So, I know there is a strong hate for .40....but I'm here to ask why exactly? I shot my cousin's glock 27 today and loved it. I was hitting my target consistently and didn't have the snappy recoil problem that everyone seems to bring up. I also like that the round is physically bigger compared to 9mm - not that it matters. I also hear about the "wear on the gun" argument. On certain handguns you can see that the .40 is beefier making the wear relative. It's also abundant during panic times. Ok, so I'm sacrificing a round or two, but with proper shot placement, it shouldn't matter. Aside from the "shoot what is best for you" response, I just don't see why the level of hate is so high?
I have a Glock 27, it's on the right, I never got the snappy thing either. Now when someone says it I just immediately think nogunz. Also where I live you can always get ammo for it.
>and it does kill moose.
Maybe you just haven't shot a lot of guns. I have a 27 myself with an extender similar to hte one on the gun on the left. With the 3rd finger on the grip, it's a pleasure to shoot but it's too slippery otherwise.
The snappy thing refers to the high pressure impulse. It's more of a "snap" in feeling as compared to something like a .45 which feels more like a slower push or torque. It's just different feeling. Compared to 9mm recoil of the .40 is just more in general, it's not that it's bad but for a nub, it's better to learn on a 9mm because not only the cheaper ammo but the easier to handle gun will help them to not develop bad habits such as recoil anticipation or flinching.
9mm is just as effective in most situations too.
I love my Glock 27, very accurate, very good sizes for CC, very reliable, good gun.
Calling someone noguns because they are better able to differentiate or articulate the nuances of how it feels to shoot different calibers makes me think you are noguns.
I always hear the explanation that fbi, cops, etc.. are switching back to 9mm. But don't they have to use hotter loads to reach .40 power? I remember seeing a video of a 115 grain 9mm literally deflecting off a windshield, where as the base .40 load penetrated no problem. For those that complain that .40 is too expensive, well isn't +p 9mm expensive too?
>.40 is that it seems to be a solution looking for a problem
?? Do you not know the store?
>Get ass kicked because lol carrying .38specials.
>Overact, outfit bureau with 10mm handguns.
>Well shit, this is overkill
>start hand loading some light loads
>go to smith and wesson, "Hey, uh.. could you guys manufacture these
>S&W says, "Haha, okay, but if you're only putting that much powder in them, lets make the case shorter so it will fit in a 9mm frame.
>Sounds good, then maybe the women can shoot it too.
>>Overact, outfit bureau with 10mm handguns.
They didn't outfit the entire bureau with 10mm handguns. As far as I know, they conducted all the tests with a single Smith and Wesson 1006 lent by one of the agents.
Heavier rounds do better through barriers. Windshields are tougher than people give them credit for. Any round will penetrate at a 90 degree angle but if you put it to more of a shallow shot to the glass, lighter, lower energy projectiles tend to deflect more. There's one example of a cop getting pinned by a car and he emptied his whole mag of at the window and they all ricocheted off. The angle was shallow to the glass. Even when a round penetrates, there is an angle of refraction type effect that is less with heavier bullets. .45 will stay truer to it's point of aim if shot angled through glass than 9mm will. This very slight benefit is the .40's only real advantage over 9mm.
I'll admit, I do roll my eyes when I see things in 40, especially if it's something I want in a different caliber. I enjoy shooting 45 and carry one, the recoil is smooth and out of my HK's it feels like butter. I love 9mm too for capacity, cost, and low recoil.
40 will kill people just as well as the other two, but I just can't justify picking it over the two calibers I prefer shooting more and carry. As for the whole panic proof argument, thats why I bulk order ammo and have thousands of rounds in reserve. Well, that and cost.
>I was hitting my target consistently and didn't have the snappy recoil problem that everyone seems to bring up.
Everything you can do with a .40S&W handgun, you can do better with a 9mm handgun. If you can consistently hit your target with the Glock 27 while taking 2 seconds in between shots to re-acquire your sights and aim at your target, then you can do the same thing with a Glock 26 while taking 1 second in between shots. .40S&W also causes considerably more wear to handguns. I have seen police trade-in P229's in .40S&W that had frame rails so eaten and brutalized up I wouldn't have even accepted the gun for free.
I have both 9mm and .40S&W pistols and I like to shoot both calibers. My daily carry is even an HK USP 40 Compact, but I do understand the limitations of this caliber. I would choose 9mm for competitions, and my "end of the world" gun is a 9mm, not a .40S&W.
Never had any issues with my glock 23. It was actually my first handgun. Shot quite a few pistols before and since then, and the .40 (for me) is no problem to shoot.
Only complaint I had was glocks "ball in cup" sights, but that's not .40's fault.
People just need to grow a pair when shooting them if recoil impulse is the only "real" complaint other than slight price gap and meme shit.
>shooting at buddy's parents place
>friends dad showing off AR and m&p9
>have glock in the range bag, might as well break it out
>friend explains to his fudd-tier dad that ".40 is really snappy"
>hand friends dad glock 23
>shoots it twice
>"yup, I'm done haha"
>damn near flew out of his hand while firing
>I'd probably hold an airshit pistol with more authority
And it's that easy. Writing off a caliber and the entirety of its hosts through a poorly executed 2-shot experience. GG
what you need to understand is all handgun rounds suck compared to non 22lr rifle rounds.
having the best handgun round is like the winner of the special Olympics nobody gives a shit.
there was a study where 6/7 people who make it to a hospital in time survive
meanwhile people shot by rifles dont make it to the hospital
like you said shot placement is important so why not carry the gun that gives you the most chances for optimal shot placement?
if you are more comfortable with 40 do what you want its your life
i advocate carrying the gun you know you can shoot over a better gun you have no experience with but 17 chances to fuck up is better than 15
I roll my eyes when I see any gun chambered in .45 ACP that isn't a 1911 and that isn't intended to be suppressed. 9mm makes a lot of sense because modern hollow point ammo expands and penetrates very well while letting pistols have a very large capacity, and .40S&W makes a lot of sense because it performs as well or better than 9mm in soft targets, while performing better through barriers, at minor cost to capacity (1-2 rounds). .45 ACP doesn't perform better than either other caliber at anything, and to top it off, it has the worst capacity of the lot, usually anywhere from 3-5 rounds fewer capacity than a comparable 9mm.
Your comparison between 40 and 9mm is marred by the fact that 40 is very, very marginally more effective than 9mm. It is essentially a 9mm you get a round or two less of.
45 out performs 9mm in fmj loads, plus my usp has 12 rounds and can shoot 45 super which is up around full 10mm loads.
It's pretty much a caliber war thing which people already overdo, the .40 got really unlucky by not really doing anything significantly better than modern 9mm but being a bit more expensive.
There's nothing spectacular about the cartridge, but there's nothing wrong with it either, people who shit on it are just shitposting.
I already have a 9mm and am interested in a larger rimless cartridge caliber because freedom, should I just jump up to 10mm? Seems like I should in order to really differentiate my collection.
>Maybe you just haven't shot a lot of guns
I have these, 2 10mm, 2 .40 S&W, a .45 acp. a 357.mag, a Governor, and not pictured a Ruger Alaskan. That's just the pistols.
Like I said, in soft targets, there isn't much measurable difference. Both make holes in people's bodies, and either will get the job done in normal pistol defensive shooting situations. However, saying that .40S&W is "very, very marginally more effective than 9mm" in terms of barrier penetration would be a blatant mischaracterization. The .40S&W has a 30-50% increase in momentum over 9mm, and that counts for a lot in barrier penetration.
>45 out performs 9mm in fmj loads,
This isn't a strong argument because normal defensive pistol shooting would utilize hollow points.
>plus my usp has 12 rounds and can shoot 45 super which is up around full 10mm loads.
So, three rounds less than an already low capacity 9mm USP, and good luck practicing with .45 super. That shit's almost $1 per round.
Then slow the fuck down when shooting 9mm. I'm willing to bet your problem is that due to the gun having less recoil and coming back on target quicker you feel like you have to shoot quicker and aren't actually taking the time to line up your shots like you should.
>The 9mm literally defected off the windshield.
Yeah, sure it will. Strangely enough the .380 ammunition I've fired into windshields had no problem penetrating, even with my light handloads.
It matters in my situation. I do not like shooting .40 when I find it far, far more enjoyable to spend a range day with my .45's. I do not like paying 40 prices when I could pay 9mm prices. My USP45T is my field pistol, so it is commonly loaded with fmj, plus 45 has the most reliable JHP expansion anyways due to surface area (like everything though, that varies immensely. Brand has tons to do with it.)
As for CC, self defense shootings go around 3 tounds, tops. I carry 17 rounds with my USP45C, 8+1 and a spare mag. I do not feel underarms at all.
I'll chose the caliber that I enjoy shooting and will actually go to the range to use and train with. Also, I'm saving for babby's first suppressor, 45 is great for that.
In my original post, I wasn't even knocking .40. I simply said in don't have a place for it in my personal arsenal.
>self defense shootings go around 3 tounds, tops
Wrong, the average is 3 rounds, you're going to screw yourself over if you just plan on averages.
How can you complain about the cost of .40S&W when you shoot .45 ACP? Even on sale...
9mm = $10/box
.40 = $12/box
.45 = $15/box
Nobody is saying that .45 doesn't expand, but it tends not to perform as well as .40S&W, and capacity is always the least in this caliber. You carry 17 rounds of .45 across two magazines? I can carry 15 rounds of 9mm in the same size gun and have all that ammo on tap, without the need for a mag change, or the inconvenience of carrying a large extra magazine in your pocket every day.
Not him, but there have been about a million police shootings where the pig unloaded multiple magazines into the perp and many shots hit center of mass and some hit the head, and the perp lived. With .45 too.
I pay 13.99 shipped typically, it's not bad at all IMO. As for capacity, it's great but I don't think of it as even a top 3 priority. Whatever you shoot best/will practice with, concealability, and reliability are all more important.
I swear, it's like people think it self defense was impossible or even difficult before the advent of the wonder 9. Pic related
>9mm is at the absolute lowest I've been able to find $15 per box up here
Being a /k/anuck is suffering.
So, when you said >>28589969
>I do not like paying 40 prices when I could pay 9mm prices
and apparently you were referring to .45, were you conscious of the fact that you were just talking out of your ass?
Glock 27's are amazing guns. Little modding needed to make it a 9mm or 357SIG. Drop in a wolf barrel and maybe change the mags.
Fuck anyone who hates 40. 9mm is a bitch round.
It's because the .40S&W is a useless half way point between 9mm and 10mm. It is a shortened 10mm that gained as much popularity as it has because it doesn't recoil "as much" as 10mm, when in reality, recoil kinetics has as much to do with the design of the gun than the difference between the .40 and 10. Not only is 9mm less expensive, you won't find yourself in situations where you'll desire what difference there is between 9 and .40, but I can tell you unless you know what differences you -need- to have at your disposal will be more than compensated for by the ammo cost difference.
>didn't have the snappy recoil problem that everyone seems to bring up
because 95% of people on /k/ are bitched wristed weebs
.40 is like the .300blk of handguns - great alternative to the more common 9x19 with a little more power, doesn't require a larger frame, and you only find poorfags hating on it
You lose a little magazine capacity for negligible gains in terminal ballistics. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with .40.
The debate is just Internet trolls finding shit to argue about.
That's how much it is around here too.
It's more like a box of 50 target rounds:
9mm = $15
.40 = $20
.45 = $23
If I shoot 100 rounds at the range which is about average for myself, that's $10 less a visit.
Go twice a month that's $20 a month or $240 a year difference. If someone doesn't have a lot of extra money, maybe that's meaningful enough to be a consideration.
>he doesn't reload
I shoot 9 like water
.40 too so I can amass some brass, but I only buy federal which is $20/50 of 9 and maybe $23/50 of .40. Not a huge difference
sucks but if you aren't buying bulk federal from walmall, you're getting played. Shit is practically steel case prices
I like 9mm because it's cheaper, easier to shoot & control, and very much dakka in the gun when concealing.
Also why do so many gangsters use the .40? I understand the .38 usage from old guns, but not the .40.
>Also why do so many gangsters use the .40
They don't, they just call it that
Thugs use, typically, they use 9mm FMJ because it's cheap. They call everything a Glock .40 because 40 is like some magical number to them, it's what their malt liquor comes in.
Sipping on muh fowty while I Blast him wif muh fowty cause he tripping on muh showty.
He got duh glock, you got duh cock, yeah boyeeee
Number one on the nig nog top 100 in three weeks.
It would be a very nice addition to your collection. Do it.
Do you have any idea how frequently LEO's do have to shoot through glass in general? Its a Standard Training procedure.