He got a 1 second lock on an F-22 with a equipped with a luneberg lense (massive gimp for the F-22) after starting the engagement in an advantageous position (another massive gimp for the F-22) and immediately stalled trying to keep the lock.
It really means nothing, it's just some HUD footage that people like to troll with OMG LE EBIN F-22 SUCKS XDDDDD
>>28554949 Essentially, this short film has been used by many people in the past to say that the F-22 is shit, and the Rafale is superior. As it looks like, it's the gun camera footage from a Rafale in a mock dogfight with an F-22. This footage was used for years whenever people complained that the F-22 was shit. However, it's been so thoroughly discredited by this point that anyone who uses this is trolling.
What they failed to realize back then is that the F-22 always starts on the defensive (one Air Force general said that "anything else is a waste of fuel) and STILL generally beats their opponent, at a 30:1 ratio.
>>28554993 >He got a 1 second lock on an F-22 with a equipped with a luneberg lense Lock achieved with an IR missile.
MICA IR = InfraRed. Luneburg lense : nothing to do with infrared. Everything to do with radar waves.
>after starting the engagement in an advantageous position Face to face (there is a break at 8.6G in the Rafale HUD, on the right of the screen) is an advantage. Got it.
>and immediately stalled trying to keep the lock. No. "Release stick" doesn't mean stalling. it means "dude you're pulling too hard". There is stalling at some point. 86mp/h. The Rafale was still fully controlable and went for the "kill" a few seconds after this.
>It's not important, at all. Thats why. Just Rafalefags being desperate shitposters as per usual.
Only HUD footage of a 22 being killed in a dogfight. not important. Gotcha.
What's next ? The usual bullshit about fuel tanks being on ? While you clearly can't see any fuel tank under the 22's wings ?
See you next week for more tears after the Indian contract is finally signed. Though we expect russians and anglos to be even more butthurt.
And as always, if Dassault was a US manufacturer, you would praise the Rafale. You know it. We know it. Everyone does.
>>28555711 I see now. You are a fan boy of an aircraft that isn't an F-22. >The ONLY footage of an F-22 losing in a FAKE dog fight. It seems to me, were this not out of the ordinary there would be more footage of it occurring. Its a moot argument anyway. In a few years drones will be replacing them all
>Luneburg lense : nothing to do with infrared. Everything to do with radar waves.
Try spotting an F-22 at ALL with out one in a real scenario. The exercise had it start at a massive disadvantage by negating that.
It's like demanding your opponent in the ring have both arms tied then claim that the weight around his right arm is redundant.
>Face to face
>The Rafale was still fully controlable and went for the "kill" a few seconds after this.
>Only HUD footage of a 22 being killed in a dogfight. >Only HUD footage of a 22 coming moderately close to being killed in a dogfight in which it was basically designed to only be a target and denied its full capabilities
Fixed that for you
>What's next ? The usual bullshit about fuel tanks being on ?
If anything, Rafale is the one that relies on them more.
> if Dassault was a US manufacturer, you would praise the Rafale
If it were a US manufacturer, we'd be asking why the fuck it couldn't use any US weapons outside of Paveways.
>See you next week for more tears after the Indian contract is finally signed.
You mean the one that went from 126 aircraft to 36 after India realized France was massively underselling their prices and it fucking skyrocketed in cost at the same time as Brazil told Dassault to get fucked with those costs?
Yeah, sure we'll cry. Not like Rafale is literally the worst selling 4.5th gen Western fighter in the world or anything!
>>28555711 >Face to face (there is a break at 8.6G in the Rafale HUD, on the right of the screen) is an advantage. Got it. I would like to point out that the F-22 always starts on the defensive, as said by an Air Force general. I can source that claim if you'd like.
>Only HUD footage of a 22 being killed in a dogfight. >not important It really isn't. An EA-18G managed a kill on an F-22, and you don't see people trumpeting up the EA-18G's praises for its dogfighting ability.
>An EA-18G managed a kill on an F-22, and you don't see people trumpeting up the EA-18G's praises for its dogfighting ability.
Because it's not a dogfighter. Rafale is. The Rafale has SPECTRA, which allows it to get really close to F-22s without being seen first. Thats why this is important. Itll always be a dogfight because F-22 cant see Rafale to shoot it down first because of SPECTRA.
New generation active stealth. It hides the Rafale from radar better than old style shape stealth that can already be detected.
Rafale is the only aircraft in the world that has it. Thats why Meteor long range missile was not important because Rafale doesnt need it as much as other planes because SPECTRA hides it from missiles that cant see it up close. Thats why the MICA is better than the AM RAM because its better up close and turns better.
>>28556489 Wrong. SPECTRA is first and foremost an EW suite, focused on the detection of things lighting it up. It is claimed that it can be used to cancel out radar returns by emitting some of their own. And I would agree, it is possible in theory. It'd probably even work against older radar sets, or those without enough processing power available to them. But to think that modern US aircraft lack the ability to see through this is poppycock. AESA radars would see through it in a heartbeat, considering they jump frequencies and active jamming relies on destructive interference of the given frequency. And let's not forget that other RWRs would probably see those emissions quite clearly.
>Lock achieved with an IR missile. Nope, lock achieved with radar. You dont "lock" an aircraft up with anything else. But yes, if you are within radar lock range of an F-22, you sure as shit can get good tone on a heater, especially from the rear, looking at those engines.
>>28555711 >"Release stick" doesn't mean stalling Yes, it does. It means " if you continue to do this we will stall, stop it" >86mp/h knots, 86 kts indicated airspeed.
Basically every jet like the F-16, F-18, SUs E2000, etc, can get a rear quarter heater kill on an F-22, if they start from behind.
All aspect IR missiles can kill from 360 degrees anyway, including head on. The modern doctrine is to hit from long range, if that fails hit from close range, and if that all fails gtfo. There literally will not be dogfighting in any aircraft going in the future, unless things are seriously fubar ( which they wont be).
>>28558780 >There literally will not be dogfighting in any aircraft going in the future, unless things are seriously fubar ( which they wont be). lrn2history. in a war, things always go fubar, often in the worst possible way.
>>28558780 >You dont "lock" an aircraft up with anything else To clarify, the IR sensors will see the heat source, but then the radar is slaved to the IR suite pointing it there, so it can try to lock it up with radar beam.
But you can see a stealth aircraft on IR, and then tell the radar where to look, and the radar still wont be able to lock it up. Without radar information, a range cannot be known, and accurate targeting is impossible. A missile fired would not be able to pull lead pursuit on the target. Thus, its range and PK will be much, much lower.
>>28558856 Just because something was true in the past, doent mean it will always be true. At some point in the past men criticized automobiles as being inferior to horses, and they were right.
Men criticized semiautomatic and automatic firearms. They criticized fuel injection, BVR missiles...
>>28554993 At these ranges, the Rafale should have no trouble getting a lock even without a Luneberg lens.
The real question is how the hell a Rafale is going to get this close in the first place. This exercise was a pitched BFM exercise which simply handwaves that issue; it was essentially a pilot vs. pilot contest at it's purest.
>>28558889 Barn-door RCS kinda makes it harder for jamming to work effectively, but nice try. >>28558957 >Jamming is for medium range, not long range All of my wat >and not for close range Agreed, but mainly because jammer burn-through is a thing.
Eurofags are so eager to prove themselves the Luftwaffe actually paints F-22 'kill' marks from fucking exercises. Exercises where they do things like have the F-22 turn off it's radar and opposing force gets a respawn on a whim.
France and Germany are the autists for that. The rest generally don't harp about anything when it happens and just train, but the Frogs and Krauts are legendary for making so much shit up about things that happened.
>>28560631 France's military is underfunded so they haven't equipped them with MBDA Meteor but it exists and production could be quickly ramped up, Meteor is a fine missile and already in main line service with other European militaries
>France's military is underfunded so they haven't equipped them with MBDA Meteor but it exists and production could be quickly ramped up, Meteor is a fine missile and already in main line service with other European militaries
1) Meteor is not in full service with any nation yet 2) Missile exists, but it's not finished yet. Thats why Gripen and Typhoon went for AIM-120 until then, Rafale didn't because it can't use it 3) "Production could be quickly ramped up" is a pointless statement considering France isn't even the lead nation in designing/building the fucking missile, and is also pointless anyway because why WOULD it ramp up? They've got a fucking enormous capability gap of having no fucking BVR in their entire air force at ALL and the production never ramped up. So why would it now?
>>28561314 Read the thread. It's some old footage of some training exercises where a Rafael managed to get a brief lock on an F-22 Raptor that was gimped. Otherwise, the Rafael wouldn't stand a chance.
>>28554821 >yfw the frog in the rafale never actually called the kill >mfw the frog flight commander in an interview admitted that it was nothing to brag about seeing that the F-22 was set up to fail >mfw the F-4 Phantom eats rafales for breakfast does that mean the Phantom II > F-22?
>>28561314 That is a bit different, isn't it? What else is going on there... >Radar altimeter(?) below pressure altitude indication >Itty bitty artificial horizon icon on the left I like that. >Typical Western-style pitch ladder and horizon bar >Compass tape >G callout >AOA callout and indexer bracket Good... >Plane and bare airspeed callout at top left Meh, I'd really like to see a tape with limitations and reference speeds marked out. >Targeting spaghetti >Funky crucifix thing on the right No idea what most of that shit means. At least the gun pipper and range to target I understand.
>>28561646 >That's why everyone with an ounce of common sense will use the Rafale for blowing shit up on the ground, and other planes for air policing. So what do you suggest the French use for air superiority, then? Mirages? Etendards?
France doesn't prioritise air combat. Rafale wasn't designed to do it at a high level, they aren't pursuing two-way datalinks, their AESA program is only aiming for a small radar and they have absolutely no 5th generation plans whatsoever.
Pretty much this. France has such low chances of ever needing to do air to air work in their own territory or in their likely deployment zones that they just essentially forgo it from getting the top end funding.
NATO has more than enough F-15s, F-22s and Typhoons to cover for it though on the "top end air to air" zone at high altitude.
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