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Why aren't Western militaries upgrading...
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

Thread replies: 65
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Why aren't Western militaries upgrading their MBTs in response to the Armata?
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Because no one cares
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>>28691942
Why would they? The armata is an overrated hunk of shit, painfully pushed out of Putin's shriveled rectum to make dipshit slavs worldwide go ballistic about how the US is dying because they didn't waste all their money on a reskined IFV.

At least the criticism of the f-35 made sense.

There are modernization programs in swing (as there should be) but they've been around since 2007ish.
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>>28691942
1. It's shit
2. There is zero possibility of the west facing it in battle until it starts being sold to third world countries.
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M1A3 (relatively) soon
Chally upgrade soon
Leo upgrade soon

But it's not in "response" to anything, they were planned already.
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Because it's a paper tiger that won't be fielded in any meaningful numbers.
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>>28691942
The west doesn't believe in tank vs tank warfare. Plus the Armata is still a prototype that could be absolute dog shit as far as anyone knows, and they Russians could only make a handful.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxVLL_25gog
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>>28691985
>At least the criticism of the f-35 made sense.
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>>28692065
LOL Russias are legit excited that it can do things western tanks did in the 1970s,
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Cause it is a fucking meme tank.
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>>28691942
Why is Russia only now upgrading their MBTs in response to 1980s western designs?
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KMV and Nexter have merged to develop new MBT precisely in response to T-14.
Americans are too busy with 'sensor fusion', 'information superiority' and social experiments to bother with actual warfighting.
In more broad context, tank engineering is going through the crisis of ideas on how to address armor vulnerability to modern ATGMs without sacrificing tactical mobility. Russian way out of this dead end is the unmanned turret, France/Germany will either follow the lead or come up with more advanced APS.
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>>28691942
Because the armata chassis was created for taking Estonia and Finland with no losses, but Russia can take Estonia and Finland even with T-90. So it's pointless.
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>>28692134
>>28692027
>>28692001
>1. It's shit
>>28691985
>The armata is an overrated hunk of shit

It's great to have senior defence analysts with insider knowledge here on /k/.
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>>28692369
Sensor fusion is more important than you are giving credit. If you know where everything is on a battlefield, and can direct fired to anywhere in the battlefield. You will win.
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>>28692544
>tank is only 5 tons heavier than t-90am
>is twice the size of t-90am
>tank has 1 meter of protection on all side toovarichi p-please believe us
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>>28691942
>Why aren't Western militaries upgrading their MBTs in response to the Armata?

Because our tanks already come standard with night vision.
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>>28692544
it's an anonymous image board. This is /k/. There have been legit F-35 test pilots on here, as well as mechanics. There are actually SME's on this board sometimes.
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>>28692612
Only the geekiest ones with heavy autism. And as you might know, this kind is extremely biased.
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>>28691942
Ground forces are a low priority.
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>>28691942

MREs>Armata
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>>28691942
Armata is a project from late 80th - early 90th. Let's be honest. It's just all that Soviet objects putted together. Yes, West can clean duct from Block III, MBT-2000 and Leo3 projects. But West thinks that tanks are obsolete.
>>28692047
For West tanks are anti-tank weapon. And they have now aviation for that purposes. For Russians tanks are universal instrument against anything that moves on the ground. For West aviation is universal weapon against anything.
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>>28692011
>M1A3 (relatively) soon
Lol, burger is mad again.
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>>28692724
to be fair ecp 1 is ready and has pretty much been fast tracked,ecp 2 will be ready soon behind that, and before you know it ecp 3 will be complete and the abrams may just be a3 at that point.
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>>28691985
>overrated hunk of shit
That's a really bold statement to make, considering it's (on paper) the best tank right now in all aspects.
Now big question is can they produce it in serious numbers, but you can't call it overrated hunk of shit.
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>>28692924
The only next generation design element it has is the unmanned turret. Literally all of the "new" technologies it incorporates have already been implemented on Western tanks in some form or another.
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Have you seen the state of these things? The ones they used in the Victory Day parade last year looked like they had plastic turrets.
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>>28692942
>in some form or another
Not for majority of tanks in service.
I wouldn't call T-14 revolutionary, but it's without a doubt a significant step forward.
Unmanned turret alone is a big thing.
It's the best tank design in production right now, and it's idiotic to dispute that.
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>>28692973
>best tank design in production

Nobody needs it or wants it. It is Russian so it will not work, they will build 9 then forget it ever happened.
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>>28692924
>effectively unarmored turret
>aps only works in a 60 degree arc
>transmition breaks or lights on fire randomly
>gun still fails to match western ammunition
>undermanned to the point of information overload
>autoloader is literally just the t-64's autoloader
>is worse than the t-90am in just about every metric
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What do you guys think about the whole idea of universal platforms and modules, that all military vehicles should be like Lego kit?
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>>28691942
>Why aren't Western militaries upgrading their MBTs in response to the Armata?

You can't respond to shit Vatnik
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>>28692973
It's a new build, with all the bugs and problems that implies, unproven in combat and has never even been seen outside of parades.

Impossible to say it's the 'best' at this point. Let's see how many TOWs they eat if Putin risks them in Syria before we judge anything.
Besides, if it came to a fight with any other MBT, it'd still come down to who saw who first.
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>>28692996
>universal platforms and modules

Sensible idea with added marketing bullshit language.

>all military vehicles should be like Lego kit

Dumb idea.
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>>28692996
Hardly a new idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Vehicle_Reconnaissance_%28Tracked%29
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>>28692991
If nobody wants to buy Russian tanks why..why everybody buy them then? I am talking about T-90/ T-72.

Seriously. Those are shit? Shit. Why people buy them that much?
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>>28693052
Because they're cheap.
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>>28692065
I started rading through the comments and had to stop since it was giving me a nose bleed.
Once Vatnik seemed to think that main gun stabilisation was something no one else has, its a brand new Russian innovation.
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>>28692924
Overrated hunk of shit
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>>28693061
So, maybe if that Armata tank will also be cheaper then M1A3 it will also become bestseller like T-90? It is all about money.
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>>28692973
I wouldn't say the unmanned turret is the best design ever. Best in terms of crew protection, yes (which I find ironic considering Russia's traditional view on crew "protection"). However, there's some serious tradeoffs, such as limiting the commander's field of view and therefore inhibiting situation awareness. I don't care how good its optics are, but a lot of times the mk1 eyeball is the most effective optic.

Plus, the apparent paper thin armor on the turret just makes the Armata that much easier to mission kill. How will it be combat effective if its cannon and autoloader are easy to disable?
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>>28691942
>the Armata
All 20 of them?
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>>28693104
>T-90
>bestseller

Haha, that's a good one.
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>>28693052
>nobody wants to buy Russian tanks

Nobody wants the crap new tanks. They want the crap, cheap but good old tank. They want the T-72, which they likely already own, with a few relevant upgrades. They want components for the tanks they already own and cheap, fast, reliable overhaul and repair services.

That is what the customer wants. Russia does not provide any of that, instead they go about making complete shit year after year. One export lemon after another.
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>>28691942
What's the point of spending a trillion dollars on something that can be taken out by a $300 ied
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>>28693104
yfw the abrams has outsold the t-90 by a factor of greater than 3
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Money for the M1A2 SEPv3 and Challenger LEP, 30mm guns for RV Strykers, Baltics buying CV90s/Boxers/PzH2000, Germany reactivating Leopard 2s, etc etc can all be attributed to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

But not the T-14 specifically.
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>>28693052
Because to buy American tanks you need the gold+ card and be on the "Totally not your enemy list". And even then they are much more expensive to maintain and arm. The Soviet stockpile is cheap and deep.

You can't fight a war with 10 expensive tanks like you can with 10,000 shitty upgraded tanks.
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>>28693068
There are a number of anecdotes about this that in too tired to translate.

Basically
>Russia strong!
>bring elephant from zoo
>this elephant was invented in Russia!

Russians have been claiming foreign inventions as their own for centuries.
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>>28693052
>everyone buying them
you mean india litteraly just india, and india doesn't even like their t-90ms's because they're too fucking heavy to use on indian bridges. the chinks have their own tanks. everyone else is using second hand t-72's. Despite what you think the t-90 has been out produced by huge amounts in both abrams and leaopard 2's respectively
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>>28692942
Fucking Jordan put unmanned turrets on chally 1s in 2003.

It's not a revolutionary idea.
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>>28693126
Isn't T-90 just a T-72 with belles and whistles?

>>28693229

What about Algeria?
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>>28693229
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90#Current_operators

Check out these MILITARY SUPERPOWERS.
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>>28693359
its just a variant of the T72 that got a whole new designation (used to be T72 BU)
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>>28693359
IT's a T-72 with western made upgrades.
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>>28692724
>10 years ahead of everyone
>being mad ever
>being mad that russians made something a little better than US' MBT on paper
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>>28693375
that feel when pooinloo's operate 4 times as many t90's as Russia yet they still have less than 3 times less t90's as americans have abrams
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>>28693411
I wonder when they will present 152mm version. I guess it suppose to take role of modern antitank or close artillery machine like in world of tanks
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>>28692065
why
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>>28693492
>like in world of tanks
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>>28693492
>This is what Vatniks really believe
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>>28691942
So many things to malfunction.
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>>28692996
OMNI MECHS!
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>>28693552
Explain yourself.
Thread replies: 65
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