I think the government should just roll in there with tanks and flamethrowers.
This pansy shit is just an invitation to future crackpots to "overthrow" their local post office/game warden/IRS office/etc.
We need Waco 2.0 but with better weapons and a live HD feed.
But let me guess, next thread you'll be the first to be all ebin and post the "G-G-GRAB MUH SKS GO INNAWOODS!"
I swear /k/, this is what happens. Statist bootlicking fucks, the lot of you.
I will now save everyone in this thread some time:
>good they were criminals who make gun owners look bad
>They were fighting injustice and a corrupt govt.
>DEY WAS GUD BOIS, DINDU NUFFIN, TRYING TO MAKE ENDS MEET, WHITEY KEEPIN US DOWN
>FBI PLZ GO, AM I BEING DETAINED?!
I like how the >bootlicker people and the >dindunuffin people are usually the same people.
I have no idea how they think they are logical reasonable people. Pick one or the other people.
>a human being actually died over this
This is the result of inbreeding and mental retardation. Sorry to the Oregon militiafags, but you are some of the dumbest fuckers to walk this planet.
And we need to give the indians reparations for losing their land
But whiteys who owned it for 100+ years deserve to have their land stolen, and left to starve.
After all, some large business wants to develop that land!
People are going to tell you not to worry about it, and will call you a nutcase. But keep on that path, regardless of what uninformed or intentionally misleading individuals say.
No they'll actually demand a drone strike if that happens.
What concerns me if there have been people calling for the government to put a hellfire through the roof since the start of it.
The worst part of this whole thing in my opinion is that there are people who would rather say "FUCK IT, BOMB THE BUILDING, SMEAR THEM OVER THE FIELDS" than actually consider that the gov isn't being completely honest.
You guys are aware that the federal building housed like a half dozen federal agencies, two armed services recruiting stations and a fucking day-care center, right?
>What a great way to make sure Trump is elected.
Yeah, killing a group who murders federal agents over stupid crap sure is going to sway the liberals into voting for trump.
If there's no collateral damage no-one on the left would give a fuck, don't delude yourself.
Friendly reminder that NO ATF AGENTS WERE KILLED IN THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING. Thats right, mcvey and the militia got so mad at the ATF that they murder over 300 people... none of whom worked for the ATF and dozens of whome weren't even government employees.
>Yeah, killing a group who murders federal agents over stupid crap sure is going to sway the liberals into voting for trump.
It's not about the liberals, it's about pissing off conservatives so much that the happening will happen
This is the result of BLM shit happening over the course of many years.
>In the hypothetical to which his answer and my reply was based on, they had.
well I feel like a fool then
If people are legit pissed of at you doing nothing is not going to help either.
Fear is how dictatorships work. If people can start to talk freely and organize, you've got a shitstorm coming.
Yea, faggot. If the current landholders are bitching about it being "not their land no more", the indians have more of a claim to that. There's no way you can slice this that'll make it work
>have no concept of ownership
>get mad when other people take something you don't even really believe you own
Besides, whites came here first, we just took back what we already had.
>white people of European descent here first instead of people who were originally here from the start
You fags always crack me up. So it's ok when an oppressive force comes in and buttfucks one group. But it's not OK when an oppressive force comes in and buttfucks the ones who previously did the buttfucking. Right?
>If people are legit pissed of at you doing nothing is not going to help either.
I think it is.
It's a small minority of people that are pissed of about such things, the common man doesn't really care until flamethrowers and tanks start getting involved.
Agitators grow bored when nothing happens and give up or attempt to push the boundary so far that the state can push back harder without looking bad.
You're right. They got there first and were the current landholders at the time, dumbfuck. If you're going to bitch about the bundyfags being "the current landholders" and having some sort of claim, they have an even better claim by sheer virtue of being there first. Cockhead
>ur bias lol
If you can't refute the article just attack the name lol it always works
If anything the fact that they wear their political affiliation in the name is already enough to earn more trust than any major news outlet. Regardless, this is a BLM issue.
>Indians have more of a claim to that
Based on what? They aren't the original owners of that land nor are they the current owners. Their claim is feel good fiction, when they're only in the area at all due to their alcohol bux from the government.
>Humans didn't evolve on the North or South American continents, try again, faggot.
>being actually this fucking retarded
>retard ranchers poaching on federal land
>start wildfire to destroy evidence
>get prosecuted for starting wildfire
>bundy and his fuck boys show up in an attempt to stay relevant
>expose themselves as hypocritics dependent on federal govt. Tax breaks
>break the law
>everyone is ass blasted
>next week no one will care
>probably a week after that a sovereign citizen goes off his med and kills a cop.
That about sums it up. So was anyone else at Shot Show?
Dramatis personae, as of yesterday
Ammon Bundy: Son of deadbeat rancher Cliven "Let me tell you about the Negro" Bundy. Neither a rancher nor an Oregonian. Lengthy arrest record.
Ryan Bundy:The guy with the facial paralysis. Brother of Ammon. Neither a rancher nor an Oregonian. Lengthy arrest record.
Brian "Booda" Cavalier: Claimed to be a former U.S. Marine Scout/Sniper, with service in Iraq and Afghanistan. No military service whatsoever. Another ex-con with a lengthy record. He's the doofus in the "Major League Sniper" hat. Allegedly left the site after his made-up military service offended the other guys with made-up military service. Recent photographs suggest he may have returned to the site.
Blaine Cooper: Claimed to be a U.S. Marine veteran. Signed up for the Marines under the Delayed Entry Program, never reported to USMC boot camp. Usually strutting around in Army Multi-Cam. His wife is also allegedly at the site. Has a rap sheet a mile long. That's not his original name. He legally changed it. If it sounds familiar, it's Jesse Ventura's character's name from Predator.
LaVoy Finicum: Huh, an actual rancher. His "income" (his words) is running a foster kid orphanage out of his house and collecting over $100,000 annually from a government-financed charity. This capitalist libertarian hero is most likely using his foster kids as government-funded ranch hands, and still can't turn a profit. Last seen hiding under a blue tarp. [UPDATE: the tarp wasn't bulletproof]
David Fry:Neo-Nazi and ISIS supporter, he likes both over their shared hatred of Jews. On-site communications and social media officer.
Captain Moroni:Won't give his real name. Named after a figure in Mormon scripture. Based on his ridiculous choice in camouflage patterns and the fact he's wearing a hot climate boonie hat in January (he eventually put a knit cap on, then put the boonie hat back on OVER it), I doubt he's actually been in the military.
Joe "Captain O" O'Shaugnessy:Claims to be a captain in some Arizona militia. Allegedly fled the site after stealing their donation jar to go get drunk at a local motel.
Ryan Payne: Claimed to be a former Army Ranger. Actually served in U.S. Army with two deployments to Iraq. But was never a Ranger. Never attended (much less graduated) from Ranger School, and was never assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment, even in a support role. Neither Tabbed nor Scrolled. Amended this to being part of a Secret Squirrel unit for the XVIII Airborne Corps. Always writes it as "18," despite the Army is very specific that Corps-level units use Roman numerals. I'm not sure if he's even graduated Jump School.
Maureen Peltier:Their Facebook Communications Officer who is not actually at the site. She claims to be a current member of the Washington State National Guard, but has not attended drill since 2014. This anti-government warrior is currently appealing her pending discharge to score a full disability retirement. She is also a "person of interest" in the theft of explosives from her battalion's armory.
Jon Ritzheimer: Actual U.S. Marine Corps veteran. Served in Iraq with a Motor Transportation Company as a truck driver. Claims to have seen extensive combat, yet never earned a Combat Action Ribbon. Says he was kicked out of the USMC Reserve for having "excessive tattoos." At the time of his discharge, the USMC tattoo policy did not prohibit excessive tattoos, only those that were racist or showed solidarity with extremist hate groups. He is financially supported by his government disability check and his wife's job. Star of the I AM ANGRY ABOUT THE DILDO video.
Joseph Arthur Stetson: Arrested for DUI en route to the site. Claimed to be a retired U.S. Army Special Forces colonel, whose records were personally sealed by President Reagan. None of the math adds up on his age, alleged rank and claimed military service with Reagan's term in office. At least one conviction for domestic violence, for vandalizing his ex-wife's trailer.
Neil Wampler: Became involved with the militia movement because he was outraged that he is no longer legally allowed to own firearms, over the minor issue of being convicted of murdering his own father. When asked how they felt about having a convicted murderer in their militia, the Bundy brothers and LaVoy Finicum claimed to have never heard of him, and deny he's at the site. Yes, there are photographs of him wandering around the site.
Washington state Rep. Graham Hunt: A passionate supporter of the militia and has personally visited them at the site. Claims to have seen extensive combat on multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and claims to have been wounded in combat. His records show he deployed once for six months to a base in Saudi Arabia hundreds of miles from the Iraq border, was never wounded, and never saw combat. He also posted this digitally altered photograph which he claims depicted him just narrowly surviving a mortar attack in 2005. It is actually two soldiers from an Ohio National Guard Military Police Company who just witnessed several Iraqi children severely wounded by a bomb blast in 2003. Their Army insignia was 'shopped out and replaced with Air Force insignia.
So might makes right, except when you're on the loosing side.
Oh yea, I think that too. They should've fought harder.
But then again, so should the bundy fags :^) When the feds come in and kill them all, I'll just say that next time around, because obviously wrong things are OK no matter how wrong they are, as long as the guys getting buttfucked didn't fight hard enough
No it isn't. The BLM have zero ducking do,tell over those ranchers finishing their sentences. The whole thing is just dickwaving by morons who, thanks to the "care packages" have a large surplus of dicks with which to wave.
to see all of these edgy outsiders saying the protesters should be shot to death?
This place is like the MSNBC comments section now
>these primitive tools look same
>must be WHITE MEN
nigger there are only so many ways you can make an arrowhead.
Anyway if it were true it wouldn't matter because they left and Native Americans showed up and owned America :^)
Seems the Bundy's didn't get that memo.
Edgy people calling for this or that guy to be killed? On /k/?
Sounds like locals to me, even if they don't echo back your every opinion.
Because the constitution!
>I guess the Arabs better give back all that land they stole from Christians, then :^)
We took it back noob.
>Besides, if the ranchers had a legitimate greivance they could pursue it through the legal system
They tried and they lost. There are murmurings of a corrupt judge or some shit who retired immediately after the case.
Have you heard of the
Blue-eyed voice of God!
He didn't come from the Middle East
Like those other holy men!
No, God's favorite prophet was...
What say do they have according to you? Can we hunt/hike/shoot on those lands? Yes? If no, can't we appeal that shit legally in a court of law, via writing to our representatives and the like, like we do with everything else to get public ordinances covered? I don't see how it's not "the people's" land as is.
>Because the constitution!
wow you're really on the right side of history and clever like Jon Stewart
it's edgy and childish to support the constitution but wanting these protesters to get shot to death is progressive and smart
keep fighting the brave fight, warrior
I've noticed that most of the calls for screaming obliteration or some kind of bloodbath come from the "progressive liberal" types.
That kind of shit is frightening, as they're literally advocating the state-sponsored death of people they disagree with politically.
Your mistake is that you think the federal government cares about the people of the state. they want the land for its resources and to sell to foreign countries. If they had their way you wouldn't be able to shoot/hunt/hike on their land. You can try all you want but you cannot beat the federal government in their own court system. If the school bully is taking your lunch money and the principal is his dad, and his entire extended family is on the school board, what do you do?
I'm >>28705541 and not >>28705584. How is them seizing public land and desecrating it justified? They're defiling the land of the people they themselves are claiming to be protecting. If they have some beef with the government, why not storm/capture a courthouse? Why not occupy the city hall and demand for a retrial? The only thing I see in this whole thing is them dropping the ball and making shitty choice after shitty choice. I want to side with them, but I enjoy hiking in my desert far too much to support them fucking it up for everyone else.
What else can you expect from doublethink experts.
>as they're literally advocating the state-sponsored death of people they disagree with politically.
The concept of sovereignty and its defense by force is something pretty much everyone in the world agrees with.
>Your mistake is that you think the federal government cares about the people of the state. they want the land for its resources and to sell to foreign countries.
Where I live, we've had the Fish and Game department and the BLM help clean rivers and start stocking fish for locals to enjoy after an elementary school project. The kids wanted to fish in the wild, and after going through the legal process (writing to reps, getting signatures and garnering support), it happened. I've helped clean up various different shooting areas from all the gunk and junk people leave behind, and helped re-open a lot of those lands up for shooting and hunting. I'm very much for hunting, fishing, shooting, hiking and enjoying these "federal" lands, and would like for future generations to keep doing so. I happily pay for a fishing and hunting license, knowing how that goes back into the system, and allows me and my children to enjoy a weekend out in the woods, and hopefully their children too. It's a small price to pay, but so be it. I live in the suburbs, and while my dream has always been to own land of mine to shoot and hunt in, in the meantime, I enjoy and appreciate the fact that there's thousands of thousands of acres of public lands, animal refuges and natural parks preserved. When the 7n6 and m855 ban came down, I wrote to people and made the best effort I could to have it overturned.
I just don't see how them burning an area illegally somehow equals keeping our trails, our hunting areas, our parks "free for the people"
>it's fine if the government massacres a bunch of hicks for camping in an unused building with guns
>but if a cop shoots a big nig trying to steal his gun then the whole system needs to be overthrown
Fines and shit for just ranching.
>I bet they would have more support if they had a go fund me account instead of acting like trailer trash
Yes but they're PNW so they're fucking rats.
No citations, a link that says "further citations" leads to the Bundy's blog detailing the same story (again with no citations) none of which mentions the fact that the ranchers are back in jail because they hadn't served their full sentences. It's called a mandatory minimum for a reason. It's fucking mandatory. If you want to campaign against mandatory minimums, fine, do that. Doing this is just wasting everybody's time.
This cunty "well they deserve to be shot to death for protesting the government, #YallQueda" shit is certainly from outside of /k/
the "Go back to /pol/" followed by "wow look at me I'm one of you fellows and I also hate jews/niggers/libruls" is very typical posting behavior of reddit raiders and leftypol
And then the Occupy movement gets crushed, in many cases quite literally, and the right cheers.
And then both stand there wondering about all the police brutality.
It's national fucking suicide.
The permit costs for cattle grazing on public lands are dirt cheap compared to what ranchers bring in. That coupled with govt farm subsidies for just damn near anything IMO don't give these guys a leg to stand on other than they hate the govt. And want free stuff
>And then the Occupy movement gets crushed, in many cases quite literally, and the right cheers.
Because smelly leftists tried to shut down wallstreet so they could "redistribute"
>compared to what ranchers bring in.
BLM was taking large portions of the ranch for public land. Ranch income has diminished.
I don't know why you think government agencies don't play people into doing what they want.
It's like how hughes is designed so that machineguns get scarcer because they get used and worn out and borken over time, eventually making them unavailable.
No, that's you being unable to deal with dissenting voices in the hugbox, and resorting to paranoid retardation. Truth is, you don't quite have the popular support you thought you had, even here where in what you thought was a safe place.
There's a time and a place for use of the second amendment. I don't think this was it. As far as I know, the people they were supposedly on the side of... didn't really even want them there.
That said, it shows what you can get away with.
Remember when the "Occupy" clowns got their shit steamrolled for illegally, uh, occupying various places? I bet that wouldn't have happened if they all had rifles. The situation would have been handled much more delicately.
>inb4 someone points out that guns cost money, which 'Occupy' doesn't have.
Yes, the popular stand on /k/ is that pro-Second Amendment protesters should be shot to death for demonstrating because it's the progressive thing to do
If you don't agree with this logic then you should go find a hugbox because /k/ is now vehemently anti-gun
>retired immediately after the case.
You mean the judge that sentenced them to 3mo. and 12mo. sentences that were well below the 5yr. mandatory minimum? I'm sure his trying to cut them a break is an indication of him trying to screw them.
This is my stance on the whole thing.
>Is their cause stupid?
Yea, a bit.
>Do I agree with it?
I don't agree with the whole getting tossed back in jail thing, but I'm no lawyer, and that's not up to me to decide. However, I also don't agree with them illegally burning public land. I particularly have no dog in this fight
>Should they be allowed to do this?
Yea. That's what the 2nd is for. They have a cause, or believe they have a cause, and are occupying an area, albeit armed. So what? They're so far, not shooting up people, and it seems like the feds SO far, aren't just going in there and shooting up the place either. That's their own battle, and I'm surprised it's been this nice so far.
I think it's justified for them to claim use of the 2nd because in the end, being "right or wrong" is irrelevant to the second. The colonists weren't right in the eyes of the british, after all. What truly matters in the end, like in all things, is who has more support, who can fight the longest, and who wins that fight. I have no real reason to go out there and start shit, and believe there are more pressing issues that should take precedence. But it's their lives, and they know how they're going to live them.
>why not storm/capture a courthouse? Why not occupy the city hall and demand for a retrial?
Because that would be hard, actually require effort, and actually carry some risk in the initial attempt.
The difference is that Wall Street is a loose grouping of private firms, so redistribution of their assets is tantamount to robbery. A nature preservation is government land, that according to any reading of the Constitution that doesn't involve a gold medal in legal gymnastics, they are prohibited from owning.
In the former case, you're dealing with rightful property. In the latter, illegitimate property. That is the difference.
Such an approach would be far too strong, and be shut down immediately before any controversy could spread. When you're doing shit like this, you can't march on the white house and demand change, because you'll all be arrested and end up as a sidenote in the morning papers. They aren't trying to win a gunfight against the entire government, they're trying to publicize their cause, and that requires enough commotion that people notice, but not so much that they get raided on the first day. This is why they took great pains to emphasize the "peaceful" nature of their occupation, in a place where nobody would be inconvenienced (because the second you start to make life difficult for the average person, it automatically turns them against your cause).
This shit is far more nuanced that you think.
>it's fine if the government massacres a bunch of hicks for camping in an unused building with guns
>but if a cop shoots a big nig trying to steal his gun then the whole system needs to be overthrown
>mfw my dad keeps telling me the guvment needs to go in there to kill them to teach dem goddamn militia faggots a lesson
>mfw my mom thinks that they are keeping "the locals" from using the property because the feds padlocked the front gate and that they're "hurting the environment ;_;" by being there sustainably camping in the parking lot of maintenance building
>mfw they keep calling me racist when I don't agree with them about zimzam/coon of the week shot by the cops for doing this thing called "crime" but want to kill these (admittedly retarded 3%ers) for trespassing.
Do you want peer reviewed scholarly journals on this shit? Not him, but you're pretty fucking stupid.
>first hand accounts have to have links and citations to what others said, despite you being the fucking source, and posting it on your blog because the British Medical Inquiry Journal will obviously have a piece on it in its 3rd issue this year
>I don't know the inevitable result of civil disobedience
Do you have the memory of a squirrel, or are you just sheltered from the outside world?
And those are pretty fucking reliable, ain't they? What with all the news outlets reporting and confirming those shots that happened yesterday, and being able to pick and choose what and how they report things.
Dresden was a military target during a declared war. The act itself was legal by the rules of war at the time. Now it isn't. Also what declared war was the US involved with in 1995 and which hostile nation's colors did McVeigh wear?
>>retard ranchers poaching on federal land
>>start wildfire to destroy evidence
>>get prosecuted for starting wildfire
>>bundy and his fuck boys show up in an attempt to stay relevant
>>expose themselves as hypocritics dependent on federal govt. Tax breaks
>>break the law
>>everyone is ass blasted
what evidence is there of poaching besides a regular controlled burn that they started to clear their own property that spread to fed owned land that was dangerously full of fire hazards and had unmaintained fire breaks? the only argument I've seen for "hurr dey were poaching!" is "hurr dey lit a fire to destroy da evidence!"
as someone who worked at a federally funded natural area, the best damn thing for it would be to fucking burn due to arson or lightning because state/federal/county regs on scheduling controlled burns are too many hoops to weave through, which leads to a build up of ground cover, deadfall, etc. that means when a fire does happen it's damages the ecosystem instead of help it. Fire controlled ecosystems are a thing and big daddy government makes it too hard to maintain them effectively, leading to shit like this "arson".
Just because someone has said it's happening doesn't mean it is happening. The onus is on the person that makes the claim to prove it, a blog post written by said person is not a citation that has any merit.
What the fuck? I'm saying that armed occupation is far more effective than civil disobedience. Protesting in the streets or marching on the courthouse will get your ass beaten and arrested by a swarm of riot cops, and it will immediately set public opinion against you for disrupting a critical civil service. Doing what the Malheur group did is the very reason their cause even made the news at all, let alone for so long.
Remember what came of Occupy? Of every single G20 protest? Nothing, because that shit was shut down immediately due to the overwhelming disproportionality of force. Armed occupation is the only way to get noticed and treated carefully when dealing with the government (and after being noticed, actually getting what you want is another issue altogether).
>not the sources they want, complains about how reliable they are
>people point out you can't get more reliable than what's available because of the nature of the whole situation (read: no fucking journal gives a shit, and even then, nobody's reliable anyways. If that's all the info available, take it or leave it, but don't bitch that there's not shit out there)
>HURR UHDEROIFJE NRUGHER
Fuck off. I'm sorry you're too stupid to take any and all information available and form an opinion yourself, and need to have others tell you what your opinion is
There are a lot of people at work calling for a blood bath. The loudest liberal voices in my office want to revel in killing.
I've got bags packed and no idea what to do. Guess I'll post on k and try not to feel crushed
You can't honestly expect /k/ to stand up for the 2nd amendment
The population of /k/ likes guns because they can play army man as adults instead of defending the bill of rights.
you forgot the part where THEY WERE ALREADY PROSECUTED AND SERVED TIME
double jeopardy is why there is militia there. It's illegal
They served a year in prison when the crime they plead guilty to had a mandatory minimum sentence of 5 years.
And the people arrested by the feds don't even want the militia there.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
I think that perhaps there were some steps they could have tried in between where they started, and "armed occupation," but as said, we're not them.
I'm from OR, and I bet Malheur County was freaking out about their first-ever media exposure.
>A county spokesman was quoted as saying "all these cameras. Should we... vacuum or something?"
oh boy you're right, better storm a federal wildlife refuge instead of take it to the courts or the state congress. Also, be sure you fail to let the media know that your protest has nothing to do with protesting those rulings or laws but that you want public land given to you for free.
And those pussies lost. European-shit-tier germs rekt them, they fought guns with spears and had the stupidity to trust the government's word again and again and again.
Redskins deserved to lose that land. If whitey didn't steal it, spaniards would have.
Only reason the dresden bombings were 'legal' is the attackers won. If the Axis prevailed, there would be war crimes trials over that at least...
McVeigh didn't win. Legality in the matters actually means very little. No one will get off on a "technically I'm a foreign combatant" defense. That's specifically why we have gitmo.
All these statist fucking shits on /k/ is pathetic. Guess we know what will really happen when Hillary takes office and enacts a confiscatory ban on assault weapons...you faggots will hand them over in droves and start telling everyone else we never really needed them in the first place.
The remaining protesters can wait for the armored FBI vehicles to pull up or they can submit to an inspection and identification at a checkpoint.
These guys shouldn't play chess.