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PAK-FA to go into production
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>Russian 5G fighter to go into serial production in 2017 – top brass

>The final primary batch of PAK-FA fighter jets is almost complete and tests will be finished in 2016, top military officials told the media. The Russian Air Force hopes to start regular production of the new 5G jets soon, with the first planes coming in 2017.

>“The eleventh T-50 aircraft is on berth and is 60-70 percent ready. This aircraft is going to be the final one in the test series,” Bondarev said, adding he is 100 percent sure the jets will pass government testing by the end of 2016.

>Bondarev said that the PAK-FA’s operational engine will be ready for testing next year and is likely to go into production in 2018. At the moment, the PAK-FA is powered with two AL-41F1 engines which enable it to fly at a supersonic cruise speed, have a 2,600 km/h top speed, and a range of 5,500 kilometers (with two drop tanks).

>The next-stage engine, currently dubbed ‘Type 30,’ is expected to have better speed and fuel economy characteristics.

Wait a second.. according to all those Amerixan shills on /k/, PAK-FA was cancelled. What happened? kek

https://www.rt.com/news/329964-pak-jet-production-russia/
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>>28669803
How many are they going to order, 20?

Lel
>>
Huh it'll be neat to see what the production version looks like.

Also, didn't they say last year production would start in 2016?
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>>28669853
Last time I checked, the initial production order was cut to just 12 for service evaluations instead of the ~50 they had planned.
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>>28669803
Where are they? Shitposting up other threads.

Advice for life: Radical and unsubstantiated claims are very likely not true.
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>>28669853
Russia's military budget is the highest since the Soviet Union. And nearly $40 billion higher than 2000.

Unless they want to admit defeat, they will buy these planes.

A lot of the PAK-FA troubles I hear about sound very similar to those that faced the 35 until recently.
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>>28669906
From what I understand it's mostly engine-related issues.

If (and that's a big if) everything works as advertised, it'll be quite an impressive plane. Problem is that they've had so many technical issues that it keeps getting delayed. Originally the PAK FA program planned to get a plane in service by 2010.
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>>28669803
ONLY WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE 5TH GEN AIRCRAFT
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>>28669803
so have they finalized the engines yet? I'm tired of seeing that exposed shit ruining a pretty nice looking plane
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>>28669949
when was the f-35 originally planned to enter service? just asking..
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>>28670029
some titanium body panels are left unpainted.
but what does that have to do with the engines?
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>>28670029
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>>28670080
it looks ugly on such a nice shaped plane
>>28670098
is this the newest unit? Looks nice
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I love these threads. Americans and Russians both getting butthurt at every comment that doesn't praise or criticize the aircraft
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>>28670051
2010 as well.
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>>28669803
>Last time oil was this low the Soviets Union collapsed without firing a shot
>"We're totally going to buy all these planes you guys!"
>>
it'll probably join all the other high tech next gen fighters they've shown off in the past 20 years: a short production run followed by something else
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I mean, how many of these do they even need? In any war against a sizeable airforce I would expect them to rely on SAMs. So do these just exist to bomb Georgian SAM sites so the 4th gen stuff can fly in unimpeded?

It's beautiful, it really is, but I think in mission terms it's probably closer to an F117 or a SEAD aircraft than an F22 competitor.
>>
>“The eleventh T-50 aircraft is on berth and is 60-70 percent ready.

Eleventh? Is this accurate? There are like no pictures of prototypes past T-50-5 aside from one unmarked one which is suspected to be T-50-6.
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>>28669803

>first production T-50 coming off the line 2017
>first Type 30 operational engine's coming off the line 2018

kek
>>
By the time this meme plane goes into production America will be on gen 6 lel
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>>28670683
Now the post the T-14 being towed. I know Finns love that one.
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>>28669949
The general rule of thumb is that it takes longer to develop engines then it does the airframe so it's not surprising.
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>>28669803
The real question is when will a scale model of the production variant appears so I can build it.
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>>28669803
>sexy
You need your vision checked.
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>>28669803
I don't think anyone with a brain ever thought it was getting cancelled entirely.

Just that it is a mistake for them to ever bother making it in its current form, or even with an upgraded engine. Its a flawed airframe design.
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>>28671567
>t. keyboard kiddie with access to wikipedia
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>>28671629
t. every aerospace company worth a damn in the last 5 decades or more
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>>28669803
desu wouldn't it be a better idea to simply develop/research the PAK-FA and 5th gen tech and buy Su-35s?
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>>28671678
What do you think the Indians (and really, the Russians too) are doing
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>>28670155
>I love these threads. Americans and Russians both getting butthurt at every comment that doesn't praise or criticize the aircraft

Yep. They all get butthurt (chinese posters too).

What's funny is that all 3 stealth fighters are based off Russian planes. F-35 is based off Yak-43 and J-20 is based off Mig-1.44. PAK-FA is based off Su-27.
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>>28671701
>F-35 is based off Yak-43

Here we go again.tiff
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>>28671678
That's what they're doing - buying a few PAK-FAs primarily for training, operational testing and very limited service, while buying (IIRC it's 50 extra?) Su-35Ss.

The PAK-FA is essentially where the F-35 was in around 2010, except that the Russians don't care about the risks involved in sending early LRIP aircraft into combat.
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>>28671694
Groovy man, gotta love em Sukhois.
sxe af senpai
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>>28671714
I liked Sukhois back in the 70s.

Kind of tired of seeing the same plane with different numbers on the end right now. Its a marginal improvement, really.
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>>28671709
Wait, are you saying it's not? Come on... they even PAID FOR IT. It's not even debatable.
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>>28671787
Thats nice.

Go and play with all your friends in the Gripen thread who are also calling you a retard
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>>28671787
see 28671003
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>>28671815
>>28671787
Shit; >>28671003
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>>28670051
Based on schedules from the 90's before the first pencil hit paper? 2010

Based on schedules from when development was underway? 2017 is when block 3F software is scheduled to be finished :^)
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>>28671787
Hate to burst your bubble vatnik, but Lockheed paid for Yak flight data.
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>>28671787
They paid for some information on how it flew. Control laws are a huge part of plane development, and considering that the Yak had a similar layout, lockheed wanted the data so they could refine the X-35's software before flight.
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>>28672227
>>28672319
>MUH DATA
Sure thing José.
>>
F-35 is what you get when you take Yak-43's geometry and you run it through supercomputer to optimize the angles for stealth.

But at least they paid for it... Chinks just stole F-35 data and made J-31. They have no shame.
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>>28672726
>MUH ROSSIYA DESIGNED EVERYTHING
Sure thing, Oleg.
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>>28669803
>russia buying 12 until 2020 when they'll reevaluate buying more

D_S
P_E
A_I
R_T
H_A
L_!
>>
>>28671787
Your info graphic is incorrect. The Yak does not have a lift fan.
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>>28669981
The PAK-FA isn't 5th gen. It's stealth is 4.5 gen levels.
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>>28672759
>Yak-43
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>>28669803
Is it just me or does the PAKFA seem to have an accelerated development cycle compared to the J-20?
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>>28674691
The J-20 is also chinese and therefore will likely be hilariously outperformed by every other gen 5 fighter.
>>
>>28674863
Top kek. At least J-20 will have decent RCS, if only really from the front.
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>>28674886
Decent RCS doesn't mean shit if you don't have the support aircraft to capitalize on it. China really lacks good ECM capabilities and the majority of the tech they do have has been either reverse engineered from the Russians, stolen, or just plain bullshit claims with no substance, like the DL-12.
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>>28674918
Sure, but J-20 is still the better aircraft.
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>>28674691
>>28674886
J-20 is just Chinese propaganda.
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>>28674918
That is what happens when you have an entirely state-controlled media and no civilian politicians who need public support or votes.

Being secretive and making outrageous propaganda claims is how a military country in peacetime ought to act.
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>>28674933
You're thinking of that Iranian shitshow. J-20 is about as substantial as PAK-FA, though less info is public.
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>>28674929
>Better aircraft

It very likely isn't and not only does China know this but also is trying desperately to make it seem like it is

>>28674955
>Canards on a stealth fighter
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>>28669803
>range of 5,500 km
Hang on a sec. Is it just me, or is that significantly more than most western competitors?
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>>28674962
>Canards on a stealth fighter

They didn't have a choice. 3-lift design was necessary to make up for their shitty engines.
>>
>>28674962
>Canards on a stealth fighter

Not this meme again
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>>28674962
>Canards on a stealth fighter
You do realize if done right it doesn't increase RCS right?
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>>28674955
That looks so goofy, that cockpit with such a huge body.
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>>28674975
That is max ferry range with fuel tanks and no weapons. It is a relevant stat as you can easily travel from airbase to another which can equip you after you land.

Real range would be ~1500km.
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>>28674918
You don't know what you're talking about. But this is 4chan, so carry on. No one will check your credentials here.
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>>28674991
>Done Right
>China

>>28674976
Exactly. They don't have a good engine to throw in this and likely never will. That sort of tech knowhow is not something you can really steal.
>>
>>28675013
>Done Right
>China
>le China is incompetent at everything meme
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>>28675054
Chicom detected, go back to whining about the Spratleys and forgetting you don't have a navy to back that claim up.
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>>28675066
Sure thing sport. I guess anyone who disagrees with you must be a filth Red Commie Chink huh?
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>>28675013
Really? Please tell me exactly what the tech involves. Single crystalline turbine blades? Full authority digital engine control? Compressor design? If you think chinese material science is behind the US by about 20 years, you would p more or less be right in most applications. If you think chinese material science is 20 years behind 1980s USSR, you would be really dumb, which is what you are.

FYI, I do this for a living, you're just a dumb kid behind a computer shitting into this cesspool called 4chan and are under the illusion that the louder you scream, the more correct you are.

Grow the fuck up, get a real education, then get a job.
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>>28675091
No, but thinking that China has magically developed a fifth generation fighter better than what the US has despite a worse aerospace industry is utterly retarded.
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>>28674863
By all indicators the J-20 will outperform the PAK-FA.
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>>28675066
>>>/pol/

I don't know why you're so ass blasted about the J-20 posts. No one has claimed it's superior to American 5th gen fighters so I'm guessing you're an angry vatnik.
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>>28675108
>PAK-FA
>Fifth Gen
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>>28675102
literally NO ONE has said that it will be better than what the US has. Point out where this has been said you fucking sperg.
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>>28674955
Chinese built quality and material manufacturing makes Russia look cutting edge in comparison.
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>>28675125
You must shop at wal mart a lot.

You have my sympathies for your rampant poverty.
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>>28675100
>FYI, I do this for a living
Yeah, and my dad works for Lockheed.

Checked btw.
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>>28675154
Try NAVSEA.

But I digress. You have the right to be as stupid and ill informed as you want. Just don't be a bitch when reality hits you in the face.
>>
>>28675102
When did I say it will be better? Literally all I said is that canards can be stealthy if done right.
>>
>>28675179
>Try Nintendo

Cool, how is Star Fox Zero?
>>
>>28671787
So what you're saying is russians are stupid enough to accidentally develop a mathematical model for radar returns and are so astronomically dumb they publish it publicly because it has 'no military usefulness'?

russia strong indeed.
>>
American propaganda is grasping at this point. CNN said that Russia has lost Syria to ISIS and is going to force Assad to exile. But RT said that's false and has no plans to have Assad resign.
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>>28675249
Speaking of propaganda, how is Russia's bombing campaign against 'ISIS' going?
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>>28675236
That's correct. At the time, it was worthless because no one can utilize it. Academic censoring isn't as strong as media censorship. You should know that. But you're probably just a dumb fuck, so you are partially excused
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>>28675256
ISIS is being pushed back slowly. Russia isn't bombing them directly, they are bombing their oil tankers to cut off their funding. That being said CNN said Russia is bombing markets, hospitals and schools exclusively which isn't the case.
>>
>>28675299
wut, cnn never said that
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>>28675308
CNN also said that Russia was the country responsible for the rapes in Germany. And that Russian spies with easy access to guns because of America's lax gun laws caused the San Bernardino shooting.
>>
>>28675249
>>28675356
>>28675299
So what you are saying is RT told you CNN is claiming these things.
>>
>>28675356
Seriously? Sauce?
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>>28675413
That's pretty much what he's saying. Man shilling used to mean something back in the day you know?
>>
>>28670098
that thing has massive fucking landing gear
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>>28675447
Most Russian craft do.
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>>28674691
The J-20's moving faster than the PAK-FA:

PAK-FA concept originates in the 1980s.
J-XX concept originates in the 1990s.

Sukhoi won a competition against a MiG and YAK in 2002.
Chengdu won a competition against Shenyang in 2008.

PAK-FA first flight = Jan 2010
J-20 first flight = Jan 2011

PAK-FA enters service 2017
J-20 enters service 2018

Today there's each about ~6 PAK-FAs and J-20s, with the J-20 having completed EMD and having it's first LRIP model flown a few weeks ago.

That's not to say one jet is better than the other, but objectively, the J-20 has taken a lot less time than the PAK-FA.
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>>28669906
>Russia's military budget is the highest since the Soviet Union. And nearly $40 billion higher than 2000.
So they have a higher budget than the USSR yet remain less powerful by orders of magnitude.

Impressive.
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>>28675502
>since and than are the same thing
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>>28675502
Inflation is a bitch
>>
>>28675464
>The J-20's moving faster than the PAK-FA

It will probably crash first too. Since shitty prototype Chinese engines.
>>
>>28675006
Alright, that makes more sense. Figuring out ranges for fighters is actually kind of a pain in the ass - there are so many variables in play. Wish there was some kind of online calculator where you could play around with loadouts and showed/altitude to see what that does to range.
>>
>>28675419
It is CNN, they considered 'mini black holes' as an explanation for the MH-70 plane downing.
>>
>>28675831
Oh God I remember that, and then they were conflating them with wormholes.
>>
>PAK-FA thread
>No Horus guy

Where did that Russiastronk shillfag go to now?
>>
>>28675933
Busy removing kebab.
>>
>>28670913
The rule of thumb is Russians haven't developed a new engine in the last thirty years.
>>
>>28675464
The J-20 is way ahead than the T-50.

One shouldn't forget that Russia has the most liberal use of the term in service. The Su-34 was officialy introduced in 2007 but was combat ready in 2014.
>>
>>28670553
>Talking out my arse. The post.
>>
>>28673951
underrated post
>>
>>28675502
Theres only a French flag up there now, clapper.
>>
>>28669803
>economy goes to shit
>push "production" back to 2023
>oil price disintegrates even more
>economy goes to shit even more
>"we are making it next year!!!!"

Seems legit. The production line is "making" the Tu-160s they want, so this is bullshit on top of bullshit.
>>
>>28676046
F-35 is "in service" since 2006
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>>28680826
No, it isn't.
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>>28670098
Am i seeing actual engine covers instead of bare Metall?
>>
>>28675963
Vor bless him
>>
>>28679747
>Implying the Ruskies aren't the ones forcing the oil price to drop.
Look it up, they're over producing to destabilise the US backed factions in the middle east, whilst propping up Assad and Iran.

All important NATO friendly nations in the middle east all have oil backed economies and destabilising the price of oil for a few years could easily force regime changes.

Russia, whilst heavily oil backed, can weather this storm due to diversified industry (natural gas, diamonds, ore, manufacturing and services) after which they will control the world oil price and will lead themselves to a place as a major economic power.

There's a reason NATO forces are resorting to backing the Kurds and "independent" rebel forces (ie. non-ISIS jihadists), they can't afford Russia gaining a stranglehold on the Middle East (such as the US held since the early 90's).

Dark times ahead.
>>
>>28675862
>>28675831
you...you are kidding right now yes? please...please say you are kidding
>>
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>>28681009
>Dark times ahead.
Bullshit. If Trump is elected, US & Russia will become best buds again.

Also, even Obongo is cooperating with them on Syria:

>Initial reports out of the Syria negotiations suggest the US is now acting as a proxy of Russia and Iran, pressuring rebels to give up.

https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/691473054258585600
>>
>>28670913

Bears are fucking awesome
>>
>>28669906
>A lot of the PAK-FA troubles I hear about sound very similar to those that faced the 35 until recently.
Except for the major and extremely important fact that the F-35 had a purpose designed 5th gen engine from the beginning, whereas the PAK-FA is going the F-14 route of installing underpowered and underperforming old engines in it for prototyping and first production runs. This is going to cost a hell of a lot and partially limit final engine configuration and capabilities to do it this way.

For a good overview of why the US never did it that way again after the F-14, do some googling on how much of a shit show procurement for that jet was, and how hammered they got both for costs and politics overseeing the program and the actual engineering challenges of trying to drop a scratch built cutting edge engine into a new but already fully frozen design airframe (not a simple upgrade). And the Russians are taking it one step further talking about adding S-ducts and nacelle RCS shaping treatments to the airframe with the engine, essentially throwing all their performance testing out the window.

It's going to be a massive shit show.
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>>28681854
>Initial reports out of the Syria negotiations suggest the US is now acting as a proxy of Russia and Iran, pressuring rebels to give up.

That makes so little fucking sense it hurts
>>
>>28682576
>Initial reports out of the Syria negotiations suggests the US is still acting as a proxy of Saudi Arabia, pressuring Assad to give up.
Better?
>>
>>28675289
>At the time, it was worthless because no one can utilize it.

Soviets goofd hard.
They could of utilize it, but they didn't even try to...

>Pyotr Ufimtsev chief scientist at the Moscow Institue of Radio Engineering published a paper in 1966 called "Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction" (in short how to calculate radar cross section of a aircraft)

>He presented his ideas to Senior Soviet aircraft desingers who were absolutely unintersted in his theories referring to it as medieval alchemy.

>9 years later that paper endead up in the hands of Shunk Works mathematician and radar specialist Denys Overholer who realised this paper was the Rosetta Stone for stealth technology and so Have Blue was born, and the the legend of the F-117 Nighthawk began.
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>>28683371
But the main issue was not the theoretical basis, but the computer science (programming and processing power) to model and implement the theory in a practical way. Even with three decades of constant development and untold supercomputing modelling hours and setup, it took until 2005 before the US had a supermanuverable tactical aircraft with excellent RCS AND performance.

Even just the RCS side of VLO aircraft is a very difficult and time consuming game of modelling and balancing RCS against performance, and RCS isn't even the most impressive thing about an aircraft like the F-35 as far as VLO features are concerned.
>>
>>28675447
I actually think those are transport gears.
But I could be wrong.

It isn't a small bird for sure.
>>
>>28675464
No. The J-20 has 11 prototypes and they recently announced LRIP for 24 planes by end 2016.

J-20 went from first flight to LRIP production in 5 years.

But the design and the aircraft tech has been 30 years in planning.
>>
>>28673932
Back on the 80's there was this meme that Soviet Russia liked to claim to have invented everything. You even see this referenced in Star Trek. Guess old habits die hard.
>>
>>28682530
F-35 did not have Low rate initial production design engine until 2011 IIRC.

Production engine won't be ready till 2017.
>>
>>28684101
Why would you even lie about something that takes literally 5 seconds with google to disprove?

PW delivered their 100th F135 back in 2013, and ALL THREE VARIANTS, the F135-PW-100, F135-PW-400 and F135-PW-600 (for the F-35A, C and B respectively) were complete and major design frozen aside from teething issue fixes back in 2011, with extant production examples of each.

Are you unable to research or just full of shit?
>>
>>28675584
The J-20 uses AL-31s though. Even if they were WS-10s there wouldn't be a problem because they've already been used for years on the J-11.
>>
>>28681348
nope they seriously considered that a valid explanation
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