Well who wins /k/? Both dropped into an urban environment the size of a village. US troops can take any kit they want with them excluding anything aerial and have no support.
INTEL, MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ITS IMPORTANCE?
A straight shooting match goes to the Krauts in daylight and the Amis at night. But what does each side know? Why are they there; what are they trying to accomplish?
There's a huge number advantage on the German side, but they're still using an outdated doctrine with most of their troops probably carrying K98s. Standard US infantrymen would be equipped with automatics, advanced body armor, and enhanced optics, meaning they're likely to kill multiple people in an ambush.
That said, it really comes down to tactics in this fight. If the Wehrmacht can isolate or pin down soldiers with a few troops, they can probably maneuver and surround them. Once the mobility of the US soldiers is compromised, it'd be a matter of flushing them out with grenades or a flamethrower. If the US forces were special forces and trained in guerrilla warfare such as creating ambush points and traps such as mines, they might be able to reduce the German numbers down to something more manageable.
The only real equipment advantage they would have is the ACOG on their rifle, and the rifle itself depending on how you look at it.
American infantry has a high probability of being composed of various flavors of undisciplined subhuman mongrels that no training could ever help, and only has recent experience fighting other subhumans. The Germans would almost certainly win under any circumstances.
>Why are they there; what are they trying to accomplish?
You're not supposed to think about this any harder than the OP did.
So in other words, don't use your brain for this question whatsoever.
Modern soldiers would win in urban combat even if outnumbered. WW2 regulars weren't trained in specifically urban combat. Armor will take most immediately incapacitating shots from a SMG or pistol (even if fatally wounded, still able enough to finish the fight). Bolt actions a shit for CQB. Night makes it easy mode.
>The only real equipment advantage they would have is the ACOG on their rifle
>fuck night vision
>fuck grenade launchers
>fuck efficient radio communication
>only scopesssses matter guise COD4
>American infantry has a high probability of being composed of various flavors of undisciplined subhuman mongrels
>not our pure bred beautiful germans
Under Patton's 3rd army soldiers routinely went up against defending forces 5 times greater there own. Leadership is most important in the outcome of any battle. The second most important factor in a fictitious one on one engagement like this would likely be body armor. If neither side has any fire support all casualties will have to be caused by either small arms or grenades (maybe a small amount by mines and rocket launchers). IOTV stops both of these threats with incredible effectiveness.
Well, if air support is not a factor, I'd bet on the Wehrmacht here. Small arms technology hasn't advanced that much since late WWII (which these German soldiers are from, judging from their equipment. I don't think there is a huge disparity in training or experience, and while the US soldiers have better optics and body armor, I don't think that alone is enough to make up for being outnumbered 5 to 1.
Do either know of the others position? Is one dropped behind defenses and the other to capture it? Are they all dropped randomly like 5:1 in each corner or what the fuck is going on here OP.
This isnt call of duty man. When exactly in the engagement do you expect these guys to set up claymores? Claymores are for defending a fixed position; if they're just dropped into a city, no one is defending, it's all offense
LET'S FIND OUT IN YOUR SIMULATOR DESIGNED BY SLYTHERIN STUDIOS!
Post youtube videos and gets free food from Denny's.
Bypassing pointless defensive walls since 1940.
WHO! IS! DEADLIEST!
>5v5, probably some French Town somewhere.
>Wouldn't be the first time a foreign military was in France. Probably wont be the last
>Wehrmacht goose stepping around
>Soldiers being really tactical, spacing, slicing the pie...the pie the French gave them to stop trying to ride their pigs.
>Wehrmacht see Soldiers
>Start firing MP-40.
>Soldier gets hit and goes down. Soldiers fire back.
>Manages to kill 1
>Wehrmacht works the bolt, hitting a Soldier in the chest. Goes back to taking cover behind a French farmer's house
>Soldier, against ROE, sprays the French farmer's house.
>5.56 penetrates the house and kills both the farmer and Wehrmacht
>3v3...+1? Court Martial. Local populace demand US forces be removed.
>Wehrmacht with an STG-44 starts to assault a Soldier position. Soldiers quickly call in CAS
>Soldier just blind fires M4 over a wall, killing him. The CAS misses its target and kills a Soldier. A-10 Pilot paints Swastika kill marker. Media and UN in uproar.
>Soldier guns down a Wehrmacht with an M9, attempts to loot the Luger then forgets Spoils Of War no longer exists (WHICH IS BULLSHIT)
>Wehrmacht guns down Soldier with an MG42 assault fire. Soldier with a SAW fires back and misses.
>Both run out of ammo. Hit nothing.
>EVERY EPISODE ENDS LIKE THIS.
>Both take swings and miss. Both get a few glancing blows from their knives
>Wehrmacht tosses his HitlerJugend, quickly pulls the red hot MG-42 barrel out , swinging it at the Soldier
>Soldier goes down.
>Wehrmacht stands victorious.
>Labcoat guy: The Germans had more kill shots...6 million right? Uhh can I say that on TV?
>Wehrmacht Expert: Karl from Forgotten Weapons?!
>Soldier Expert: Still fucking with the French farm animals.
In any scenario OP the side to maintain a good defensive position always has a slight advantage. Better gear is what breaks defenses. If the US fortifies its position or makes use of great cover, 4 is enough to cover each sector. The Wermacht will have to work to draw fire from all 4 members using maybe 8 of its own, while the remaining 12 work their way into 1 US soldiers sector, once his defense is compromised, the remaining might not have an option but to die. However, if US forces can fall back onto a 2nd defensesive position, the Wehrmacht would need to once again focus on breaking that defense. However they have given up their position, and may have lost troops. The US might still be outnumbered, but now knows the Germans plan. A counter attack maybe be in order. With Wehrmacht soldiers spread out,positions revealed, its easier to pick them off.
Of course implying US soldiers survived the first wave
Us soldiers should have night vision, weapon lights, lasers, body armor, magnified optics, radios, under slung Nade launchers, and a saw.
The Heer would have at best the stg44, mg43, stick grenades, and steel helmet.
In an urban environment. The US team uses the night to take full advantage of superior vision and communication. The germans would have to know enemy capability and how to best adapt to minimize their disadvantages.
The US should win it in one hard night of operating.
Doesn't specify what they are armed with, either. Are we talking late or early war Wehrmacht? Eastern or western front? Were they lucky enough to get a crate full of sturmgewehrs, or they making do with older weapons?
They can dig in its a big place. They dont instantly know where each other is.
>Set up firebase
>Claymore obvious entry points
>Have one solider with silence DMR overwatching certain entry points
>M240 at a chokepoint
>Those 4 soldiers have more firepower and ammo than the 20 Germans
>wait til night when thermals and NVG's give you a 100:1 advantage
>set up claymores, flare traps, and other shit all over
Sure maybe if you stuck 5 female POGs with bare rifles and just their uniforms against 20 Wehrmact, it'd be in the Germans' favor, but damn.
>literal 200:1 campaign
>let's take away the ONE weapon that can reliably penetrate soft armor while fighting guys wearing soft armor!
Yeah...don't think volume of fire would help them against people wearing armor capable of 100% reliably stopping the rounds contained in that volume of fire. That would basically mean the US soldiers are only capable of being incapacitated by a face/upper neck shot or a lucky thigh shot that gets the femoral. Compared to 8mm mauser which will reliably penetrate anything but the rifle plates.
>Wehrmacht carrying 20 stripper clips
...they carried 12. They only had 60 fucking rounds man.
Also US doctrine is AT LEAST 7 full mags. Basic load is 210 rounds. And they're free to carry more if they'd like. Not to mention the M203 gunner and the SAW gunner, and probably at least 1 guy with an AT4 or SMAW, with the possibility of everybody carrying a LAW.
>one hard night of operating.
Or one competently placed m203 grenade, since Wehrmact small-unit tactics, especially in urban areas, was to cluster up.
>hey Hans, how far do you think zee Amerikani jaegers can throw a grenade
>Not sure Ernst, but surely not 100m..
>...well shite Hans.
>the German army of less than 70,000 killed, as confirmed by both sides, over 2 million Soviet soldiers
>the German army didn't kill 100% of the Soviet army
Care to do the math on that one champ?
yeah, at the very least- normally only one guy is gonna have the SAW, hence the name Squad Automatic Weapon
I'd probably take an M4 with a 203 underbarrel launcher just because of the weight
Why do so many of you guys assume that the US soldiers would be better at CQC than the Germans?
Wehrmacht fought for every inch against opponents that were also skilled in CQC (Soviets) but that had more manpower and equipment in Stalingrad, Berlin, Breslau etc.
US soldiers might have kicked down some doors in a mudhut belonging to a goatfucking dirtfarmer as their prime achievement in CQC,
Hard to say, the Germans might be better equip (definitely better trained) than some of the dune coons we fought in Afghan and we had support fighting them. The numbers could make all the difference in this case. I'd go with the Germans as long as they have access to everything the Wehrmacht had and not just KAR98 rifles. If you give the Americans 6 more guys or maybe a MRAP, the Germans probably wouldn't stand a chance.
>can take any kit they want
Hell even going by normal US doctrine that's 1 rifleman, a SAW gunner, and 2 grenadiers (1 normal and one FT leader). So 4 M4's, 2 m203's/m320's, and 1 SAW. SAW gunner also carries an M9, FT leader -might- have an M9
Now let's break it down. Going solely by doctrinal basic load that's ~1200 rounds of belted 5.56, (3x7 minimum) 630 rounds in 21, 30rd mags of 5.56, 2x6 HEDP and 2x4 "other" 40mm grenades, either 4 or 8 15rd 9x19 mags, plus the possibility of an AT4/SMAW-D/2 LAW's. Also, everybody (is supposed to) carry 2x frag grenades.
>total: 1890-2050 rds rifle/pistol ammo plus at least 12 and up to 24 projectile explosives and 16 hand grenades
Now with 20 Germans...
German doctrine was 1 GPMG (either MG34 or MG42) per 8-man squad. There will be 3 8-man squads plus a pair of floaters. So that's 3x400rds linked 8mm mauser. Squad leaders typically had either an MP40 or StG. So that's 3x (5x30) 150, so 450 rounds of either 8mmKurz or 9x19. Everybody else, so 14 people, get 60rds of 8mm mauser on stripper clips for a total of 840rds. Give the squad leaders and MG gunners a Walther P38, so 6x3x8rd mags for 144rds of 9x19. I have no idea on doctrine regarding hand grenades so give everybody 2 just for brevity.
>total of 2634 rounds of rifle/pistol ammo and 40 hand grenades, no projectile explosives
Going on basic load they're surprisingly close. Closer than I thought they'd be.
Yall didn't forget about muh MG-42 right ? , 20 UberMensch Soldats , gotta be atleast one , with a heap of ammo shared between the riflemen.
Or did we forget that the German doctrine of the time was that the rifleman supported the MG not the other way around.
>US gets MRAP or up-armored humvee
>normal german platoon didn't carry anti-armor anything, they had dedicated anti-armor platoons
So the US just runs them over and wins without firing a shot. That's a bit one-sided for a thought experiment.
Also I'm pretty sure a PanzerShrek or PanzerFaust wouldn't hard-kill an MRAP, and they didn't have -anything- better other than 1 model of AT mine.
That's still only 4 MG's. Great for mowing down soviet conscripts in pre-determined killing funnels, shit at urban warfare considering they were designed to be emplaced positions and not highly mobile.
The US guys will fail because they will have a harder time doing the basic thing to win in combat, move and fire.
In addition with only 4 guys all it takes is one of them being downed and 25% of their firepower is gone, if the SAW gunner is hit it would be even worse.
Remember that even derkas have managed to wipe squads of US soldiers despite being the shittiest fighters on the planet.
guys with M4s and SAWs have more firepower than 20 guys with StG 44s and MG 42s
>They specifically stop multiple hits from ARMOR PIERCING .30-06
This is incorrect.
The false information on this thread alone is astounding. No wonder we can't have a real discussion about this.
Apparently one MG-42 for each US soldier is not enough , even with support from three other soldiers armed with K-98s and StG-44s.
America has the true Ubermensch Soldat.
Laughs in the face of sustained 7.92X57mm at 1200+ RPM.
>muh claymore mines
4 Soldiers from a Rifle Platoon are NOT going to be carrying claymores, if you want to talk explosives, at least make it 4 assault pioneers vs 20 Wehrmacht Sappers.
Now that's out of the way, the Wehrmacht would probably win, unless they're really really stupid or late war platoon filled with replacements, the young, the old or the wounded.
*coughs* Issued with a K98 , that is why they grabbed any and all reliable automatics they could get their hands on , such as PpSch-41 and M1928A1/M1A1 Thompsons.
And let us not forget all those Czech weapons that were captured , like the Brens chambered in 7.92X57mm and M1918s.
>What's the size of the village? When you consider that a village can consist from some tens of citizens to couple thousand it's not very clear.
>How's the village built and are the troops restricted to the village area?
>Are germans restricted to equiment visible in picture?
>Are US troops marines or army even?
These threads are so gay.
At least the MP40 and K98 won't jam as often.
>nearly 150 replies in and not a single person has answered the question
>it's just a giant circlejerk argument about what equipment each side has
They could bring as many claymores as they fucking wanted, at most they'll kill 1 or 2 when they enter whatever building. Then the germans chuck an SHG in every window and it's bye bye
I'm pretty sure a panzerfaust could score a hard kill on an MRAP 200mm armor penetration and the overpressure generated by a kilo of pentol is pretty lethal. Also slat armor would be rendered useless by its base detonated fuze.
So does "kit" cover vehicles in US military lingo ?
When I was in the Australian Army 2001-2004 , kit was gear.
being things you could carry or potentially attach to things you could ride.
Except an IOTV with no plates will eat fire form any machine pistol for breakfast.
It's actually the worst choice of weapons they could bring, aside from throwing away the K98s for pistols.
This is easy as shit
>US soldiers bring up a white flag and surrender
>When the Germans capture them pull up a laptop and show them the modern state of Germany
>Germans kill themselves
US soldiers win
Whoa , dude , using an IR lamp scope , you turn your sneaky sneaky in the dark scope into a massive target if the US troops are using passive image intensification NVG.
The IR lamp needed for the Vampir to work would look like a search light through modern NVG.
>giving WWII era Wehrmacht soldiers access to the greatest repository of knowledge the human race has ever known, including detailed documentation of the war they are currently participating in
Surely, nothing bad could come from this.
Yes the slat would cause it to detonate at a further distance but even with a 50% drop in penetration would still possibly penetrate. Also rendered ineffective was a bad choice of words on my part. The main purpose of slat armor is to damage the piezoelectric fuse on the warheads of rpgs not act as standoff armor.
>The main purpose of slat armor is to damage the piezoelectric fuse on the warheads of rpgs not act as standoff armo
But this is wrong.
One of the main things slat armor does is carve up incoming RPG warheads. If you'd ever seen what happens to an RPG after it hits slat armor, you'd understand this - it literally shreds them like a cheese grater.
But go ahead and pretend that the odds of a slat perfectly striking a warhead's detonator are more likely if it makes you feel better. You probably get all of your info from videogames anyway and are immune to the real world at this point.
So you're telling me the guy who invented the silencer didn't know the correct terminology?
Sometimes I feel like hitting my head against a brick wall would be more productive than going on /k/
Clearly the Wehrmacht - the size advantage is insurmountable, how can this be discussed? "Village" is a shitty description of an AO but if we're talking about a small, podunk farming village then we can assume some pretty wide sightlines, and if we restrict combat to being -within- the village then it'll be a very quick engagement.
Regardless of any individual disparities between equipment, 4 men are not going to be able to achieve fire superiority against 20, unless each one is carrying a goddamn SAW at the lightest - but that's getting into autistic rambo territory.
They are going to die like bitches as rifle fire comes from multiple directions with mixed in automatic fire from MPs, STGs, and MG34/MG42s. They'll surely kill a few of them, but as their attention is occupied they'll be gunned down from another direction.
Why is this being discussed? The situation offers 0 tactical flexibility, it's just a stand-up gunfight, and numbers matter in those.
There's no fucking way in hell you could call Mogadishu a "Village," reread the OP.
Plus that was with CAS, up-armored vehicles and mounted weaponry, involving Rangers and SFOD-D - hardly typical Soldiers. In the given scenario the things that make modern-day soldiers more effective than their historical counterparts is mostly negligible, given the lack of an extreme tech gap.
2 Wehrmacht vs 20 US soldiers.
Fuck dude the Wehrmacht were ready to be soldiers since child education and have a very good training. The US soldiers are learning 3 months how to not shoot themselves and survive enough time against shitty civilians with Ak till the bombs come.
Remember that this:
You didn't specify what U.S. soldiers op. If its a team of navy seals, who routinely operate while outnumbered, then the germans are gonna get raped.
>advanced firearm optics
The Germans don't stand a chance if the seals have proper leadership and its gonna be even better at night.
a couple tanks and handful of hitler youth stalled the entire British army for over a week at Caen
in one engagement near berlin, 4 Tiger IIs destroyed over 130 soviet heavy tanks
the professionalism of the nazers was pretty high
No need to be so upset buddy.
As you stated slat starts to deform the warhead and ultimately stops it from detonating damaging the fuse or the fuses ability to detonate the charge ( your stated cheese grater effect). Talking about the panzershreick ammunition the slat would have a similar effect however my initial point that I'll admit I didn't explain well it's that the panzerfaust uses a base detonated inertia fuse. As soon as the projectile began to slow from meeting the slats resistance the striker would move forward detonating the charge.
I'll be honest, if the engagement is not at night, and close quarters, it's likely the modern guys would lose. Even if everyone isn't just outright killed, but they'd certainly be forced to retreat.
Thermals may be a bit of a different issue, but since it's urban ranges anyway eyes are very viable. It would be messy, people would get killed, I'd wager more snazzys would die than the US guys, but I doubt the US dudes would win.
Agreed on all points, I just dislike the idea that the two forces could pick and choose their conditions. That's not how these sorts of things work. Under doctrine, US Army would never engage a numerically superior force period. At best they'd set up an OP near them and drop fire/air support on their heads, but never a direct engagement.
The Nazis would put more thought into attacking any position they found than simply "Yeah send like 20 dudes at it," even if it's only "yeah send like 20 dudes and a few half-tracks at it."
lol at 1488 No. OP nice get
Anyway most american infantry men the standard cant do shit without support especially when pinned down like they seem to often get. Everyone keeps saying superior equipment well they struggle to kill dune coons with soviet AKs and call support every 3 minutes. many soldiers REALLY REALLY dont want to fight and even MORE dont want to die. The Wehrmacht did not give a FUCK if they dropped dead in battle. End of it.
When we get some nationalism quit following the UN for everything and being cucks I will change my opinion.
Yeah but no situation was specified, that's why I'm saying at night the ball is in the modern court, nazis have no form of technology to adequately counter, and any form of illumination they have access to would blare their position to the moderns.
At day the numbers make the case, the special tech tricks are evened out, and the modern equipment, while giving a solid edge man for man, likely wouldn't be able to make up for the odds.
Because no specific situation was specified it makes sense to discuss both day and night as viables, if the moderns can't pick it at night, the nazis can't pick it at day, vice versa.
Sure, no problem with any of that. I thought that when you posted >>28523852 you were implying that the modern forces would somehow be able to hold the initiative in any case, which I drew umbrage with.
In the day it would go to the Snazziboos, in the night it would go the Americans.
Basically OP was shit and he should feel like shit.
These people CRY and pout and fear everything and come back and scream PTSD PTSD PTSD after hearing guns be fired far away. Literally they would drop their guns and take off.
>Large scaled taliban force
>spot the civilian
The seals are tough VERY tough but open field battle if numbers are against you and you have no tactical points in terrain your done.
I love the US military i think 4 nam or korea soldiers would hold steady against the wehrmacht I would say even the americans from the revolution with muskets would hold steady. Mentality and how bad YOU WANT TO WIN is everything. you gotta think now we got women in combat roles, lack of moral, no one wants to fight, patriotism is dying, and most people grew up being babied.
Then that falls outside the scope of this mental clusterfuck because those take a LOT of time to make and even more time to emplace.
And no, the US has -never- lost an entire squad to a single attack since Vietnam. It's had a few rendered combat ineffective (>40% casualties), but not outright killed.
Also, for the sake of this thread, taking a bunch of random Germans from no later than 1945 and expecting them to know how to even make an IED is laughable.
Gonna go ahead and answer it for the Wehraboo.
>it is about 15% less powerful than .30-06
>German troops were at no point issued AP ammo
>it stands a 0% chance of penetrating an ESAPI and about a 1% chance of penetrating a SAPI
Assuming all other factors are the same besides training and equipment (equal amount of actual combat experience for all soldiers, etc), I think the US forces would have a slight edge in this matchup. Remember, the US troops in this scenario are allowed to take any kit they like before being dropped in, and as a result we can also assume they have at least some idea of what they're up against. The German troops, meanwhile, do not have this advantage, and will be thrown into battle without any kind of knowledge whatsoever about their opponent. Their confusion at being unable to identify their opponent will quickly turn into panic as the US troops use their advanced kit to ambush the German forces. On top of this, if the German forces are armed with Stg44s like the photo suggests, they will have difficulty penetrating modern body armor, while the American troops will have no such issue. Even if the Germans manage to regroup and pull through, they will sustain heavy casualties.
The answer is so obvious
>the greatest generation of men vs generation of dragon dildo fuckers and child rapists
Despite having better equipment, it's still just 4 guys.
It doesn't matter what they do, they'll probably be surrounded and shot at from all sides.
The only possible way for them to win is to find somewhere that has only one entrance, in which it'd be a fight between grenades etc. in which the US soldiers would be fucked cus nowhere to run.
On the other hand, if no explosives where involved, it'd still be 20 people shooting at them.
TL;DR Germans win thanks to superior numbers.
Dumbass. The Germans were extensively trained in hand to hand combat. The doctrine of CQB in WW2 was to run in with your machine gun and shoot everyone in the room much like today. If the jerries had MP40's, STG-44s, then they would do just fine against the US soldiers.
> urban environment the size of a village
>US troops have no aerial weaponry or support
The Germans will win. They have the numbers, they have their own grenades, machine guns, snipers rifles, etc. It's just a small area the size of a village.
A village is small and no one would have a defensive position at the start so it's a race for strategic areas. If the Germans started throwing grenades at a fortified position, 20 of those would obliterate it in one go.
4 vs 20 is kind of unfair, since the Germans were well-trained soldiers as well.
combat experience doesn't stop you from getting shot in the face.
experience is great and all, but its training that matters. If the soldiers aren't boots or nasty guard they'll be fine.
>combat experience doesn't stop you from getting shot in the face.
>experience is great and all, but its training that matters. If the soldiers aren't boots or nasty guard they'll be fine.
>experience is great and all, but its training that matters.
holy shit just had to greentext that stupid piece of post to make you notice how much fucking retarded you were right there
The Germans practiced total warfare, indiscriminate killing, and caused the highest casualty rate in world history against all the allied forces combined, only losing 5 million in combat.
The United States has not seen a full scale war since Korea and that ended in total failure, they're horribly constrained by bureaucratic regulations and ROE.
Technology is irrelevant. This has been proven time and time again, most recently in the War in Donbass and the South Ossetian War.
Wehrmacht win with no casualties.
>M-muh germans are hard motherfuckers
That depends on what year and area of the war you're pulling them from, doesn't it?
It also depends if they're actual Wehrmacht or shitty conscripts.
>US has not succeeded since Korea
Because the US military has not been given a goal that could be meaningfully achieved. In terms of actual conventional combat they've done well against most things they've been up against, especially in recent years. It's not their fault they were told to do things an army isn't supposed to do, that they weren't trained for, and then got shit on when they failed.
So you're correct that the US has been constrained by ROE in the past and present, but you're forgetting these four grunts in this particular scenario aren't because they have been pulled out of time and space and can't get hold of their command element.
>Technology is irrelevant
Technology is always relevant, more so when both forces are competent and it's the only or one of few differing factors. Which is the case here.
That being said, the four American grunts still lose because they're just grunts and they're outnumbered 5 to 1. They're not trained for this kind of shit, the best they could possibly hope for is to get current gen NVGs, flash hiders etc. and set up on long firing lanes to pick the fuckers off from the black of the night.
Except the Germans took more casualties (not counting the 4.5 million POW) than they inflicted on the western front after Normandy, despite having the defensive advantage. Whoops.
The other thing is that WW2 lasted a long time, outside of specific urban slog fests, the average rifleman did not fight for that many days. Post war US studies concluded that an average rifleman fought for 10-20 days out of a year, while Vietnam and the recent conflicts all sit comfortably above 200 days/year.
Equipment wise the Germans are in a serious rut. There is a small band of ranges where they have the advantage, even with 20 people.
The small arms available are mainly MP-40, K-98, and MG-42. STG-44 is a limited issue weapon. At close range, the MP-40 is ineffective against armor, and the K-98 is basically worthless. MG-42 can not be fired standing up, so the Germans are at a disadvantage. At medium range is where the Germans have fire superiority. At long range the Germans fall behind again since none of their guns have optics.
The US soldiers should focus on getting 40mm's on the MG-42's while they are deployed. Without MG-42's the Germans are at a huge disadvantage.
Conclusion is that the Germans win if they engage at medium ranges in daylight. Americans win every other situation.
>implying the Germans aren't well trained, well equipped, politically motivated super troops? SS wins in all cases.
These threads are a great reminder of how fucking retarded most of /k/ is.
>Except the Germans took more casualties (not counting the 4.5 million POW) than they inflicted on the western front after Normandy, despite having the defensive advantage. Whoops.
Let me tell you something about how war works.
It's a game of momentum and numbers. Once you build momentum, the numbers just keep on adding in your favor once you've broken the enemy's main force, meaning no matter how valiant they were in the initial great battle, if you break their main force, they will get fucked hard in the ensuing battle, since they've lost the initiative. And a large proportion of the German forces were getting their asses rolled up in the Eastern front after throwing a massive amount of manpower at them, while we most likely took their weaker troops in combat, both in quality and quantity.
The combat distance is an urban area the size of a village. That shit isn't large enough to cause a marked difference in ranged combat and even at night, it's easy to see that our boys can get surrounded by 20 men with automatic weapons.
Our troops aren't supermen. It's this kind of thinking that make our generals commit our troops to the dumbest of wars. Even unarmored and untrained Iraqi irregulars caused a lot of death and injury during our assault on Fallujah, but that place was a city. We're talking about a village here and we have no air support.
If anything, their weapons are for more applicable in this fight.
>actually believes the seals killed all these tallies that day
>implying they even killed 10% of their attackers
>implying they didn't get totally shrekt
>implying the numbers haven't changed from 200-300 to 50-100 to 8-10
>implying they didn't get rekt by a dozen or so goat farmers
While it does seem unbelievable, a lone Gurkha ended up defeating 30 Taliban when their post got fucked in an assault. That said, the Gurkha was in a defensible fort and he had multiple eyewitnesses.
> a lone Gurkha ended up defeating 30 Taliban when their post got fucked in an assault.
Why NO ONE has made a movie about Dipprasad Pun yet (he even was part of a unit that had Prince Harry in 2007 Afghanistan, years before his badass 400rd,17 grenade, 1 mine, 30 kill performance happened) is a travesty to soldiers everywhere.
That's rags-to-riches, heroic war movie material right there.
>he wasn't alone
These stories are often very embellishing, not saying he didn't kill some people and shit but its never as the stories portray. Also those SEALs got taken by surprise by a larger and better armed force, even with training you're at many disadvantages and with the terrain they were pretty much guaranteed death.
He isn't white so no one cares.
>These stories are often very embellishing,
He didn't start alone, but they were quickly taken out and he had to defend the place on his own.
>by a larger and better armed force
By what metrics are you saying that they are better armed or larger? Pun's Brit mates also got taken out by surprise, which is why his heroism even had an opportunity to happen.
>trusting the SEALs probably embellishments when they were all under the line of fire versus a bunch of Brits who got offlined from fighting and would have all gotten captured if that one guy who was still there didn't end up getting 30+ corpses littered around their defensive outpost.
>He isn't white so no one cares.
You'd think British white people would be so guilt ridden of their whiteness that they would already have made a movie out of sheer guilt. It's weird not seeing it happen.
I was saying that the SEALs were outmatched in the separate operation. And in his case it was his outpost that was attacked, there were more people near him fighting but he was surrounded and under the impression he was a dead man. He undoubtedly fucked them up but I highly doubt he was all alone. He was taking RPG fire and machine gun fire, and able to kill 30 people? Highly suspect.
They just make Paki movies.
It's easier to confirm your kill counts if you win a battle than if you get fucked up a large force and can't count the corpses and talk to your team about how many they think they killed or injured in the battle.
>implying US troops can do anything without support
>inb4 nazis cant into nightvision
It's only 20 dudes a piece if they all fight like an organized unit. Having 100 guys doesn't mean shit if only 10-20 are engaging at a time.
Unless you have more bodies than they have ammo in which case it's just a matter of time.
you're stupid, 100 guys even if theyre acting as a mob is still 100 fucking guys.
>unless you have more bodies than they have ammo in which case it's just a matter of time
this is so retarded i dont know where to start
the germans could shoot as straight as anyone, and there have been few game changing advancements in infantry combat
the US have better arms, grenades, could take 40mm launchers and the new LMGs, but 4 men is 4 men
I would suspect that the germans had enough specialized armaments if they were available
if every german camped in a building with an stg and a panserfaust I don't see it being much of a contest
>With firearms engaging each other directly with aimed shooting from a distance, they can attack multiple targets and can receive fire from multiple directions. The rate of attrition now depends only on the number of weapons shooting. Lanchester determined that the power of such a force is proportional not to the number of units it has, but to the square of the number of units. This is known as Lanchester's Square Law.
>Note that Lanchester's Square Law does not apply to technological force, only numerical force; so it requires an N-squared-fold increase in quality to compensate for an N-fold increase in quantity.
Actually, it seems that attacking the GIs would be better for the Germans than waiting around. They had good enough equipment to clear rooms and shit. And since they also have grenades, our troops can't stay in one position for long, because they will get flushed out by 20 well-armed men.
That part was one responding to "muh german KDA" when that was only the case on the eastern front.
The German army was not primarily armed with automatics, A 20-man force is most likely 2 MG-42's, 2-4 MP-40's, and the rest 14-16 K-98's, which are essentially useless in urban areas.
The US soldiers are not taking the village, they are defending it. If they are the attackers, the take their time and wait until a very dark night and abuse their NVG's. The time pressure is on the Germans to attack inwards.
Your greentext is bad, and you should feel bad
I always wondered if the dude in the background was sergeant Colbert, high as fuck, mistaking Vietnam with Irak.
I assumed It's a CoD multiplayer scenario (or should be).
both sides are playing capture the flag. Both know things about the other team, etc. If true Amis are getting their shit pushed in.
>4 US soldiers vs one goat herder with an SVD
Americans still lose.
How do you think the same scenario with a trained German sniper would end, huh?
is no one going to talk about how awesome this post is? its very interesting
They had basic IR sights, which are very cool but would light up like a Christmas tree if they ever used them and be prime snipe b8. It would probably be better to simply create a perimeter during the night to make use of numbers and decrease the effectiveness of the American tech.
He said Wermacht. You shouldn't assume they are conscripts. Germany started the war and with millions in a volunteer army.
Even if they were conscripts they would have potentially more experiance than any professional us soldier from any era ever. The US just hadn't had to face the odds in the way the Wermacht did for years. Out numbering their opponent would be a big rarity for the Wermacht, the only advantage the Americans would have is technological but not enough to take out a 5 to one advantage.
The average wehrmacht soldier is a conscript with 4 weeks of training and not a lot of range time.
The peak strength for the Heer was about 3.5 million, while the total number of people who served in the Heer was about 18 million.
What does that mean? It means that the average German soldier was in the combat arms for about 1 year, then he was either killed, wounded, or captured. That's counting in time training, time mobilizing, and time moving to the front. Counting all that, Johannes Q Soldat has about 30-40 days of being in a combat zone before his time was up.
Saying the average Heer soldier was a battle hardened veteran with a Stug-44 is about as accurate as saying the average US army soldier is a Ranger with an XM-29.