F-22

>>28656218
If its so great why was it destroyed by a boy in the third transformers film?

>>28656250
>transformers
>film

No use in being a tripfag if you're going to be a retard too.

>>28656266
All tripfags are retarded though

Yes it was in transformers
Yes it was a film or do you want me to call it a movie? Fuck you I did take film school courses to call it a movie.

I doubt you will get any answers here or with any credible source elsewhere. It's kinda bad to tell other people how your forces plan on destroying the top dog of US aviation.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it would involve trying to throw some shit at BVR if you can somehow pick it up and then GTFO back in range of your AA.

>>28656287
But do they actually know about the capabilities of the F-22?

>>28656218

Pray that you somehow get close enough to try for a heatseeker kill because radar-guided missiles just aren't gonna work. Either that or somehow bait it into entering an area where you have a powerful ground-based radar and a SAM launcher.

Keep in mind, both of these scenarios rely on the F-22 pilot losing all self-control.

>>28656318
How would an enemy AWACS factor into this scenario? Just curious.

>>28656310

If they do, it'd be a massive breach of intelligence and they obviously wouldn't tell anyone. So, do they know? I have no idea, but keep in mind that not even the US's allies don't know what it can really do, since it always participates in training exercises with a big lens to make his RCS bigger.

>>28656346
No, I mean do you think that they read Wikipedia and stuff, and the news sources online? I know it sounds stupid, but it seems like they would only know as much about the aircraft as we do.

Foreign countries aren't in the habit of disclosing their military tactics, so we'll have to guess. My guess is either to simply overwhelm it with numbers (massive attrition, not a good idea) or refuse to engage it unless you have strong ground based AA support and can deny it airspace. Whether denying airspace to a stealth plane is actually possible is another debate ofc.

>>28656218
By flying their combat missions when the F-22 isn't flying.

>>28656378
Most of the countries that would be scrapping with the Raptor in a future conflict can't even afford to field the attrition method.

By attacking the airfields. Seriously, F-22As do not even have shelters.

>>28656218
obviously these countries adjusted their doctrines to counter this threat.
Russia for example is upgrading their defense network. They already had some anti-stealth radars in place to counter B-2 bombers but adjustment can be made to make them effective against F-22 as well. Needless to say, they want to avoid a scenario where their fighters meet F-22s head on with no ground support.
>>28656374
They know way more than that. Russians have tested mock-ups of F-22 in anechoic chambers to get an idea how effective it is against their radars. Every bolt on F-22 has been thoroughly analyzed by their engineers.

>>28656374
>do you think that they read Wikipedia and stuff, and the news sources online?
are you fucking serious??

>>28656218

It's definitely the sexiest bitch that ever flew.

>>28657275
Slavboo detected

>>28657275
>Every bolt on F-22 has been thoroughly analyzed by their engineers.

Oh I'm sure, retard

>>28657583
from the publicly available resources, i mean. of course they did not literally disassemble a real f-22. where would they get it.

>>28657420
>admitting russian fighters can't match f-22
how is that slavaboo?

>>28657601
>from the publicly available resources, i mean

Meaning inaccurate and wholly incomplete resources, making a 'thorough' analyis a laughable idea.

>>28657618
it's called extrapolation.
keep in mind that people analyzing this stuff are aerospace engineers, not some random retards from /k/

>>28657657
>it's called extrapolation.

Known for its accuracy and reliability, especially on shit that is purposely obfusticated for exactly that reason

You're an idiot.

>>28657275
If by adjustments you mean make mobile radars x6 as big and no longer very mobile but now very visible on satellites and great targets for cruise missiles.

Finding the general location of an F-22 is one thing that can definitely be done by a platform or facility built to do that. Guiding a missile to one before you die or even at all is another problem almost entirely.

Only way a country like China or Russia could take it down with other aircraft would be if the F-22 pilot(s) make a big mistake. I mean, the difference in detection ability is going to be almost insurmountable. Take a flight of Su-27/35 and try to find the F-22. Only way would be with IR sensors, because as soon as you turn on that radar, you're gonna get detected and die before you ever detect the F-22. If you could manage to get close to it undetected then you could try and take it down with IR missiles.

Honestly, there's not much you could do other than "try to get close without it killing you".

S400

>>28657694

radar isn't as useful anymore. infrared sensors are the future. The DAS on the F-35 can detect other aircraft dozens of miles away, without the same kind of emissions as radar (which are easily detected) and without letting the enemy know you see him. IIRC there is some evidence that the DAS on the F-35 has detected large ballistic missile launches hundreds of miles away.

Honestly, the best counter to stealth aircraft might be to develop some kind of mobile IR sensor platform, like a mobile radar platform but using IR sensors.

Of course, the US being the leading stealth developers, they'll probably be the first to develop sensors to detect stealth aircraft, and once that starts to happen it won't be long before they also develop countermeasures or jammers that can spoof an IR sensor.

In 30 years when the chinks and russkies finally have active duty stealth aircraft, the US will be using more advanced IR sensors and countermeasures that will make the radar-stealth almost useless.

>>28657694
look, they are not reverse-engineering a fucking flying saucer
f-22 is advanced, but it's still an aircraft. and a 20 year old design at that. experienced engineers can guesstimate the capabilities. they do not need to know the RCS to two decimal points to begin developing counters.

>>28657782
wanted to quote
>>28657675

>>28656374
marine Intel in the 90s. That's pretty much what we did but with Jane's books and af manuals

>>28657766
> infrared sensors are the future
do not work in clouds, fog, rain. detection range is also highly dependent on target's aspect.

>>28657782
>they do not need to know the RCS to two decimal points to begin developing counters.

actually, yes.

The difference between 0.5m2 and 0.05m2 is very large.

But yeah, keep on moving those goalposts from "Every bolt on F-22 has been thoroughly analyzed" to "Guesstimation"

:^)

>>28657694
>Guiding a missile to one
why? just instruct all assets to avoid the f-22 until it leaves

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>>28657403
Yeah but this flew

>>28657864
funnny, but RCS is normally expressed in dBsm, a logarithmic scale. m^2 equivalent is for laymen

>>28656218
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano

10 million dollars buys you a Tucano.

So you make 14 tucans per F-22 and you win!

>>28657782
Are you a fucking retard? We are talking about an aircraft so advanced that the United States has often been hesitant to even field it in combat. I doubt Russia and China know jack shit about the actual capabilities of the aircraft. And two decimal points is actually a fuckton, We're talking about precision weaponry, not guesstimating the gaps between your mouth-breathing teeth.

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>>28657913
>It is currently in service with the air forces of Brazil, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Ecuador, Chile, Angola, Burkina Faso, Mauritania, Indonesia, Afghanistan, and the United States Air Force, and has been ordered by Senegal, Honduras, Lebanon, Mali and Ghana.

Afghan Air Force - 20 aircraft ordered. The first aircraft were delivered in 2016 and the last are to be in service by late 2018.[127] The first A-29 Super Tucano of the Pentagon's Light Air Support (LAS) program, destined for the Afghan Air Force, has been delivered to the US Air Force in Jacksonville, Florida by the Sierra Nevada Corporation and Embraer in September 2014.[128][129] The first eight Afghan airmen are trained in the USA to form a new Afghan fighter squadron.[130] The first four aircraft arrived in-country on the 15th of January 2016. Four more are to be delivered in 2016

>>28657902
>m^2 equivalent is for laymen

Sounds perfect for talking to you then

>>28657902
As if you're an expert.

Step 1: detect and track F-22A. This will depend on a variety of ground and air radars, potentially including low-frequency sets and sets of very high wattage. If a track can be established, even a low-resolution blob on low-freq radar, then step 2 can proceed.

Step 2: dispatch fighters. These can be scrambled or diverted from somewhere in the air. Either way they have to go emissions silent and drop low to the deck. They will approach the F-22's rough area at high speed and hope to evade the F-22's look-down capability. Preferably there are multiple pairs to send at them.

Step 3: fix and engage. The fighters will find the intruding F-22, either from detecting the raptor with their own eyes and passive sensors, or by instruction from GCI/AWACS, or by taking the risk of emitting with the radar intermittently. When the fighters are close enough, they will initiate a zoom climb to shoot the Raptor from relatively close range. Ideally the Raptor pilot is still unaware.


Probably not the only way to do it but that's the classic cold-war approach to spanking superior fighters roaming around your rear.

>>28656218
You'll be better off asking what America's countermeasures for meeting a theoretical F-22 equivalent would be. Just saying.

>>28658070
MADL and EOTS.

>>28658061
I think that's a realistic approach. Not sure about the visible identification part though. I've seen the Raptor flying twice in person against blue skies, and the damn thing isn't exactly easy to see. Your eyes sorta just want to slide over it.

Of course, I'm sure pilots will have their visors, etc.

>>28657876

Ugly as sin

Fire lots of dakka and hope you get lucky

>>28658061
>zoom climb
>no energy
>EZ pickings senpai

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>>28658183
>zoom climb
>no energy
these are not ww2 fighters

>>28658217

That webm is...cool.

>>28658217
You are at a disadvantage sure these aren't prop fighters but being lower and flying straight up is not a good thing.

>>28658183
Yes, zoom climb. Because your only goal is to close ASAP and pop missiles at him before he knows you are there. And yes, it does leave the attacker easy pickings if the Raptor survives and retaliates.

>>28658320
I'd love to see them get close enough to do that. Not to mention the missile then has to fly vertically making it easier to defeat.

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>>28656218

Those pulses coming out the back make me think of this noise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xo1h4dRyXs

>>28656333
Depends on how good of a radar it is, but if it's close enough to see Raptor someone will definitely be shooting loads of home to radar missiles at it.

>>28658576
This makes me wonder if HARMs have ever been used (intentionally) for air to air. I'm aware of the accidental air to air hits, and they seem to prove the capability.

>>28658623
If they can make anti radar munitions for air to mud how hard can it be to add some software to an AMRAAM to make it home on radar. They already have a home on jam feature.

I should add I'm no expert. Just a simple mud humper.

>>28658729
All aim-120's have HOJ(home on jam), so it could be done

>>28656218
>how are Russia and China trained to combat it?
THROW ANOTHER ENTIRE SQUADRON AT IT!
>how are Iran and North Korea trained to combat it?
THREATEN ISRAEL WITH NUKES AGAIN, HOPEFULLY THEY STOP SHOOTING ALL OUR SHITTY 60'S AND 70'S ERA PLANES DOWN EN MASSE

>>28657675

Thousands and thousands of people with and without clearance have had access to detailed CAD files from the tooling programs all across america.

There is not even a remote possibility that china and Russia haven't managed to get their hands on every bit of it.

The only thing they're missing is the materials specs, and I'm sure it wouldn't be all to difficult to dredge up

>>28658914
Meaning that they have analyzed "every nut and bolt" on the F-22A? Fuck off. If that were true, the Russians wouldn't be taking so long to put forth the T-50. You're speaking like they have the goddamn schematics.

>>28656374
>>28657386
A lot of intelligence is done now from public sources - why bother about hacking and sending spies when native Chinese aviation enthusiasts will take pictures for you? Not implying there aren't spies in China, etc or cyber espionage committed by the west, but the workload has shifted more towards the public domain.

>>28657766
>The DAS on the F-35 can detect other aircraft dozens of miles away,
>citation needed
On afterburner with night sky background maybe.

>>28658398
its just exhaust from a jet engine at either afterburner or full power.

word of the day: Shock Diamond, also called a raccoon tail in informal company when amongst aircraft maintainers at a burner run.

>>28659942
People on here think that the F-35 is the next coming of Christ.

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>>28659942

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>>28659942
>>28660020

>>28660020
>>28660035
So what is the range?

>>28658070
6th generation. That's the counter by the time there's going to be enough F-22 equivalents to matter.

>>28660099
Classified obviously, but it's been able to do this at over 800 miles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN-A6PWRFno

>>28660020
I assume the triangles are other planes, commercial flights?

>>28660172
Yep

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>>28660160
>ballistic missile

>>28660293

Yes?

>>28660293
Those are very big missiles, you realize?

>>28659836
>You're speaking like they have the goddamn schematics.

exactly captain poopdick. wings, fuselage, cockpit, whole shebang.

hard info on electronics, avionics controls, weaps become way more scarce, but it's there for the taking. It'll take easily a decade of analysis before this shit is fruitful toward the end of tactics.

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>>28656218

So when is the F-22 going to be upgraded to use the GAU-22/A?

>>28660582
>less ammo than the M61
>F-22 is only going to be using it's gun against fragile, aluminium skinned aircraft.

>>28660604

>More accurate
>More powerful
>APEX ammo

>>28660604
Think in time instead of rounds. For the size of the round, and the ROF, F-35 has plenty of ammo.

>>28660625
But why does it need to be more powerful?

If range wasn't an issue, you'd be almost as effective using something like the M134 - a screwdriver can penetrate an aircraft if you're exceptionally clumsy.

>>28660698

They went through the trouble to develop this gun and its ammunition. Why wouldn't they put it in other aircraft?

>>28660737
Because the cost of refitting nearly 200 aircraft for marginal if any gain isn't particularly worth it.

>>28660737
Because the GAU-22/A is designed for a better balance of air-to-air and air-to-ground capability - it you can fit more rounds in it than if it were a 30mm, but it penetrates armor on the ground better than a 20mm.

The F-22 isn't going to be doing strafing runs any time in the next couple of decades, so there's no point in putting that kind of gun on it.

Might as well ask why they're not putting the GAU-8 on it.