Daily reminder that the M4 is essentially the perfect infantry

>>28521575
>doesn't know about the stg44
lol ameriboo

>>28521575
You're absolutely right.

>>28521575
I disagree about it being "perfect" but I don't see any major reason to replace it.
If it were me, I'd take all that heavy optics and shit off there and be much happier though.

*jams*

>DI gas system

It's a great rifle and it shouldn't be replaced for now, but it's not perfect.

>some have VFG's, some don't
Why? Is it personal preference?

>>28522818
*memes*

>>28522826

>Implying that's a flaw

>>28521575
Pretty much as long as small arms exist as we know them. M4 is great.

I'm sorry but it's not as reliable as an AK. And the bigger bullets can actually kill someone.

>>28523858

More pls

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>>28523880
>not as reliable as an AK
Nice meme. This isn't 1972.
https://youtu.be/X7IGHWIMNE0

>>28523880

Fuck right off with this bullshit you noguns faggot
https://www.full30.com/video/30a1f036a5143172f5da39cf50f46360

https://www.full30.com/video/753d617d16a9cb6c09526519a0740313

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>>28523880
>M4s can't kill someone

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>>28523858
>that peach fuzz

>>28521575
>rifle
It's a carbine.

>>28521575
lel yea its unreliable shit compared to ak, even us soldiers throw away their shitty m4s to use AKs....

fail rifle m4 like m4 sherman was a fire trap

What is the Tavor?

Enjoy your neutered barrel lengths, or inability to OPERATE in close quarters.

>>28521575
IM ON MY SECOND CLIP
*jams
*dies

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>>28524351
>clip
>jamming meme

>>28523858
Lol, I have the furfag fox edit of this.

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C93 masterrace reporting in

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>>28524381
is he ok

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>>28523858
oh fugg

>>28524381
what the fuck is that!!

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>>28524381
He must be a wizard

>>28521575
t. US Army

>>28522840

Yes.

Alot of the more serious units may have stipulations about shit you add yourself (like being able to run a mile with your gear queered rifle up at chest level).

I'm sure if the US tried they could do a LOT better with infantry weapons
But of course, its not raelly a priority because they spend trillions on airpower to salvage battles that would otherwise be lost.

>>28522826
except it's not real DI. it's stoner gas, internal piston

I think the m4 is the best infantry rifle currently. it's accuracy, reliability, modular (which means versatile). I mean
m16
m4
m18
mk12
and variants like
hbar
port firing weapon
sr25

mean that it is pretty much perfect.

>>28521575
Very true

>>28521575
Until the LSAT program is done that is, in which case they can replace it with a rifle with similar performing ammunition that weighs 40% less and is short enough to fit into a grip inserted magazine, has a 4" longer barrel with the same magazine location (M4 size gun with an 18.5" barrel or a Mk 18 size gun with a 14.5" barrel), and completely eliminates stovepipes and failures to extract due to how it feeds.

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>>28524381
kek

>>28524391
>>28524508
That's what happens when you go into the hole.

>>28524655
>port firing weapon
oh god

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>>28521575
>tfw there will never be an M4A2 thats a mid-lenght.

k i l l m e
i
l
l

m
e

>>28524830
this

>>28524830
14.5 mid gas can short stroke depending on ammo and spring. I don't see why if the barrel stays at 14.5 it has to go to midlength. For me, at 14.5, mid length is the prettiest choice, but not necessary for a good rifle

>>28521575

How many rounds do infantry get to practise with in basic training?

I read somewhere that it was a ridiculously low number

>>28525277

Basic is the same for everyone and it's usually about 240-320 per person.

How many an 11B practices with at OSUT or his unit during marksmanship or live fire training I could not say.

>>28525417
>Basic is the same for everyone and it's usually about 240-320 per person.

Thanks anon

Thats about what I read, just seems frighteningly low

>>28521575

Why are they practicing so close to the fucking targets? Has training really gone so far downhill?

>>28525417
I shot a lot during osut.

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>>28521575
>perfect
Nope.
>excellent and better than the alternatives
Yeah, basically.

>>28526177
>marines don't clear buildings

>>28521575
Daily reminder that the SCAR is essentially the perfect infantry rifle, but the M4 that is allready issued does well enough so there is no reason to ever replace it.

>>28526177
Also, they're using their magnifiers.

>Target at 7 yards
>HOLY SHIT, LONG DISTANCE, MAGNIFIERS!!

>>28524286
whats the difference pal?

>>28526210
>flimsy stock
>pencil barre
>short foregrip
>a gorrillion dollars
Naw.

>Boohoo I have to take out my bcg and clean it after 600 rounds and that's an if.

Not knocking Gas piston but honestly DI is perfectly fine. Anyone who shits on it has their ego invested in whatever gun they have or they still believe that ARs are still Vietnam tier

>>28524771
fucking holes

>>28524771
just noticed filename. heh

>>28526240
>never noticing the piston rings inside an M4

>>28524381
All hail Supreme Leader Snoke

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>>28526327
"Supreme Leader"

>>28524381
thanks mr skeltal

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>>28524381

>>28526233

length

>>28526327
I kek'd

>>28523880
the kids at sandy hook got killed by 5.56 just fine

>>28526595
so how long is a carbine barrel?

The SCAR series is objectively better.

SOF uses the H.

>>28526946
>The SCAR series is objectively better
>SOF uses the H
>series
>SCAR H

Obviously the SCAR L isn't better otherwise they'd be using that too. And guess what, this thread is about the M4.

75th, SF, and SEALs all tested the 5.56 SCAR and didn't want it over the M4.

>>28523906
>run of the mill low quality akm
vs
>custom made premium brand

Yup that was a fair and impartial test. They could of atleast used an ak74

>>28521575
Akfag here, I agree, to an extent
>light
>modular
>accurate
>reliable
>simple design
>modular
It's not "perfect" but it's the best option right now

>>28525277
It's far far above most militaries

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>>28526983
Because 5.56 is pleb shit in anything other than suppressing fire.

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>>28524381

Wait......I thought the screen was stretched, then I realized everything else was in proportion. WTF.

>>28527085
Confirmed for retarded.

>>28527085
>Because 5.56 is pleb shit in anything other than suppressing fire
The SCAR L must REALLY be a peice of shit then.

>>28524771
Do I even want to know what that's from?

>>28527026
I agree that they should have used a higher end model of AK for the test. However, the test was supposed to test the design itself, open port in the side and all, not the quality of the particular rifle.

>>28522801

Do you mean doing away with any attachments and bringing M4A1s back to their original 90s-early 00s version, or just simplifying them?

Because I can get behind either.

>>28525417
>>28525217
This is wrong. I shot at least 800 rounds through basic in 2012 and I'm a POG. Once we got to advanced marksmanship we were at the range every fucking day. Not to mention night fire exercises.

>>28525277
Basic isn't where you learn to be an infantryman. You learn a bit at SOI or whatever the army calls their shit, then you get to your unit and spend more or less all of your time training. My experience could be different, but we would routinely spend at least 2 weeks out of a month out training and that training ranged from individual actions all the way to battalion level assaults on prepared positions. Mostly it was squad level stuff, doing foot patrols and then responding to ambushes. You'd do as many runs as you could in the day (for a simple 100 meter bounding range that takes like 5 minutes, could be like 6+ per squad) and then usually 2+ at night. For a standard squad level assault on a bunker or assaulting ambushing elements, you'd shoot between a mag or two, depending on what your role is and how long you have to suppress the enemy before you reach them, grenade them, and clear the objective. So, in a day? Maybe a couple hundred per marine. MGs and SAW gunners obviously fire more.

Generally speaking, after a 6 month work up, a marine infantryman has put an ungodly amount of ammunition through his weapon system and has worked with his squad in countless situations.

But then again, I was in when both wars were in full swing, stationed at 29 Palms (big ass empty desert, lots of live fire training areas for god damn every bit of equipment you could think of) and my command had a massive hard on for keeping us out in the desert training as much as possible. For awhile, we'd only come back to the barracks to do laundry after 2 weeks in the field then go right back out. If we had any ammo left over at the end of a training exercise, we'd just keep running the range until it was gone. Or we'd start holding little shooting comps and get people some live fire time on weapons systems they may not normally get to use, like a rifleman getting to put a few rounds through a mark 19 or M2.

tl;dr Marines shoot a shit ton, army don't know

>>28521575
The M16A4 would like to have a word...

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>>28524830
> Midlength

Military... Well known to use weapon in hostile environment.

Wanting to decrease reliability.

Pic related.

Wouldn't op8 with/8

>>28526917
you will never get an answer because >>28524286
and >>28526595 are wildly looking up google and have found, to their dismay, that there's a variety of answers and there isn't really a solid one stop answer.

>>28530025
>>28524830
legitimately curious,
but what is the science behind less reliability of a mid-length on a 14.5" barrel vs. on a 16" that's common on the civilian market?

>>28526749
I thought they were Glocked, and that dumbleass had his AR in his car but didn't use it?

>>28530048
Reduced dwell time->Reduced bcg velocity-> Reduced spring rate and buffer weight combo

Equal

Bcg suffering reduced momentum in both travel direction meaning it is now easier to be stopped by foreign matter in upper receiver such as carbon/sand/etc.

That worsen after temperature drop and ammo become weaker. Mid-length have smaller range of ammo it will reliably cycle.

There ya go middyfag

>>28524655
I wouldn't say it's the best service rifle in the world.
It's definitely the most adaptable, but it is not the best at everything.
DI is, as a trait of the design, not as reliable as a piston operated movement.
The buffer tube prevents side folding stock from being used.
As it's a conventional layout you lose a lot of velocity for the same OAL compared to bullpup configuration rifles.
5.56 is also a calibre that's lacking when in SBRs, due to it's relatively high fragmentation velocity. (5.45 is arguably a much better cartridge for SBRs due to the fact it yaws like a motherfucker regardless of barrel length.)

It's a fantastic platform, with great ergonomics, great controls, decent accuracy and it's a jack of all trades, but it's not the best there is.

>>28524304
>Day/k/are
Shouldn't you be playing the latest cowadooty?

>>28521575
>using 5.56 out of any 1:9 barrel less than 20"

Found the 11B

>>28530112
but what about the middy on a 16" barrel? Same problems?

>>28521575
well meme'd my friend :^)

>>28522801
>heavy optics
Maybe if you've got spaghetti arms

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>>28530899

>>28527107
manlet confirmed.

>>28528588
>POG
>meaning anything in boot
>counting rounds sent downrange
>ever
>night fire exercises
>in fucking boot
Nigger, WHAT?

>2012
Godfuckingdammit, I bet you went through with a fucking ACOG in boot camp so you had an easy time at the range, too.

5.56 is good enough to shoot unarmoured goatfuckers, but what if you go up against an enemy that issue body armour to its troops?

my own country switched to 5.56 a few years ago but desu it was a controversial choice. muh real fucking nato.

>>28526225

What are you talking about, they're clearly flipped out of the way.

>>28530874
It apply to 16" too.

But when shooting good ammo and kept clean middy will be 100% reliable assuming gas port is proper size even with 14.5.

I prefer to get as much reliability regardless increased recoil and negligible wear increase.

I have shot middy 14.5 pinned the recoil is ridiculously soft, its nice sweet shooter but once shit get thick and real ya know what gunna happen.

Owner of that ar told me that with tula and weak reload it will constantly short stroke

>>28528530
I just mean that I prefer a simple and light rifle with peep sights as a combat rifle, without a bunch of attachments adding weight to it.
I'm especially against anything above the handguards or anywhere towards the front of the barrel making it front heavier than it absolutely has to be. That probably the biggest offender in my eyes.
>>28530905
Go back to your bench.
Maybe I just DO regularly shoot a bit smaller than chest sized steel to 400 yards and know just how much help optics are to me shooting offhand. The weight hurts almost more than it helps, almost negligible benefits to me. I shoot better for longer without extra weight unless I can just sit comfortably and care-free on some bench, but that's boring.

>>28526225
>Magnifiers off to the side
Day/k/are

>>28531010
Hips and heads you idiot

>>28531080
soldiers are trained to hit the chest mr. idiot

>>28531063
The optic is going to make target acquisition quicker. Which is kind of important...

>>28531089
They're also trained to shoot the pelvis and head of armored targets.

>>28531063
And how are you going to ID something at 400 yards, bench-bitch?

>>28531102
> trained to shoot the pelvis and head of armored targets.
I must have missed that range day...

>>28530855
The F-16.

>>28531096
I stay on target better without.
>>28531111
Someone else can do that, I'm not going solo, just leave it off of mine.

>>28531089
But it's statistically more likely they'll hit the target if they aim at the chest than anywhere else.

No one trains their soldiers to shoot at the feet or the head. You just decrease the chance of a hit.

7.62 rifleman are trained to aim at the chest as well.

>>28531102
I don't know what weird unit you're in but the general training rule is to aim at the chest.

>>28531124
You must have. It wasn't specifically for armored targets, but it would work just as well. The drill was shoot to the chest, if that didn't work you shot them in the head, if you missed the head or couldn't shoot the head for whatever reason you shot them in the pelvic girdle.

>>28531124
>>28531168
There's a documentary with R. Lee. Ermey with a Marine LCPL showing what I'm talking about here >>28531170

>>28531151
The F-16...?

>>28531170
I learned the ones where you put two rounds in the chest and one in the head. But I'm just thinking, with an enemy that has a lot more armor in general, I think I prefer 7.62.

>>28530870
>marine
>thinks m4 is a 1:9

1:7

>>28530112
So why are 20" rifle lengths reliable then?

>>28531022
I'm pretty sure carbine length systems shit more hot gas into the action because of inreased gas system pressure and dwell time.

M4 is a good jack of trades. Despite doctrine you can tag targets out to 700m reliably and sometimes 800m although my experience the bullet either begins to tumble or I just can't hit 800m reliably. Regardless, you can reach out and touch most other people before they touch you

7.62x51 AR180 >>>>>>>>>>> .223 AR15

you can't prove me wrong

>>28524333
MAC pls go

>>28521575
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam
jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam

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>>28526193
Have I been shooting wrong my whole life or do all these guys but one have bad stance? My dad was a marine and this is how he taught me to shoot. Unless this is some spec ops shit I'm not aware of

>>28531657
Shooting with your feet squared off makes it easier to transition through a wide array of targets in front of you without disrupting your stance.

Shooting with one foot back makes it easier to move into and out of position forward and backwards and to brace against recoil (non-issue with handguns/5.56).

You pick which is more applicable in whatever particular shooting moment you find yourself in.

>>28523906
>WASR used to represent AK family

>>28531736
>A Russian made AK doesn't have the same design flaw

>>28531574
>wellest memed

Found the vatnik

>>28531341
>>28531747
What say you buddy

>>28531736
>AK used to represent AK family

>>28531657
Today most nations train troops to face their whole body against their target while hunkering down.

This is because we carry very different armor compared to back in the day and it's more effective if you get shot from the front, our sides are more vulnerable.
Another reason is that our natural fear reaction is to face threats and hunker down, having a shooting position that's close to this makes for easier/more natural training. Fight as you train, train as you fight etc.

The best shooting stance is like the best looking clothes: hot shit today, utter garbage tomorrow. Your dad probably taught you how to shoot for fun/sport/self defence, not for combat.

>>28529174

>not the M16A3

Even though the A3 isn't infantry stuff.

>>28531657

What >>28531727 said.

Also to my knowledge standing squared to your target like that also presents the most of your armor. If you stand bladed, your sides will be exposed.

>>28523880

>m855 w-was designed t-to w-wound...

>>28531168
>>28531170
Even the instructors appearing on the sportsman channel will say [using a handgun for CC/HD] "if you can't penetrate the armor, aim for the head or pelvis."

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>>28524286

It's a pickup truck not an automobile

That's how dumb you sound

>>28524374

He could have a California or new York compliant AR where he has to break open the rifle and load the magazine with a stripper clip

>>28521575
SHALL NOT BE DIRECT IMPINGED

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>>28523880
>I'm sorry, but it's not as reliable as an ak

You're right. It's more reliable :^)
https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU

inb4 b-but that ak isnt an 1100 dollar arsenal! There's no way you could expect it to function properly!

>>28524304
Us soldiers right?

>>28531874
b-but that ak isnt an 1100 dollar vepr! There's no way you could expect it to function properly!

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>>28531815
I know you meant well trying to call that other anon out, but you apparently don't know shit about ARs. That's cool.

While yes, in the regular firearms terminology, a carbine is a type of rifle, when your in the AR world, carbine and rifle have different meanings.

Now far be it from me to stop you from shit posting, hell, taking my trip off and shit posting throughout the day makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. But you really need to get your own shit in line before trying to bitch about definitions of shit.

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>>28521575
Newfag here

Are those guys marines? Why is that guy closest to the camera wearing a plate carrier AND another vest underneath?
Also, are they using famas's?

>>28522818
That is why the german H&K M416 is actually the superior carbine.
I mean it's based of the american design but it was perfected and never jams.
Doesn't matter if you put it under water, mud or sand. It just doesn't.
The american M4 has the pioneering concept though.

>>28531574
This isn't the ak thread friend

>>28521575
Direct Impingement Small Arms will stop working when atmospheric conditions change in a few years due to global warming. Mark my words.

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>>28532016

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>>28532016
Thank god, that would mean AR18 will finally take its rightful place as our main service rifle and all the /arg/ manchildren literally kill themselves for all intensive porpoises.

>>28531010
Which country?

>>28532092
Why does it look like that lower was made in my uncle's garage?

>>28532614
Because that's basically how they're made

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to the retards ITT who doubt the m4, if it isn't the best gun in the world, why does the US army use it?

>>28532704
Economics, you dolt.

>>28532704
the M4 is basically the mcdonalds of firearms, it's effective for it's cheapness and ability to kill ragheads with no armor in the desert. just wait until america has to face china or russia, military is going to be pissed when they need to mess up all their logistics just to be able to consistently kill the enemy with 7.62

>>28531505
Yeah but the increased momentum created from the higher pressure that he mentioned earlier makes the reliability increase do to the shear violence of movement.

>>28533539
Shut the fuck up already you no gunz faggot. 7.62 ball will not penetrate SAPI any better than 5.56

>>28521575
Where can i get one of those neat looking grey jackets?

>>28533738
provide proof or you're just shitposting

>>28521575
I wish I got given this instead of the L85A2.

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>>28521575

>>28521575
>ever

It's based now but it will eventually be obsolete

>>28533751
There are literally dozens of videos on YouTube about the subject. You're the one claiming we will need to switch to 7.62, show me proof 7.62 can penetrate a lvl 4 plates.

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>>28531574
nice meme

>>28522826
M4s have Pistons dipshit

>>28523906
Kill yourself

>>28524381
Mmmmmm Your mom must be tight as shit

>>28524374
I would like to know how when I cleaned my M4A1 twice daily, it always did a fucking doublefeed by the 3rd mag.
I mean c'mon, it was 2013!

>>28531211
>MFW a manlet can't even carry one of the lightest 4th gen fighters

>>28525277
Literally every cycle of BCT and every actual unit is different.
I went through in 09 and shot at the qualification range only, we zero'D and qual'D same day, we were limited to two attempts at each to pass, and they only allowed us to train that one day on firearms. Afterwards my first unit I never once saw a range. Second and third units, went to the range monthly, fourth unit went to the range 2x month

>>28526177
>what are battledrills for $5 trebeck

>>28530870
Jesus Christmas what the fuck US military AR uses a 1:9 twist?

>>28531986
This,, they're fucking amazing,

>>28532092
What are the ones used in Bradley that screw into the gunner ports on the side and have an insane rate of fire?

>>28534462
CAR-15?

>>28534462
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M231_Firing_Port_Weapon

>>28533750
Anybody?

>>28521575
It needs to be updated with a two-piece monolithic design. Do away with the weak points that way.

Really, the military needs to find a new design that retains the AR15's controls and modularity, while covering all NATO cartridges for their intended roles.

Parts commonality and versatility are key. Streamlining the logistics behind small arms should be the military's top priority. We don't need any more tanks, aircraft, or bombs.

Calvary is the future of conventional warfare. Why? Speed kills and Momentum wins, that's why.

>>28534529
I wonder if any of those were re-appropriated for use in urban combat in Iraq after 2001...

>>28533628
Yeah but that would mean increased fouling and a hotter bcg. Hot bcg means the oil will burn off and a lubeless ar is a sad ar.

>>28536462
I remember a guy in an old unit I was in when I was in the service who told me about them from when he was a cave scout and that they'd pull them when they went to dismount patrol from their Bradley on the rare occasion, he said they're damn near impossible to keep on target due to their rate of fire

>>28531857
Good thing the M16/M4 isn't really DI then.

>>28531483
Big ass gas port and heavy ass buffer.

>>28531505
Exactly retard!

I never said otherwise.

>>28534260
Its out if spec magazine 's fault ya dingus

>>28530112
Hooooly shit you are illiterate.

>>28536560
Ya retarded. After magdumping like 5mag my bcg get warm thats it and i use thick motor oil or mpro 7 that doesn't burn off easy like garbage remoil or clp. Not to mention i applied moly grease at rail contact points.

Hot bcg doesn't transfer to the upper meaning upper will still retain oil/grease and thank to great heat dissipating properties of aluminum any heat transferred to the upper is quickly spread and burn point for oil was never reached.

Plus even when theres zero lubrication carbine gassed 14.5 or 16 already violent action doesnt actually need lube.

The very first 500rounds fired through my build was fucking bone dry not even on drop of any kind lubrication. Guess what it operated reliably and that was with weaker loaded ammo (tula)

>>28539094
Gr8 b8 m8

>>28539120
>That worsen after temperature drop and ammo become weaker.
Eh...yeah. "Bait."

>>28521575
It's objectively the worst option in terms of reliability: http://archive.armytimes.com/article/20071217/NEWS/712170314/Newer-carbines-outperform-M4-dust-test

• XM8: 127 stoppages.
• MK16 SCAR Light: 226 stoppages.
• 416: 233 stoppages.
• M4: 882 stoppages.

>>28539209
https://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

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>>28531986
>piston AR
>good

>>28539258
>magazine
"It is filthy because it has been shot at class. Only at class."

Complete shit data. Read my link again.

>>28539108
I would really have to see this for myself, if this magical never fail lube was so great why doesn't everybody use it?
Btw you're retarded you lanza looking mother fucker.

>>28530025

>negative/reverse green texting
>saying retarded bullshit

Reminder to kill yourself

>>28539305
>40,000 rounds without cleaning
>hurr durr don't count

>>28534598
......fucking no one knows what or where to get one?

Seriously?

>>28531897
yer an idiot

>>28539209
Speaking of XM8, where would I buy one if I was interested?

>>28533751

burden of proof is on you

lrn in2 order of things

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>>28539491
No civilian version, closest available pictured.

>>28539372
" It has been lubed generously with Slip 2000 Extreme Weapons Lube (EWL)."

Literally soaked in lube.

Literally not being put through a real world test.

Literally wasting my time responding to you.

BTW the M4's used in the dust test were only able to stay in the dust test because Colt interjected and soaked them with lube.

So that's last place even after cheating.

>>28539547
Ooh lawdy. That is not worth the cost.

>>28539625
It's historically interesting, at least.

The XM8 is basically just a reskinned G36. During the '94 AWB they wanted to sell a civvie version in the US and had to rebuild it as the SL8 to get around that.

>>28531545

I'd have to look for the exact multiple but you can carry way more rounds of 5.56 for any given weight than 7.62. Also good luck trying to have private babby arms control a 7.62 offhand in full auto.

>>28526917
Notably shorter than the length of the barrel of the rifle it is based on

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>>28539761

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id rather have an 18 inch 6mm with a nice rail and 1-6 optic though. shooting some 95 or 107 grain smk's would put me in eternal bliss. fuck the f-35 lets get some tier 1 rifles, optics and ammo to our marines. army you keep m4s.

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>>28539893
>this nigga gets it

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>>28539209
You're so wrong some anon proved you wrong over a year ago

>>28523906
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnTdQ0_ejJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdIAtk75hnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfUOfDcLX0I
How many rounds will the AR make it through while pouring shit in the open action as it is shot?

>>28541250
>Rifle fails to fire a full burst.
>Buttmad AR fags insist it's a feature.

>>28530988
I'm fairly certain we did night fire at PI in 02. May be mixing memories with SOI though.

I distinctly remember the tracers and thinking it looked like star wars.

>>28541648
>Army's shifting everyone to M4A1s anyways
>Implying the test with a burst sear matter anymore

>>28521575
Daily reminder that something such as the M4 is still flawed to have poor gas ventilation and charging mechanism can only change fire selection with round present in chamber.

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>>28543791
The gas system ports most of the dirty gas out the ejection port; what's left doesn't really affect function that much. In trade you get perfectly linear recoil, increasing accuracy.

Do you mean the position of the charging handle? Because it might be a bit odd for some but it's fine.

A lot of weapons can't be set to safe when the hammer is down. You shouldn't be loading without it charged and on safe to start with, dipshit, you don't need to chamber a round to put it on safe.

>>28521575
>>28521594
>>28522801
>>28522869
Direct Impengement is a flaw. its fucking dirty. Piston driven is the best system, not just saying that about AKs.

>>28544204
The stoner design is a piston. . .

>>28530855
It doesn't have to be the best at everything to be the best. It just has to be better than the competition.
Bullpups are heavy and have shit triggers and typically disallow support side shooter and are a fuck you to lefties.
Ak pattern rifles, sig rifles, ak5, might have folding stocks, but the receiver is also longer, so stock extended, the oal isn't any better.

Stoner gas is a 100% reliable system. The filthy 14 is a great example of this. Also, unlike aks, ar15s are a sealed system. With the dust cover up a magazine in the gun, there's not an easy way into the rifle for sand, unlike ak47s, which is why all these recent threads about aks failing torture tests have been popping up. Those are troll as fuck threads, the ak is a excellent system, but the concept of internal pistol being unreliable is flat out wrong.

The real problem with stoner gas is that the gas tube length now plays into recoil impulse and the cycling of the action. It's not something for the end user to worry about, but if the military wants to try a certain length of barrel for the new m4 in between 20 and 14.5, they'd need a new gas tube for optimal performance. The market has already developed that, but regardless, it's criticism of the system.
Also that bit about sbrs assume m193 or m855 ammunition from the 60s and 80s. Just like 9mm, modern ammunition has greatly increase the efficiency of the 5.56 caliber. Heavy 75 or 77 grain bullets still perform incrediblely well. The new m855a1 is perfect for 14.5 inch barrels and initial reports over the last 5 years indicate a performance boost.

The m4 is the best choice for an infantry rifle currently. It finally shoots a kickass load, it can accept grenade launchers and bayonets, it's a good length for mounted or urban operations while still killing @ 500 yards, low recoil, flat top excellent for keeping the same sight picture between optics and buis, and modular.

>>28543606
>Still side stepping a fucking failure.

>>28524655
*Iver Johnson Gas

>>28524381
Certified high speed/low drag operator

>>28544204
Good thing the AR isn't DI then.

>>28544538
No worse than any other contemporary rifle, plus the design is lighter and durable with less bullshit pre-installed.

>>28521585
>>STG44
>>Breaks

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Y'all still mad?

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>>28544743

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>>28524381
He looks like those skinny fucks from the expanse lol

>>28545088
Nice demonstration on how the linear in-carrier gas piston functions. In DI the gas directly strikes a cup at the top of the carrier and pushes it rearward.

>>28541648
Read it again retard. Thats not what happened. The rifle doesn't fire the full burst unless you hold the trigger down, if you release it early it won't reset the burst mechanism either. The FCG didn't fail, the operator's doing the testing didn't know how to fire the fucking gun.

>>28545138
Holy shit you are stupid.

>>28546117
Yes that's it. The Army didn't know how to fire the gun they've been using for the past 50 years.

>>28545138
That's the piston champ. . . .

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>>28545138

>>28546230
The ar 15 is a piston driven system, it is not a pure DI gun. I think an example of the is the French Mas 58 .

>>28546230
Only real DI weapon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAS-49_rifle

The AR system is a gas piston, you idiot. The gas is directed into an expansion chamber that uses the pressure to expand the piston chamber until the venting ports on the side of the carrier are exposed. DI is completely different, and uses direct rearward pressure from the gas tube to force the bolt assembly out of battery.

>>28528961
Well you're the first infantryman that I've ever heard of shooting that much in a work up.

>Be me at 2D Recon
>shooting package time
>get to range with 9 other gents
>"how much ammo we shooting?"
>gunny just says "70,000 rounds"
>WUT

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>>28546240
>>28546289
>>28546303

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>>28546314
>>28546334
>semantics

now we know you're just an autistic idiot trying to be correct on the internet

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>>28546355
>HURR DURR ACCURATE TERMINOLOGY IDDNT IMPORTANT

>>28546374
>outdated examples of technology
>relevant to discussion of modern usage

the only retard here is you. It's the equivalent of showing up to brunch in a morning suit and getting mad at everyone else for wearing business casual.

>>28546240
Yeah, pretty fucking much. You obviously haven't been in the fucking Army.

>>28526749
Sandy hook is fake

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>>28546446
>Has no valid counterargument on DI vs piston
>instead makes simpleton insults to try to make up for it

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>>28546314
God damn you are stupid

>>28546374
It's not accurate at all.

>>28524381
Thought it was shop until I saw his neck thing

>>28524621
>how cum jets cost more den people?
No shit sherlock it's a giant metal object that flies and drops explosives within 5 meters of target also what is combined arms tactics for 500 alex?

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>>28547977
This is a Ljungman AG42 rifle. It is a direct impingement system.

Gas travels directly into the bolt carrier in order to unlock and cycle it. this is the gun equivilent of 'shitting where it eats'.

the Ar 15, shown in
>>28545088

is an in-carrier gas piston. Notice how the gas intentionally travels inside of the bolt carrier to function it. This ensures no gas is in the chamber curing cycling. the bolt of an Ar-15 has an O-ring to maintain said seal.

In fact, the bolt carrier also has drilled holes so said gas is ejected out the side of the bolt (same side as brass extraction) to ensure that no gas is left inside of the bolt.

You are a retard.

>>28547977
>Doesn't say Direct Impingement
>Thinks this is proofs

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A good example of why military's around the globe have switched to a 5.x mm chamber. Not to mention that you can carry more ammunition by far versus say 30-06, 7.62x39, or 300. The major benefits of the Armalite Model 15 (M16, M4, ect.) is that there are multiple manufacturers; you have dead on mil-spec but also civilian and custom, a plethora of third party support, and a weapon whose modular design allows for full customization to suit both user and application. Perfect? Hardly... But it IS the perfect infantry rifle due to its affordability, parts availability, ease of use, and massive third party support. The currently isn't another rifle to compare.

As for the direct impingement versus gas piston argument...there are two factors that make the piston system vastly superior but not necessarily a requisite.
1. DI systems MUST have a wet bolt. Period. Almost all feed issues regarding AR's cycling the proper munitions is due a dry bolt carrier group.
2. The obvious, contamination. Piston systems stay cleaner longer and also run cooler longer.

For average Joe at the gun range these don't matter. Any respectable AR owner will clean and oil the bolt after use. No such thing as over oiling it unless your submerging the system in a vat of the stuff.

>>28548154
This argument is complete shit and semantics at best. Almost NO ONE outside of autistic man children and Eugene Stoner (who was trying to get a patent) believe this.

EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD refers to pistons as pic related.

Theres as many pistons in the AG42 as there are in the AR platform, ZERO.

I bet you're the type of faggot that think traps are women.

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>>28548823
Forgot pic related

>>28524381
From here to the stars,
With my candy bars,
Rides a kid
With a knack
For inventions.

A super-powered mind,
A mechanical canine,
He rescues the day
From sure destruction.

He's gotta save the world
And get to school on time,
So many things to do
And not much time

So off the ground,
Up in the air,
Out into the atmosphere,

Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!

No matter where you are,
You know he can't be far,
Watching the world
Through x-ray vision

And whenever he's around,
Where adventure can be found,
You know that Jimmy Neutron's
On a mission

He's gotta save the world
And get to school on time,
So many things to do
And not much time

So off the ground,
Up in the air,
Out into the atmosphere,

Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
Jimmy Neutron!
Who can we count on?
It's Jimmy Neutron!

>>28548551
No, most feeding issues are bad magazines.

>>28548849
>>28548823
Except your jpg is inaccurate about the internal workings of the AR-15.

>>28548930
Yeah I know, and it's not supposed to be.

Look at the piston portion of it.

>>28523880
>>28523880
I know this is bait but
>bigger bullets
Good thing modern AKs shoot smaller bullets than an AR

>>28521575

Get a slightly larger projectile and I'll agree.

>>28521575
The 5.56's optimum barrel length for ballistic performance is roughly 20 inches. The extremely short barrel of the M4 wastes much of the ballistic potential of the round.
If you want a shorter gun, you need a bullet designed for it. The 5.56 isn't appropriate for a barrel of that length.

>>28526749
>people died in Sandy Hook

>>28530988
>>night fire exercises
>>in fucking boot
>Nigger, WHAT?
Army intel here, did reflexive fire, night fire, live fire convoy with dismount etc. in both basic and AIT.

>>28548823
>>28548849
>Still being this mad that you're wrong

>>28549290
For combat purposes in typical sub-300m engagement ranges with the right ammo (M855A1, for instance) it doesn't matter.