It's interesting seeing natural selection begin to take hold in a social context.
The weakest anti-government militia members are selected against, by getting their asses killed by the Feds.
I'll save you the slap on the wrist that I already received for violating this rule. /k/ does not allow political stories regardless of them being 100% gun related, go to /pol/
>cops/feds shoot someone that was not shooting at them.
That is not a shootout.
Media trying to spin it in the cops favor.
I don't agree with the way the militia tards were trying to do things, but this incident was complete bullshit on the side of the gubmint.
The weakest of the herd are the first to fall behind the pack and be devoured by predators.
If the federal government knows who you are when you attempt to resist their authority, you are most definitely the weakest member of the pack, and they are most definitely going to eat you alive.
>if you threaten the federal government and cause it to take action this means you are weak
please delete your comment so you may save face
violence just seams to be get more violence
Why don't progressives see this.
Holy shit, those comments. Progressives are all about peace and tolerance, until someone threatens the regime and their worldview, and then it's full on extermination of their countrymen.
>It's way past time for these weinies to be dealt with. Now go in with an A-10 and finish off the rest.
Just wallow in the fantasy that if things really went bad, they will be the ones screaming at people to do something about the armed menance, to which they ultimately get dragged out of their walled off houses and shot.
>Yay 'Murica! 'Murica da best!
>Fuck those fucking anti-Murcan Muslims
>Fuck those fucking anti-Murcan Refugees
>Fuck those fucking anti-Murcan Liberals
>Nuke em till they glow
>Actual rebels take up actual arms against America
>Yay 'Murica! 'Murica da best!
>Fuck those fucking anti-Murcan Muslims
>Fuck those fucking anti-Murcan Refugees
>Fuck those fucking anti-Murcan Liberals
>Nuke em till they glow
These people do not like liberty. They are called neocons.
>Actual rebels take up actual arms against America
These people like liberty, and they peacefully took up arms against a federal government (which it appears you are conflating with "America") that, in their view, greatly overstepped its constitutional authority in order to deprive American people of their freedom.
Big difference, if you bother to think about it rather than immediately agreeing with and upboating the top comment on your usual website.
What fucking good is the guy who got shot doing anyone right now?
When nothing happens and the world keeps on turning he's still going to be dead and the government is still going to exist.
Sorry to burst your bubble there.
The BLM protests in Ferguson resulted in both injuries and significant property damage, despite the movement not taking up arms. The occupation of Malheur resulted in no property damage or (until this recent incident, wherein details are still vague) injury, despite the movement taking up arms.
I was just using your turn of phrase. I would not consider an armed protest to be "taking up arms", because that phrase typically implies acts of violence. In the context you used it, there is most definitely room for specifying whether the taking up of arms was peaceful or violent; in this case it was the former.
You're conflating "violence" with "peaceful." They had intent to commit violence (openly stated qualified intent, eg, try to get me and I'll shoot) and thus were not peaceful, even though no violence had occured (yet).
it's not violent neither since no violence has been showed, you just commited an unlawfull act called "stealing"
IF you did make your way out using your gun, then this is a show of violence
Nope, you're shopping.
If you steal it's still not an act of violence.
It's like you don't even know what violence is.
>I'd say yes.
When you do the exact same action, but with no gun, is it an act of violence? What difference does the gun make when it is not used?
>eg. try to get me and I'll shoot
By this very definition, all law enforcement action is an act of violence, even though no actual violence yet occurs. The "or I'll shoot" is an inherent part of all police activity, so in an ordinary traffic stop, would you say that the officer acts violently toward the individual by merely telling him to stop?
So your justification for this is simply being armed? what if it's a minority with his glawk fohty tucked in his waistband and nobody knows? Won't turn "violent" until he's confronted, and goes to shoot someone.
There's a difference between being able to cause harm, and doing so. By that same logic, the government being armed, and ripping people off on taxes is committing violent crime. Roughly.
Of course law enforcement is violent. It's also not peaceful. It's also a necessary evil needed to enforce the laws.
The Oregon rebels are different. They are 1. acting illegally, and 2. had legal recourse that they chose not to use, and 3. did so in a threatening and non-peaceful manner. For example, they could have occupied the refuge while unarmed and be protected under the right to peaceful protest, but they were stupid and picked a fight.
Not for starting a civil war over Cliven Bundy being the blackest nigger he can and playing gibs-me-dat with federal land.
If the people who are there right now are any indication the true believers are recipients of government benefits or POGs who make believe they are combat veterans.
My question was not whether law enforcement is violent at some point. My question was whether the specific instruction "please pull your vehicle over" constitutes an act of violence. You started this pointless semantic argument, so finish it.
>protected under the right to peaceful protest
This right does not permit occupation of federal property. Are you so naive as not to know what happens to unarmed protests? Pic related might jog your memory.
Armed protest is the only way to ensure that you are not immediately maced, beaten, and arrested, and your "cause" immediately forgotten. If you cannot protest effectively because it constitutes "picking a fight", then it cannot be said that you have any meaningful right to protest in the first place.
From the last thread:
Ammon Bundy: Son of deadbeat rancher Cliven "Let me tell you about the Negro" Bundy. Neither a rancher nor an Oregonian. Lengthy arrest record.
Ryan Bundy:The guy with the facial paralysis. Brother of Ammon. Neither a rancher nor an Oregonian. Lengthy arrest record.
Brian "Booda" Cavalier: Claimed to be a former U.S. Marine Scout/Sniper, with service in Iraq and Afghanistan. No military service whatsoever. Another ex-con with a lengthy record. He's the doofus in the "Major League Sniper" hat. Allegedly left the site after his made-up military service offended the other guys with made-up military service. Recent photographs suggest he may have returned to the site.
Blaine Cooper: Claimed to be a U.S. Marine veteran. Signed up for the Marines under the Delayed Entry Program, never reported to USMC boot camp. Usually strutting around in Army Multi-Cam. His wife is also allegedly at the site. Has a rap sheet a mile long. That's not his original name. He legally changed it. If it sounds familiar, it's Jesse Ventura's character's name from Predator.
It's been for some time, though the plebbit-tier posting and moderation has increased of late. I'm not one for conspiracies, but this shit seems to be happening across many boards, so it's unlikely to be a coincidence.
LaVoy Finicum: Huh, an actual rancher. His "income" (his words) is running a foster kid orphanage out of his house and collecting over $100,000 annually from a government-financed charity. This capitalist libertarian hero is most likely using his foster kids as government-funded ranch hands, and still can't turn a profit. Last seen hiding under a blue tarp. [UPDATE: the tarp wasn't bulletproof]
David Fry:Neo-Nazi and ISIS supporter, he likes both over their shared hatred of Jews. On-site communications and social media officer.
Captain Moroni:Won't give his real name. Named after a figure in Mormon scripture. Based on his ridiculous choice in camouflage patterns and the fact he's wearing a hot climate boonie hat in January (he eventually put a knit cap on, then put the boonie hat back on OVER it), I doubt he's actually been in the military.
Joe "Captain O" O'Shaugnessy:Claims to be a captain in some Arizona militia. Allegedly fled the site after stealing their donation jar to go get drunk at a local motel.
Ryan Payne: Claimed to be a former Army Ranger. Actually served in U.S. Army with two deployments to Iraq. But was never a Ranger. Never attended (much less graduated) from Ranger School, and was never assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment, even in a support role. Neither Tabbed nor Scrolled. Amended this to being part of a Secret Squirrel unit for the XVIII Airborne Corps. Always writes it as "18," despite the Army is very specific that Corps-level units use Roman numerals. I'm not sure if he's even graduated Jump School.
I guess you can call them that considering they want land that was stolen from the Native Americans. They wanna steal that land just like the founding fathers. Ol' George would be so proud.
Maureen Peltier:Their Facebook Communications Officer who is not actually at the site. She claims to be a current member of the Washington State National Guard, but has not attended drill since 2014. This anti-government warrior is currently appealing her pending discharge to score a full disability retirement. She is also a "person of interest" in the theft of explosives from her battalion's armory.
Jon Ritzheimer: Actual U.S. Marine Corps veteran. Served in Iraq with a Motor Transportation Company as a truck driver. Claims to have seen extensive combat, yet never earned a Combat Action Ribbon. Says he was kicked out of the USMC Reserve for having "excessive tattoos." At the time of his discharge, the USMC tattoo policy did not prohibit excessive tattoos, only those that were racist or showed solidarity with extremist hate groups. He is financially supported by his government disability check and his wife's job. Star of the I AM ANGRY ABOUT THE DILDO video.
Joseph Arthur Stetson: Arrested for DUI en route to the site. Claimed to be a retired U.S. Army Special Forces colonel, whose records were personally sealed by President Reagan. None of the math adds up on his age, alleged rank and claimed military service with Reagan's term in office. At least one conviction for domestic violence, for vandalizing his ex-wife's trailer.
Neil Wampler: Became involved with the militia movement because he was outraged that he is no longer legally allowed to own firearms, over the minor issue of being convicted of murdering his own father. When asked how they felt about having a convicted murderer in their militia, the Bundy brothers and LaVoy Finicum claimed to have never heard of him, and deny he's at the site. Yes, there are photographs of him wandering around the site.
If you retards didn't turn every single thread on the board into a stormfront\NRA\muh rights circle jerk, WE WOULDN'T NEED IT TO BE A RULE.
But you do, and so we do.
Also, other boards absolutely have had to deal with this kind of shit for a long time. It's lead to the creation of several new boards. It's just that the containment board for you shitheads already exists, and for some reason you just won't go there.
Probably because it's fucking pointless to try and discuss anything on a board that dedicates itself to swapping videos of mentally ill people while shouting "nigger", "kike" and "shill" at one another.
So, we'll go on happily breaking the rules because the user base clearly wants it to be here.
>i make it a point to follow the socially correct story: the post
>not for starting a world war over the death of some cuck duke
>muh taking federal lands meme
you cucks just dont listen
You notice the distinct lack of people shouting words like >>28709293 stated? Notice how there isn't too much shitposting going towards topics of other countries? Notice how much of a faggot you are for clearly only being on /k/ to shitpost instead of taking part in any conversation or just ignoring/hiding it? I think you should follow that clever advice lad.
Other ranchers have told the militia to gtfo. Everyone minus some fringest groups, like here on /k/, have told the militia they don't have shit for backing.
The militia members themselves expose who they are and how they act through their shenanigans.
>fringe group gets spotlight
>all the other fringe groups scatter
is this a new phenomenon for you? sorry not everyone is suicidal, only those who are specifically targeted, like the hammonds are forced into a corner. theyre fucked in the ass, and then the story is made up later. it happens every time, it's not a unique occurrence and its easy to see. lurk harder, maybe next time youll watch the process
oh, cool, check this out
didnt even have to look hard for it
These guys really are shit and simply make militias look bad despite the fact that they used to be a core concept of our cultural heritage. Even the Oath Keepers think the Bundys are shit.
>This forces us to either find new grazing land, reduce the size of our herd or sell out completely. In rural communities, this can have a catastrophic effect on the local economy and environment. Ranching is a billion-dollar industry in Oregon. Overall, agriculture accounts for 15 percent of the state’s economic activity and 12 percent of the state’s employment. The income of a local farm generates double the money for the local economy as a supermarket’s income in the same area, according to the London-based New Economics Foundation.
If there is a demand for meat, they should raise the prices collectively to make the work worth while. It's how economics works.
>just raise the prices :^)
>let me just skirt around the issue and pretend to apply something completely unrelated to the core moral issue
oh man im so done
admins please ban me
>Late 19th-early 20th Century
>Land and resources aggressively used up
>Dustbowl ends later
>National parks, land preserves all over West afterwards
>Some ranchers, farmers lose land
>Most say "FUCK" and leave
>Keep grazing their cattle on land claimed by imminent domain, fined
>One guy refuses to pay year after year
>Piles up a million dollar bill for grazing fees
>Feds steal his cattle
>Could possibly contact ACLU to throw a fit to them, get librul Oh Bummer's attention
>Instead calls all his conspiracy-theory nutcase friends over, they grab their guns and start waving Gadsen flags while raving about chemtrails, calling the BLM's R22 mustering choppers "gunships"
>They threaten the Feds there, plan on using women and children as human shields in the event of a gunfight
>Feds back off, Bundy's Snackless Revolutionaries claim victory
>Clearly know what the negro needs
>Ranchers have sentence increased by jerkass judge after serving time for accidentally starting a fucking forest fire
>Could contact ACLU, complain about government overreach and arbitrary sentencing
>Instead Bundy's Snackless Revolutionaries co-opt it, forget snacks
>Come out of the woodwork to seize federal property, intimidating locals
>Feds largely stay put
>Bundy Jr. decides he needs snacks, goes out to town to get some
>Forgets he broke the law
>Some numbnuts decided THE WAR IS ON, start shooting at cops
>One dead Snackless Revolutionary, another injured
>Now, Feds say "FUCK THIS" and move in
>Situation is getting more critical
>Meanwhile in California, natural resources are overtaxed by factory farming, enormous cities, and generally criminally poor land management in the name of the almighty dollar, causing massive drought
Yeah, except they were well organized of, recognized by, and armed, by the community, then later on by the government in which is of that community, we the people. The modern militia is the National Guard and State Defense Forces, in legal terms.
Also in legal terms, we, citizens of the United Sates, are part of the reserve (unorganized) militia. Remember signing the draft?
Who these folk are are a private organized militia not recognized by the people or state. They ain't no Oathkeeper organization either. The only vein they are similar to are that of Sagebrush and Whiskey Rebels. Private interest forces who are in opposition against the people.
Sovereign citizen and anarchist scum.
>defending yourself against the federal government isnt just when you're singled out
why dont they just legally arrest them then, why do they have to make a big stink out of steamrolling these cucks? just fucking do it already i dare you
Yeah, because all these farmers and ranchers rolling in and out of their gov't subsided ranches, houses, cars and foster kid to graze on rented land from public land the gov't bends over to let them use for a modest fee, so long as they don't fuck up like the Hammonds did, are so fucking poor and oppressed.
>let me backpedal to a point where i didnt read the fucking washington post link, and instead completely make shit up about a demographic and culture i know nothing about
are you really gonna make me keep replying
They tried doing that. It worked at the cost of one life and a wounded man, and this was done by just regular ass law enforcement. The militants at this moment are the ones who will decide whether this will end in arrests or bloodshed.
Theres two types of militias.
The organized militia, NG and possibly the army, and the unorganized militia, people who are not members of the NG and so on.
We're all part of the same militia technically, but we're the reserve more or less to fill in the organized if need be, or support it.
Like if shtf happens as the nat guard or state defense come in, you helping them is supplementing their forces and the unorganized and organized militia thus then is in action. Less I am wrong in this presumption.
There was a ton of citizen militias back in the old days. The Federal government had to request those militias. They didn't have to do anything for the Federal government if they choose to.
>you are not a farmer, i bet your dad wasnt either
Every fucking time.
The people who ultimately pay for my contracts aren't welders but I don't pull that nigger bullshit when I have to follow the same rules as everyone else.
The last time we let people farm as much land as they could without any restriction it caused the dust bowl. People are retarded about understanding consequences that will take several generations to come to a head and will absolutely ruin their environment for more now.
FFS people have to be stopped from dumping industrial waste into their own water tables and will sometimes try to get away with doing that even knowing what a shit idea it is.
The government is victim of private interests, not the private interest itself. It is up to us the people to commit to our duty to ensure such entities do not damage it and turn it for their own use.
The 2nd Amendment is a last resort though, we have not be striken our right to be able to participate and influence politics through lobby or vote. It is a hard process, but the history of the US has always been the struggle of doing such.
What these folk are doing are treating it as the first, second, and only option to force policy upon a county they are not even residence of.
>the government totally is absolved of responsibility for rewarding overfarming
read a fucking book nigger, everyone is taught in high school that that cuck roosevelt fucked everything up. tractors and chemicals facilitated the setup but roosevelt pulled the trigger
>the government should protect people from themselves
>even though the worst offenders that harm the most people are the ones whose fuckups have the most severe consequences, aka the people who fund the fucking federal government with lobbying
>i pay for your life because without land tax you wouldnt survive, therefore i have the right to remove you for not paying my land tax
let them starve, i dont give a fuck, letting them drown is a far cry from taking shit you gave to them earlier
>Everyone was taught in High School the Roosevelt fucked everything up.
Don't know which Koch bribed school you went to, but we were just told the history, not a political message.
>Let them starve
You have nothing to contribute anyways by this point, so its mostly about replies now.
>The government is victim of private interests, not the private interest itself.
Thats a funny way to say politicians are owned by corporations and special interest groups who bribe them
The victims are the citizens
And people are more interested in their bottom line right now than they are about what their kids will inherit 50 years from now, hence the overfarming and overtaxing of the land and the natural water reservoirs, hence the drought that's still wrecking shit in California and throughout the west, and it's all because of attitudes like yours
We are not separate entities like some kind of Banana Republic or Proxy State. We the people are the Government, our voices heard through our elected representatives, and through groups we form to have them be heard, which we call lobbies.
Curropt individuals will always exist and tamper with the system, the people's tool, that is gov't. It is us who must try our best by all democratic ways possible to hold them at bay, or else we get shit like the Gilded Age where private interests practically RAN the gov't harder on all levels than they try to do now.
It seems to me that private interests are trying to take away our constitutional freedoms and our elected representatives are colluding with them and removing our legal means of solving this problem
Perhaps they are trying, but we still have a chance. No need to go guns blazing like so many advocate. Read up on the Battle of Athens, even they, like the founders, exhausted peaceful means until officials decided none shall be allowed and instead force be used to enforce their oligarchy/monarch will. We're not that far in, yet.
About that drought, guess global warming went on break, lol.
>guess global warming went on break
Are you retarded?
California isn't the fucking barometer of climate change. I'm in New England and it was 50 today. Down South it was like 20. That's some fucked up shit, my African American amigo.
It's no longer a militia if they are taking orders from the Federal Government. It's just a state garrison at that point.
England is always like that, miserable. Like 6 years ago, you could see ice freezing directly on the light houses. Why you people continue to live there is beyond me since it's a shit hole.
I live in NEW England, you autist. Specifically the Free State of New Hampshire. We usually get a couple of wicked Nor Easters by now, but this year? Nothing. Last year? Next to nothing, then we were snowed in after Feb 1. The year before? Snowstorm on Halloween, then nothing until the end of January.
In the last decade we have had seven of the top ten hottest years on record. We have had floods, heat waves, ice storms, and generally apocalyptic weather. Shit is hitting the fan.
You underestimate the hipocracy of liberals.
Never heard of that. When was it passed by congress and signed in? Oh, that's right, never because you have no proof, but your own ideas of what constitutes part of the militia and not.
The militia may be called upon by the gov't at any time to enforce the laws and peace of this land. They do not cease to be simply because they are under the command of the federal, or local, gov't, which is how they are mobilized in the first damn place.
>People move half way across the globe to be away from England and then name their settlement "New England".
If the states don't run it entirely, it's not a state militia. Might as well be the Coast Guard.
>Can WE stop it?
I was raised here, too. I've seen our weather get increasingly violent. I never said we could stop it. We can fight it, though. Try to reverse some effects. It's better than letting the tide rise to the freaking North Country.
Yeah, it is a dumb name. But at least it isn't a bastardized injun name.
It isn't a shoot out as it was really one sided. It was the police that open fired on a guy with his hands up. No one fired a shot at the cops.
That is not what I call a shoot out.
>Hands up don't shoot!
>Dey dindu nuffin!
>Dem were good honest boys, all they did was start a shoot out with the EVIL LAW MAN!
>No justice no peace!
I swear, I left liberal sites because they were all fucking hypocrites, and now faggots like you come along and show that you are just as bad as the fucking SJWs.
I understand I'm just grumpy. This whole situation has pissed me off. I'm a militiaman, and these faggots are making me a target. My mother called me to make sure my militia isn't going to shoot up a fucking police station or something.
Dammit, guys, can't you see that this is what they want?
They want us to react violently, so they have an excuse to put us down. The turn the people against us, so those we protect sign our death warrants.
>can't you see that this is what they want?
Of course we can, but what else can we do? Last time I met with my guys half of us were crying for "REVOLUTION NOW!" If some of us fight, we all have to, because we'll be lumped in with them.
One of Roosevelt's campaign promises was to fix the environmental damages, i.e. the dust storms, you complete fucking retard.
What fucking bullshit school did you go to that taught you Roosevelt "pulled the trigger" on "tractors and chemicals" anyway? What does that even mean lmao
I was going to post something about the Koch brothers, but >>28710862 beat me to it.
But yeah, it's the fucking bourgeoisie.
California here. Our problem is that we don't build more reservoirs because what would greenpeace and the Sierra club think?
Keep in mind that Frisco has voted more than once to dynamite Hech-Hechi Reservoir and return it to nature.
This, by the way, is their only reliable source of water.
>We the people are the Government
The political class is an entirely separate entity from the general public. Do you know the last 10 decisions your representative made? Neither does 99.9% of the country. Don't pretend for a second that it's "the people" who run the country.
>they can't stop wanting to bring back the aristocracy
Well, not everyone...
Admittedly, he has his faults, but at least he want's to restore the Constitution and he doesn't seem to care that much about taking my guns.
I... there is so much wrong with this statement that I'm just going to leave this here. I, look. I'm tired of fighting your retardation. I'm tired of correcting your inability to research candidates before falling in love with them and I'm sick of hearing of the Koch Brothers used as a reason for literally every awful thing, regardless of veracity
He doesn't care that much about taking your guns provided that it's chambered in .243 Winchester, is manually cycled and holds three rounds in an internal magazine.
Fuck off reddit
>He thinks libertarianism and white nationalism are one and the same thing
Get a load of this pleb
That's a fake quote, Stalin completely disarmed the soviet populace starting in 1929 and guess what happened next - 10 million dead whites in Ukraine thanks to the zionist holodmor
Meanwhile natsocs were banning the Versailles gun control restrictions in germany starting in 1938
Those restrictions were on the state, not the populace. It's why every luger that you see has a four digit serial. They were hiding production.
And they still disarmed people that they didn't like so yeah... >>>/pol/
I don't care how he voted on a couple gun decisions. It's not an issue he pushes, so it's not something that will be as prevalent as it was under Obama, or as it would be under Shillary. That's why that is the issue she pushes in literally every debate, because it is the issue he cares the least about.
Furthermore, he will almost definitely use it as a bargaining chip. Looser gun laws in exchange for free college, or a tax on Wall Street. He is fighting for a million things, and gun control is not one of them.
Plus, corruption is entirely traceable to the Koch brothers. I have no idea what you are smoking man.
Stalin and other fascists represent Marx's ideals about as well as Obama represents Jefferson's.
Anyone know if those pussy footing outside militias have gotten some balls or turned full government cock suck mode?
It sounds like a fair bit have used the "Stand By" message, whatever that means. Even though its clear whats going on now is a mini waco.
Peaceful resolution in fed terms means arresting everyone without them putting up a fight. Violent resolution means shooting everyone and arresting those who survive. They do not consider a scenario where protesters get what they want to be a "resolution".
Actually that wasn't me. Obama is nothing like Stalin. He is simply the finest troll that the Democrats have ever produced.
I seriously would never compare any American president to a soviet dictator, no matter how much I dislike them.
Oh, and go fuck yourself.
>Stalin took guns
>therefore Marx must not have had the opposing view
Fucking what? Stalin was a Stalinist, not a Marxist, and later in life, Marx stated that he himself wasn't a Marxist.
I find him and the Stormfag equally disgusting and worthless. It isn't an either/or proposition. I'm allowed to hate both of them.
>Obviously not, only the ones who refused to surrender.
So the guy who said he would fight till his last breath, did, and you blame the cops?
Or should we just throw out our entire constitutionally mandated justice system?
Why didn't the second amendment protect them from the feds? You guys said guns would keep us safe but they didn't.
Also XXXth for Bundy is a bitch who didn't actually want to die for our freedoms. Don't stand up if you intend to sit back down
Exactly, he was a Marxist who closely followed the Marxist program.
Undeniably, communism & socialism are the worst plagues that mankind has ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Their death count is nearly as high as death itself.
But hey, no true scotsman, right? Don't forget to sign up to be purged, comrade.
LAVOY SWORE AN OATH!!!
An oath to catch a bullet in his teeth.
And he kept that oath.
>cops shoot dindu for broken taillight
>Fuck that ape! He should obey the law!
>cops shoot ofay for armed insurrection
>OH, THE HORROR! HE DINDU NUFFIN! POLICE STATE! DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!
>peacefully took up arms
lol. When you fixin' to kill, you best be fixin' to die.
The significant amount of anti-Native aggression was from Hamilton.
Learn your own country's history, asshole
>if dirty foreigner
You're probably just mad we won so much land a while ago.
The militia, according to the founders, was every man protecting the land which he owned. Considering that America was the first place a man could OWN the land he lived on (rather than lease it from the king) in their memory, that was a big fucking deal. The whole point of it was to say "An army only has X% of the population. If we have literally every male citizen armed with the duty to protect his home, there's no such thing as an army BIG ENOUGH to take it from us all!"
They were drafting this stuff in a wartime atmosphere, so some of them wanted it a step further, requiring all men show up to a training once in a while, to keep them sharp, but that was to keep the defense strong, not as a prerequisite to defending one's home with a rifle.
Also, let's not forget that it was specifically intended that the federal government have no standing armies. If ever the feds wanted to fight a war, they would call on the state militias, who would join forces for the duration of the war, and then dissolve back to their home states. That way the federal government could never turn tyrannical, because it would literally have no power to do so.
That practice went out the window pretty fucking fast, unfortunately.
>Also, let's not forget that it was specifically intended that the federal government have no standing armies. If ever the feds wanted to fight a war, they would call on the state militias, who would join forces for the duration of the war, and then dissolve back to their home states. That way the federal government could never turn tyrannical, because it would literally have no power to do so.
George Washington called on the militia to suppress tax protestors in Kentucky. He was pretty effective in being a tyrant.
>muh global warming isn't real
Anyone with even mild pattern recognition skills, a trait considered essential in what divides human intelligence from that of animals, would disagree with you
>The occupation of Malheur resulted in no property damage
>Tearing down fences, ripping out cameras, doing who knows what with government vehicles, digging ditches, and people living in a nonresidency office is no property damage
>people living in a nonresidency office is no property damage
oh shit guys, sleeping on the floor of a office is now property damage. they dont make them floors like they used to, lay down on one and you'll instantly have a impression of your body on the floor. they'll have to rip out the carpeting, subflooring and even replace the fucking floor joists.
plz gas yourself
You can find out all of that information pretty easily with some basic google-fu. Fark just has it all collected.
But you're the one shitposting on a mongolian tapestry enthusiast club page so I'm sure you're a more reliable source than fark
Full Definition of militia
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency b : a body of citizens organized for military service
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service
Lol the guys who make a big show in the media and wave their tacticool shit around angrily for 5 minutes in the spotlight and then bail pretty much immediately afterwards.
Fuck those assholes.
>why do they have to make a big stink out of steamrolling these cucks?
Because when that happened at Waco it lead to another one of those cucks blowing up a federal building and murdering 19 children.
Of course they're going to show some fucking restraint since that's basically exactly what these assholes want to happen
Different anon but
The second amendment was intended to keep the populace armed and ready for military action in case the need to defend the State arises. It was rendered obsolete when the USA began keeping a standing army. "A well regulated militia being necessary for the defense of a free state..." and all that.
pro-2nd people always, tellingly, always leave out that "well regulated militia" sentence, and imagine it means they can have funs for whatever the fuck reason they want..
Before you call me anti fun, I will also point out that the Supreme Court ruled against my interpretation in 2008 in District of Columbia v. Heller, so in every legal sense the pro-funz people are actually correct. My interpretation is thus limited to historical speculation with no modern relevance, and I accept that.
Except he gave an interview on national news saying he would shoot anybody that tried to arrest him. Multiple times.
Obviously the cops weren't going to give him the opportunity to do that.
Damn straight that's speculation! The spirit of the amendment is actually that if the government turns tyrannic, the people have a way of imposing their will against it.
>these people are heroes and you should all be ashamed
The target was obviously not civilian or the children as evidenced by what was in the building and the casualty list.
Always with muh keeds with you people. You may as well be a soccer mom.
I wouldn't go that far. His heart was in the right place, but his method was negligent and he ended up killing people who were not federal employees.
Jesus christ, dude.
I'm not American, but I think the 10th Amendment speaks pretty well to the mindset of the founding fathers...
>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
>or to the people
Even in the founders Utopia, which didn't happen, there was to be an army during wartime that wouldn't be standing during peacetime. The militia represented a check on the federal army manhandling the states even in their best case scenario as well as a rapid first line of defense against foreigners, indians, upitty slaves etc.
Is it just me, or has there been a tangible change in ideological leaning on /k/ over the past couple years (and especially since the Bundy incident)? It used to be that most of /k/ was composed of minarchist constitutionalists who were typically against the federal government in its current form. What accounts for this bizarre shift? A new generation of posters? Reddit invasion? Government psyops, like one anon said?
Anons who have been here for at least 5 years, do you notice it too? It's not just me, right?
standing armies could never match the strength of numbers of every single Joe Bob on a farm carrying a gun. THAT is the purpose of the militia. To have 200 million guns pointed in the nation's defense -- not 2 million.
Agreed, but the constitution has changed since then, as has it's enforcement (via Supreme Court over the centuries). So now YOU are the one making useless historical speculation.
Unless you can get a constitutional amendment passed that overturns the modern levels of federal authority, that authority remains both legal and constitutional. Remember, the supreme court was given that power *by the constitution*. It'll take a constitutional amendment to overturn their decisions.
So get votin'
Two words: commerce clause. This was the first crack in the dike, that turned the stream of federal government expansion into a raging torrent. It can be used to justify literally any regulations. Look up Wickard v. Filburn.
See, that's the thing.
Basically every gun law is anti-constitutional, but instead of just trying to amend the constitution, they pass more laws that get shot down the moment they get to the SCOTUS. It's fucking lunacy.
Yup. I love how manufacturing a firearm in one state for personal use and then moving to another state 10 years later counts as "interstate commerce" to some government asshats.
You don't need to, though.
Not when they can't into even the most basic of basic siege warfare. Already needing outside resupply after 2 days is indicative of pretty fucking poor planning and an even poorer grasp of what an actual war would entail.
>ywn live in pisshole America
>ywn watch liberals and women destroy your country
No they aren't. If the government had wanted to, they could have swatted the Oregon rebels like a fly with an F-16 or drone strike from an altitude far beyond their range of reply. All their guns would have meant literally nothing.
It's a sign that we live in a free state and not bumfuckistan that government chose not to do that. Perspective. It's a thing.
That, and everyone is watching.
If they just clusterbomb the assholes it looks bad on them to the rest of the world and they don't want some random ass country to start helping some kind of rebel shit with Iglas and etc.Best to keep it a police matter when you're killing people because you don't want to honor an agreement you made.
Wouldn't be the first time the US has done it, won't be the last. It's just business as usual, and we can learn from it - never do any business with the federal government under any circumstances.
>He thinks libertarianism and white nationalism are one and the same thing
Libertarianism and white nationalism ARE THE FUCKING ONE AND THE SAME THING, they are political ideologies, thus they go to /pol/.
You'll just have to make one and hide it, anon.
I'll leave you to it, i'll just wear muh ears. I don't need one that bad.
The stupid hurts, but I don't feel like making myself stand out and end up on some list because I want a cool thing.
It isn't just you but it's easier to manufacture consent when one guy can have 5 sock puppet accounts. You're right in identifying most of /k/ as constitutionalist and as a result the need to manufacture consent surrounding a very charged and precarious situation as this is becomes more pertinent. If we were allowed to freely agree or disagree with what's happening then it would follow that most of /k/ would empathize. The last thing the government wants in a situation as this is a bunch of like minded well armed individuals capable of rapidly mobilizing for this cause. It's an eloquent reaction to a possible action that would allow this to be the powder keg needed for an insurrection.
So make one, and shoot it ok private land or innawoods. Why the fuck does everyone think the ATF uses psychics to pinpoint all crimes in real time or some shit? They will never find out if you don't go around waving your unstamped suppressor at everyone you meet.
Active Duty/Reserve not militia, they are specifically prohibited from doing anything but training/civil relief on US soil except in defense against a foreign enemy. National Guard is state-funded and is the organized militia. Reserve has no combat arms units, as well.
>The second amendment was intended to keep the populace armed and ready for military action in case the need to defend the State arises.
False you stupid fuck.
Educate yourself. Foreign and domestic. Ever heard of government tyranny or is the newspeak already getting to you?
"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies."
Sry, meant to quote >>28711787
>hurr durr yelling kike, nigger, shill and fuck the feds and posting Trump pictures isn't political at all!!!
You're not that stupid. You know better. You do this on purpose.
You understand that courts are not some magical impartial entity, right? Look at SCOTUS during FDR's New Deal. That shit wouldn't fly a decade prior, but when you have judges sympathetic to the government, you get rulings sympathetic to the government.
While I admit to the possibility that you are correct, I prefer to believe it's because the government (or at least the military - I don't trust the politicians at all) wants to do the right thing on occasion. So sue me I'm an optimist.
Good. Oathkeepers are 90% cucks and stolen valor faggots.
I went to a meeting at my local "group".
Most of the people who showed up were worried about Obama being a secret Moslem, one kid was pretending to have worked in "spec ops" (he later claimed to me when I saw him out and about that he was part of "11th Airborne" a reactivated "spec ops" unit) and he looked like he just got done working on puberty, and it was just cringe the whole time.
Holy fuck you're the most climatologically illiterate motherfucker to grace this thread.
ONE MONTH of precipitation data is not evidence of climate change. "Global warming" (you're actually referencing climate change, of which global warming is only one factor) is a process measured in thousands of years, at the very least.
The issue isn't purely that the earth us getting warmer. The issue is that we should be in an ice age, but we're not. A domino effect, of sorts, is what we are worried about. Is forestalling an ice age going to set us up for what could be the worst ice age the earth has ever seen, capable of causing mass extinction and rendering the earth uninhabitable for humans?
Or will it swing the other way, skipping an ice age all together and swinging back into a hotter, wetter climate like the dinosaurs experienced? This also poses problems for humans.
TL;DR you're a god damned idiot if you think one month of precipitation data means fuck-all in terms of climate change.
Wildlife Ecologist here -the "Ecologist" part of that is largely concerned with climatology.
Let's do some quick math... Hell, I'll even stack it as far in the government's favour as I can just for the sake of the argument...
Population of the US: ~318,900,000
Portion of population that admits to owning at least one gun: ~30%
Total number of guns owners: ≥ ~95,670,000
Let's assume that every single government employee is a gun owner (obviously false, but we're stacking the deck, right?). Let's also assume that every single government employee would side with the government.
Total number of federal government employees (including mailmen, temps, people in certain training programs, etc): ~4,185,000
So, if we remove every single one of them from the total pool of gun owners, that ends up being...
91,485,000 vs 4,185,000
21.86 vs 1
It only takes a handful of people to fuck shit up royally. ESPECIALLY if they have outside help.
The government is terrified and with good reason.
Guns don't win wars. Logistics wins wars. Unless the rebels are organized, none of that would mean jack. And a handfull of redneck militias that can't even supply 30 occupiers for 2 days without calling to twitter for help doesn't count.
Now, if a rebellion could get seriously organized, it would be really easy to cut of the army's logistics within the states and level the playing field. But no way are the lolkeepers or any other "militia" I've actually seen organized to pull that off. It'll take break-off leadership from within the military to do it.
But then China and/or Russia would fuck us hard so that would be stupid, even from the rebel's point of view.
Would it be totally impossible for you to understand that the "gun community" or what you wanna call it has changed with the society in general, the rise of gun ownership and simply not seeing the every turn of the so called murky Washington jew gubament trying to fuck them over in every turn they get? Would it be that the anti-feds are just stuck in their world view of seeing every federal decision as a new redcoat conspiracy they need to answer with an over 200-year-old interpretation of the their holy paper they aren't able to put in a modern context? Stuff like choosing to defend the sound reasoning of the Branch Davidians over the federal agencies is something I can never get in todays /k/ parlance no matter how hard the NG and the FBI fucked up that one time.
This is the thing you have to understand. You've been conditioned to believe that it's sketchy or wrong to do this, when actually there is no issue whatsoever. Consider that most yuropoor countries hand out suppressors like fucking candy, so nobody there thinks that it's "sketchy". On the other hand, in countries where gun ownership is heavily regulated, owning standard cap mags or even plinking innawoods would be considered sketchy, whereas you'd think nothing of it. Change your perspective, and you'll see that there is no issue aside from a government that wants to attack you if you merely own a thing without giving them their cut.
You understand that the continued expansion of government power will result in America turning into the UK? Can you think of a reason why some people might not want that?
Also, you should know that supporters of the constitution, and the "old context" don't do it because they venerate a piece of paper. It's because they see those values and ideals as being far preferable to what we have today. What you fail to grasp is that those values are not some old-timey gibberish that is entirely inapplicable today. They are just as relevant now as before, because values exist independent of time. I recommend actually reading material involving political philosophy of that time (and then graduating to reading contemporary theory based on that). You may find that you didn't have as accurate an understanding of the issue as you thought.
I don't believe that narrative for a fucking second. I certainly don't trust the government but the dude went on national news and said flat out he was going to shoot anybody that tried to arrest him.
Like, there's literal, actual video evidence of him saying that on live tv to the entire planet.
somebody has never actually heard that interview. he never said he would shoot anybody. he said he would rather die than spend his life in a concrete box. he died with his hands up asking to be killed. the man was no liar.
And I don't believe the narrative spun by the mainstream media and the Federal government.
I believe this narrative:
Why? Consider the motives of each side...
And what they do in the event they find something is to dig it up, so that construction can continue. Kind of like what happened in Malheur. They already have artifacts galore, both on display and in storage in the basement.
sorry we didnt win the lottery as semen and wind up in a swiss dudes ballsack, ill still take usa over just about every other country except maybe finnland and yours
i wish i could go bacballsackn tho
>believing the federal government
You're like a battered wife, m8. You can get the shit beaten out of you time and time again, but you'll always forgive and come back for more after a simple "but baby I still love you".
>It's not free martyrdom when they'll invariably tell us the dash cam wasn't working.
>In December, Chicago's interim police superintendent, John Escalante, started handing out reprimands and suspensions of up to three days to officers who damaged their dash cams.
meanwhile if your just a citizen you get charged with a felony for damaging a police car
>Dionte Rice, 19, of the 11600 block of South Church Street was charged with a felony count of criminal damage to property after police saw him damaging the marked police car, police said.
Do you know if /k/ has a dedicated mod, or if mods are shared between boards? Because it's pretty clear that our current mod(s) is not from around here, or at least has only been here for 2 years max.
Who gives a fuck, ban evading takes 30-45 seconds assuming you have dhcp
>unintended wear and tear
>dirty fucks staining the floors
>likely food debris attracting vermin
Luckily my pc and phone providers aren't the same.
Though posting on a android is pain sometimes, not enough memory for images (deleted them all anyway lol), posting images via URL is more complicated, sometimes the autocomplete bug the fuck out and places the word somewhere else, also the post form does not like spaces after words that end right at the form limit (so i have to glue two words together and then separate them)
Or you could get rid of it and save everyone not only the cost of repairs, but the cost of maintaining and staffing it. Where in the constitution does it say that the federal government should be operating fucking nature preserves?
Elastic clause allows congress to pass laws necessary for the execution of enumerated powers permitted by the constitution. Again, there is nothing in the constitution that explicitly permits the federal government to operate nature preserves. And if you go down the road of invoking the commerce clause, you're opening a colossal can of worms that allows literally any arbitrary expansion of government power.
>promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity
>Implying preserving the beauty and diversity of our nation's ecosystem isn't implied
>Hurr if it isn't spucificully in duh cuntstitution it cunt be dun
This is literally how it works, are you retarded? Whether a bill is constitutional or not is what decides if it stays or gets struck down. If you simply declare "everything that I believe serves to meet the aims set out in the preamble of the constitution is constitutional", then there's no fucking point in having a constitution anyway.
What is it about "enumerated powers" that you don't understand?
>It's not a strict document
It is literally that, holy shit.
Section 8 lists the things congress is authorized to do:
1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And
18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
The Tenth Amendment states that it cannot do things outside of this list:
>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
> provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States
>To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts
Gee, like protecting natural resources?
Plus, the 18th is ENTIRELY open
ended, it says that Congress can make laws regarding the implementation of the Constitution, including, it could be argued, the promotion of general welfare and the security of the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.