/PSG/ -- Precision Shooting General, Vortex Fanboy Edition

>>28688052
>but they lack NVG illumination settings
Why would you be running NV behind a magnified optic instead of a clip on with a precision rig?

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>>28688078

because I already have a PVS-14, and you can ONLY run those behind your optic, since they aren't collumnated.

It's wonky, but it works--and I don't have $5k+ to drop on a clip-on to put in front.

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>>28688114

>collumnated

*collimated

>>28688114
Fair, just seems like a very circumstantial nitpick.

>>28688168

Yeah, it's a gripe for my specific system. It likely will never apply to 98% of shooters.

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This was a great budget precision rig that I'd suggest to anyone looking to get started:

Howa 1500 Targetmaster in 308 WIN

Bushnell Elite 10x40 MIL/MIL Mildot reticle.

Howa's DBM kit? If so, how does it compare to aftermarket bottom metal you've used even if on other rifles? Mag insertion, release paddle position/size, drop free, etc.

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>>28688345

The Howa DBM is ~meh. The mags are pricey, and don't feel particularly sturdy (no where near pmag strength) but they fed and functioned fine.

The release paddle is on the front of the DBM, which is a little awkward until you get used to it. You'll be knocking the mag out a lot at first.

>>28688379
Sounds like for a fresh build at least, $100 more for a simple AICS DBM like the PTG is worth considering then if nothing more than the confidence of a rear release you may be less likely to bump off hand or bracing on a stand and the plethora of AICS pattern mags (magpul included).

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>>28688428

Yeah, AICS pattern mags are far superior. The rifle came with the Howa DBM when I got it though, and I didn't feel the need to swap it.

That rifle shot amazingly, I almost regret selling it, but I definitely enjoy my Mossberg MVP LC more--and there was no reason to keep both.

Pmags in a bolt action is really neat.

One problem with AICS mags (or the pmag version at least) is that you can't load them through the mag port. Something to consider if you're going to shoot any competitions that require that in a stage.

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>>28688481

>you can't load them through the mag port

*ejection port

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>>28688498
Thats true on all AICS, I used to just single load or slap a fresh one in if I went dry (I don't shoot PRS).

Sold that rifle quite some time ago, and just shipped the Manners with the Badger to its new owner in Colorado yesterday.

Trying to decide if I want to dive into a big dollar build, or just pick up something cheap to scratch the itch.

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>>28688052
>Vortex Viper
Idk why more people don't recommend/use them, they are freaking awesome. Have one on my MK12 and and am probably getting the 1-4 for my PTR. Have a hard time wanting to go to any other brand, I'm defiantly a vortex fanboy to.
How is SWFA compared to vortex?

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>>28688580

>How is SWFA compared to vortex?

By most accounts, the glass on the SWFA has a slight edge over the Viper series (for about the same money), but I just really, REALLY don't like that weird MIL quid reticle they use.

Tree reticles are my favorite, but barring those I'd want at least a MIL hash retcle.

The Bushnell Elite G2 DMR reticle is probably my favorite general purpose reticle, but the EBR-2C is a close secong. I have that reticle in a 6-24x50 on my Mossberg MVP LC.

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>>28688580

>MI mount

Those look pretty good, the new ones with QD levers seem like a great mount.

There's not really anything to set them apart from the entrenched options though, such as LaRue and ADM (my personal favorite). They're about the same price too.

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>>28688580
I know everyone's body is different, but how do you like the steep angle grip with the full stock? I find I need a little more rake when prone if I'm wrapping my thumb (what I normally do) fingertips on the front of the grip and thumb along the side I can work with a steeper grip.

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>>28688627

I agree. The angle of the A2 grip is literally made for the length of the A2 stock.

My precision guns only use the more verticle grips when they have adjustable stocks.

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Took the Tikka T3 CTR out again. The 3 shots on the left were cold barrel/flyers, but the rest in that nice lil cluster. Can't wait to get a chance to try it at a distance of more than 100 metres.

>>28688661
>left

Right*

Fuck I'm tired

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>>28688661
T3 CTR, 20" barrel, Nikon M308 4-16x42, Lantac Dragon brake

>>28688668
Looks good, I assume the flyers were cold shooter as well as bore? Clean bore that needed to settle or fouled?

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>>28688705
Cold barrel, bore was clean, and possibly me pulling it. But the other 7 shots in that cluster show that the rifle can definitely perform.

Also, that's with factory ammo, Australian Outback 168gr Sierra MatchKings.

>>28688625
The only reason I bought it is because I got the rifle at Midwest and they had them there with the bipod, mount, and swivel mount. Really a one stop shop if you buy a black gun from their showroom and need accesories because they have everything. Pissed because the QD version came out a month later. I like it but agree, nothing different than anything else. >>28688627
To be honest, I hate this grip. Feels like I am gripping a gigantic black cock. (Small hands) I am going to put something much smaller and with much more angle because like you say, it feels weird laying down. Love the full A2 stock though, so fuckin comfy.

Is the difference between the viper and razor line really worth $1000 extra?

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Thought on the Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor for babby's first foray into precision?

>>28688735

I'm using that same brand of ammo in my Precision AR now.

Cabela's had it on sale over the holiday for $10/box and loaded with a 69 gr SMK in .223, so I got a LOT of it.

>>28688742

>I am going to put something much smaller and with much more angle because like you say.

I like the K2 grip, it's very small. I have large hands though, so it's a little cramped, but I wanted something a little more minimal on my 308, since I'll be carrying it with the sling up into hunting stands.

>>28688760

Yes, they're completely different classes of optic. The Razor line is a direct competitor with Nightforce, US Optics, etc.

You'd better have the rig, ammo, and skills to justify dropping the coin on one of them over the Viper line in my opinion.

>>28688768

That sporter contour barrel is going to heat up and start stringing your groups fast. It's great to save weight for hunting, but I'd get a heavier barrel for precision work.

The RPR has exploded in popularity for a reason, and it's based on the same action.

>>28688607
Interesting, they have lots of options but yeah their reticles are goofy. The better glass is a perk though, really have to get my hands on one to see for myself.

>>28688661
>fig 11's

This QMRC cunt again. Pig disgusting.

>>28688760
It really comes down to image resolution, the Viper turrets are repeatable, and reticles usable.

If you are finding you need better target resolution than a ~$1k scope can get you, then forking over that much or more again for the glass and coatings of the Razor line or other competing brands at that price point is your only option. Higher magnification won't really help.

>>28688780
>The RPR has exploded in popularity for a reason, and it's based on the same action.
Good to know. I was thinking of the Ruger American so I could pair it with an optic and still be under the cost of the RPR alone. Would you advise to go straight for the RPR? Keeping in mind:
>babby's first into precision

>>28688793
SSAA pls go

>>28688875
Go straight to RPR. Do not pass go. Spend the extra money on it. Get 6.5 creedmoor. Shoot 129 sst's and hit bowling balls at 1200 yards easy. Bowling line after you get really good.

>>28688875

I'd go straight for the RPR; you can always get the Ruger American in 6.5 CM later on if you want a lightweight hunting rifle.

>>28688875
From the standpoint of absolute precision, the RPR is the better investment. If it might be a dual purpose rifle and you don't mind opening up an extra moa or so after 5 rounds then the American will get you started in the game, just be prepared to buy another rifle later.

>>28688922
Put a PST 6x24 on it and have your setup in under 2500 bucks with tax and transfer and 200 rounds of ammo.

>>28688052
I like participating in your normal precision threads, but jesus Id swear you have stock in Vortex.

For the .50 we run a Nightforce.
For my tikka I run a primary arms - really like that scope for the money. Just wosh the turret clicks were a little less squishy. Tracks well though.

But that Nightforce is A+. 400+ rounds on top of an LAR big bore and it holds up just fine.

>>28688972
I'd be more disappointed if the NF failed than I am impressed that it is holding up.

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>>28688972

Nightforce took waaaaaaaaaaaay too long to get on the MRAD bandwagon, and they still don't offer a tree reticle to my knowledge.

The only one I'd get is an ATACR, but Jesus, they charge SOOO much for those.

Their glass is top notch though.

Fun Fact, Barret actually ships Bushnell Elite 10x40 optics with their 50 BMG rifles from the factory. If that $200 optic can handle the beating, a NF damn sure ought to.

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I shot my first match over the weekend. Ranges from 200 to 600 yards. Used my Savage 10FCP-SR equipped with a muzzle brake, bipod, Primary Arms 4-14x FFP shooting Freedom Munitions 168gr HPBT (capable of consistent sub MOA groups at 100 yards).

I ended up placing in the middle of 25 competitors by making 60% of my shots. Before this I had a lot of experience at 100 yards, moderate experience at 300 yards, and limited experience at 875-975 yards on 1MOA plates where I managed a couple of hits.

Positions included:
>prone with bipod
>prone from your pack
>off of shooting sticks or tripod (I used sticks and suffered because of it)
>shooting supported off the hood of a humvee

Things I need to work on:
>My dope. I was sighted in for 100 yards and dialed for 300 yards. I used holdovers for all other ranges. Worked well and helped reduce stress because I didn't need to fuck with my turrets
>Wind calls. They didn't have flags out, luckily the wind was pretty calm
>Tripod or sticks. I really need to make an adapter for my rifle so I can mount it on my tripod.

pic related

PROTIP: get involved in local matches!!

>>28689035
Most of the F1 options have Horus options now (I know, not trees perse, but similar), outside of those you are correct though unless you jump for their weird velocity reticles with completely arbitrary BDCs.

>The only one I'd get is an ATACR
They did just launch the SHV F1 4-14x50

Zerostop, side parallax, illum, available mil/mil

Sportoptics has them for $1250

>>28688922
>>28688936
>>28688937
Thanks for all the help gents, RPR in 6.5CM it is.

P.S. Scope recommendations for 1000 yds?

>>28689137
Vortex razor or PST 6-24x50.

Or razor gen 2.

>>28689137
With the shift up in price on the rifle, how much are you able to spend on the glass?

>>28689167
If you've got the money for the gen 2, of the three you listed grab it and don't look back

>>28689167
I've got a question about magnification. Say I've got a 10x scope and I'm shooting at 1000yds, the target would seem like Its 100yds away right?

>>28689250
As much as I'd like to agree with this, that is banging on diminishing returns in a big way, and as nice as the RPR is for the price, in stock form it is not really in the class of rifle where that much glass seems fitting.

>>28689171
I'm not limited in what I'm *able* to spend on glass (re:cheap bastard, pls no bully), but I'm willing to spend up to the cost of the rifle. Would love to hear a low, mid, and high range of options if there's any consensus on this sort of thing. Thanks brehs.

>>28689296

I've got one on a savage model 10 fcp-hs hs. I've also got a gen 1 on a Weatherby vanguard tr 223

>>28689375
Good for you, just seems like lipstick on a pig to me.

>>28689412
I'd argue that a higher end scope isn't cosmetic. I also paid less for each of them the next an off the shelf pst too so....

What do you all use for spotting scopes/binos if you do?

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Hey /PSG/, I need some help that hopefully you guys can help with.

I am looking to do an M40 Clone but I am a little stumped on where to get all the things I need. I have an Old Lymen scope Im going to use, but I need to know where to get a correct stock, Bull Barrel and I want to know if the newer Remingtons 700's are shit or not. Any extra info and input would be great. Thanks

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>>28689720
Steiner for Binos, Vortex for spotting scope. I also you Steiner with MSR reticles on all my precision rigs. Thinking about picking up a Khales with SKMR2 reticle though because of the tree and .2 mil subtensions.

>>28689958
Enjoy the read

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5514-bolt-action-rifles/13260983-m40-build-guide

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>>28690016
Thanks man

>>28690022
No problem. Check out this link too. It does a better job of listing the parts and where to get them.

http://forum.snipershide.info/showthread.php?t=53800

>>28690037
So do you think a modern 700 would be a good base for an M40 clone?

>>28690048
Yes, I think a modern 700 action is good to go. Just realize modern 700 actions aren't clipslotted so you won't have an exact clone.

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>>28690016
>>28690037
Huh, the M40 Had a stripper clip guide. Interesting

>>28689720

Pair of vortex diamond backs I got at a Christmas staff party. They are good enough for what I use em for.

>>28689078
Looks like you had fun. Perhaps I'll join you next time; I should've gone. I got my can in, so I'll take that next time we go. I hope to have some 175 TMKs loaded up as well.

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love my PST. got it from ADM as a package with the mount for a breddy gud deal

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>>28693923
You got your can!!! Finally. I'm excited to try it. Being from New York, I've never had the pleasure. God, I love living in an almost-free state.

Yes, you should have gone, you would have done fine. It was well worth the $15 and 40 rounds.

Saturday is supposed to be warm, if it doesn't rain... HINT HINT!

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>>28688052
I have not done much reserch but i honestly thought vortex was a low-mid tier stuff.

i was thinking about getting a Leupold VX-R 4-12x50 DX Firedot
or
Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x50mm

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Not sure if this is the right place to ask but im looking for some glass to put on my first ar-10, doubt ill be shooting past 500 yards, mostly 100-300. I was thinking about being cheap and getting a swfsa 10x40mm for like 300 bucks or maybe a vortex 1-6 strike eagle. I'm not sure what to get because most of the variable scopes I see are 2nd focal plane and everyone told me to get first focal plane.

>>28694115
10x will be a bit much for 100yds. The PA 1-6x ACSS might be an okay option; that's what I have on my AR-10... or even a PA 4-14x44 FFP, as cliche as it is to recommend it.

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Dear /psg/, a few weeks ago one of you turned me onto building bb's first long range rifle via a r700 and a magpul short action stock. My question to you is: what r700 should I pick up as the base rifle? can I just buy the action and barrel separately to cut down on costs? I've built a few AR's so I have a few tools; what additional equipment do you think would make a chassis swap easier?

>>28694255
why's it cliche? I really don't know shit about optics i just want to plink around and shoot decent groups with my ar-10 instead of these gay as fuck mbus fagpull shit sights

>>28694255
PA 4-14x44 FFP looks like a hell of a good deal for the price? holy shit. do you think that would be stupid on my rifle? and do i need mrad turrets or is moa fine?

Vortex viper pst 2.5-10x with their mount, good deal for shooting up to and maybe a bit beyond 600 yds?

>>28694263
A Tikka or a Savage.

If you're doing a build, start with a blue printed action. Don't buy a shitty Remington to just throw everything away... http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/blueprinted-short-action-combo-s/2152-extreme-remington-700-short-action-sa-blue-printed-action-bolt-fp-assy.html

>>28694340
PA 4-14 FFP is a fine scope. I've used mine out to 1000 yards. It isn't the best scope, the clarity isn't great, but it's a bargain.

>>28694389
what about the 1-6 you mentioned its not ffp right? or does that not matter

>>28694419
I didn't mention that. I'm a different guy.

My friend has a 1-6 on his AR 10. It's pretty nice.

>>28689079

Sport Optics also offers free overnight shipping on all Nightforce scopes. If you order accessories they'll put those in the overnight package, too.

>>28694419
The PA 1-6 is SFP. That being said, regardless of the scope you are looking at, FFP below 10x is not much of a selling point. 10x still has a usable wide fov in most scopes where dialing below that when milling targets isn't necessary.

>>28694115

What kind of shooting will you be doing? Because that matters a lot when it comes to reticle choice.

A Garand I got from the CMP has a 1+ muzzle reading and 2+ throat reading, is that good enough to scope or should i just buy a bolt action?

>>28694389
Outside of that action and a barrel, what else what I need? Isnt there some kind of magazine-plate thing I would need as well?

I was originally looking between a T3 and RPR, but decided that building would probably be more fun. Sorry if my questions seem a bit thick; I'm new to long range shit and I'm learning.

>>28694552
Garand throat and muzzle gauge readings aren't indicative of the capabilities of the barrel since the barrels from all the different manufacturers were different anyway. For all you know the barrel was made to those dimensions and never shot.

If you are seriously considering working with the Garand, any local smith worth their salt should be able to cast the chamber, slug the bore, and check the condition of the lands for you for not a terrible amount of money.

>>28694566
Just add rail: http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/blueprinted-short-action-combo-s/2161-ultimate-ptg-short-action-sa-blue-printed-action-combo.html

RPR is a great way to go. Ready to go out of the box.

Tikka is also awesome. Get a T3 CTR if you can. I'd probably buy that before a RPR, you get a gun with better fit and finish, the only downside is the lack of flexibility in the stock configuration.

The Tikka doesn't have a ton of aftermarket support, but it is building slowly. It doesn't really need as much work as a Remington to make it a good gun. The RPR is going to have a huge aftermarket in another year or two.

>>28694539
fucking around plinking some shit and mostly paper. nothing long range realistically 300 max.

>>28694631

Then it doesn't matter if you choose FFP or SFP. That choice can be a low priority. Situations where the FFP shines are tactical, unknown distance shooting where you'd need to use your reticle to hold for elevation and windage and you likely wouldn't be at max magnifications.

>>28694623
Thanks m8, I'll definitely look into this. I'm still somewhat undecided as to which one I'll choose. I'm still interested in being able to do a build, but the process seems much more in depth than building off stripped receiver sets. The t3 CTR has caught my eye.

>>28694631

More important is that you get a reticle that you like, that the turret adjustments match the reticle (don't get a mil-dot scope with MOA adjustments, etc) and the glass is of acceptable quality.

>>28694631
.308 is pretty much point and shoot to 300 yards, a 6" MPBR is ~250y depending on load. A clean reticle (even something like a basic duplex) with decent turrets for when you want to dial for exact impacts is all you would need.

With that as a base, what other features do you feel you may need/want?

>>28689035
Youd like to think so. Id be surprised they could hold up to it. Although barrets are a muh gentler push with their recoil absorbtion. An LAR is pretty much solid as shit. Ive seen people mess up midrange optics on 308's, usually m14 pattern since the actions are a little violent.

So I was happy. Stahp raining on my parade. :(


And Nightforce ran Mil for a while(over 10 years ago), but had to be requested. I wish I had paid extra for zero stop, but oh well.

>>28694693
You need a gunsmith to attach a barrel on a Remington action. You can change a barrel on a Savage yourself thanks to its barrel nut.

>>28694707
I would like milldot and mrad turrets I think it will be easier to learn for me since i don't know milldot/moa or milldot/mrad.

>>28694720
Not entirely true, with a vise, action wrench, barrel blocks, go/no go gauges and a reamer you can buy a pre-profiled barrel that is short chambered, install it, then finish the ream for headspace by hand.

Pretty basic hand tool count.

>>28694741

That's not something you'll need to know to shoot at those distances, but if you plan on shooting further it's easier if your reticle matches your adjustment knobs.

>>28694767
With enough tools and skills, you can do anything. That doesn't make it common place.

There are doing AK builds from flat metal too, that doesn't mean everyone can/should/wants to do it.

>>28694115
Go with the PA ffp.

I run one on my Tikka.

Its cheap, and works well.

>>28694707
>.308 is pretty much point and shoot to 300 yards
I wouldn't call 1.3mils of drop "point and shoot" at 300 yards if you are zeroed for 100 yards. That's ~13.4"... You'll completely miss most things.

>>28694770
He can still practice on a large target board with random aiming points at even 100y if he wanted to learn how to mil and dial.

>>28694741
Since the PA scopes piqued your interests they will fit the bill, nothing else will really touch their complete package of features for the price.

>>28694824
oh wow. thats a lot of drop at 300 yards. learning some terminal ballistics might be in my best interest.....
>>28694809
Yeah im really liking that scope seems cool as fuck first focal and adjustable. how is the eye relief?
>>28694836 Yeah im really liking the price range i wonder if im a retard for wanting to scope a 14.5 inch barrel with a pin'd and welded muzzle break. I've heard the POF barrels are exceptionally accurate though so i guess why not.

>>28694871
>learning some terminal ballistics might be in my best interest.....
There's nothing to learn. Download/buy a ballistics app for your phone and go to town.

>>28694618
>chamber, slug the bore, and check the condition of the lands
Is this worth doing even if the max ill be shooting is 100-200 yds, sometimes up to 400?

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>>28694897
>download a ballistic app for your phone
>mfw i have a crack dealer flipphone and have never owned a single smart phone in my 24 years of existence

feels bad man at least its another reason to join the 21st century.

>>28694937
They are available for free online too. You can just plug in your info and print out tables.

>>28694824
You only zero at 100 yards when you know you will be dialing and need that fast drop off after kissing the sightline so you are only ever dialing up. He mentioned he is just plinking, which to me means he isn't worried about popping eggs on the 300y berm cold bore.

That looks like a 16" barrel, assuming basic M80 ball he can zero 2.3" high at 100. That gives a maximum -0.6 hold under (2.6" at 125y) and 0.6 hold over (6.7" at 300y)

Impact being only 6.7" below the sightline at 300, you don't need any sort of fancy reticle to figure out those holds.

>>28694973
its 14.5 the muzzle break is pin'd and welded. I have no idea what to mount the scope with, do i get rings? or a scope mount? and what height should it be? afraid if its too low it wont work because the rails.

>>28694933
I wouldn't worry about it at those ranges, Garands aren't inherently accurate designs, and even with match barrels will be hard pressed to match the potential of a $300 hunting bolt action.

>>28695013
Does that apply to m1a's I feel like I've been told my whole life that m14's and m1a's are insanely accurate but i hear they're actually like 2.5-3moa out of box?

>>28694973
>POI over 2MOA below POA at 300yards

I don't see why you are going through the trouble of contradicting me. 2MOA low isn't "point and shoot". You might as well be shooting with your eyes closed. Unless you're shooting at human sized silhouettes, you're missing.

Of course you don't need a fancy reticle for general target shooting, mildot is fine. I wasn't implying that.

>>28695013
The POF has a raised unitized rail/receiver so you can get away with just rings. You can probably clear a 40mm objective with room to spare with 1.125" height rings and that will keep you from having to use a stock riser.

>>28695062
they don't have measurements when i go to bundle the rings, just low, medium, high, extra high. I feel like a useless cunt I literally know shit about scopes.

>>28695062
Ment for >>28695002

>>28695060
>He mentioned he is just plinking, which to me means he isn't worried about popping eggs on the 300y berm cold bore.

That is why I am contradicting you.

>>28695093
Check the manufacturer's individual listing for the rings, they should list a centerline above bore measurement.

>>28695150
Sorry, centerline above rail, not bore.

>>28695097
I'm the only person that considers hitting what you're shooting at "plinking"? You still need to hold or dial at that range. Regardless of your target, unless you're shooting at big targets. There's no point in even pulling the trigger if you're effectively shooting at a target you can't miss.

If you just want to make noise and don't care what you hit, (which is fun as fuck) shoot something like an AR where the ammo is cheaper.

2MOA low isn't point and shoot. Doing holds implies you have a basic understanding of the trajectory of your load.

You want point and shoot? 55gr .223 zeroed for 50 yards. That's point and shoot out to 200 yards and be well under 2MOA http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-50-yard-zero-for-5-56mm/

Can a nigga get some good scope rings? I need some for my rpr I'm going to be buying soon

>>28695237
>Can a nigga get some good scope rings? I need some for my rpr I'm going to be buying soon

Seekins, Badger, Nightforce are all good rings.

>>28695248
Wonderful which would be the best bang for the buck?

>>28695255

Just compare them from different retailers. You can't go wrong with these brands, though. Most importantly, they won't need to be lapped.

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>>28688702
>lantac dragon brake

why would you use the - scientifically proven - most useless and overpriced muzzle brake on the market?

>>28695237
I use the weaver six hole rings. They are good for $30/pair.

>>28695274
Sweet that was the last piece of the puzzle for the set up

Now it's down to if I want 6.5 creed or .308

>>28695331
6.5 if you reload or plan to. 308 if you just want to buy ammo and shoot it.

If this is a competition rifle, buy 6.5 anyway.

>>28695212
I dispensed my advice based on the information we have. Lets be real here, he is talking about putting one of the cheapest serviceable optics on the market onto a $2500 gas gun.

Combine that with "fucking around plinking some shit and mostly paper. nothing long range realistically 300 max."

I see the type at the range all the time, and I'm sure you have too.

With the proper zero as I mentioned he can place a target clay on the 300y berm, put the crosshairs right above it and get a hit and have a good time doing it.

Simple 6 and 12 o'clock holds that don't require stadia other than the crosshairs themselves and no dialing. That to me is point and shoot.

>>28695404
I'm .mil so reloading isn't an option

>>28695765
For just blasting .308 ball will get your jollies off, but for factory match ammo the price per round of 6.5cm and .308 are right in line with each other where the external ballistic benefit of 6.5cm may be worth considering.

>>28695802
That's what I was thinking since 6.5 bucks wind a bit better

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>>28694566

The RPR would be my choice, simply because the aftermarket and user base will be so huge in the coming years.

If you want a more conventional bolt action, I recommend the Howa 1500; they're great rifles from the factory and come with some really nice features out of the box: CHF barrel, pinned barrel, and integrated recoil lug. Throw some good glass on it, and it's off to the races. Mine was easily .5 MOA in a B&C stock.

The only downside is that swapping the barrel on it is a little more involved; you need a gun smith to cut a channel in the barrel where the pin is.

That's where Savage really shines; swapping barrel with them only requires a wrench and a set of gauges as >>28694720 pointed out.

>>28695317

Vortex Viper rings are great, they've held up to 300WM just fine for me.

If you want to save a little dosh, Burris and Weaver rings are also good.

If you want a matched pair, I think EGW makes the best ones around.

ARMS and LaRue both make QD rings (though they only guarantee ~1 MOA return to zero).

Then of course you have Nightforce, Leupold, etc.

>>28695331

I always suggest 308 to learn on, since great ammo is cheap and available. Once you get good with dialing and wind calls, re-barrel it to 6.5 CM if you want to stick with factory ammo, or 260 if you are ok with hand loading.

>>28695802
>>28695891

Both true, but I also feel like 308 is a better and more flexible hunting round, if your intended use is as a dual purpose rifle.

Myself, I use 308 and 300WM, as I rarely have the chance to shoot outside the effective range of 308 (~750 yds), and it's very hceap and easy to find ammo for. In the rare cases that I do shoot further than that, 300WM will do the job even if it costs a little more.

If I were limited to just one rifle though, it might be 6.5 CM.

For the people who recommended me the primary arms 4-14 ffp scope they didnt have 1.125 rings on their site but vortex has these

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-tactical-30mm-riflescope-ring-high

Would this clear the rail? and should i be worried about having backup sight?

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Now I have to actually practice and become a good shot.

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What are some good 1" rings for an AR? I tried using some high weaver rings but their still too low

>>28696172
looks like they are fine. You can even fit a cover on there.

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>>28688052
I'd put Leopold VX-R series in the same bracket. That being said I still have the urge to get a viper 2-10 from time to time.

>>28696191
But I have a big head and when I look through the scope the stock digs into my cheekbones because it's too low

>>28696079
Lets math this.

PA 4-14 objective outer diameter is 50.8mm with a 30mm tube. We will give ourselves some extra clearance in case you want to use scope caps, we will call that 3mm.

(50.8 +3 -30)/2 = minimum rail to tube height. Add 15mm for the centerline measurement.

26.9mm or 1.059" centerline above rail is the minimum ring height you will want to use.

So those 1.18" centerline rings will clear the objective.

To find out if BUIS will clear the occular though we need that outer diameter and PA does not list it, but we know that it is basically a rebranded Falcon Menace which has an outer occular diameter of 43mm once again we will add 3mm for covers.

23mm minimum to centerline, we know we have 1.18" (~30mm) to centerline of height with those rings which leaves us with 7mm (0.27") of space between the rail and occular that a flip up rear BUIS must be shorter than.

Your MBUS are 0.51" (~13mm) above the rail when stowed and will not fit.

>>28696214
Nominal standard AR sight height is 1.4" centerline above the rail for irons, proper ring or scope mounts will usually range between 1.4" and 1.6" depending on who you talk to or whose mount koolaid you are drinking.

Weaver 1" High rings are a 0.52" saddle height or a 1.02" height over the rail. You want to go up another half inch or so.

>>28696336
thanks a bunch man really helpful im afraid if i go any higher i wont have a good cheek weld without a riser so i might just say fuck the mbus.

>>28696409
I don't know the exact height of the POF receiver riser, but if it is anything like other brands it is either 0.46" or 0.5" so those rings you linked should put you in the sweet spot for cheekweld on an unmodified stock.

You could go taller on the rings to clear the BUIS, but you will likely then need to give yourself some more height on the stock with a riser of some sort to maintain cheek weld.

>>28696336
http://www.mil-rad.com/scope_ring_calculator

For future reference, here is a quick and dirty calculator.

>>28696459
that's fucking awesome tyvm, if i have to captcha another cactus or grass I'm going to fucking kill myself

>>28696079

I'd get the Vortex Viper line of rings, they're made much nicer, and have a pretty neat lockup.

Assuming you are using a one piece base (and you should, with a 20 MOA cant), then the low ones have worked for me up to 50mm objective lenses:

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Viper-Rings-Set-Height/dp/B00CBYGFSE

If you are using the optic on an AR pattern optic, then ADM makes a 20 MOA cant Recon mount in 30mm that I recommend.

>>28696172

I would opt for a one piece cantilevered mount, as "bridging the gap" between your rail and receiver can create a POI shift once your barrel warms up a little. The rail and receiver are going to heat up and expand at different rates.

Plenty of good 1" cantilevered mounts out there: LaRues, ADM, MI, even Burris.

>>28696200

I want to like the VXR line, but to my knowledge they are not offered in MRAD or FFP? Also, again, my preference for tree reticles is also strong, and I don't know if Leupold offers any there or not.

>>28696079
>>28697704

>If you are using the optic on an AR pattern optic, then ADM makes a 20 MOA cant Recon mount in 30mm that I recommend.

Here it is:

https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/298/

It might seem like a but much for a piece of aluminum to mount your optic, but there isn't a more optimal or seamless option on the market that I know of.

>>28696079
>>28697765
>>28697811

Sorry, that link was out of stock, here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Defense-AD-RECON-20-MOA-STD/dp/B00M34XXPU

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/958823/american-defense-recon-quick-release-extended-scope-mount-picatinny-style-20-moa-elevated-ar-15-flat-top-matte

Make sure you get the 30mm one if you're going with the PA optic.

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>>28697811
>>28697838
Having spent a couple years dialing with my ADM Recon across a couple different rifles and scopes, I can attest it is a solid choice; however I find the vertical split rings frustrating in some situations when checking what elevation I have dialed.

If you do not need the canted mount (scope has enough elevation on its own), the Delta series address the obscured elevation turret with horizontal split rings so it is easier to peek over them without breaking off of the rifle as far.

>>28698522
Delta

https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/1020/

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>>28698522
>>28698540

I wasn't even aware of the Delta series, neat.

It usually takes me a few tries to get those mounts level, but with a torque wrench and a level kit it gets pretty easy.

You just have to figure out how much to "lead" it at your torque. Put it off level a certain amount, then torque it in so that it comes up level at the correct lb/in.

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>>28698647
Swing by a local autoparts store and pick up a feeler gauge set for ~$10. The vast majority of scopes are flat bottomed on the turret and you can square it to the rail and simultaneously prevent the scope from twisting while torquing everything up.

>>28695035

To a degree it does, they are more of a nightmare to maintain than anything. Mine likes to float at 1.2 MOA.

___________________________________

Hey Van if you're lurking It's CM-2 fag here. News from the front. I finally got a pair of days off and a camera guy so I should be able to post that video. So chuckles in bound.

>>28699304
About time!

>>28699481
Yep, doesn't look like I'm going to have the luxury of an indoor range so I get to dick with wind now as well. All and all it should be interesting. With how windy it's been here in Kentucky I don't think I'll have very good odds of backing my claim up.

Side question, You ever mess with 375 cheytac ?

>>28699526
Biggest 3 calibers I've shot out of rifles are 50bmg 45-70 and 338 lapua.

The 50 was a steyr, 45 70 I've shot both a chiappa and a Winchester, and 338 I've shot a sako trg-42 and a savage 110 ba.

>>28699614
Ah , If you're looking I know where to get a TRG in .308 with a mk4 for $3,500 I've been eye balling it for a few months now but already have two rifles in .308.

>>28699643

Never was really sold on the mk4s. Heard enough rumors when I was in North Alberta about people having issues with them. I do know a guy who swore by his but I couldn't justify the money for them.

The guy (who owned the steyr and trg 42)'s wife had a trg 22. I never put anything through it but the guy shot a -.80" 5 shot group at 300 yards with it though. He loved that and kept trying to get her to give it to him lol.

>>28699679
POI shifts or something along those lines when changing magnifications? I think I've heard something about that as well.

As for the Steyr guy, i'm envious as fuck. I got to dick with the HS styer once when the range was renting it out for 100$ . ( 10 rds included.) and fell in love with it, tho I don't have enough distance around me to justify owning it... or the .375 ... any other nice things...

>>28699753
Buddy had 2 quarter sections of land, in amongst his brothers 12 or so quarters. He had all the space in the world. Made me mad jelly.

The steyr was fun to shoot, but the concussion of it really took its toll on you.

>>28699785
I didn't much notice the concussion when I was shooting... then again it was my first time behind a .50 and you know how first times go. As I remember it felt like I was firing my M1 Garand.

>1.30 km^2
Soooo jelly.

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my OCD is strong enough that when there was a way to get another ADM accessory, I simply had to do it.

>>28700281
I was reminded how much I prefer the tooless ADM adjustment for rail inconsistencies when passing my Harris with the Larue LT706 QD on it to a friend this past weekend.

His rail was slightly larger than on my KAC FF and I had to root through my range tool kit for the wrench.

>>28700331

Yeah, and all of their levers have a locking mechanism, unlike the surcharge LaRue charges for that feature.

>>28699859
He had it set up for shooting to about 1300. He wanted it out to 1600 for the summer and his brother was 100%cool.

The nicest rifle that I shot was a custom he had. Built by accuflite, who was a personal friend of his. 6.5x284 built on a sako 85 action with a McMillan stock. He had a 5.5x22 nightforce on top. Such a nice setup.

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late night bump

I own a scar 17 and I would like to put the vortex viper PST 2.5-10x on it with the vortex cantilever mount. If I want to shoot out to about 800 m should I get the standard base or the 20moa cant one?

>>28702337
The PST 2.5-10x32 FFP has enough internal elevation to get you to 800y without any cant with M118LR out of a 16". It will not however get you to 1k with dialing alone. The reticle does allow you to hold the rest if you are feeling froggy through transonic.

>>28702536
Furthest range around here is 800m. We've got one that goes out to like 1500 buts its 1.5 hours away.

Thanks for the help man, I think I'll just go with the normal one.

>>28702563
Oops, I missed the meters there, you are still good to go though.

Okay so I live almost exactly one kilometer away from the face of a mountain, what is a decent zoom level to look at animals from donkeys to coyotes in size? I'm looking into spotting scopes for nature watching.

Not necessarily a shooting question but you guys would probably be the most knowledgeable.

>>28704369
A set of decent 15x or 20x binoculars will be cheaper and have a wider field of view.

>>28704369
Depends on how much you are looking to spend, you can easily spend over $3500 on high end spotters (even nature/non-shooting oriented ones), the same can be said for binoculars.

So lets start with what you are looking to spend and go from there.

>>28698647

It's a trial-and-error process, really. Every mount is different and even vertically cut rings can induce some spin when tightening. As mentioned in this thread. The only way to ensure your reticle is properly level is using a plumb at ~100y but there are other ways sans such space requirements that will allow you to achieve a ''practical'' level. As mentioned, the one of the more popular ways (it's even recommended by Nightforce) of ensuring that the scope is mounted properly involves adjusting the scope until the flat at the bottom is parallel to the rail of the rifle. Now, if you're using a QD mount, you might run into issues if the flat of the mount itself isn't parallel to the rail it's mounted on, but that's really splitting hairs. Once you've ensured those two surfaces are parallel there are two ways to check for extreme cant errors (>3o). The first involves using a laser leveler, the kind you'd use to hang pictures. The second involves affixing a bright light to the scope itself and shining it through the objective. This will project the reticle back through the scope and it will appear on the wall. You can use a plumb to ensure the reticle is level when the rifle is level.

>>28704610

https://kahntrol.com/leveling-a-reticle/
Here is the light method

http://m14forum.com/optics/96744-easy-scope-alignment-process-lots-photos.html
Here is the process if you have a laser leveler handy.

>>28704472
If your going with binos with this much magnification you might have an issue keeping them stable. They do make tripod adapters so you can mount them, or just get a decent spotting scope.

>>28704628

Lastly, here is the scope level I use. It works in 90% of situations.
http://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/optic-accessories/mounting-tools/optic-leveler-combo-kit-prod81677.aspx

>>28704640
a spotting scope 100% needs a tripod due to smaller field of view and usually higher magnification. You can get away with 15x binoculars unsupported.

>>28704795
You can toss an angled spotting scope on a table, you bag in the field etc and make it work.

I always found 12x binos on the edge of stability for most people. The ziess and vortex reps both agreed.

lots of good info here, don't let the thread die

>>28704369

I generally try to stay around 7x if I'll be using unsupported binos.

For spotting glass, Bushnell Elite and Vortex get my vote.

I see a lot of other forums and people I've met recommending the XTR II 5-25 over the PST 6-24; Any thoughts? I don't care if I have illuminated optics, and I think xmas tree reticles are neat but not a requirement. Is the XTR II going to be much better glass than the PST?

>>28706410

I would have ranked the old XTR series as below Vortex, with their weird reticles, MOA adjustments, and lack of FFP reticles.

However, the XTR II line is a totally different beast. The glass is likely great, as most Burris glass is. However, as far as I know, they have 34mm tubes--which is going to be much larger and heavier, and require more specialized mounting equipment.

If you won't be carrying the rifle around much, then the extra weight doesn't matter, and the additional adjustment range will be appreciated (though most 30mm tubes will get you to transonic ranges and beyond on all but the most efficient cartridges).