Newfag here. Why is there so much hate for AR500 here? Is it a bad company/product? Pic not related.
It's only shilled because it's significantly cheaper than actual ceramics. Everyone on /k/ are poorfags.
Do you really think anyone here is willing to pay $400-$500 for a piece of metal that will potentially save your life? Did you really try to get into buying gear?
Fuck yeah you did but you're gonna compromise like a faggot and get condor so it doesn't matter.
Because its really not good enough.
Even if it wasn't penetrated by m193, the spall issues are bad enough. Because of spalling steel is not multihit. It's worse protection. It's heavier. There's no multicurve options. Ceramics have come down so much in price. $150 for armorwear, $180 for bulletproofme. No reason to be wearing steel anymore
They're just heavy and metal plates spall like crazy. Get the III+ if you really think someone is going to shoot you with a real gun, otherwise just drop some real money on some real ceramics. Don't buy their carriers. Condor sucks.
III+ steel is penetrated by some high velocity caliber, .22-250 swift I think?
Ceramics of bust.
I've also have said before, but you don't have to have plates in order to have good kit. Maybe for some locations it'd slow you down. Like doing border recon tier stuff on foot, I might skip armor if I was in that position.
They have coatings and liners that wear off after being shot. I don't know how many off the top of my head, after which the spall resumes. So that's why I consider multihit misleading or false advertising
>It is better in the longrun to have good plates to save your life
This. You're already going out of your way to prepare for the event of getting shot, so why the fuck are you half assing it?
Some people don't actually want good quality gear and instead want to just play soldier then throw their shit back into the closet I guess.
It's a shitty, unreasonably heavy compromise that depending on which maker and whether or not the plates are lined may still very well kill/maim you even if the plate stops a round due to backface spalling.
The ONLY reason people buy them is because they're unwilling/unable to buy ceramic plates, which are lighter and (potentially, depending on brand) better at stopping bullets.
Well at least one maker that advertised their plates as NIJ-lvl IV certified (not even just "rated" but they actually claimed the NIJ certified them) continuously put out plates that would suffer first-round-penetration from a .223rem from a 20" barrel with 55gr civilian FMJ (not even 5.56 M193, just generic 55gr at .223 pressures).
Which wouldn't even certify it at lvl III, much less lvl IV.
Not op but This is the kinda thing I want to see.
Most people just shit on AR500 for being cheap and heavy without any proof. BUt if it cant even stop a 5.56 out of marksman grade rifle thats important information
What did the plates look like after that many hits? fragmented? One of the things that I always thought was a plus (As a civilian with 0 combat experience) was the supposed multihit capability of steel as well as it not being able to develop fractures like ceramic might
Besides the ceramic debate
/k/ is full of fucking mallninjas who buy the highest speed gear they can and just circle jerk and show off now
What happened when /k/ was full of regular guys who bought milsurp and were smug about the fact that it was not only cheap but also effective? What happened to grabbing your SKS and going innawoods?
I miss it man. Its just show and tell now
And if you didn't buy into all this stupid highspeed gear shit you're poorfag this poorfag that.
I catch myself every once in a while thinking about upgrading my AR but then I have to snap out of it.
Upgrading is fine, just do it how you want rather than what the hipster assholes say.
The plan I have for my AK would make the RIFLE IS FINE crowd possibly froth at the mouth. My personal rule is everything has a use.
>BUt if it cant even stop a 5.56 out of marksman grade rifle thats important information
The issue you have then is with the nij specifications which are the standard in the industry to which the plates conform.
AR general would have me believe that free float is the standard and it may very well be but I can't justify installing some expensive fucking piece of aluminum for a rifle that I don't plan on shooting past 300 meters.
Don't even get me started on gear. These assholes pay more on their gear than I did on my entire rifle. I just want some cool cheap milsupr or maybe some ALICE but spending too much time on /k/ gets to me thinking its not good enough.
I just want that /k/ back when it was all about milsurp and innawoods. Maybe I just need to stop lurking the really pretentious threads like gearqueer and AR general.
Well, then those faggots can fuck off right? Your gun, your money, your choice.
Personally I just use my gear I airshit in. Rothco and Condor stuff but it's still just fine years later. Actually going to wear it hunting later this year if all goes well.
I think part of the problem with milsurp is that the market's drying up. Have not seen a nugget at my local Cabelas for ages, same with pretty much everywhere else aside from my favorite LGS (who may no longer have them as well).
>I think part of the problem with milsurp is that the market's drying up
Well yeah that's why /k/ doesnt circle jerk nuggets and SKS's anymore. They are getting more and more expensive for what they are.
Do you think we'll see another cheap milsurp gun hit the market and stay cheap long enough for /k/ to circle jerk it? VZ's were like that for a short period of time. I wonder whats up next.
a few reasons
1. AR500 steel is barely strong enough to make grade, anything a little faster of bigger will kill you
2. it's really heavy
3. spalling is a huge deal, it's when the plate deflects and fragments an incoming bullet, sending shards of metal into your unarmored limbs, neck and torso
new coatings have reportedly reduces this issue to some degree though, but the jury is still out
you get an inferior product and arguably worse value
the only thing they have going for them is a low buy in point, IE. if you can't afford ceramic plates
That is not even close to what spalling is. Spalling is the shattering that occurs on the opposite face of the plate from the transfer of kinetic energy. The metal facing/touching your body literally flakes apart at hundreds of miles an hour. Same principle applies to tanks, which is why modern tanks have protective layers between the crew and the actual armor.
>What happened when /k/ was full of regular guys who bought milsurp and were smug about the fact that it was not only cheap but also effective?
>but also effective
a fleck flak jacket doesn't do jack shit btw
Mostly because older plates failed to stop 5.56x45mm M193 at close range and people think that all ceramic plates are lighter even though cheap ceramic plates tend to weigh just as much.
>if you are going to buy steel go with Mil-A-46100E
>purchase a product labeled with some marketing buzzword without any reason for it being better
>not purchasing AR500 Armor's NIJ III+ plates, where you can get either 6.5 lb lightweight plates that are lighter than poorfag ceramics without problems with stopping M193 or other common ammunition from a longer barrel or plates that weigh the same as poorfag ceramics and able to stop 7.62x51mm AP ammunition
>AR500 steel is barely strong enough to make grade, anything a little faster of bigger will kill you
With the old shit, yes. With the new NIJ III+ shit, no.
It penetrates about as far into ballistics gelatin as an airsoft BB, when was the last time you heard about someone dieing from being shot with an airsoft gun?
Its a standard of steal defined by the DoD to stop a .30 caliber AP M2 projectile at 30 degrees obliquity. For .25 inches it is required to stop the said projectile going 2232 ft/sec
and here is the source http://www.titussteel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/46100E_spec.pdf
So it will stop .30-06 M2 AP at a 30 degree angle from 250 yards away and dead on at 400 yards? What exactly makes that superior to NIJ III+ AR500 plates that can stop 7.62x51mm M61 AP ammunition from a few feet away?
Well, I found a place that's selling those plates online. They seem to be going on how it's better due to being military and talking about how the plates are rated to stop .30-06 M2 AP without saying that they're only rated to stop it at longer distances and hitting at an angle instead of straight on at short distances like body armor is normally tested. In addition to "buzzword", the words "dangerous" and "scam" come to mind.
But shrapnel, knives, rubble, broken glass and impact protection around your whole torso is a better way to survive getting into cover than 2 heavy plates. Cover will always be better than armor in a bad scene that cover wont be soft and comfy.
Common sense preparedness and playing operator are two different animals.
>alternative standard based on unrealistic conditions is better because is significantly easy to meet
>standard based on realistic conditions is bad as is hard to make product meet standard