>if you use weed you are barred from owning a firearm
>if you use a substance that is leagues less dangerous than alcohol and provides a multitude of health benefits as well as inhibiting the growth of cancer you literally lose a constitutional right
There's no defense for this. Why is this allowed?
I agree its utterly retarded and I've never smoked pot in my life. Fucking conservacucks...
>hurrr duurr why does someone who alters their state of mind not be able to shoot
>why cant I, when I alter my state of mind with something else, cant shoot and own guns?!?!?!
I do agree though, BANNING them is pointless. However, I don't think you should inhale before shooting.
Because it's illegal.
Even if it's a stupid law, it's still a law.
If you break a law then you're a criminal.
If you're a criminal you don't get to have a gun.
You don't get to pick and choose which laws apply to you.
if you actually want to use this argument, and possibly "win" people over with it, under no circumstances EVER, fucking say
>provides a multitude of health benefits as well as inhibiting the growth of cancer
it sounds absofuckinglutely jackass retarded and you just lost any hope you had of someone taking account the weed conviction/firearm license debate.
just a tip, or maybe this thread was a bait thread to begin with. Dont know and dont care anymore
>However, I don't think you should inhale before shooting.
I think we'd all agree on that, it would be very similar to driving intoxicated. It's just stupid that you could get caught smoking pot once, go to jail, and 20 years later be denied a firearm because of it, even though there's absolutely zero permanent trace of marijuana.
Not even him, but... Do you not realize that it's starting to become more and more like alcohol? There are plenty of people who aren't teenagers anymore that still do it in social settings.
>tfw marijuana will probably be legalized nationwide in 10 years or less.
How will this impact the gun buying process? Will they just take the question off completely?
But unjust laws exist.
Do we abide them unjustly?
Do we endeavour to convince a party who doesn't care what you think or say to change them?
Or shall we transgress them altogether?
There is no benefit to weed existing.
Anything you can "cure" with it, could be done synthetically.
>implying you actually care about that aspect anyway
It just creates degeneracy.
>Evidence from laboratory studies, anecdotal reports, and small clinical studies from a number of years ago suggests that cannabidiol, a non-psychoactive compound of cannabis, could potentially be helpful in controlling seizures.
>Individual reports of children with refractory (or intractable) epilepsy who have tried cannabis, usually with high ratios of cannabidiol to THC, have reported marked improvements in seizure frequency, including a report describing the results of Charlotte, a girl with Dravet syndrome.
And in a trial with a 99% cannabidiol treatment called Epidiolex:
Seizures decreased by an average of 54% in 137 people who completed 12 weeks on Epidiolex.
Patients who had DS responded more positively with a 63% decrease in seizures over 3 months. This improvement in seizures lasted through 24 weeks on the Epidiolex, more often for people with DS than without DS.
In 27 patients with atonic seizures (which are commonly seen in people with LGS as well as other types of epilepsy), the atonic seizures decreased by 66.7% on average.
The responder rate (the number of people whose seizures decreased by at least 50%) was also slightly better in patients with DS (about 55% at 3 months) as compared to patients without DS (50%).
You're a fucking idiot if you're still in denial about this. It has helped many people, especially those who are younger who are being treated with high doses of prescription drugs that they shouldn't be putting in their bodies at the age of 6. There's testing happening right now for treatment like this because it has a lot of potential for people who aren't responding to conventional treatments. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not working.
People with severe epilepsy sometimes don't respond to conventional, synthetic, prescription drugs. Or if they do, the side effects are too extreme to consider it a viable way of treating them. That's the niche that THC oil can fill. It helps people. It has been proven to help people. Did a weed dealer fuck your wife or something?
Not the guy you replied to, but that's actually pretty shitty as a cure.
If it has an effect, it's probably related to being more mellowed out.
I'm sure that more goal oriented synthetic drugs would do better.
>YOU HATE FREEDOM CAUSE YOU LIKE WEED AND CALLED ME NAMES
>so far scientifically controlled studies have not shown definitive proof of the effectiveness and safety of marijuana or cannabis and epilepsy
next time read your own source in don't cherry pick
From your own source
>"So far, scientifically controlled studies have not shown definitive proof of the effectiveness and safety of marijuana or cannabis in epilepsy. For example, in 2012, a literature review of clinical studies on cannabinoids for epilepsy could not give a reliable conclusion about the effectiveness of four randomized controlled trials of cannabidiol."
So, for the "health benefits" plural...it was typed as plural, you site a single evidence claim that treats an incredibly small portion of the population most of who will not longer be using cannabis by the time they are of age to purchase firearms...?
Maybe we should illegalize abortion since that stops kids from dying too...
It's not intended as a "cure". It's just meant to decrease the intensity of the seizures and spasms that these people have because it's common for people not to respond to synthetic drugs and other conventional treatments. My oldest sister suffers from epileptic seizures, and she's had multiple surgeries done to try and negate her symptoms because her prescription stopped blocking her seizures. The most recent one (about a year ago) seems to be working so far, but it was an expensive surgery and we don't know yet if it will work or not. That can be really expensive for families, and can be really risky because there are many new (and untested) approaches, and surgery is always risky, especially on children. I think this THC oil is just another option families will have for alleviating symptoms, but I really think it's one that we should give them.
This argument has retards on both sides
>Hurr pot is just like meth! It's illegal and is more dangerous than any other substance on earth. I believe in reefer madness!
>Pot is the best thing on the planet! It will instantly cure cancer, DUDE WEED
It need to be legalized, it has health benefits and is less harmful than even alcohol, although it's still not perfect, it can still be harmful, just to a lesser degree.
Look at how successful it was for Colorado, they legalized it and taxed it and it payed off in dividends for the taxpayers.
It's not a miracle substance, but it's not bad either. The culture surrounding it it cringey, but that can be looked past.
It's not the 1930s anymore, it won't melt your face off, but it won't cure anything, it can only help treat certain medical problems.
I see it like alcohol, its something that should be done in a controlled area, just like getting drunk.
Arrest people for driving while under the influence, tax it, and allow recreational use.
We waste fucking millions a year fighting it. We are basically burning money to make people who fell for the drug war propaganda feel better about it.
No one is arguing we should encourage intoxicated firearm use with pot any more than with beer. But if I go to the range I should be able to come home and relax with a beer or a joint. Neither impact my ability to shoot the next day.
hahaha, okay dude.
It's worth a shot. A lot of younger kids who have Dravat's or are suffering from highly frequent seizures aren't really living anymore, they just spasm non stop and cry because they're exhausted. At least with THC oil parents can try to give their child a chance to develop. It's worked before, and I'm sure if there were long term effects of their kid being lethargic, they would probably take that over their kid being in pain and spasming nonstop.
Right, so barring an effective counter-argument you're going to invoke esoteric theoretical grammar rules I have, in no way, violated. I shrink at the way weight of your moral victory.
if i wanna smoke a joint and mess with my glock and accidentally blow my hand off (because weed puts you in a mind altered state where common sense goes out the window) then thats my problem,
I read it. This is a very new thing. Medical practices for Humans take an incredibly long time to greenlight for being safe and effective. I didn't say this was a cure for epilepsy or seizures. I said it's helped people.
Because it has.
Theres no counter arguement for you being uninformed. I just wanted to point out you use ellipses like an edgy 14 year old, but ok
>less harmful than alcohol
Completely untrue, the human liver creates enzymes to break down ethanol, there is no enzyme produced by the human body that metabolizes THC, it gets stored in the fat and persists in the body up to months after use.
this is untrue, THC metabolites are what is stored in fat, THC is metabolized and broken down by the body and then its remnants are incorporated into fat reserves. If it was never metabolized, it would never wear off, that's just retarded
thc stays in your system for about 10 to 14 days, the "it stays for months" myth is false.
You would have to do it for a really fucking long time all day everyday for it to stay for a very long time.
The longest recorded time it stayed in someones system was 68 days after a guy smoked it every day for almost 10 years.
>doing literally no research at all
Lower testosterone in nascent brain development, lowered levels of glutamate production, lower relative brain mass.
Yeah, that's no appreciable effect at all.
Technically yes, the 4473 is a federal form and pot is still illegal federally, but realistically no. I do have a friend who got his mmj card before it was legal (coloradofag) and he got denied for a CCW permit, but once it expired he was approved.
Lawmakers don't make laws based on logic or reason, only feels. This goes back to the 20's and before.
I wanted to buy a Ruger 10/22 to plink off my back porch, but because I have a medical marijuana card for my cancer I'm not allowed to buy or handle a firearm.
I was tried of being miserable on a concoction of opiates and pain/nausea meds, so my doctor had me try out low-THC high-CBD oil supplements, and now I can live a somewhat normal life again. Before this, I never touched pot, never even smoked or drank because I didn't want to ruin my body, but I'm happy my doctor suggested this.
I don't think it's a miracle drug, it's not curing my cancer, but it is allowing me to live a normal life.
Much like prohibition of the 20's and 30's, the laws were based on people's fee-fees and not logic. In both cases, the negative impact on American society has been greater than the impact caused by drunkards and stoners.
>but it won't cure anything
the Food and Drug Administration (a federal entity) would like to have a word with you.
No fuck you, stoners need to stop latching onto other groups in an attempt to legalize their vice. Either get the rest of the potheads to actually do something constructive instead of trying to draw parallels to unrelated topics or shut up and continue to buy relatively cheap and available weed illegally. Nobody cares that alcohol isn't your preferred method of escapism, fact of the matter is alcohol is legal and pot was made illegal, your fight was decided yeas ago and an effective push to legalize weed on a federal scale hasn't happened. All the "waaaah but their vice is legal! Punish them or reward me!" bullshit that gets spouted about alcohol isnt winning you any support, life isnt fair you aren't special alcohol is legal weed isn't grow up and campaign for the lagalizatuon of your vice based on actual reasons. All the stoners arguing for medical benefits loses its relevance when it is blatantly obvious they just want to get high try being a grown up and just say "I want to get high, it doesnt hurt anybody it shouldnt be illegal in the privacy of my own home." Nobody cares that you are a special snowflake who blah blah blah gays, guns and weed. Both guns and gays effectively manage to defend their rights without trying to drum up support from other groups in hilariously misinformed ways.
I believe the phrasing is "are you addicted to or an unlawful user".
Being addicted to pot sounds pretty bad, and it seems that if you're a legal recreational user you're fine.
My take on it, not that I'd care.
I've gotten drunk before and I can tell you for sure that you don't want to be using a firearm while on the stuff. Its just common sense.
I've also smoked weed before and I can tell you for sure that I operate heavy machinery and firearms perfectly fine on the stuff. Not everybody has the same reaction to pot.
Also, when you use phrases like "its just common sense" you sound like a condescending liberal piece of shit.
>doesn't understand how chemical retention in fat works
>doesn't understand how chemical chain decay works
>doesn't understand how neuro-chemical bonding works
And this is why nobody takes you faggots seriously.
Marijuana can (supposedly) fuck with myelination. Even if the mother uses a vaporizer there could be complications if she doesn't exercise caution to only partake rarely, if at all.
This isn't saying much though, soft cheese, sushi, and energy drinks aren't safe for fetuses either.
>Nobody cares that you are a special snowflake who blah blah
If nobody cares, then why allocate billions to battle it? 15 billion dollars in a year, 1/4 of the prison population is there for possesion. Americans concept of "freedom" is kinda flawed
They will have no market if it is legalized nationwide, they can't sell contraband if their product isn't contraband.
Also, medical and store bought pot is way stronger than home grown so you wouldn't have to look to foreign smugglers to get good quality and run the risk of being caught and getting you shit canned.
How would you respond to that? Clearly the guy's is set in his ways and has a really strong conviction against what he sees as "stoners who never do shit". I don't think anonymously arguing on the internet is going to change his mind.
Only good answers in the thread.
/k/ has turned into /int/ and /pol/ levels of shitposting.
for that matter, what the fuck does neurochemical bonding even have to do with the fact that nobody has ever or will ever die from smoking marijuana or the fact that cannabis-fetal syndrome isn't a recognized problem as compared to nicotine and alcohol?
fuck your pseudo-intellectual horseshit bro
Im sure you are a senior cartel member who is an authority on the matter, but ill try to make my point anyway. Weed has a way larger demographic than hard drugs, ergo they sell more of it
What's stopping me from lying on the form and smoking anyways?
I agree, using marijuana shouldn't be an issue with ownership at all.
I don't smoke, drink, do anything of that nature really. I think most pro-gun individuals agree that it should boil down to this:
>don't operate firearms when under the influence of either
But if you enjoy it when you're not handling weapons, that's fine. Pretty simple. Pic unrelated.
The black market for cigarettes is mostly between states, to my knowledge. Sort of like how Marijuana is now, people go to the "relaxed" states to get their goods, then bring them home.
cool story bro. If a woman is smoking anything while pregnant, the issue isnt what she is smoking, its that she is fucking retarded, and isnt qualified to have a child.
what you're arguing has never been disputed, because no one cares. What people discuss are why the fuck this plant, that does pretty much nothing harmful to me or my surroundings is illegal to have.
>This argument has retards on both sides
He says, while he writes a retarded conclusion in favor.
>We waste fucking millions a year fighting it. We are basically burning money to make people who fell for the drug war propaganda feel better about it.
This is a problem with the US criminal justice system, not a point in favor of drug use. The US criminal justice system is amusingly inefficient. I'm sure building more prisons will help, though. pfft
Explain why I cant buy a suppressor without Big gubmint's permission.
100+ year old Politics. Pure and simple.
The arguments against it are almost anti-gun level bad.
>Muh 30,000 deaths
>Muh deaths from pot
>You don't NEED that
>All those stupid GUN NUTS dragging down society
>All these stupid POTHEADS dragging down society
>I don't need the facts to be right
>I've never shot a gun, so I know what I'm talking about!
>I have no clue how pot affects people and I will never try it.
>There's no such thing as a responsible gun owner
>All pot smokers are lazy and unproductive stoners
Funny how there are people who refuse to learn the facts about the thing they are against are always experts on the subject.
Great, then the stoners who you hate will have less effective semen, and can have less kids. It sounds like that's probably what you want, so let's just legalize it and get it underway.
This is a great parallel because this thread totally shows it to be true
>eugenics as an argument in favor of legalization
>Funny how there are people who refuse to learn the facts about the thing they are against are always experts on the subject.
And you're an expert for?
Have you worked in any capacity in the criminal justice field, or are you just talking out of your ass?
So your argument hinges on the idea that legalizing pot will cut off cash to the cartels. You all act like it won't end up being sold from Mexico to the states in a similar fashion to how cigarettes are traded illegally interstate wise. I'm sure all of you little druggies much rather purchase cheaper pot from a questionable source rather than buy it for a much higher price legally.
I just imagined a mildly faster Electric Wizard sound for the instrumentals but Dying Fetus sounding vocals with FETAL WEED SYNDROME in metal as fuck bloody letters in the backdrop behind the band, and I'm avin a gigl m8
At the end of the day, their solution will just create more government oversight and bureaucracy as various other departments move in to verify origin and legal purchase on the part of retailers and all levels of possession between individuals will be subject to tax and interstate commerce regulation.
Net result: same number of people going to jail.
>Not being Straight edge
Degenerates. If you aren't straight edge you shouldn't have guns
>calling yourself "straight edge"
It's like highschool again!
I'm talking about people who have never had hands on experience with the thing in question.
If you have never bothered to research anything about firearms or their owners, or you have never tried to fire one to clear up any confusion, you have no room to be criticizing the progun side.
Same goes for pot, if you have never bothered to research the effects of it from credible sources, or you have never actually used it, to know yourself, you will not be as qualified to speak on the subject either way.
What if someone tried to say that an AR will blow a deer apart leaving only a crater and four legs, you would call them a retard for not doing a small amount of research required to not look like a misinformed faggot.
Same goes for pot, ronnie raygun made everyone think that it was the predecessor to krokodil.
If you bother to learn the facts about that which you oppose, you might just see it a different way and you might not look like such a rumor spewing ignoramus.
i turned my friend pro-gun that way.
>shes into snakes
>has like 15 years of experience in the reptile industry
>has been to florida and knows all the "invasive python" thing is bullshit firsthand
>talks about how people are trying to ban snakes over 3 feet or something
>talks about how you cant take them between states
>talks about how a couple retards were irresponsible, got a couple people killed, and now everyone wants to ban tactical assault snakes
>i look at her and repeat everything she just said, but replaced, "snake," with, "rifle."
>new pro-2a advocate
I totally get where they're coming from.
My retarded pothead friends always try to go shooting with me while they're high as fuck, and when I say absolutely not, they act like they're 100% as competent while high. Which is not true. They're fucking retarded when they're high. Just like everyone else. Half the reason those fucking sandniggers we were supposed to fight with were so incompetent.
>Everyone is retarded when their high, even though I probably havent been high myself, I know what the effects are on every single person regardless of tolerance or any other multitude of factors
>You don't get to pick and choose which laws apply to you.
Wasn't that the whole point of states and local politics?
>my state law says nothing about being a drug user, only about being mentally unstable or a convict or subject to restraining order
>only thing preventing you from owning a firearm would be lying on a federal form
>private sales legal
So yeah, unless the firearm is on your person while you're committing a felony, it's totally legal to own if you use marijuana, which is only a misdemeanor.
>If you break a law then you're a criminal.
>If you're a criminal you don't get to have a gun.
Why not? No other rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, or even further Amendments, are violated merely because of a felony conviction.
>because they could use a gun to hurt someone!
White-collar criminals convicted of felonies aren't much more likely to use a firearm than any other person. Why should they lose such a right?
>but some criminals are more likely because recidivism!
If we are concerned that a person is still a danger to society, we need to reconfigure our punitive system to keep those people separated from society either in jail or other supervision. Furthermore, merely because somebody is more likely to commit a crime doesn't mean that their rights should be tampered with. Blacks, for example, are more likely to commit crimes than non-blacks, but we don't AND SHOULD'T restrict somebody's rights because they belong to a demographic of our choosing. Men commit the vast number of violent crimes, but we don't limit guns to men simply because they are men.
What really sucks for me because I'm level headed and can hold my liquor is that unless on my own property if I have consumed 1 drop of liquor in my state and have my gun in my possession its a class A misdemeanor for $10,000 and 9 months in jail. Which forces me with the options to either illegally carry, keep it in the glove box, or leave it at home.
The exact wording is currently "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"
It sounds like they would reject you for an addiction to a completely legal substance, so they could keep the question exactly the same and lawful marijuana smokers would just mark "no."
Yeah that sucks.
In WA you can't have a gun IN the bar area, but you can drink in a restaurant just fine.
I don't see why it shouldn't be that way, our society HAS a strong taboo against drunken carry, most people do not even drink while carrying but those who do do not get drunk.
Only exception being while backpacking I've been pretty drunk and armed.
Nobody was around and I never unholstered so whatever, I don't consider it any more dangerous than backpacking drunk without a gun.
Oh i mean I get shit-faced but I at no time am worried in any environment about the level of my drunkenness. I'm always very polite & nice and never make enemies. I realize a huge percentage of people go the other way and get all feisty and it would be a bad idea for them to be armed because they might go overt with their actions however all mine would be purely out of reactionary defense. I'd rather do the time, get the fine, pay the lawyer, then be in a wood box.
Own guns legally
You'll get fucked with much harder for owning guns illegally
Until they make smoking a felony, or can take away your guns for it, its the right choice
Fuck letting the government know you do anything
The chilling effects of which can be seen here
He said common sense goes out the window,
Not that you'll be seeing dragons and shit
I know for a fact that weed will make you forget all kinds of shit, like not to grab the metal surface you just heated up with a blowtorch,
Or where you left your keys
Or rules you've had drilled into your head since childhood
Probably because medical cards are stupid easy to get and if you have one, you have the ability to buy weed for other people.
Why trust a dealer with a few strains when you can just waltz into a head shop, flash your med card and rec letter, and buy any number of strains, along with things like edibles that make consumption more pleasant for you and everyone around you (no smoke, little to no smell, no accessories needed, no ashes, etc) or have a friend that can do it for you?