How plausible is this? Can this scenario stand? It's a new twist on the why battleships should be recalled into service angle.
I cringe a little when Japs pit their WW2 ships against modern ones.
Like that Appergio show where for *reasons* WW2 ships are brought back to life with super duper bullshitium powered laser cannons and don't forget their all little girls inside.
They lost and need to fucking get over it. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your military history but coming up with absurd headcanon reasons for why WW2 ships would be in modern media is just embarrassing.
A salvo of tomahawks against a battle ship is a good attack. Unless the target is chinese it should be able to break through the defense. But if the target is chinese then. Heh..heh
You realize the five inch gun on an Arleigh-Burke has a comparable effective range to the Yamato's Type 94 naval cannons with something like 60x the rate of fire? The Arleigh-Burke also has a higher speed, higher cruising speed, larger maximum range, and a missile range ten times that of the Yamato's gun. There is no reason why a modern ship would get into range of a WWII battleship and even if, for whatever reason, the modern ship wanted to get into a gun fight, the WWII battleship would be hard pressed to sink it before getting its radar and communications blasted off by the newer ship.
But Japanese Aegis destroyers cant even launch Tomahawks. Their eight puny ASMs will hardly even scratch a BB.
Better try a Type 052D filled with 16 YJ-18A terminal supersonic AShMs.
Modernized Iowa BB cant see shit at even 21 nmi.
Now the ship's radars finally see them. But too late; the supersonic terminal stage penetrators have already seperated and are screaming towards the BB.
Will the thick belt-armor hold?
Welp, looks like it didnt.
Only three hits damages the Iowa severely. Flooding and fire will kill it, if left unattended.
But it wont even live long to see the crew struggling with vain attempts at damage control: The fourth hit againt the waterline sinks the Iowa.
And this, kids, is why BBs are shit.
huh, I wonder if it takes into account the armor scheme that it had where armor was concentrated around the turrets (and magazine and loading system) and the engine rooms. Technically even a SM2 should be able to pen if it doesn't hit the deck armor or those spaces.
Simulators are not fucking real life. There are too many elements not simulated. Simulators are great to test theories before proposal, and that's about it. You use a simulator to train entry-level positions on tactics and systems.
muh scenario is the most retarded thread we have on /k/.
OK, let's try OP's scenario then:
Atago-class DDG (Japanese copycat Aegis Destroyer) vs modernized Iowa BB.
The Atago detects the BB at extended range and launches all of its available AShM at it: Eight SSM-1B (Type 90) seaskimming anti ship missile. These missiles are like the Harpoon and are subsonic.
Let's see how fast the BB gets BTFO by modern Japanese technology.
Skipping forward, the SSM-1Bs silently approach the Iowa BB undetected.
Ok, the Iowa BB suffers a hit, no CIWS worked against superior japanese technology, and the SSM-1B impacted on the Iowa!
Ok, dont panic... Yamato Damashii will prevail!
Wow! That simulator was right! We should build massive, armored, fuckhuge wastes of money instead of focusing on APS/ECM ships!
Thanks dude, you're more correct than the entire world for the last 40 years.
After the fourth hit against the Iowa BB...
Still no significant damage!
No flooding, no fire, not even subsystems damaged. The Iowa BB is still functional and good to go. Belt armor held up pretty well.
That's already half of the Atago's entire anti-ship firepower to no effect!
As filename says:
All eight SSM-1B subsonic sea-skimmers impacted on the Iowa BB and did absolutely NO DAMAGE at all. See the list of all subsystems. Nothing's even scratched.
Japanese SSM-1B folded a million times <<<<<< American Freedom Steel Belt Armor
But this shows:
China > America >>> Shit >>>>> Japan
>WWII Jap Ships
>Not Glorious Kraut boats
This. Though, An Arleigh Burke as it is right now would have some problems dealing with something like a Yamato or Iowa. But that's because most modern anti-ship missiles (the 5in gun won't mission-kill a BB, you cna forget about that) aren't exactly designed to go up against armored targets.
Thing is, you can design and refit AShMs with an AP warhead for a hell of a lot less effort than it'd take to build armored warships again. That, or just be fuckin' Russia and break out the Shipwrecks.
>gif is actually a missile half the size of Shipwreck with an inert training warhead
>implying yamato could ever hit anything to begin with
Japs couldn't into radar. Taffy 3 made the entire center force retreat at Samar and yamato outweighed all the American ships combined.
You need a certain amount of AP cap still or it'll splatter and crater the armor isntead of going through.
Pic relevant, see that ~3-inches thick solid steel nosecone that's part of the warhead casing? Yeah. Getting hit by a Shipwreck is not something any ship is going to just shake off.
That's great. Except they did have quite enough radar for Yamato to nail Kitkun Bay at Samar from 20k yards through a smokescreen. Oh, and the flat-out best optical FCS of any BB ever built.
Samar is actually kind of bad exampel to bring up considering most stories Taffy 3 losses stories' end in "and then Yamato/Kongo fucked her up". Yamatos gunnery at Samar in particular was some of the best battleship gunnery displayed by any BB during the war.
Hitting the bridge won't stop the ship. Conning tower can continue to serve the same functions and steering the and the turrets can act autonomously if need be.
Though yes, top-attack profiles into the deck are a thing most AShMs can be set to do.
>Kitkun bay wasnt hit at samar, survived the battle and the war
>Jap battleships were unable to fire accurately while maneuvering
>nearly all Jap hits occured within the range of American 5" guns
bb fags gonna fag
>that shitty weeb video
the Arleigh-Burke would stay at range until the big guns stopped firing then move in and break its back with a couple torpedoes if its not already sinking
>wasn't hit on Samar
Woops, you're actually right. Gambier Bay was the one I was thinking of. Kitkun Bay was the one she straddled on the first salvo at ~25k yards before having to turn away to evade air attack.
And then there's of course multiple hits vs Johnston and Hoel and the longest-ranged hit scored ever by any BB during the war on White Plains.
>TFW we will never get to reenact the sinking of the Tirpitz with a mass drop of MOABs
But a Shipwreck isn't that fast.
It's low altitude velocity is something like Mach 1.8, or 619 meters/second.
Even with a 750KG warhead, that's not a lot of AP power.
A WW2 era 14 inch gun firing APCBC 680KG@650 mps only has something like 20 inches of armor penetration. It's somewhat lighter than a Shipwreck warhead but it's made of solid hardened steel while a Shipwreck only had 3 inches of it. The cap of an Iowa class's AP round is thicker than the shell of a Shipwreck, and that cap was designed to crumple and save the shell body from shattering.
This leads me to believe an SS-N-19 is still going to crumple flat if it hits the belt of an Iowa, same with the YJ-18.
It truly shows Chinese superiority in naval weaponry. It is unknown as to how chinese researchers were able to make such godly weapons. Must be a moment of divine enlightenment.
Big AShM aren't doing shit to the main armor belt either, they do not compare to 14-16 inch shells.
Now if either missile was set to strike above the waterline, that's another matter.
>hey guys remember that war where the Japanese thought battleships were the future, blew up US' battleships to kick off the war, and lost to the US' superior carriers? Yea let's ignore that and go with their doctrine
With a warhead that size sitting inside a 7-ton missile that is itself partially armored against 20mm and all but acts like a gigantic shell cap (the warhead sits in the REAR half of the missile, right behind the main mass of the ramjet engine!), it is quite a hell of a lot of AP power. And that's before you realise it can be set to do a pop-up and plunge down through the deck. And hey, you know what had only a mere 4 inches of steel in it's nose section? Motherfucking Tallboy.
As for "only" 619 meters per second, you do realise that that's only about 10m/s slower than a 16in Mark 8 AP shell fired from a brand-new gun barrel from just about 10k yards?
In terms of kinetic energy, a SS-N-19 isn't even comparable to any WWII naval gun. It most closely comparable to getting hit by pic relevant.
No, SHpwreck doesn't compare to 14-16 inch shells. It compares to a theoretical 32-inch shell. The ship with enough belt armor to have a chance in hell to stop that hasn't been designed yet and there's little chance it ever will.
>And then there's of course multiple hits vs Johnston and Hoel and the longest-ranged hit scored ever by any BB during the war on White Plains.
Johnston and Hoel were hit at practically point blank ranges.
Also, as far as I can tell, White Plains never took a hit during the battle.
White Plains took an under-keel detonation from an 18in shell right during the opening minutes of the battle, at a range of approx. 34.5k yards. This did in fact warp her keel enough to make full repairs impossible and was the direct cause of her not being assigned to actual combat postings for the rest of her career - she spent the rest of the war as a glorified aircraft ferry. (This was in fact more damaging than a direct hit would have been given that 18in AP would have likely just overpenetrated.)
Then Yamato engaged Kitkun Bay, scored straddles on first salvo and was forced to turn away due to air attack.
When she turned back, she then engaged Johnston at approximately 20k yards, scoring three 18in and three 6in from her secondary battery. Then she engaged Hoel and Heerman for several minutes, scoring multiple hits and damaging Hoel badly, before turning away because range became short enough to make torpedo attacks a real danger - which means this was quite definitely not done at point blank ranges, either.
Turning back again after getting out of torpedo range, Yamato found the CVEs completely obscured by smoke, switched to radar-directed blindfire and blew a 4 by 4 foot hole through Gambier Bay at a range just short of 22k yards within about two minutes. After that, she got visual contact on the CVE, Kongo joined in and the two of them scored four more direct hits and near misses with significant shrapnel damage between them. This crippled Gambier Bay's engines, reduced her to a top speed of 11 knots and hence doomed her.
Yamato then passed the already crippled Hoel and finished her off with another six hits from her secondary battery, the only time she actually engaged at a range below 10k yards during the entire battle. She then came under heavy air attack and had to maneuer hard to evade several torpedo drops, losing contact with the carriers again in the process.
And that's when Kurita decided to stop the party.
A Shipwreck only weighs 7 metric tons when it is sitting in its launch box with full fuel and booster rocket attached.
And there is a huge difference between a Mk8, which is mostly hard metal by weight, and the nosecone of a Shipwreck.
You are aware that most of the mass of a shipwreck is in fact not in fuel? And most of the "hard metal" in a Mk8 does ABSOLUTELY JACK FUCKING SHIT for penetration purposes. It's got shell walls that thick to withstand firing stresses, which is not an issue for a missile.
Yes, yes there is a huge difference beween a Shipwreck and a Mk8: That being that the Shipwreck is a much heavier, faster at msot ranges projectile to such a degree that the overall penetration it can achieve makes a mockery out of the Mk8. Battleship shells? Fuck that noise, this thing hits with more impact force than a motherfucking Tallboy.
And what are you blathering about the nosecone? That 3-in cone around the forward end of the warhead sits behind the entire goddamn ramjet engine and most of the mass of the missile - not that it owuld even need that beause that steel egg full of explosives hitting at close to Mach 2 is going to fly right through the belt of any battleship that ever existed.
A guided missile destroyer can just spam a hundred missiles at a target that heavily armored.
The primary advantage battleships have is nobody really has anything that can take it out easily. All anti ship missiles have relatively small warheads, and they don't even hit as hard as the big bore shells those ships were designed to tank.
Only a handful of countries have missiles that could fuck up a BB and they only have a handful of them.
I'm a battleship fan because an Iowa can dump around 2.5 million pounds of ordinance on a target every hour. That's like 50 B1 bombers each hour. Nothing else we have can hit as hard as the battleships.
>2,500,000 pounds of ordinance every hour, man.
Battleships were never given a chance to adapt to modern warfare either. They were designed to handle other battleships arcing fire and direct fire, as well as torpedoes. They weren't designed to deflect armor piercing bombs dropped by planes.
The only thing that could be a threat to a proper modern battleship would be a bunker buster or other kind of kinetic penetrator.
If you made a modern battleship with scramjet shells, the thing could practically never leave port and still provide fire support. It could possibly even outrange carrier launched planes.
Battleships are what they are.
we need land carriers.
Steel is cheap as shit, yes, we should be building them.
Why build a packed full fragile burke, 10,000 tons
When you could build an extremely heavily armored ship, 60,000 tons, for similar cost & capability?
That shit is more of a fantasy that LRLAP's
I think the "aircraft" mafia in the US is too entrenched to allow battleships.
But consider what could be done with sabot shells from modern 16 inch cannons
100 mile range?
Developing advanced armor piercing anti-ship weaponry isn't that easy either.
Steel is much tougher today than in WW2 too.
>In the initial stages of this battle, Yamato engaged enemy surface targets for the only time in her career, hitting several American ships. After Yamato confirmed primary battery hits on the escort carrier USS Gambier Bay, a spread of torpedoes heading for Yamato was spotted; the battleship was forced to steer away from the fighting to avoid them and was unable to rejoin the battle.
>their guns lacked a blind fire capability and were thwarted by smoke laid by screening destroyers and rain squalls. Their manually intensive fire control system computed solutions for targets on a constant course. But the destroyers would constantly alter course, to run a zig zag. A 40 ft (12 m)-wide destroyer at 30 kn (35 mph; 56 km/h) can travel up to 0.41 nmi (0.47 mi; 0.76 km) away in the 49 seconds it takes for a 18.1 inch APC shell to cover 15 nmi (17 mi; 28 km).
>the Japanese were forced to scuttle three heavy cruisers, and a fourth limped back to base seriously damaged, having lost its bow. All of Kurita's battleships except Yamato suffered considerable damage, and apart from Yamato, all of the heavy ships stayed inactive in their bases, and the Japanese navy as a whole had been rendered ineffective for the remainder of the war
Nice fanfic though.
Current Shipwreck warhead >>28718423 is HE not even semi-AP by guns standard. It can't deal with thick armor. You can put AP like projectile inside then it will have 16'' like performance (at the cost of behind armor effects). But current version will not.
Except it very much is AP.
FFS, it's meant to fly halfway through an 80k+ tons supercarrier before detonation. It's got a fucking nosecone almost as thick as that on a Tallboy bomb. You know, the kind that fucking overpenetrated clean through Tirpitz and was designed to go throguh 30+ feet of concrete before detonating.
What are you gonna try claiming next, that Fritz-X was not evne semi-AP, either? Because that's just a smaller version of Shipwreck in terms of warhead construction.
>regurgitating outdated wikipedia articles
Nice denial of proven facts, hough.
Also, that wahead is very, very, very much AP. Woop-dee-doo, it's got thinner walls than a shell. So fucking what, that's damn near fucking irrelevant for actual AP performance. Shell walls are cosntructed that thick because they have to be to withstand firing pressure, not because it helps with penetration.
>Shell walls are cosntructed that thick because they have to be to withstand firing pressure, not because it helps with penetration.
>The warhead could penetrate about 130 mm of armour before detonating. There was a micro delay fuse so the weapon detonated within the target. The explosive payload was 320 kg.
>Because that's just a smaller version of Shipwreck in terms of warhead construction.
Eeeeh, nope. Fritz-X had much thicker forward section.
WWII armor piercing bomb AN-Mk1. total weight: 726kg, load: 95 kg Explosive D (13% of weight)
AN-M66 General purpose bomb 907 kg/481 kg (53% of weight).
>INB4 walls are constructed that thick because they have to be to withstand firing pressure retard
>implying Japanese surface fleet didn't get btfo by carrier aircraft, retreated from leyte, and ceased to be a relevant force long before the war ended.
Outdated since when? 1944?
Delusions don't count.