I feel I'm in moderate shape. Could always improve, but not a weakling. Was thinking a good way to improve my health was to take up a fighting style. After lurking for a while, people seem to really favor grappling on the basis of getting your opponent on the ground right off the bat. But any other suggestions?
I am not a tier-0 ninja operator, so I guess take what I type with that in mind. Though at least I'm being up front about it.
I have been in a couple of real fights. Not lifetime fighter melee champ, but hey, more than zero fights in my life.
I have a little bit of background with grappling trianing. But honestly, that has gone out the window in my fights where they quickly turned very sloppy.
I think the absolute number one thing to do to prepare for a hand to hand fight is just to get strong. Lift and get big. Get stronger than anybody likely to try and start some stupid fight against you. Sure in an ideal world for your opponent, they could use some advanced leverage technique and beat you, but most likely if you ever do get in a fight it won't be against somebody who is a master of technique.
I've had somebody play around and think he could fight because he was a non-lifter who was moderately skilled in some fighting style. He tried some leverage technique on me and I was able to just push him over. It might be a dummy fighting style, but pushing down people weaker than you works.
Grappling styles are great for sport fighting, MMA is dominated by grappling styles of fighting, however, in the real world putting yourself that close to an attacker is a good way for them to break your fingers, gkuge your eyes, bite you. Also, if you opponent has friends they will just stomp your ass.
A better style would be something like boxing or kick boxing. When you see those videos of dudes knocking out two or three attackers the fighter is boxing, if he tried to take one down the other two would just stomp him. You want to keep on your feet, keep your attacker at a distance and keep the ability to flee always available.
The number one priority is to be in excellent shape, not moderate shape. Have excellent absolute strength, excellent absolute power, excellent aerobic endurance, excellent anaerobic endurance, and excellent agility and you'll win 99.99% of non competitive fights (and even most competitive fights - MMA has been rocked by an influx of excellent athletes-mediocre fighters who are dominating much more skilled but less conditioned opponents).
After that, Judo + Boxing. Judo is the best form of grappling since by it differentiates sacrificial techniques (giving up your own dominant posture/stance) from non-sacrificial, which means you can pick moves from your repertoire which won't compromise your own positioning (ie. throw with osoto otoshi and run away vs throw with uchi mata and probably go down to the floor yourself). Judo groundwork is inherently far more explosive than BJJ, and Judo practitioners are much better at what groundwork they do have to chose from than BJJ fighters. You'll know enough guard/dominant defensive positions, enough chokes and strangles, and enough pins to incapacitate someone should you end up on the floor. I'm usually floating around the 70kg mark (pretty short) and I've had plenty of successful encounters in full on, highly charged randori (sparring) against our biggest fighter (who usually fluctuates from 110kg-120kg and has about 5-6 inches on me).
Boxing is the dominant stand up style for the simple reason that kicking is ineffective and boxers throw fists better than anyone else. All you need is a really nasty jab, straight, and left hook and you're equipped to handle any stand up fight. The great footwork of boxers makes it easy to move in to grabbing range (throwing jabs and slipping on the way in) and put in a devastating throw too.
Amateur MMA fag here, highly recommend anything you'd normally see in the UFC (inb4 i'm an idiot).
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing (muay thai) and if you can find a legit place to practice it, judo.
Just remember: You want both standup fighting AND grappling. Grappling is IMO more effective, but you want both.
This is the best answer. Distance is always your friend.
You want to learn something that will put distance between you and whoever you are fighting, and that includes getting off the fucking ground.
Any submission style should only be used to get off the ground because in a real fight you wont have the luxury of having the time to choke someone out while their buddy is kicking you in the face.
>The number one priority is to be in excellent shape, not moderate shape. Have excellent absolute strength, excellent absolute power, excellent aerobic endurance, excellent anaerobic endurance, and excellent agility and you'll win 99.99% of non competitive fights (and even most competitive fights - MMA has been rocked by an influx of excellent athletes-mediocre fighters who are dominating much more skilled but less conditioned opponents).
so the opposite of you right?
Ideally you shoot the other guy at 1000 yards. If you are completely unarmed and you still have to fight, find a weapon. A knife, a bicycle lock or seat, a fucking rock... Find something. There is never an excuse to be unarmed. wear a fucking paracord bracelet and garrote a motherfucker if you have to.
Assuming you are in some ridiculous scenario where you are unarmed: Throw hammer fists, knees and elbows. Punching fucks up your hands. Bring it in close and gouge eyes, rip ears off, grab him by the nuts, go for soft squishy parts of human anatomy when you can. Learn some basic grappling techniques. The usefulness of the arm-bar cannot be overstated.
At the end of the day though, your number one goal is to convince the other guy(s) that fighting you isn't worth it. This can be accomplished any number of ways.
In hand to hand combat, style form and strength are all beaten by the one who is fighting to kill versus the one who is fighting for submission.
Tldr; killer mind set> than any other factor
This. Get mad. Get pissed. Go off the deep end. If you have gotten yourself into a serious fight, fight to win, fight to kill. Any fight where there is no reason to go that far, you wouldn't have gotten yourself into in the first place.
If you've got the time and money to dedicate to an actual martial art, probably thai kickboxing.
Otherwise, plain ol' American boxing will win you fights against multiple assailants as long as they're not armed/aren't themselves master-tier martial artists. It's also the easiest and fastest to get to basic-proficiency levels of.
Except grappling is absolutely beyond worthless if there's more than 1 guy.
Especially if you're fighting a nigger (99.9% of people who start random fights) because he'll have a freind or 12 in the audience who won't participate til you're already on the ground then kick you in the back of the head.
>Get mad. Get pissed.
How a child looks at a fight. The best fighters don't get mad.
>The best fighters don't get mad.
Most people aren't sociopathic enough to cause serious damage to another human being without getting worked up first. Anger makes normal people willing to go the extra mile in hurting someone, and it helps them overcome the pain they are experiencing along the way.
If you rely on warrior spirit to win a fight you're going to get hammered by someone who knows how to fight. You wont even be able to comprehend what's happening to you.
>Most people aren't sociopathic enough to cause serious damage to another human being without getting worked up first.
Most people don't need cues to escalate when it's already Defcon 1 for them.
Ex martialartsfag here, Ive been in more than my share of fights and technique is useful, strength is also useful. But in the end all you really need is sheer, raw, ruthlesness. Elbow someone In the throat, slam your palm into someone's ear, stomp someone's knee, anything goes
>Implying there's always a buddy.
>Implying grappling a gun/knife away from an assailant can be done with minimal grappling skills.
>Implying that an untrained thug with no grappling experience won't have his shit snapped in half in under 10 seconds considering really good MMA grapplers can do it to other MMA fighters in under 10 seconds.
>Implying that punching someone is always a one hit KO
Look I'm not a "grappling is everything" fag, but grappling is the most important thing a person could learn.
Floyd Mayweather could be picked up by some big fat prison nigger, and then get mounted and pounded to death.
Even little MMA fighters like Mighty Mouse would be able to arm bar or at the very least avoid such a situation.
If you're fighting a bigger, stronger, more skilled MMA fighter you're screwed, that's why the gun is the great equalizer, now if you're fighting Larry Vickers you're fucked.
Your ruthlessness won't matter vs another Martial Artist who is just plainly better than you. I know this is a weeaboo site, but have some dignity, this whole anime "nevergiveupu" bullshit doesn't work in real life.
No amount of ruthlessness will keep someone like Mirko Crocop from kicking your head off your shoulders, or someone like Fedor from spilling your brains into the concrete.
I fucking love all these people in here talking about how martial arts and training don't matter against some random faggot who wants to kill you.
'Cause it's not like the better trained guy can ALSO be fine with killing, right? And in that case, the better trained guy's training DEFINITELY doesn't matter :^)
>Implying that punching someone is always a one hit KO
That's why you either get strong enough that it is or good enough to throw 5 punches in the time it takes average joe to throw one. Preferably both.
Kinda hard to get any grappling done when you're blowing bubbles to figure out which way is up
So.. you say ruthlesness is useless against ruthlesness. Kay. But niether of them rely much on techniques:yea. Bruce lee could take me down with his hands behind his back, blindfolded, and underwater. But I was talking about your average street fight, but if you wanna talk top tier then fitness and speed are very nessicary. Though, they never lost that ruthlesness, they simply refined it
By the way, how is it that I discounted the usefulness of fitness or technique when I admitted to devoting a good sum of my life to it? I only meant you only need brutality in the same sense that you usually only nerd 2-3 shots in a gun. But having more never hurts
Also Fedor hits like a runaway icecream truck but he also telegraphs like one. Bruce lee wouldve had him BTFO in no seconds flat due to his speed and technique
First of all OP, i'd say your best bets for grappling are BJJ or wrestling. Judo is also good, but finding an actual good practitioner to teach you is hard to do. Most of them are snake oil salesmen.
For standup, go with boxing or some form of kickboxing (I recommend Muay Thai).
All of that being said, remember: Unless you're VERY well trained, strength and speed > skill
Not saying you shouldn't train, as you definitely should, but don't fuck with people who are significantly larger than you. The required skill to overcome their size advantage is substantial.
The thing about unarmed combat is that it is so utterly divorced from what serious professionals in security, military, law enforcement etc actually do that all of the martial arts out there are either sports or are too far up their own ass.
This is because needing hand to hand unarmed combat skills is about the rarest thing on the fucking planet unless you are a retarded teenage meathead who likes getting into brawls.
I used to do aikido from an instructor who took it seriously as a martial art, Aikido is pretty neat because it's all about synchronizing with the opponent instead of attacking but it takes quite a bit of practice to use effectively. I sympathize both with the people who want it to be practical, and with the people who want aikido to be like tai chi, only about perfection and not about effectiveness in real life. Most people taking aikido are not going to ever be in a fight but at the same time, because most people aren't taking it seriously as a self defense discipline they either believe that doing a wristlock will perfectly disable their opponent, or, observing that that's now how it works in reality (the person breaks their own wrist to get out of your hold and then beats you with their other hand while you stare at them confused, or they just power out of it) they assume the aikido isn't actually something that works because they don't realize that it's not about locking the opponent so much as taking them off balance so that you can throw them.
On the flipside, MMA type stuff is all about beating people down or beating them in protracted ground grappling, which is not what people in actual combat do, usually in actual combat one of the combatants gives up, gets shot, or gets stabbed before a knockout punch or a perfect takedown.
Basically, martial arts is full of bullshitters, nerds, athletes, and spirtualists, it's not full of badass guys that actually beat people up and know what works.
Why? Because guns.
Even if you are armed:
1. Being armed makes you MORE vulnerable to grappling by keeping your hand static.
2. it isn't actually trivial to know how to effectively bash someone with a stick or bicycle lock.
That's the thing that I do have to say sticking up for Aikido/kendo again.
Traditional Japanese martial arts give you a good grounding on how to beat people with objects, to traditional martial artists, punching to hurt someone was considered useless, why not just slit their throat?
If Mike Tyson needed many rounds before he got that KO blow against a much inferior opponents...
What makes you think you could always count on doing it when even the pros couldnt? Theres plenty videos out there of professional strikers of all sorts fighting street nobodies and the KO just doesn't come quick enough. I know it would have ended faster vs a BJJ/Judo/Sambo fighter.
There's really no feeling of helplessness like being manhandled and your limbs about to break.
Be realistic here. And KO power, a lot of it comes from weight, sure lighter guys can KO people, but most of the quick and sick KO's come from the heavyweights. AND EVEN THEN, they're not always knocking each other out.
Trained Grappler vs Untrained Grappler ends fights a lot more quickly than Trained Striker vs Untrained Striker.
Because most people have the idea to duck, block, lean back, and hold on to you when they're rocked, and any loser can always get a lucky KO blow on you.
But unless you trained grappling, you really have absolutely no idea on what to do when a trained grappler holds you, the untrained grappler is NOT going to get a lucky submission. The other guy would be like a fish out of water, a lot of squirming and each burst of energy just got him closer to his demise.
Some people are naturally hard to KO as well, your hands could break hitting someone without gloves if you hit an elbow or land wrong. Even on their skull.
But no ones joint can survive a perfectly executed arm bar, knee bar, ankle lock, kimura,.
But I do agree with you that training is necessary, and being a manlet is no excuse. Look at this 5'7 animal. I'm positive he could beat three thugs JUST using his grappling.
This is how I know you have no experience.
You don't throw punches in a vaccum, it's very very difficult for someone to throw two in the time it takes the opponent to do ANYTHING.
While you are throwing punches at them, they're going to be throwing punches of their own or trying to parry.
You're so full of shit it's hilarious.
There isn't an Aikido man in the world that lives today, or will ever live. Including all Martial Arts, that would beat any of the current MMA champions, unless he trained in every aspect of fighting himself.
That's because it is the best, grappling is the most important thing to know. Real life fights arent like Kung Fu, they're going to grab you, and if he's stronger, you're fucked if you don't know grappling.
Bruce lee could have beaten Fedor by drawing his revolver.
This is the fundamental problem with the MMA mindset.
There is no reason for anyone to have to actually get a KO or a pin on someone on the street. It absolutely helps to be the kind of person who CAN do that, but there are other things that also help which are found in traditional martial arts and not MMA, advanced footwork, randori training incorporating multiple opponents, weapons training, falling and rolling etc.
MMA fighters would destroy Aikido fighters in and out of the ring.
No fucking MCMAP, Krav Maga, Eskrima expert alive today or in the past, at least in hand to hand combat (meaning no weapons) would win a fight against any of the MMA champions today.
The Krav Maga guy would try to kick the MMA fighter in the nuts, the MMA fighter would check that weak telegraphed kick, ride the leg, pick up the "combatives expert" and slam him head first into concrete most likely paralyzing him.
Anything the "combatives cqc" expert could do, the MMA fighter can do stronger, faster, with better coordination, and with more practical, applicable, real world knowledge having came from many fights, sparring, and technique drills that can be done full speed.
Hand to hand combat doesn't mean no weapons, you're talking about unarmed combat, which in reality is exceedingly rare.
I agree that an MMA fighter would demolish a Krav Maga guy in a fair standup fight, that's because Krav Maga is a simple dumbed down version of BJJ more or less, designed to be taught to cops and soldiers.
That has nothing to do with Aikido or Eskrima though.
If an Eskrima dude came at an MMA guy with a baton or something I would bet on the bigger or more talented guy, not on who picked the correct fighting style.
If an MMA guy and an Aikido guy get in a standup fight the aikido guy has ALREADY failed at aikido, at least according to the more philosophical tradition of it's original teacher that focuses on harmony.
You know we were talking about Martial Arts and hand to hand, now you're talking about a revolver... Jesus fuck you're retarded.
And one thing that you seem to miss out on MMA... almost every single champion from MMA, comes from a Martial Art that taught all those things... ever thought about that?
Muay Thai was used for war, Judo was used for war, BJJ they teach you to throw punches to the back of the head and weapon disarms (which is illegal in MMA), Wrestling was used for war.
I'm sorry man, but this whole idea you have in your mind about fighting is a product of being lazy, youd like to think you can be a good martial artist by thinking your way into being one, but you have to act yourself into one, and MMA fighters are the embodiment of hand to hand fighters because they train many hours a day to fuck you up with what god gave them.
One could say also, that due to Fedors military training he would out shoot bruce lee.
Being a good martial artist involves not putting yourself physically into a situation where your survival depends on getting a KO punch.
Get it through your fucking skull.
You are talking about a regular stand up fair fight.
In reality it is better not to ever get in one, better to wait until someone is distracted and bash them, come from behind and stab them, use some footwork to buy enough time to draw your gun.
Thinking vs doing has nothing to do with it.
And inb4 but you can't always do that.
I realize that, that's why I already admitted that being able to knock someone the fuck out or pin them is legitimately useful. I just don't think it's a good BASIS for declaring something superior to another thing.
You're the tard.
Bruce Lee studied martial arts not fighting.
He was dedicated to developing technique, conditioning, diet, etc in a technical sense and tried to keep himself as a jack of all trades.
Of course he can't beat someone who is dedicated to one thing at that one particular thing.
Which is WHY, he carried a revolver, because he had a reputation and a lot of tards kept wanting to challenge him.
He may very well be a better shot, but I would guess lee would have the edge in general 360 degree situational awareness.
Why don't you get it through your thick skull, that an MMA fighter would also be superior in those situations? He has better foot work you idiot, he can bash people harder behind the head than you can, and in an surprise attack he can get his attacker off him, when you might not.
Being a good Martial Artist has absolutely NOTHING to do with what situations you put yourself in, that's like saying that being a good runner has to do with not putting yourself in situations where you have to outrun a tiger.
Being a Martial Artist only has to do with Martial Arts, Martial (coming from Mars the god of war) with fighting and killing. That's it, how the individual applies it, and the intelligence of the individual is completely separate subject all together. But if he can fight, than he is a good martial artist PERIOD.
Martial Arts isn't a way of life, it's a study and practice, there's no philosophy behind it, and you've been duped into believing that pseudo intellectual eastern bullshit.
Then explain to me why there have only been a couple of guys in the UFC who don't tuck their chin and fight really close like boxers?
People with good footwork, like Lyoto Machida (karate background) don't HAVE to tuck their chin.
>implying Feodr was never dedicated to developing his technique
>implying Fedor didn't do any conditioning
>implying Fedor didn't have his own diet and nutrition plan
>implying Fedor wasn't a jack of all trades (boxing, sambo, judo, bjj, muay thai, wrestling, military combatives, shooting skills)
He CAN beat Fedor by the way, but more than likely Fedor wins that encounter more times than Bruce Lee does, by a large margin.
And your right about the 360 degree situational awareness, you're right that it's all just your guess.
Look, all you jackanapes talking about how grappling is useless if there's more than one opponent...if there's more than one, then they're going to be the ones trying to tie you down, and surprise surprise, grappling martial arts also include training for how to get *out* of a grapple.
In case that wasn't simple enough: you train grappling so that even if multiple opponents, you minimize the amount of time in which the other guy takes you down to the ground while his buddies try to stomp your face in.
Yes, he does have to, you fucking idiot, and his lack of tucking in his chin, is what has caused him to get repeatedly knocked out by people who aren't even known for being good punchers.
Jon Jones fucked him up for that reason, Shogun fucked him up that reason, Yoel Romero fucked him up for that reason, Luke Rockhold fucked him up for that reason. None of those guys are considered to have good hands and good boxing, they're just brawlers with good grappling.
And in any of those instances, if it were a street fight to the death, he would have died when Shogun knocked him out, he wouldn't have lived to see his other KO's.
Not protecting your chin is asking for an explosive little niglet to knock you out and stomp on your head.
All of those things conceded, but can I at least get you to admit that there is a difference between martial arts and fighting?
Lee ultimately was working on one martial art, he learned about a lot of others in order to incorporate them, but he was focusing on the one he was developing, working on mastering one art in it's totality is what traditional martial artists do.
Let me give you an analogy. Someone with a Computer degree right out of college might be able to write a certain kind of program just as well as a professor.
But the professor knows more about the theory that goes into what makes it good, or even if they are equal in that, knows more about teaching it.
>inb4 fedor is also a martial artist.
If you aren't dedicating decades to a 1-2 martial arts you don't know them at the level of a traditional oldschool martial arts instructor.
He's literally a Judo and Sambo master who teaches people, he IS a Martial Artist as well as a fighter. He's done Martial Arts for more than a decade. He is a traditional oldschool martial arts instructor, he has achieved the rank of Master of Sambo and god knows how high level his Judo rank is.
There is a difference between martial arts and fighting, two retards can be fighting in the street without martial arts, but martial artists fight with martial arts.
On the street against random mooks the type of elusive counter heavy shit that Machida does would be a lot more practical than tucking your chin and accepting that you're gonna get hit.
Accepting you're going to get hit is part of it. Basically what you're arguing is that what Machida lost to in the ring, he won't lose to in the street? I understand there's a difference between someone like Shogun and a thug, but Machida has been caught by guys who put their head down and swing, and that can easily happen in the street.
The types of punches that rocked him, or put him to sleep, are the type of punches any explosive naturally athletic person could throw at you.
Accepting you're going to get hit is part of it, and tucking in your chin and using your arms to block the blow isn't necessarily considered getting hit by the way.
And finishing opponents quickly while being elusive is a contradiction.
Machidas elusive style would be more effective with a sword or rapier, had he lived in an era of rapier sword fighting he'd be the top dog, but in hand to hand combat you need to learn to stay in the pocket.
IF HE DID TUCK HIS CHIN IN, he wouldn't have been laid out cold four different instances by inferior strikers. Machidas striking is what brought him to the top, but his lack of defense is what has kept him from staying on the top.
That's precisely my point though.
You don't finish people on the street, this isn't some teenage gangster anime, you either kill them or you evade them.
On the street you can have a gun, you can have a knife, you can pick up something off the ground.
On those grounds, I'd say that an elusive MMA style is better for the street, particularly considering multiple opponents.
Have you BEEN in barfights?
Have oyu even seen one?
Space to maneuver not only isn't guaranteed, it isn't even likely.
When people are nuts to butts in a bar, or spilling out of one, and you get fucking swung at, dodging just means you slam into another person and still get hit.
The most straight up /k/ martial art and one that gets the most attention here is HEMA. Sadly being of a historical context it hasn't really escaped the reenactment neckbeard image of swords and shit and it does tend to be fatties first martial art but when a groups good it's GREAT and teaches sword fighting better than any other and certainly has the best range of weapons. From small knives to pole arms and these are techniques that translate well to hand to hand fighting with rifles, sticks or whatever the fuck your twisted mind welded together in your garage. The strength of HEMA is it's scope as it covers about 800 years of martial arts so I've done everything right up to Fairbairne Sykes Defendu at HEMA events (tho frankly the vast majority of that is just murder).
For more weapons there's Kali, Escrima, Arnis and Silat. Especially for knives and these have a much better unarmed fighting training that won't leave you in the lurch when your caught unarmed like any time your likely to be attacked.
All weapon fighting comes from wrestling and grappling is probably the most beneficial style of fighting to learn both in teaching you how to defend yourself but also to restrain someone gently which is an underrated skill. Ofcourse you'll also learn how to restrain someone lethally. So wrestling or Ju Jutsu, BJJ are always worth learning. These are the most pleasant and rewarding forms of sparring for fun too and will make fit and strong like no other. A few minutes wrestling will determine how fit you really are.
End of the day, in balls to the wall fighting you have to be a good striker. I do Muay Thai. I don't enjoy it. I'm not good at it but I want to train to be the worst kind of opponent I want to face and learning to be an elbow throwing roundhouse jackhammer means you can defend against one and more importantly keep your head when facing one too. You can be the best grappler in the world but it won't matter if your immediately unconscious.
List of acceptable striking arts:
List of acceptable grappling arts:
List of acceptable shooting styles:
Train in a grappling art, a striking art and learn to shoot.
If you can only do one, pure grapplers tend to beat pure strikers.
If you want to be a well-rounded and capable fighter, go with muay thai, judo and 3-gun.
Take up whatevers in your area. You're not limited to one martial art for the rest of your life so it's better to just jump in and get started. Sometimes the shittier martial arts are a good gentle way to get started anyway. So when it comes to learning a ring sport you'll at least have a little more dignity than the usual beginner the first time you spar.
This is a philosophy of the domesticated. You talk like you consider fighting equal to killing and it doesn't have to be.
There's lots of situations where gentle applications of violence can solve all sorts of problems.
I get where you're coming from and agree to an extent in an actual altercation you should fight 100% to win, quickly and with the least effort expended but what those anons were saying was that will alone won't make you a good fighter and assuming that because your opponent is an experienced martial artist means he won't commit just as much as you do is a recipe for failure.
>I don't need to learn shit I'll just do it it like fuck! That'll show em.