The year is 2018. You're the captain of an American militia staging an uprising against the government. You're in a deserted urban environment in downtown Austin Texas. There is a tank patrolling the street, it's alone but fully manned. You're going to launch a raid on it. Your mission is to disable, destroy, or capture it taking minimal casualties.
You only have the munitions that you've scavenged from the local gun store and the supplies you've found in the local homes and businesses. What tactics/weapons would you use to surround and neutralize it?
What beats a tank? Could you jam the barrel? Fog up it's sensors? Clog up the exhaust ports? In Saving Private Ryan they constructed a sticky grenade and blew it's treads off. Would this really be effective?
Light it on fire, that'd be annoying.
Try making an EFPIED.
The best way to destroy enemy tanks in that scenario is sabotage or denial of fuel to where they are coming from. Or getting the crew to defect.
Fighting abrams with nothing to feasibly knock them out is suicide and would be a waste of time and effort.
I'd use some of the sweet AT launchers that the Ruskies would have given us since they've pledged support to future active secessionist movements.
You could do what that crowd in Bahrain did and mob it with about fifty people throwing molotovs but all that would do is disable its sensors till the fuel burns off. Unless there's a follow up it can't disable it.
EFPs and the like would damage it. Its hard to say if it would kill it though, because no reliable information on the composition of Abrams armor is publicly available.
>Could you jam the barrel?
If you get past the coaxial and crows. They could just clear pretty much any debris by firing a shell though.
>Fog up it's sensors?
Of dubious value.
>Clog up the exhaust ports?
M1s can function with burning fuel on the engine deck, I'm sure a blocked exhaust would start affecting the tank until long after you've been dealt with.
>constructed a sticky grenade and blew it's treads off.
So now the tank is a pillbox and knows you're there.
the only reliable and cheap way to disable a tank is to dig a really big, or really deep hole and camoflage it.
Between the sensor array, 1000000 times folded composite armor, and it not being 1932, stupid pranks arent going to do shit if you even get close enough, which is very unlikely.
You could also try to bounce it in the air as high as possible with a bomb for a crew kill, and a likely mobility kill. EFP could make a kill, if the disc is like a fucking foot wide.
Probably wait for the tank to come to a point where the distance to run to it and jump on top of it is shortest.
Have some men clog vents, have two dudes cut open the hatch with a blowtorch or some sort of welding equipment. Others are waiting, guns pointed to fire into it
Once open, smoke grenades inside, close hatch
>this kills the tank
wait 5-10 mins
take tank- if we can figure out how to operate. If there was time beforehand and the plan was to take the tank, we would have researched how to/found recruits who could
>EFPs and the like would damage it. Its hard to say if it would kill it though, because no reliable information on the composition of Abrams armor is publicly available.
Christ, just hit it in the side.
>You're in a deserted urban environment in downtown Austin Texas.
We've already lost it seems.
I'm assuming you mean a M1A2 TUSK tank, and basic firearms at a gun store/other supplies in a town pretty much mean you're fucked. All you could really do is piss the thing off. I figure you just run.
Get the Austin city council to pass an ordnance making Austin a "tank free zone" and then post the appropriate signs. This should effectively deny the entire area to any tanks.
>recruit mole who works in chow hall
>poison hundreds at a time including the tankers
It's in a city. I'd rig an IED to collapse the side of a building onto it.
You're so much more fucked if you're in open country.
For the record, OP, this is a totally unusual scenario. Even in the suppression of its own people, USG would not deploy MBT armor without mechanized infantry support.
How has no one suggested hiding near a choke point behind something thick, then suicide bombing he thing as it passes or when it's close and smoke has been thrown. Yeah thermals, but you have two, three guys charging a tank with enough c4 to fuck the hulk up, you'll at least damage the thing.
Ha, please. 10 years in the army, sure, I'm a kid
My point exactly. If you smoke the tank, it might help disappear from the periscope FOV while they switch to thermals.
Once you're out of the periscope FOV, you might get close enough to the tank.
I MEAN IF I CAN DO IT IN BATTLEFIELD...
>Even if it takes 2 seconds, it's still a distraction.
>Also they don't have a full 360° FOV.
It takes as long as it takes to flip a switch that shunts the view from day to thermal sight. The thermal sight runs all the time and is ready to go instantly.
The sights don't cover 100% of the arc all the time, but tanks don't work alone and tanks don't operate hatches down unless they are under CBRN threat.
Oh I know. I'm just setting up a scenario to figure out how a militia would handle a tank if it came down to it. Are they really invincible? I realize that it's pretty much hopeless in open country.
Who knows? There are a ton of scenarios where a situation like this might arise. Communications go down, forces are scattered, supplies limited. Perhaps even a little bit of incompetence.
Fair enough. Civilian rigged shit then.
Couldn't find the termite bomb pic, so close enough.
not even the person you're arguing with but you need to stop and realize that NO ONE called you a kid. you simply don't understand how a board system works. you are the one who called someone a kid
tanks pretty much always run buttoned up unless they are in the green zone, even then its not like shermans where you got everyone painting bullseyes on their helmets and hanging out of the hatches, so crew kill is done.
the only way to really "defeat" it is to use some smoke and fireworks to confuse the thermals and then run like hell, you're not gonna kill it with random scrounged supplies.
Notice I did say "unusual" rather than "impossible."
IRL I think if a militia actually saw this happen they'd be most interested in trying to capture it. A non-damaging mobility kill, like getting it to go over a small, weakened bridge, or a false strip of roadway where it falls onto some tank traps or something like that - then your dudes swarm up to it and clog the exhaust and ventilation. Given enough time, crew inside comes out, you shoot/capture them, then dismantle the trap and haul your new tank out with some kind of heavy construction equipment or something.
That is, in the unlikely event you get to do all that in the first place.
But for just wrecking the tank straight away, collapsing a building on it seems great. It worked on the Eastern Front.
The periscopes are mounted into the hatches in a circle or semi circle spending on where they are located. The person is the only thing that has to rotate. Abrams turrets are manned
No, in an urban setting the commander and gunner sights are used to view different directions around the tank. They only need to worry about the sides and possibly rear(the rear will most likely be covered by infantry) as frontal view is covered by the drivers view. Smoke won't help you, if anything it will be detrimental to your own forces. The abrams can equip smoke launchers and has a smoke screen funtion that dumps fuel onto the exhaust.
Find someone to weld up some tank traps and get a few dump trucks full of crap. Box them in to a small section of the city. Starve them out. Kill them when they try to find food.
>There is a tank patrolling the street, it's alone but fully manned
Never gonna happen, even the Russians aren't that dumb any more.
>You only have the munitions that you've scavenged from the local gun store and the supplies you've found in the local homes and businesses
So you have nothing that would be even vaguely effective
>What tactics/weapons would you use to surround and neutralize it?
Surrounding it would be the single worst idea as you give the CROWS and MG's the max number of targets and still have no reasonable way to engage
>What beats a tank? destroying logistics and not being where the tank is
>Could you jam the barrel?
Tank guns are test fired with shells that are over boresize to test that this couldn't be effective
>Fog up it's sensors?
If you can manage to get bast the CROWS and co-ax, that would be an annoyance but not disable it
>Clog up the exhaust ports?
With what? This idea is what molotov's where made for and all they have to do to keep from getting smoked is keep driving
>In Saving Private Ryan they constructed a sticky grenade and blew it's treads off. Would this really be effective?
To achieve a mobility kill and run away, this would be your best option, possible leave a sniper to kill a crewman if he tries to repair the track, but the sniper can expect a 120mm HE round in return
I believe the material they are made of is good up to 20mm HE. you might be able to break it with a few .50 API rounds, but by then the crows and co-ax probably have a bead on you.
They are bullet resistant, that's about it. Infrared isn't an end all be all. Periscopes just have to spiderweb and you can't see out of them, doesn't matter if a bullet goes through
Make 2 satchel charges with pipes and 4f black powder in said pipes. Cause a distraction infront of the Tank commander focused on the front assuault. Have a team go behind the tank. Place one charge on the engine deck and another at the road wheels. Light fuses and run. No engine and no track. Combat ineffective. Or blow up the road when it's over a sewer junction and have it collapse into the sewer.
Guys, I'd suggest going unnaground and tunnelling under a stretch of road so that the tank falls through the weakly supported top layer.
After providing some bait for it so that it crosses the trap.
Otherwise I could only think of dousing it in hundreds of litres of extra thick burning napalm, and hope enough gets fucked up to kill its mobility.
yeah but now it has a decent bead on where you are and is a pissed off pillbox with grenade launchers, 3 mgs, and 120mm cannon. you're still fucked. not to mention the air support that would show up and bring the reckoning upon your anus. you honestly can't beat a tank right now, given all the support and armor they have.
Borrow a backhoe and get busy digging one fuck of a trench. Then you need to lure the tank towards the trap. Then either leave it there and wait for the crew to emerge or burn it as best you can. Thermite if you have some gumption, destroy a tread link.
Would a termite grenade down the gun barrel wreck it? I'm thinking a termite grenade is fairly simple to make at home.
>A classic military use for thermite is disabling artillery pieces, and it has been used for this purpose since World War II; such as at Pointe du Hoc, Normandy. Thermite can permanently disable artillery pieces without the use of explosive charges, and therefore thermite can be used when silence is necessary to an operation. This can be done by inserting one or more armed thermite grenades into the breech and then quickly closing it; this welds the breech shut and makes loading the weapon impossible.Alternatively, a thermite grenade discharged inside the barrel of the gun will foul the barrel, making the weapon very dangerous to fire.
bury a damn big IED
Use thermite or explosive charges to blow the treads, immobilizing it, probably lose some guys doing this
Wait until the engineers come to de-fuck the tank, when they're outside working it, blow the IED
If the batteries have a charge they can still traverse and operate all equipment (besides tack movement) for 5-12 hours. Plus they have manual elevation and traverse handles.
>get your facts straight
I mean there was a soldier who was arrested for informing the enemy how to catch them on fire. If they catch tankers don't stay in there despite their whole death before dismount
How about just dumping a bunch of gasoline on it from high up, then lighting it on fire.
Shoot any heads that you see poking out.
Wait for it to stop or crash. Then you can approach and do what you need to do. Use thermite to disable the treads. Disable all the guns. Keep dumping gas on it to keep the fire alive.
Clog up the exhaust ports. Either wait for the crew to surrender, or work on getting the hatches open and tossing a grenade inside.
Or the tires, or hit the thing with a single RPG
Mobility (making sure our side can move, I.e clearing obstacles, mines etc) counter mobility (making sure the enemy cannot move or move the way we want them to move with obstacles, mines etc) and survivability ( making sure our fighting positions are strong enough )
>two dudes cut open the hatch with a blowtorch or some sort of welding equipment. Others are waiting, guns pointed to fire into it
All a blowtorch would do is make it hot. To actually cut through it you'd need an oxy/propane or oxy/acet rig, and that means someone's got to run to the tank and climb on to it while carrying the rig. I honestly don't know whether a rifle round would burst an oxy bottle or not, but I sure as shit wouldn't want to be holding one while someone was shooting at me, just in case.
Then there's the time factor. Oxyfuel cutting isn't like how they show it in the movies - it's slow as fuck. The thicker the material you're cutting the longer it takes, and with something like a tank hatch (how thick are they anyway? I have no idea) you might be stood there for 30 minuites to cut it open. It'd be quicker to use a thermal lance, and you'd only need the oxy bottle, but they're long, heavy and generally unwieldy. Plus you'd need something to light it with - we use the flame from an oxy/propane rig to light them at work, but I've heard you can light them with a big road flare.
Still point being they can traverse, load rounds and fire. Which at that point you've accomplished a mobility kill. Now that they are looking for you they've loaded a Can round and scanning with the citv and crows. The whole crew is on alert.
I personally would fire a few rounds of 7.62 type round into the dog house and citv glass. It wouldn't penetrate but should spider web rendering it ineffective.
Yeah you'd probably only cut it open if you were adamant on capturing it servicable. Otherwise you'd probably just burn it out or damage it enough to make it irrecoverable; not technologically irreparable , but damaged to such an extent and within a territory which you have enough presense that the potential risks of recovering it outweight the value of the disabled vehicle. At which point they'd probably just airstrike it.
The NBC system would keep them breathing just fine on the inside. Plus manual traverse and elevation controls would still be a thread. And good luck clogging up the exhaust system. It's roughly 4½ wide and 2 feet tall. (Might be wrong but its pretty big) its been a while since I've been on one. I'm pretty sure there would be better uses of gasoline in that situation pro tip drivers, and loaders hatches always leak
Likely because it was staged and the tank was already long since abandoned, they just came along and made a video of blowing it up to try and look cool, like plenty of these sort of videos showing static targets getting btfo. If there's a full version showing the tank doing anything beforehand I'll change my mind, but I doubt there is.
haha, that would suck for the crew
>get back to base
>uh we need some assistance guys
>OK why don't you hop out of the tank and let us know what u need, we're literally ten feet away from you
>here's the thing...we're kinda welded shut right now
>are you fucking serious?
>find nearest fertilizer plant
>get a shit ton of barrels
>get a ton of coffee
> splice a ton of wires
>figure out tank route
>scout out town before planting said IED
>tank rolls through town
>small arms fire with sun to backs
The seeds have been planted.
>All these people suggesting the use of thermite just because they think it's ez to make.
Relevant to this thread.
C4 is used as a cutting charge, to cut steel etc. Comp b is a pushing charge, and is actually used in shape charges. C4 would work but not really a great job. I've tried the wine bottle amd c4 trick.
If you can't make an armor kill, make a tread kill and then work from there with molotovs.
A tank that can move will just drive away from molotovs, a tank that is stuck can't and could get cooked.
Other alternative is to use a large enough explosive that you can put under the road, perhaps in a manhole (if you're in a city there's probably plenty), then blow the road and hope the tank collapses into a position it can't move from, then either molotov it or just leave it be and cover with guns until the crew has to leave.
Though if you have enough explosives to collapse a road, you probably have enough (and enough metal) to make shape charges of some sort that you can leave around and hope to blow a hole through the tank or the tread at least.
I think any smart country would back a viable secessionist movement.
If not for destabilizing the Geo-Political supremacy of the united states, it would be for fostering a relationship with a new regime, especially if it were friendly with said supporting country.
this, well too a point. tank ditches. if you make a tank ditch and camouflage it, you can hopefully attack it while its partially immobile. using a shape charge on a m1a1 tusk isnt really going to do much. a blast explosive on the other hand, will do the job
>capturing the tank
Outside of pilfering it's ammo for some IED material, what's the fucking point?
Yell at my commander and suggest that we target ammo and fuel trucks instead. Steal artillery and tank rounds to use for more IEDs.
The joy of guerrilla warfare is that you can pick and choose your targets.
a lot of these answers are uninspired. as a former abrams crew member, i can promise you wont see a lone tank. they roll in groups of four with fairly wide dispersion. even if you ied a tank or disable the gunners sight, the other three will cover it. plus the gunner has a plain scope optic i can still hit with. plus the tank commander can take over the gun. the commander has his periscope sight with thermals and 360 degree glass viewing ports. the tanks weakness is blind spots that are within 10-25 meters.
sadly in this scenario there's a lone tank. your best bet is a thick metal pipe in the drive sprocket. launch this mighty weapon from a street level window. cause a track to jump off then shoot the crew as the pop out to fix it before help comes. shoot the main gun optics and the commander optics for bonus points.
if you were bold and knowledgable you could ied the battery compartment. the manual powered tank is slow and easy to beat out. or ied the air intake.
Dis, we did a combined arms breach with some Abrams and Bradley s.
all that would really do is ruin optical (eyeball) sights, so just switch to thermals and kill the engine and put it on battery, now you have a pissed off pillbox that knows where you are, and is probably calling air support to give you a predator-drone-enabled ass raping.
>Drop copious amounts of dark paint on it
>As infantry/engineers/etc arrive to help/wtf?
>Your premade gas trap is sprung, houses on both sides of the tank and behind, prepared properly, dump 4-10 barrels of gasoline mixture on to the street below
>At the most opportune moment the flame is set either by Molotov or a incendiary device
>Other houses around the tank/support have highly flammable material concentrated as close to the road as possible and will catch rapidly
>Ensuing inferno catches tank on fire, hopefully supporting forces take fire casualties also
>if so, the armor will have no where to go but forward, and with fire everywhere in between them and the armor they will be temporarily cut off
>The blaze is spreading fast and hot - and the armor is cutoff from its support and mostly blinded (IR too)
>At this point one man can run up very quickly to do what needs to be done
>Every other person involved doesn't even need to carry a weapon, and they'll escape just to blend in with society, gone.
>>if so, the armor will have no where to go but forward, and with fire everywhere in between them and the armor they will be temporarily cut
Needs to be
>If so, the armor will have nowhere to go but forward, and with the massive, sudden fire the panicked crewmen and support will be cutoff from each other
Ill also mention that the tanks optics wont be the only ones effected - NODs, FLIR, etc also
This would actually be a perfect time to ambush the infantry with some snipers
Basically what I'm getting from this thread is avoid conflict with fighting troops be it infantry or armor and go after logistics and command targets.
If I don't have some moderm AT weapons I'm certainly not going up against a modern tank.
Best strategy is to paint dicks all over it and shoot them when they get out to scrub them off.
Get two drones that can carry 3 lbs.
Have the two drones equipped with a 3lb warhead filled with crushed 1/4 inch chunks of hardened tool steel.
Rig up three to four teslas or other electric cars or fly by wire cars to be piloted remotely.
Fill with whatever binary explosive and have the airbag circuit set it off.
Have a drone fly over the top of the tank's hatch and explode: shredding the 240. Have another land/hover right infront of the doghouse and ignite, causing the lens to lose clarity from hairline scratches.
Rig up three to four Teslas, other electric cars or fly by wire cars to be piloted remotely.
Fill with whatever binary explosive and have the airbag circuit set it off.
Have one car approach with a dummy inside. have the other three "attack" simultaneously from three directions.
Hopefully one or two hits w/ ~200Kg will incapacitate the tank.
>there is a tank patrolling the street, it's alone
I'll take things that would never happen for 100, alex.
Tanks never deploy alone. If there isn't an infantry squad (or platoon, more likely) nearby, there's at least one other tank.
The chance this is bait for insurgents approaches unity.
op is a fucking idiot 1.tanks dont work alone their always with infantry or other armored vehicles. 2.what gun store hold equipment good enough for tanks. 3.urban texas? of all places urban texas? why op?