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>he fell for the folded steel is best...
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

Thread replies: 188
Thread images: 38
>he fell for the folded steel is best steel meme
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That's not a genuine blade
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>>28518374
Any folded steel blade isn't a genuine blade, kiddo
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folding modern steel would just make it weaker
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>>28518374
>Someone makes a Katana following all the bells and whistles
>It's a terrible piece of shit as expected
>"W-w-well t-that wasn't a real katana!!1"
>Meanwhile even the most low-tier Longswords out there can take a shitload of punishment
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>>28518408
Don't give a shit.
All repro swords are shit.
If somebody wants to shit on a katana then they should spend the money on a genuine one and test how shitty that is over a mallninja potmetal $150 blade.

Katanas worked just fine for slicing up unarmed peasants and that's really all they were meant for to begin with.
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>>28518389
You're retarded, that's not how steel works.
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>>28518408
I take issue with this, though katanas are shit, a samurai wouldn't try to cut someone wearing armor. their armor was good enough to stop slashing attacks as well.
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>>28518432
>implying he's wrong
>potentially creating air pockets without necessity isn't going to result in a shattered blade
>implying native japanese steel isn't shit
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>>28518432
it would add imperfections to the steel
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>>28518433
Samurai swords shattered all the time.
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>>28518445
Not when done properly.

>>28518444
>>implying he's wrong
He is.
>>potentially creating air pockets without necessity isn't going to result in a shattered blade
Forge welding doesn't create air pockets when done properly, it's a common technique literally everywhere that developed metal smithing.
>>implying native japanese steel isn't shit
It is, but that has far more to do with local ore quality or rather lack of proper ore than from their smithing practices.
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>>28518374
Le ebin no true scotsman fallacy
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>>28518408
that's the first time I've seen the murder stroke in a video game.
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>>28518457
Repros are made differently
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>>28518456
What would be the purpose in folding modern steel though? The japs did it out of necessity; to homogenize the steel, but they were still shitty compared to European swords.

Now with carbon and silicon content and whatnot, I just don't see the need to fold
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>>28518448
yeah, what does that have to do with what i posted though?

>Not when done properly.
Its inescapable, you cant dick around with it and just use enough flux and everything's ok, compared to the precise control and quality that modern steel is made at.

It would still be better than anything that existed in the past, but it would add imperfections, and if you cut the blade in half and looked at the cross section under a microscope im sure you could conclusively say that the steel is weaker than it was.
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>>28518480
You don't /need/ to, but the anon said it will weaken the steel which is false in the context what is normally meant when referring to folded jap steel.
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>>28518486
Contaminants floating around in the air will inevitably be introduced to the steel if you are folding it over.
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>>28518503
>Contaminants floating around in the air will inevitably be introduced to the steel if you are folding it over.
Not how it works and that's a moot point anyway because the same could be said for forging in general.
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>>28518514
>Not how it works and that's a moot point anyway because the same could be said for forging in general.

Indeed

Stock removal of high quality factory steel would make for the strongest sword

It is how it works. Fold something the meme 'thousand times' and see how much weaker it is.
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>>28518528
just imagine if you could fold paper a thousand times
it would be unbreakable
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>>28518528
>Stock removal of high quality factory steel would make for the strongest sword
No it wouldn't. There's a reason impact tools are still forged and not machined.
>It is how it works. Fold something the meme 'thousand times' and see how much weaker it is.
They were folded a dozen or two times resulting in thousands of layers, not actually folded a thousand times. But sure, keep preaching how I'm wrong and you're right when you have no clue what you're talking about. There's nothing in a normal atmosphere that will be that readily absorbed into steel besides oxygen which is what flux is for.
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>>28518462
> the joke
.
.
.
> your head
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>>28518542
>No it wouldn't. There's a reason impact tools are still forged and not machined.
cost
>They were folded a dozen or two times resulting in thousands of layers,
And if they folded them too many times it would defeat the purpose of folding them to start with (evening out impurities), because it would be adding more with each fold.

The point stands that folding will add some contaminants. Its literally physically impossible for it not to. Its not going to matter because even mediocre modern steel is going to produce something much better than historical steel, but its a neat little bit of trivia to point out that folding would actually weaken steel, because people who dont know better dont even know what it was done for and just assume its magic or something
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>>28518528
>the meme

You are the meme, Anon
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>>28518408
>Meanwhile even the most low-tier Longswords out there can take a shitload of punishment

ToshBreaksASword.webm
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>>28518486
>>28518456

But it will, repeated forge welding on steel will always result in some degree of carbon loss. No matter how good you control conditions and technique, you're always going to lose some carbon in the steel every time you fold it.

So it does in fact weaken the end product.
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>>28518408
1. katanas were not designed, nor intended for fighting someone in armour (as only high ranking samurai wore metal armor), nor for full strikes against other metal objects (japanese sword fighting techniques AVOIDED full on strikes and blocks), they WERE designed as effective killing tools against PEOPLE(as most who would be strike would be wearing "soft" armours or be unarmoured)
2. western swords WERE design for fighting armour combatants, they are as much bludgeoning weapons as they are cutting weapons, designed to batter enemy into submission until a fatal cut could be made in areas of weak or weakened armour.

BOTH swords have their benefits and neither is inherently better then the other, nor can they be compared "side by side" with eachother because there are several key difference with the techniques that they are intended to be used with.
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>>28518358
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>>28518408
>>28518374

>K-katana is the best, my animu tells me so!!!
>L-long sword is the best, my church tells me so

Literal sword niggers with worst quality swords...

Turkic (or Turko-Mongol, whatever rocks your boat) curved swords were the best designed swords to be used in post Roman warfare and have been adopted by Islamic and Indian armies around 9th-10th century, by Poles and Russians in around Reformations in Europe and other Western armies around 17th century.

It has been proven superior to every other blade it has come across and displaced any other sword it has come into contact with.

Gods own hand>Turkic swords>shit>Longsword>diarrhea>Japanese swords
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>>28518876

I was with you until

> they are as much bludgeoning weapons as they are cutting weapons,

Which is bullshit. A katana would make for a better bludgeoning weapon than an average longsword from the 15th century, because as cutting weapons, they're generally more tip heavy. That being said, it doesn't have quillons, so in the murder stroke the katana would be inferior.

Most European swords past the viking era are cut and thrust type swords, in the later years they specialize towards the thrust, not the bash or anything.
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>>28518876

You can bludgeon a nip in "armor" with a sword
Mister Jap can't do the same to you.
You can use a shield, he can't
Mister Jap needs to use bows to compete
Lol shield + shield bash.
You're a sap, Mr. Jap.
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>>28518989

Not same anon

>they're generally more tip heavy

Just because it is tip heavy, it doesn't mean that it is sturdy enough to absorb the force it can deal. And a bludgeoning weapon that can't take the force it can deal is a shit shock weapon. Hence, longsword is better for blunt strike against metal armour or another weapon.
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Any sword you pay under $1000 is not made for a sword fight. It doesnt matter if its a Katana or a Claymore, mall ninja shit is just for show.

I have a gladius I bought from cold steel for $40. Its sharp as fuck and hacks a great path through dense brush when Im inna woods. This is what it was meant for. I dont expect to be dueling anyone with it in a sword fight, and if I did, I would just shoot them.
So shut the fuck up about your fan boi level swords.
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>>28519075
You weren't made for swordfighting either. Look at yourself man.
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>>28519075

>fat! the post
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>>28518994
>Mister Jap needs to use bows to compete

Just like most people in the history of ever. Bows + spears are what win wars.
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>>28519075
>Any sword you pay under $1000 is not made for a sword fight.

Source: your ass.
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>>28519100
I am in pretty good shape, but no I was not made for sword fighting. I have skin instead of and exosekeleton and my hands are more blunt than sharp claws. But I could learn!

Katana and western swords are not really comparable. I can compare my gladius to a machete though. They are about the same size and their modern use is the same. I only picked the gladius because it was pointier and I like that.
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>>28519117
Yes, my ass. Because my ass has wasted money on mall ninja shit before. It kinda makes me a subject matter expert.
All these show pieces are exactly that, SHOW PIECES as ifn they look cool, and are designed to look cool, but if you try to hack open a coconut the blade will snap like a twig.
Dont believe me? Go buy a $300 Katana and hack a path through some dense brush, you wont get far before the blade dulls and breaks.
Hell do the same with a $300 claymore or bastard sword.
Save yourself some money and pick up amachete by cold steel or united cutlery. Anything else is made for show.
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>>28519161
>My experience with sub-$50 blades makes me an expert on blades in general
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>>28519188
>My $500 wall sword would never fail me
>Never gonna try it though

Actually my $40 gladius machete is the only sword I bought that hasnt failed me. The others were all 300 or more.
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>>28518989
see this dude
>>28519006
i say western swords were as much bludgeoning weapons as cutting weapons because they COULD survive hits against hard materials, they could be used to block strikes completely, and they could be used to bash against another man in Armour even without the expectation of piercing that armour, being tip heavy has nothing to do with being a bludgeon weapon(as many bludgeon weapons were of evenly distributed weight)
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>>28519203
>Implying my go-to isn't a $30 machete
>Implying that price equals quality

Sorry you got suckered into buying $300 wallhangers.
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>>28519238
Im not. But my point remains that even pricey wall hangers are not meant for use.
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>>28519640
>pricey wall hangers are not meant for use

No shit, they're wall hangers. Not all sub-$1000 swords are wall hangers.
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>>28519833
Tha fuck they aint nigga!
Why? Because the makers know you are not going to go out and duel someone with it. They also know if it breaks you cant do shit about it because you "misused" it.

There are a FEW exceptions. But the reality is that even a $3000 katana isnt made with the expectation that it will be used.
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>>28519883
>Talk out of ass
>Get called on it
>Reach deeper

Par for the /k/ourse I guess
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>>28518567
>No it wouldn't. There's a reason impact tools are still forged and not machined.
>cost
Uh, no, forging shapes and compacts the crystalites of the metal along the contours of the forged shape, keeping them largely intact and directing stresses through them. Billet machining breaks up crystalites at the surface, leaving more exposed grain boundaries susceptible to failure.

On something with simple geometry like swords or shafts, machining is actually far cheaper since the shape is already so close to mass produced, nominally sized, rolled material.

Forging only gets cheaper with geometrically complex parts or parts with significant material to be removed, like pistol slides.

Forging is NOT the same thing as casting.
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>>28519216
>many bludgeon weapons were of evenly distributed weight
And nearly no cutting weapon that could remotely be described as a sword and not a polearm has anything even close to 'evenly distributed' weight. Bashing with the blade of any sword ('bludgeoning katana' included) is utterly ineffective against rigid armour, whether the sword is durable enough to survive or not.
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>>28518876
>. western swords WERE design for fighting armour combatants,
NO THEY WERE NOT YOU FUCKTARD
Only some were, and those were specifically not designed to deal with plate armour. The reason blunt anti-armor weapons and very spikey polearms came into fruition is because European swords suck at killing people who have armor. And Japanese swords are top-heavier than a lot of European swords, so they are technically far better for bludgeoning people with than a lot of European swords generally are.

So many fucking rank amateurs here.

>>28518358
Just looking at the blade itself and where it actually got broken, something tells me that isn't even a real sword.
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>>28518358
Read historical sources. Swords broke in Europe a lot. It's why El Cid's two magical swords have the reputation they have.

Modern steel quality in Europe (and Japan) just wasn't there until late in human history. Both cultures had equally shit steel. The Japanese just had to hammer shit for longer to get the same shit.
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>people think you bash people with swords
If you don't have a huge stick or hammer, the way you defeat armored opponents is the same in either Japan or Europe: grapple, then knife through face.
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>>28518460
and yet they still fucked it up

you strike with the pommel, not the crossguard. If you don't believe literally every manual illustrating the murder stroke, then believe the illustrations of dueling swords in the talhoffer fechtbuch that show pommels with spikes on each side.
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>>28520491
holy shit this thread is retarded
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>>28518876
So you admit the katana is a shit awird that is only good for killing unarmed peasents
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>>28518981
kebab detected
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>>28518876
>western swords were designed to fight armour

Uhh no swords were designed to slice people not armour

How bout you actually know what you're talking about.
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>>28518922
>From Katana to Kukri.webm
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>>28520871

>denying the fact that Turkic swords replaced all swords in military use and became a standart in east and west

>muh l-longsword
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Why all you pussies arguing about swords in the age of guns? I could kill you from a mile away with a gun, let's see a s-word do that
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A sword is a personal weapon. It's a great tool for killing people who are unarmed, and a very good tool for killing people who are poorly armed.
As their armament gets better, they get harder to kill with the sword. A simple wooden spear could kill you just as dead from a bit further away. Even a nice thick tree limb helps.
A shield lets you laugh at those puny threats.
Good armor helps when he gets a hit in with his bit of wood because you were busy laughing.
A helmet saves your life 74,289 times per second without you ever even knowing it.
A good spear with a steel tip? murder machine
But, alas, one would look a fool strutting about town kitted for war. An elegant sword at the side, the traditional OC, as a counterpoint to the concealed knife of a sneaky nog.
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>>28518989
>>28519006

Just gonna point out that the POB on a katana is about 4.5"-5" from the tsuba. Not really much different that most western swords of comparable length/weight. Tip heavy, not so much.

The katana is suited for draw cuts, rather than the chopping motion employed with a hand-and-a-half or early medieval European sword, so being tip heavy would really be of any benefit.

>>28519161
You are literally a mong. I have, and frequently do, cut through soaked tatami with a .5"-1" oak core with a $250 dollar monosteel katana. Well made and well performing swords can easily be had for ~300, if you know what you're looking for. Collecting the entire Bud-K catalog does NOT make you an expert, it makes shitty manufacturers money.

>>28519883
>Nobody makes swords for martial artists, who regularly cut things with swords.
>There are no craftsmen who take pride in their work.

>>28518528
Confirmed for not knowing shit about metallurgy OR metal working. Billets, bars, and other stock can come from the foundry with all kinds of issues, such as voids, inclusions, all manner of carbide clumps, etc. Most smiths recognize this, and buy only very high quality steel, and then tailor the forging process to minimize the harm these things can do in the finished product. Even among those knifemakers that employ stock removal, the general rule is that you make two bad knives to every good one, because of the inherent issues with steel stock.

Source: ABS Mastersmiths Jason Knight and Burt Foster, and ABS Journeyman Smith Ken Hall, all of whom my brother and I have spent significant time with when my bro was learning bladesmithing.

A note on folding steel, and the forging process in general in regards to impurities and carbon loss: In the most common high carbon steels used for bladesmithing, 1060 up to 1095, the last two digits are your carbon content given in hundredths of a percent. 1060 is .6% carbon, 1075 is .75% and so on. Nearly all of us already know this. (cont.)
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>>28524663
When you heat the metal, and especially when you work it with a hammer, forge scale flakes off the workpiece. Forge scale is largely carbon, iron, and various oxides, and a lot of scale forms. So you lose a ton of carbon in the forging process, right? Nope. The change in carbon content is negligible, as most of the scale is thinner than paper. If you've ever seen wet forging done, the scale is so thin that much of it dissolves in the water splashed on the anvil. You would have to put a sample of the finished blade in a mass spectrometer to notice the difference, and the loss has no measure effect on the mass of the finished piece. A one kilo bar of 1095 will form into a one kilo blade whose carbon content is still well within industry ranges for 1095.

As for folding: It is very easy to screw up if you are new to forging, and *can* introduce voids or inclusions. This is exactly what flux and a good hammer/power hammer is for. Folding only weakens a blade if it done improperly. Most folding nowadays is done with a power hammer, using anhydrous borax as a flux. The flux serves two purposes: to protect the steel from oxidation, which is very rapid in a high temerature enviroment, and also to be forced out from between the layers, carrying impurities and other gunk with it. Properly done, folding results in a cleaner steel, which, for the most part, is a stronger steel. That is part of why tamagahane is folded before shaping the blade. Japanese ore was, and is, very poor quality, and included large carbide inclusions as well as some slag from the tatara smelting process. The steel was folded to even out carbon content, not to "even out impurities" as some will suggest, and to REMOVE impurities, as they would be carried out from between the layers by the flux, which in the Japanese case is a particular kind of fine ash/powdered clay.

(cont.)
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>>28524677

While the Japanese sword is by no means perfect, it is the culmination of many ingenious processes designed to make do with what they had. Follow the same processes with good steel and modern fluxes and tools, and a smith can work make fucking wonders.

Fuck, I'm autistic.

TL;DR Some niggers just don't know shit about metal.
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>>28524663
>>28524677
>>28524698
That's pretty good information.
Thanks.
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>>28523882
what is cavalry
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>>28524123
Because it's cool. I mean, I love my guns, but swords are pretty amazing in their own way.
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>>28524663
>Confirmed for not knowing shit about metallurgy OR metal working
>>28524677
Thank you anon, it's quite frustrating when /k/ tries to talk metallurgy sometimes and has no goddamn clue.
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>>28518981
k bud
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>>28524698

Better steel, especially tempered steel, makes objectively better blades. The katana is a sword of compromises. Not saying they aren't cool, but a decent Dao or Shiska is a better saber and any longsword beats one.
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>>28520741
in a way.

yes.

Japanese katana were VERY good at killing unarmed men and woman, but Japanese sword fighting also developed in such a way that it became a skill intensive martial art, mostly it became skill intensive BECAUSE the swords were not designed for extreme robustness, but to argue that a blade's robustness is the sole quantifier of it's value is stupid.

now when comparing such a blade to western blade, there are different forging methods went into play, and a different sword fighting methodology, one of the biggest difference is that europeon swordfighting also included many strikes designed solely to pass concussive force onto those who they were attacking (because many armour was not easily pierce by a slicing sword) the concussive strikes would be used until the attacker could use a peircing thrust in a area where the armour was weaker
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>>28518358

Some guy posted this in /co/ of all places. I think he really means an arming sword with some of these, but otherwise, he's pretty spot on.
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>>28518374
I'm going to pretend your a shit tier troll and not actually clinically retarded
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>>28518445
It literally does the opposite you fucking tard
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>>28518444
>air pockets
>I don't know what flux is
Stick to your vidya and animu you mongoloid fuck
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>>28518981
Go back to whence you came redguard, and take your curved swords with you
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>>28518542
This guy knows what's up
>pissing into a sea of piss
Give up anon. This can only end in tears
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>>28518408

Holy crap!

>Close range pommel strike to head for stun
>Followed by mordstreich into top of shoulder , driving the guard into the chest cavity to puncture lungs/arteries/heart.

Holy fuck, a game that isn't soaked in weeb idiocy? What the fuck is this?
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>>28518981
Sand nigger plz go
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>>28526912
>half-swording
huh.
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>>28526972
I know, I don't know why I bother sometimes.
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>>28526912
That's the most accurate info graph I have seen yet. Where did you get it
>mind if I save it friend le may may
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>>28527020
Extremely common. Swords didn't now have keen edges below the upper 1/3 for this reason. Enough to cut but not a honed edge that would cut through your gloves. The upper 1/3ish was as sharp as they could get it. Which is fucking sharp
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>>28527020
Having a razor edge on all but a few specific weapons isn't a good idea because it'll chip if the other guy even looks at it.
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>>28518981
>Turkic (or Turko-Mongol, whatever rocks your boat) curved swords were the best designed swords to be used in post Roman warfare

Horse shit.

Best sword vs armor = falx. Look it up.

Best sword for unarmored dueling = rapier.

Best general purpose old-school sword = renaissance arming sword.

Best fucking sword ever designed = 1913 pattern US cavalry saber. Period. Too bad Patton made it after guns reigned supreme.
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>>28527060
>>28527072
Fellow connoisseurs I see
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>>28527079
A falx isn't a sword jackass
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>>28527101
More that I just understand how edge geometry and metallurgy work, swords aren't a major interest for me.
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>>28518408
What game is this?
>>
Do you know what's better than a sword? A spear or spear variant. Not only are they cheap to produce and train with, they're a far more effective weapon than a sword. That's why halberds and Guisarmes were for centuries, even at the advent of black powder weaponry. While swords are prettier, pole weapons are superior.
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>>28527060
>>>28527020
>Extremely common. Swords didn't now have keen edges below the upper 1/3 for this reason. Enough to cut but not a honed edge that would cut through your gloves. The upper 1/3ish was as sharp as they could get it. Which is fucking sharp

Yeah, that info pic I found in /co/ points out that the center of percussion in a longsword, arming sword, etc is ALSO in the section of blade where they sharpened it to slice free-falling rags.

Those old fuckers knew what they were doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_percussion
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>>28518981
>displaced any other sword it has come into contact with
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>>28527079
>Best sword vs armor = falx
Against BS iron age armor maybe
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>>28527008
i dont remember the name, but i remember it has 3 distinct faction flavors; Japanese, Scandinavian/viking and the one in that webm. however for balancing purposes the japanese armor and swords perform on par with their western counterparts.
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>>28527224
Today we call it the harmonic balance point. There is a machine that can measure and detect this. Back then the would give the blade a light slap and look for which section had the least visable wobbler. Sharpened enough to cut a falling rag from that point up exactly as you said. Same as the sweet spot on a baseball bat
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>>28527365
>bamboo and shitty octagonal chain maille
>on par with western armor
Into the trash it goes
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>>28527392
its a video game, what do you expect? one team to predictably lose EVERY single fucking match? Sure there are ways they could asymmetrically balance it, but I think the developers were going more for competitive small team gameplay, and in this case some inaccuracies had to be made.
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>>28527458
>muh vidya
Go outside you fat faggot. There is an SCA group within driving distance. I promise.
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>>28518422

You are a spergburglar
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>>28518480
Because it looks nice
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>>28527458
hey man, I'm just explaining why the game displayed in the webm will fall short of our expectations. You can be mad about an entire hobby if you really want.
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>>28526912
>mordstreich
>piercing attack with the crossguard
>facts
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>>28527369
>>28527224
Center of Percussion is different from vibration nodes. They can generally be found in the same region, but they aren't the same thing. Visibly wobbling a sword can only find vibration nodes, of which in very long swords can exist in multiple areas. But in actual practice, they are not going to always be the part of the sword that can cut the best. And no, they are not "sharpened enough to cut a falling rag" at that point up. It is generally a specific area that does not go all the way to the tip of the blade, because you need weight to impart force to cut, and the tip ends up lacking it. Even if physics says that is the case, experienced swordsmen will say otherwise.

>>28518981
>turk blade
>shitting on a japanese blade
A kilij would stay bent if you bent it, the same way a Japanese katana would if you did the same thing to it. The kilij is quite close to being a katana and a shamshir in that respect.
Then again, there are quite a number of European swords all the way up to and a bit beyond 1000 AD that will remain bent if you bend them.
>>
>>28526880
>that europeon swordfighting also included many strikes designed solely to pass concussive force onto those who they were attacking
Most European swordblades were not heavy enough to case concussive damage to someone wearing armor. Trying to hit someone's armor to concuss him generally meant you're opening yourself to him hitting you in a deadly point since you're way open after doing so.
>>
Where can I actually get good proper longswords? Every place here just sells katanas
>>
>>28519075
>Any sword you pay under $1000 dollars is not made for a sword fight

I guess my cavalry sabre from 1907 wasn't made for combat
>>
>>28529481
Kult if athena

Filter out the wallhangers, avoid deepeeka, the threaded ronin katana euros, darksword armory, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting

The peened ronin katana euroes and Hanwei tinkers are nice budget longswords to get you started. Valiant armoury is a bit more expensive but are worth the extra $100 or so over the H/T -especially for those scabbards. Arms and armor are good, albion is the top for production swords. And if you want to spend multiple thousands of dollars on fancy custom stuff that you'll never want to cut with there's fable blades
>>
>>28529490
To his defense, being made for combat doesn't mean a sword is meant for a sword fight. Mass production weapons generally had inferior quality to masterpiece works. There are plenty of records in history where military sabres got broken in combat.

The term milspec applies to that. It's the lowest possible price where the weapon is generally considered "acceptably reliable for combat by the military" and even this acceptability varies by country. It's why a lot of soldiers don't get super high-end 5000 buck rifles. Shit isn't cost effective.
>>
>>28529585
While mine is definitely a basic mass produced one, I can see some evidence of damage done that looks like a fight, but I have no real way of knowing.

Small marks near the Forte and on the guard that loom like cuts/thrusts a few of the same near where someone would cut with, which for a thrusting cavalry sabre strikes me as odd.

It hasn't been sharpened by whoever owned it - but I've spoken to people who know much more about sabres than me and they told me it's possible that the Spanish 1907 sabre could be used in combat unsharpened because it was a thrusting cavalry sabre. By the damage to the blade and guard and from what I've been told I can guess that it has seen a bit of combat
>>
>>28519075
>I have a gladius I bought from cold steel for $40. Its sharp as fuck and hacks a great path through dense brush when Im inna woods. This is what it was meant for. I dont expect to be dueling anyone with it in a sword fight, and if I did, I would just shoot them.

You're right that a gladius isn't meant for sword duels. But next time you're in the woods, use your scutum to push through the dense brush. Reserve your gladius for stabbing saplings.
>>
>>28519075
>gladius
>hack and slash
>>
>>28518358

fix it with tape
>>
>>28518358
But folded steel is better than what japan would have used otherwise. They made the best use of their horrible quality metal. obviously better steel is better though.
>>
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>>28529585
>being made for combat doesn't mean a sword is meant for a sword fight
>>
mfw longsword faggots think they arent weabs. longsword is the asshole of the martial arts world. mfw.jpg
>>
>>28518408
lets make everyone but the white man move hesitantly and redundantly, then lets have the white guy swing his place around with no effort while wearing full armor. then lets use this as a basis of superiority in the real world. lets just forget that trying to administer race superiority arguments gets shot to hell when you introduce blacks to the picture.
>>
>>28529929
what he said was right though? or are you just retarded?
>>
>>28529967
>what he said was right though?

No it wasn't? He's full of crap and so are you?

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that was you?
>>
>>28529992
British military sabres and Japanese katanas that were mass produced during the 1800/1900s and around WW2 were all made for combat. They would break under sword fighting stress far easier than well-made swords.

That is the trade-off you have with mass production milspec vs top-of-the-line quality smithing items in terms of swords during that one era. This is just one example.
>>
>>28529960
Technically speaking, full plate armor wasn't really that heavy when technology hit its peak before guns.
>>
>>28518408

>Spinning around in combat

Into the trash it goes.
>>
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>>28518981
>turkic
>design totally stolen from arabic swords

Fuck off kebab
>>
>>28518981
>shitting on a katana while sucking kilij cock
Irony?
>>
>>28530049
>t*rks
>not kebab

be more retarded
>>
>>28530047
There are moments when spinning in combat works, but you mostly don't do it in duels against a master duelist.
>>
>>28530055
You just confused me, what?
>>
>>28529960
>lets just forget that trying to administer race superiority arguments gets shot to hell when you introduce blacks to the picture.
the fuck does that even mean?

some REEEEEEing about how black ppl strong bruh while forgetting we selectively bred them for docility and strength in the US?

African weapons were uniformly terrible, even after they were brought out of the stone age and into the age of steel by the evil dutch and english, so whatever asshurt you're dealing with is offtopic to the point of the thread.
>>
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Katanas look cooler

Suck my dick fags
>>
>>28530049
>people still don't know that during the crusades the most common sword in the hands of the saracen heretic were straight bladed

the scimitar didn't truly become common in the region until the 16th century. earliest examples do date to the 11th century, but the modern idea that the crusaders were facing guys gussied up like 17th century turks/19th century indians with CURVED SWORDS is all bullshit
>>
>>28530084
Just because majority had straight swords, doesn't mean it didn't originated from there

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulfiqar

One of most famous blades, and it was curved waay before
>19 Century
>>
>>28530037
>made for combat

i.e. cutting and/or hitting people and/or things.
>>
>>28518358
we have no idea what kind of abuse he put that blade through

he could have done things that no steel is supposed to handle, no blade is indestructable
>>
>>28527008
>>28527153
"for honor" Just do image search you lazy faggets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Honor
It is not finished yet, so maybe it can be a shit, but I don't know. If you want to play something cool with swordsfights and horses see "mount and balde:warband"
>>
>>28530124
Combat =/= Sword fight
Fighting =/= Sword fight
Armed warfare =/= Sword fight
Google synonyms and definition for combat =/= Sword fight
Cutting and hitting people and or things =/= sword fight
Heck, it isn't even combat, because you can cut and hit people or things without any fight going on.
You = idiot
>>
>>28518358
That doesn't look like a real sword blade from Japan from first glance.
>>
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>>28530232
I'm beginning to think that your idea of a sword fight is more cinematic than realistic.
>>
>>28530288
When you go to war, you go to combat.
When you go to war, you do not expect to fight with swords all the time. It's a fucking sidearm. That was the case even in the Middle Ages where primary weapons included ranged weapons and polearms, you dumb idiot.
Mass production swords are not all capable of handling severe stress that swordfighting provided to them, and this is why historically, a shitload of European and Asian swords are recorded as breaking in combat.
Because not all swords are the same. Just because swords are made for war and use in war, that doesn't mean that all of them are optimized for savage sword fighting, you buffoon. Especially for swords that are mass produced due to a sudden war popping up between countries that suddenly find themselves needing to arm hundreds of thousands of people in a short amount of time.
>>
>>28530288
There is a reason why British officers commissioned the creation of customized swords when they went to war during the height of the British Empire. It's not simply because of bling, but also due to practical purposes, in the same way that most Beretta M9s are beat up 20 year old guns.
>>
>>28530231
Might be a cool game. Maybe.
>>
>>28530231
>having to fight horsemen
Chasing them down is really tiring when you're against 1000 and you only have 100 men or so.
>>
Guys guys guys, you are all ignoring a simple fact here, if a western knight ever came up against a japanese samurai, the Knight would simply unscrew his pommel, throw it at him, which would end up with the knight ending him rightly.
>>
>>28530314
I never said that swords are or were the primary weapons of war, that doesn't have anything to do with this.

>Mass production swords are not all capable of handling severe stress that swordfighting provided to them, and this is why historically, a shitload of European and Asian swords are recorded as breaking in combat.

At this point I'm just going to ask you to show some stats on that. I don't deny that swords break, but show me that this is an appreciable phenomenon.

>>28530322
>There is a reason why British officers commissioned the creation of customized swords when they went to war during the height of the British Empire.

So did you just read like 1 post before jumping in? The other guy has said several times that military issue gear isn't always the best, and that is not a statement that I disagree with.

I'm not saying that basic swords are the best out there, I'm saying they're up to snuff. Something doesn't have to be a masterpiece to hold together.
>>
>>28530417
>Stats
Read historical books on historical soldiers and swordsmen, their letters and diaries, as well as supported accounts by witnesses. These books with primary sources exist.
>>
>>28518358
European and Japanese steel sucked ass until more modern steelmaking came in the last century. Japanese just had to hammer things out longer to get the same shit European steel quality.
>>
>>28530442
>Read X
>Gives no names

And if I come across a bunch of anecdotes about how great everyone's swords are?

If you're going to cop out and tell me to look stuff on Google Books the least you could do is tell me what you've read so I can see the same things.
>>
>>28530455
are you credited to speak on such things or are you just blowing hot air
>>
>>28530582
If it's about swords breaking a lot, you can find it in Swordsmen of the British Empire.
>>
>swords
Inferior to guns with a bayonet, m8.
>>
>>28518358
Folding steel a thousand times imbues the sword with tank destroying magical powers.
>>
>>28520924
Wut m8
U
T
M
8
>>
>>28530047
Want to know how I know you're a traitor?
>>
>>28519161
>united cutlery
>>
>>28527116
Yes it is.

Its like a katana, but inverted.
>>
>>28518922
A good example of what non-spring tempered steel does when it hits something hard. It bends, but doesn't flex back into shape.

The second part where they hit it with the longsword is also a good example of what happens when something with a spring temper hits a hard object. It flexes like hell, but doesn't break, and doesn't set to a different shape.

Sure the spring temper requires the blade to not be as hard, but it will still be hard enough to cut through bone for a full battle. And any edge damage will be easier to fix, whereas the hard edge of a laminated blade will be more likely to chip and break off when impacted and damaged, which is way harder to repair.
>>
>>28527035
>That's the most accurate info graph I have seen yet
this explains why /k/ don't know shit about swords
>>
>>28529960
The fuck are you going on about?
>>
>>28519075
>Gladius
>hacks through dense brush
>hacks
>Hacking, with a Gladius
Confirmed for mentally incapacitated.
>>
>>28535718
Not him, but some gladius are really sharp.
>>
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>>28518981
>"Curved...swords."
>>
>>28518358
buy flea market shit get flea market results
>>
>>28520423
>European swords suck at killing people who have armor
swords in general suck at killing people with good armor.
>>
Why can't weebs accept that Japanese swords are shit?
>>
>>28530592
Japanese steel did suck ass. Folding it 9001 times was to try to get all the impurities out of it. Even doing so, it still sucked ass, just less ass than it would have otherwise.
>>
>>28518358
Japs folded their steel to spread the imperfections across the entirety of the blade. Native Japanese steel in the "old days" was 'bad' and full of imperfections. many times folded, is many times spread
>>
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Oh god...THIS again.
>>
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>>28518358
He shrould have brought a Hanwrei froged swrord.
>>
>>28530047
>trash

Your status in Chivalry.
>>
>>28518876
>nor can they be compared "side by side"

They really can though. That's what we're doing. Katanas were good enough for what they were used for, which is why they never needed to change. But just because something is sufficient doesn't mean it's equivalent to its competition.

The western sword is superior. Both in length and girth. And I defy you to find any maiden that would say otherwise.
>>
>>28518358
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4MX4DjLVVs
>>
>>28540785
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuvtIFa8hnA
>>
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>>28540572
>>
>>28530170
given how uniform the fake hamon is, this thing was most likely a $20 BUDK special. Thing is just a slug of non-tempered stainless steel.
>>
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>>28518408
>vidya footage
>WEEBS BTFO LOLOL xD

No, anon. You are the weebs.
>>
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>>28524202
>doesnt know about quarterstaffs
>>
>>28540892
there is no reason not to put some sort of metal fittings on your staff and turn it into a different kind of pole weapon.
>>
>>28540784
kek
>>
>>28518374
holy shit, why is everyone shitting on this post?

he makes a point, maybe the sword in that picture is a piece of shit that wasn't made properly for all we know
>>
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>>28524698
>dat feel
>>28526805
The Katana is essentially a hybrid between the single edged chinese dadao and the differentially hardened jin. The folding was another technique that made its way to japan but its literally just to compensate for sub par quality steel.
My guess is the katana stagnated in its evolution because low quality steel inhibited the armor development nullifying the need for a better designs.
>>
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>katanas are shit

just because we are tired of weeabos with the superior japanesu steel meme it doesn't mean they were shit weapons or otherwise no army or warrior would have used it

neither bald neither with three wigs lads
>>
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>>28540901
The metal may vibrate in a different frequency than the wood not only making it heavier but also allowing more shockwaves to travel back into the wielders hands. As long as the wood is dense enough (its a usually quartered hardwood core) there is no need for extra metal as no sword will slice through it. Make it blackthorn and you really have the non plus ultra with the best possible balancing the most flexible meele range and enough leverage to fuck shit up. Relatively common was some form of weighted iron caps.
>TL;DR: cheaper, longer, better balanced, inconspicuous, doubles as a walking stick and bests/humiliates anything in a duel.
Would pick over sword any day of the week.
Also polearm masterrace.
>>
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>>28530049
>Arabic Swords
Were straight.

Turkic sabers were pretty much descended from the first versions of the Chinese Dao (pictured.) Albeit the Steppeniggers gave it a curve.
>>28530084
During the crusades, both Turkic Sabers and the Arabic/Persian straight sword existed side by side.

Largely because MOST OF THE RULING MIDDLE EASTERN CUNTS IN THE CRUSADE WERE TURKIC IN ORIGIN thanks to the fall of the Abbasids.

And Saracens weren't heretic. They were Pagan. Heresy means a believer of a religion diverging the doctrine of his own religion.

And Scimitar is a cancerous western term that is applied to all Eastern Single-Edged Swords disregarding all local classifications.
>>
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>>28540929
>The Katana is essentially a hybrid between the single edged chinese dadao
Bullshit. The Dadao was a 19th Century sword. The Katana derived from Japanese copies of the T'ang Dynasty Dao
>>
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>>28526805
>Not saying they aren't cool, but a decent Dao or Shiska is a better saber and any longsword beats one.
>Decent Dao
Funny Statement: Chinese considered Japanese Katanas as very well made swords. Let that sink in: the Chinese, who were more advanced than the Japanese in Metallurgy at the time (i.e. they had blast furnaces for one thing while the rest of the world made do with bellows).

"From the land of the Rising Sun comes precious swords. Across the eastern sea the merchants of Yüeh fetch them
With scabbards of fragrant wood, sharkskin-covered, and bearing designs in silver and gold, trappings of brass and bronze;
For a hundred pieces of gold (if you like such things) you can buy one and buckling that on your belt, defy all road side hags and devils"
-Poet/Historian/Politician Ouyang Xiu, ca 1060AD, Song Dynasty.

"They disdain life and are bloodthirsty… The blades of the Japanese sabers are sharp.
Chinese swords are inferior."
-Riben Kao (Study of Japan), by General Li Yangong. On the subject of Japanese pirates in the 16th Century

What blew the Chinese (and other Asian Peoples) away with the Katana was the design: that it was a two handed sword sans the traditional length of a mainland east asian two handed sword like the Zhangdao (which was very long). The Katana led to a revival of two handed sword use in China. Having fought nomads for so fucking long, the Chinese have pretty much disdained their two handed swords in favor of one handers (more useful for mounted combat or carrying a spear/bow around). Their battles with Japanese rogues during the 1300's-1400's on the other hand impressed Chinese infantry commanders, who then revived the Zhangdao (long dao) and the Shuang Shou Jian (Two Handed Jian) swords.

Also Japanese swords were in high demand in the civilian weapons trade since the Song Dynasty up until Japan closed off in the 1600's.
>>
>>28530391
Wheres my Khopesh?
>>
>>28529960
WE WUZ KANGS N KOEENZ
>>
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>>28518457
>Le ebin no true scotsman fallacy
Doesn't apply, you silly memer. That anon drew attention to the fact that OP posted a poorly constructed imitation blade that doesn't fit the specification of a katana. OP may as well have posted a picture of a broken papier mâché katana for how representative his chosen "sample" is.

The poorly constructed fake will snap under far lesser force than the real thing. You can do similar damage to genuine katana, but only under very specific circumstances or extremely negligent use. If you decide to clamp your sword in a vice and have things done to it, or bash or stab metal when you know perfectly well that softly curved thin blades aren't fit for that purpose, that's entirely your decision.

>>28518543
Whether you were pretending to be retarded is immaterial, you still look a fool.
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