What is /k/'s opinion on the four service academies? In particular how do you feel about calls to reform them given that they cost more per student compared to ROTC?
Armyfag here, so can only speak for West Point, but every single officer I've had from there has been a huge douchebag who thought he was God's gift to the Army.
Most refuse to listen to their NCOs because they think that since they're officers and went to WP they're better than everyone else, which leads to no one liking them, and they don't realize that PFCs have more experience than they do.
Basically if you went to one of them, the chances of you being an absolute faggot are extremely high and as soon as you tell someone that's where you went, all respect for you is instantly gone. It's better to lie and say you did ROTC at your local university than admit you went to WP to your platoon.
Cadet in the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets here.
The service academies suck senpai, I know people at all of them and all of them suck. Hazing (the source of military college greatness) has basically been wiped out at all of them but is alive and well here in Texas. Plus our shooting team is better. And the girls at A&M are waaaaay better than anything you're gonna find at those other shitholes.
My third PL was a WP guy. We got him about 8 months into a deployment and literally the first thing he did was get separated from all his gear he wasn't wearing at the time. Our platoon pretty much had to clothe and shelter his ass until someone was able to locate all his shit and get it dropped off with the fuel resupply two weeks later.
First thing he ever did on a patrol was to flip the fuck out because we got reflections that enemy had eyes on us. Guy was seriously behind the curve in a lot of ways.
It's like that in the Air Force too, anon.
>Be E5 at NCO call
>new OPS officer introduces himself
>Every sentence he reminds us how he is an AFA graduate and former Aircrew
>Be at Regional Training Center (chair force pre-deployment training)
>Same captain attempts to load a M249 like a closed bolt rifle
>Shocked from the slam fire he created, he yanks his hand back, hits the reciprocating cocking handle as he did not lock it forward and starts crying
>Tells everyone he had an allergic reaction
Our platoon was in the process of relieving dudes at another FOB and the PL put all his shit in a connex that was full of our B-bags. The connex was never intended to go to our new location and was literally filled with all our non-essential equipment that we didn't feel like we'd need for at least 3 months.
VT here: our shooting team is secret now and you can't find it unless you're a cadet, but its sweet. At Tech or A&M you get the senior military college experience coupled with a real school and a major that actually means something if you look for a job in the real world. Plus you get garunteed active duty.
VT was the best four years of my life, and it made me who I am. I have heard great things about Texas A&M too. I had applied to West Point, I got in but my congressman pulled my nomination for a black female and said "hey I promise ill give you the nomination next year" so I went to VT instead. Best decision I could have made. The academy guys have a stigma attached to them now, and I look highspeed as fuck because noone knows VT is a senior military college
Is it true that the AF academy is controlled by a bunch of zealous Christian evangelists that force cadets to attend church services and pray daily under threat of punishment?
My parents pushed me into doing ROTC at my university rather than trying for one of the academies based on some horror stories my cousin had about it.
>tfw NROTC at Ole Miss
>tfw quite possibly the smallest unit in the US
>tfw best 4 years of my life
>tfw haven't learned anything though
I'm gonna be completely fucked if I can make it past nuke school. Plan of listening to my chief and not acting like a stuck up faggot.
I kinda wished NROTC prepared me more than it did.
wtf is our tax money going to then...is the "incompetent West Point douche" a stereotype or I've got to believe at least a few competent people went through
>mfw applying for OCS
Reports of sexual assault at the three U.S. service academies jumped 55 percent in academic year 2014-2015 while sexual harassment complaints also rose, according to a new Defense Department report
The Air Force Academy, which consistently has had the highest number of reports since 2011, saw the largest increase from the previous year, with 49 reports, including 27 unrestricted and 22 restricted, almost double he 25 reports in school year 2013-2014.
West Point cadets in 2014-2015 filed 17 reports, including 15 unrestricted and two restricted, and Naval Academy midshipmen filed 25 reports, nearly equally split between unrestricted and restricted.
Senior military colleges are for ultra wanna-be West Pointers. If you thought fucking west point officers were bad (they're fucking awful most of the time) the SMC guys from A&M and the Citadel and all that shit are worse most of the time. They are the people that were too stupid or not fit enough to get into west point, but then they think that their gay ass school is better than west point.
Go to a good school in a decent area with a good ROTC program. That way you can have a ton of fun and a normal college experience and still get a worthwhile education and a commission. You will learn to not be a socially awkward asshole who can actually talk to people about things other than the military and you won't be kicked out of the military when you go to BOLC because you don't know how to restrain yourself in real life because your entire college experience was regimented and you didn't have unrestricted access to alcohol.
Seriously, the most important point of going to college is building relationships and learning invaluable social skills that allow you to actually interact and empathize with the people that you will have in your platoon, not to mention the people that you will interact with in real life after you are done with your commitment. And if you do decide you want to be ultra hardo and go to WP or something, just don't go to fucking A&M or VMI and be a fucking wannabe autist.
Going to westpoint means you've got active duty guaranteed regardless if you graduate top or bottom of your class.
Senior military colleges from my understanding give you an almost guarantee of active duty, but it requires the head honcho to give you the thumbs up if you don't fall within a certain ranking.
According to wikipedia, it says everyone gets a guarantee, but according to people at clc last summer it isn't.
This. I'm a little socially awkward, but I can fake it. Hell, I've been faking it for so long I've actually become less awkward. But I've met a few academy guys during my summer cruises (1/C cruise in Oceana) and god damn they made me feel like a social butterfly.
If you are not completely retarded then you can get AD going through any other ROTC program. And if you can't hack it then you probably don't deserve it in the first place. Going somewhere solely because you're guaranteed and AD spot means you're not confident enough in your own abilities and you will get people killed because you can't swallow your own ego and prove yourself against all the other cadets competing for AD.
Go to a normal University and bust your butt in ROTC. You'll get a better personality than going to the Academies.
This guy is right. Academy graduates are pompous assholes who act like they know everything but are dangerously ignorant.
A friend of mine in Navy ROTC at a major University in the early 2000s was the Navy's first pic for Jets over any Naval Academy candidate. He flies F18s now for a living. He's not a douchebag know-it-all either.
I have no idea what you guys are talking about but from what I hear from people, people who go to VMI tend to be a lot better then people who went through WP/Universities. No Idea about any other SMC.
However I only hear this from old people, people who went to VMI, and also I live in Virginia. I am also going to VMI which is kinda adding into this.
>trying to become pilot
>applying to USNA
>if I don't get in ill probably do AFROTC, looking at ERAU but muh $$ and muh shitty college experience
I just feel that ROTC leaves too much shit to chance.
What's pilot selection like for NROTC? I'm honesty not too informed about everything you need to complete.
I enlisted so I can go to college for free, I've been hazed enough for one lifetime and now that im a tad bit older I know that only a weak person would allow themselves to be hazed in the name of a unit, fraternity or whatever.
>In particular how do you feel about calls to reform them given that they cost more per student compared to ROTC?
I think they should be 100% merit based.
While that does come with some problems sorting out kids who "look" like better candidates because with money comes greater access to academic success and extra curriculars, I would prefer that tuition not be a barrier to getting the best possible leaders coming out of the service academies.
Vt corps kids are dween. I went there for years.
Also I got denied from a service academy because I guess they didn't want yet another service academy applicant who was also a straight white Christian male from northern Virginia of a stable financial background. I bet you have a similar background. I have no regrets, All the better for it.
Hearing privelaged white boys like you get antsy about affirmative action makes my winkie throb.
Why doesn't everyone have to take a class called
Don't be an Arrogant Douche 101
And address all the bad stereotypes off the bat so they at least recognize what everyone thinks of them. Keep em humble
I did an officer candidate interview with my commanding officer. A 1 on 1 with the guy grilled me about why I wanted to go E to O. He is an academy graduate. In his opinion most E to O's were completely fucking failures and he was trying to tell me how hard it is going to go from NCO to LT, like it's some sort of miraculous step up.
>MFW he told me that
>is the "incompetent West Point douche" a stereotype
Sort of. There's at least a kernel of truth.
>wtf is our tax money going to then...
Well it's an inherent side effect of the process.
Take a 17-19 year old who has very likely never even been in a fist fight, tell them for four years that they are the best and brightest the entire country has to offer, pump them full of Hooah moto bullshit, and then continuously pound it into them that they will be responsible for the lives of everyone under them and that if they fuck up even a little bit it could get real people killed.
So you get an arrogant, pompous dick who is then super paranoid about every single discarded can on the side of the road or every single indig who even glances in your general direction.
It may not be supported by the administration and staff there but the environment of evangelism is very much there.
My aforementioned family member was the target of conversion attempts and later harassment because he was [spoiler] Jewish [/spoiler]
Although it doesn't get lumped I'm with the others I went to the United states merchant marine academy which offers the option of commissioning into any of the armed services (after am OCS style training) and I am currently active duty and will answer any questions about the school.
I don't know about other service academies but West Point routinely places among the top 10 colleges in the US and by extension the world. The quality of the education provided is excellent and the requirements to attend are stringent.
It's easy to understand why someone would leave there arrogant as it is quite an achievement. This established, that achievement alone does not a competent leader make just like going to Princeton, Harvard, or Yale doesn't suddenly make you a competent leader.
>West Point routinely places among the top 10 colleges i
>The quality of the education provided is excellent
Being permanently sleep-deprived and going through a curriculum that leads to nowhere generally doesn't constitute a quality education.
>the requirements to attend are stringent.
>you need to be politically connected and know the right people
>what's /k/s opinion about OCS graduates
Hit or miss.
Enlisting with a four year degree to go straight to OCS (get pinned E5 when you finish basic) happens.
And so does prior enlisted going to OCS.
And no matter what someone tells you, "mustangs" (prior enlisted officers) can be just as big shit bags as regular officers. It's all down to the individual.
I know of a kid from there who went to usna. I can think of 3 people from my high school, dominion, who ended up at service academies, I'm sure that number has grown in the years since my graduation.
It's #22 *this* year, last year it was #6. Additionally, for 2009, 2010, and 2011 it was ranked #1 by the very source you cited.
Forbes put it in the #8 or #9 spot this year, can't remember which
Despite it's lackluster performance overall it's still excelling in other categories: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/united-states-military-academy-197036/overall-rankings
>Being permanently sleep-deprived
Not a unique problem for any college.
>going through a curriculum that leads to nowhere
Not a unique problem either, the amount of college grads sitting in unemployment or working menial jobs such as retail and food service is staggering.
AFROTC trash here, let me tell you how difficult my day has been in the past 3 years of AD:
>work hours 0730-1630
>wake up at 0900
>get to work at 1000
>go to lunch at 1100
>check my email at 1300
>go to my car and shitpost on /pol/ for 3 hrs
basically that for 3 years, only difference is that when I was doing a short overseas, I didn't even have to show up to work most of the time. Leadership thought that I would always get in the way, so they would not even check up on me unless there was some sort of recall or a command mandated formation (happened twice) or someone died.
The key to being such an awesome officer is that you need to paint yourself as a massive fuck up, that way no one will trust you to do anything and since they can't kick you out, they would rather ignore you and leave you alone than to ask you to refill paper on the officer printer, because you may eat paint chips on the way there.
Harvard was #1 in 2009-2011 in US News/World Report rankings. In fact, West Point didn't even make the list in 2010. And probably not 2009 or 2011 either.
I like how the category here is, "At schools where doctorate not offered" (which excludes pretty much every school worth anything), or in the category of "liberal arts colleges", where #4 is "New College of Florida, Sarasota, FL"
>Not a unique problem for any college.
Sleep deprivation is mandated in West Point, etc. In other schools, it's a personal choice. There's a difference.
>Not a unique problem either, the amount of college grads sitting in unemployment or working menial jobs such as retail and food service is staggering.
No, this would be a different problem. The curriculum at the military academies has no goal, it is a random selection of subjects accumulated over the years by people who felt that an intro 101 course in this subject might matter to officers. You end up with people who have a four month intro on a bunch of subjects, and masters of none.
You can have a Harvard PhD in classics and be a NEET, but no one will really question the quality of that classics education.
What's your AFSC senpai?
>TFW Commissioning in May
> that patrol cap
I really am sorry for some of you "officers". The leadership, training, and role model that a Drill Sergeant provides really is invaluable.
Btw, put a little curve in that cap. Maybe you wont look so much like a NEET.
Hey me too, but NROTC.
Any other mids get nuke drafted? Heres to the next month of relearning all the physics and calculus that I forgot because I'm a CompSci major and I convinced myself I would never need to use physics again.
Just fuck my shit up.
If you're at all a half decent officer, your commissioning source doesn't matter because the shit you learn via OJT once you're actually on active duty is ten times more valuable than anything you learned in the classroom.
The problem comes when you think that you know everything because you went to XYZ school, you don't listen to your NCOs and junior enlisted. Therefore, no OJT and you're probably a big bag of shit.
>Go to a normal University and bust your butt in ROTC. You'll get a better personality than going to the Academies.
This, a fucking million times this. Go to a regular school, have relationships and friends and freedom and become a normal fucking human being.
>OCS grad bias
not sure what dween means, but you sound like a trolling faggot if you're being pro-affirmative action. I bet you're all for putting women in infantry units too.
Did JROTC in high school and loved every second of it. Now I am kinda stuck where I want to go. Do I continue to ROTC in a normal college and commission there? Or do I go for West Point because it may look better outside the military?
My aunt had a commission to West Point, but went to work in the White House and later California instead. She still knows some people and said she'd be able to push me in especially with my grades and stuff.
My SAI in high school knows all of the ROTC heads in my state and could put a word for me to get a leg up for scholarships.
I need people with more experience with both to help with this.
because they don't shut the FUCK up about how they're better than every other officer because they enlisted first.
does it give you some perspective? sure.
but i know dirtbags and allstars from every commissioning source. including mustangs.
Seeing how all of our chiefs of staff and generals/admirals are all service academy graduates, does that mean our military leadership is staffed by the most pompous, arrogant, and incompetent people in the military?!
Army Officer here ---- first post, best post. 98% accurate
However, I had a buddy go to the AF Academy and he came out normal. So it might just be West Point that fucks people up.
I went ROTC, and although its full of retards, overall its the best method to become an officer. Unless of course you enlist for like 10 years and then do green to gold, but even then, a lot of the people that do that are too burned out to be effective officers.
Want to be a faggot who leeches off his aunty (and keep in mind you're not guaranteed anything) or do you want to actually put some effort in yourself and become a better officer and person
so general consensus is that academy is shit, but which is better doing ROTC or OCS? i just started uni and i was interested in doing ROTC but my cousin who is enlisted says OCS officers are better cause they werent babied in OCS compared to ROTC officers and that theres way more bullshit you have to do in ROTC despite OCS being somewhat tougher
OCS grads are ghosts who the unit never sees. They're just sitting in the office sipping coffee until contract is over and enjoying the automatic promotion system. People who go to OCS are just going to bail after they make 0-3 at the end of their contract and pick up a GS-12 job. Military is just a stepping stone for them to get quick management experience on their resume.
I went to highschool with with someone who is now going to Westpoint... Holy shit he was (and probably still is) a douche bag
When no one was watching he was an okay person, but he definitely liked to try and showboat
ITT: Pic related
>Guy from North Mexican Dog Cult
Texas A&M is better than West Point!
>Korean Shooting Gallery
VTech is better than West Point yo!
>I went to ROTC because my pearl-clutching middle-class parents heard there might be Christians at USAFA
Oh yeah, ROTC > Air Force Academy!
>Get hazed by a wannabe Confederate with no teeth
Hurrr, VMI is totally better than West Point guys!
W-well I didn't want to be part of your stupid club anyway!
>Guys I went to ROTC
ROTC better than USMA!
Are you seeing a pattern here? It's almost as though people think that whatever they, personally, did was not only practically but morally correct. Everyone who did something different is either a mouthbreathing retard or an arrogant douche who thinks he's hot shit.
This is exactly analogous to how everyone who kills me in CS:GO is hacker, and everyone I kill is a fucking scrub.
>Thinks being an E-5 is like being an LT.
Hint: it isn't. Being a captain is even less like being an NCO, and by the time you hit Major you'll realize that you haven't seen an NCO in months.
>My cousin says I should...
Serious question: how many officers has PV2 Anonymous Cousin observed continuously for more than five minutes? Having answered that question, how much do you value his opinion in directing your actions?
Former VT Cadet here, dropped out because the Corps of Cadets pushes me too much credit hours and I can't stand it
>trying to double major and a foreign language minor
>Taking 18 credit hours right now
>Corps + ROTC = Extra 5-6 credit hours per semester
I don't want to stay for 5-6 years for this, and the citizen-leader track from the Corps is just a waste, because you receive the same shit from ROTC
OCS would be the option for me
He's an infantry marine corporal I think 5 years now (just got promoted so he just sowed his blood stripe on) and as much as he is family I like to consider him also a good friend, so I value his word especially since he's actually in the military and I'm not.
In Army and Air Force medical units, captain is the entry-level rank for those possessing a medical degree, or a doctorate in a healthcare profession (including nurse anesthetists, pharmacists, optometrists, veterinarians, physician assistants, and dentists, among others).
Oh, right. Makes sense. So technically a guy could as a civilian get a doctor degree or healthcare profession. Join the air force and jump straight down to a that high officer rank?
But they wouldn't really have any real military experience though? I mean i suppose they could handle a firearm and that basic stuff, but not experience compared to a guy who joined as an enlisted, went through OCS, then gradually worked his way up.
>doctorate leads to automatic O-3
I can't wait to see this shit get tested when the geopolitical shit hits the fan in 5-20 years and there's a draft that includes women, because, you know, equality and stuff.
What about my doctorate in queer wynyn's studies? I should be an ossifer! This is discrimination.
We're given the fundamentals during our Officers Basic Course, but as Medical Officers we're needed to perform specialized medical duties.
Nearly spit out my coffee reading that. I'm sure someone with a PhD in Queer Wynyn's Studies wouldn't want to join the patriarchy of the military-industrial complex.
BSN is mandatory.
I really wanted to go to West Point as a kid before I went through my edgy "lol fuck Dubya" phase in high school. I think I might have had a shot at it if I was aiming for it. Ah well. Now I'm into guns and hiking again, and about to graduate with a degree in a strategic language, a mediocre GPA, and a terror of sitting in a cubicle. Looks like OCS it is boys...
See you on the other side, hope all of these paper cuts won't sting too much.
>I'm sure someone with a PhD in Queer Wynyn's Studies wouldn't want to join the patriarchy of the military-industrial complex.
The feminisms you practice should always be both intersectional and aimed at breaking the barriers that patriarchy sets up in the face of brave womyn, anon.
>TFW I think I know who this is
what year are you and what branch were you freshman year?