearms.
My Ruger p91-dc has no safety, but a mere decocker.
How is that bullet going to fire when the hammer is in DA position?
How is that heavy-ass DA trigger going to move that hammer all the way back without a finger doing some work?
My girlfriend can't pull the DA trigger without using both of her index fingers.
Please, tell me what is going to set that gun off, aside from a finger.
A random stick.
Did you even read the thread?
Ps. Don't buy star wars cheez-its, there is a Darth Vader on the box but no actual crackers.
>i'm there with you i wouldn't carry a gun with a chambered round.
That's probably because you haven't been carrying/shooting for very long. Just do it more and you'll eventually realize that it's no less safe.