All pistol rounds are underpowered BARELY LETHAL short range garbage. All service pistol calibers perform about the same in real world situations (9mm, .40, .45, .357 sig) and only marginally beat out smaller pistol rounds like .32 acp, .380, 9x18 from a purely penetration standpoint using jhp.
If you have your choice of ANY pistol/pistol caliber in the world and ONE rifle not your choice to grab in a HD or SD scenario and you even entertain the thought of "which pistol should I-" you are fucked up and should fix yourself.
>>28490232 9mm is less lethal than .45/.40 which is better for police work. You don't want to kill people most of the time. A .38 would be even better really. .45 for self defense because in a shooter/home invasion situation it isn't about capacity, it's about being deadly. 1 lethal shot is better than 2 or 3. .40 for everything else because it's the ideal mix between capacity and stopping power. Of course, this is my opinion. The best gun and caliber for you is the one you're most effective with. If you can use a .22 or .25 ACP better than a .45, get that. It's all about personal preference and ability.
Actually, dont buy a .25 ACP under any circumstance.
>>28491145 >2015 Also >liking thick fatass guns that shoot like pulling the trigger on a brick >playing with plastic guns like fucking legos >being so delusional that you don't realize that all modern pistols have just as many problems as 1911s but everyone still hates in the 1911 to be edgy and since it's the cool thing to do >actually legitimately and unironically believing that at some point you will need to lay covering fire with your compact 9mm Toppest of all keks, my good man.
>>28491351 how could you even think for a sec that a 100 year old gun design could compete with modern firearms they are cool rage guns and have historical significance don't get me wrong but they are outdated AF when it comes to modern handguns they are heaver have more failures and i like .45 and don't like glocks but come on man don't make a fool of yourself
>>28490930 >1911s are most reliable in .45 ACP >it's cool because it's American.
I can't begin.... fuck. A 1911 is a amazing engineering feat for its time, same for the 45 ACP. However your patriot biased leads me to believe any opinion and experience is Murrica. Caliber preferences are subjective, lethality is scientific. Any caliber can be lethal and and any firearm can be functional. Though there are plenty of shit American designs, plenty of lax quality control and plenty of broke-dick 1911's produced by American companies. It's a complex design where at the time required hand fitting. Today you can enjoy a modern custom made example and expect to pay significantly more than competitive models. Enjoy what you can afford however a trend with present times is mass produced, competitively priced, similar items will continue to out sell those higher priced goods. However a Nighthawk Custom won't be in my glove box, nor will it be riding on my hip during long camping trips, or being confiscated by PD when used in a SD situation. My scuffed and beat to hell G21 can fill that role. Not a tear will be shed or curse uttered if it crumbles to dust in my fingers. I have zero attachment to it or my cheaper hand tools like Stanley, they are useful and replaceable which suits my needs.
>>28489871 Of course the Fedora is an outdated design. It came from an era when headwear was designed to be tipped, not to avoid gentlemanly conversation lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your m’ladys operated and to practice being a gentleman until it became second nature, not to design the headwear to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its gentlemen with the best garments possible, unlike today, when our non-euphoric men and women are issued headware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected God believers district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the Fedora IS an outdated design… and that’s exactly why I tip it.
Every single firearm on the planet needs "hand fitting," or in other words, the parts need to be within certain dimensions for the firearm to function. Does that make sense?
The "hand fitting" bullshit started with companies like Wilson Combat who DELIBERATELY oversize their components so that yes, you have to file it down to get it to fit into your gun. They believe it increases accuracy. Does it? I don't know but for a combat handgun, not enough for me to give a shit. Maybe for competition, sure.
The original design of the 1911 was such that hand-fitting was precisely and specifically NOT required, BY DESIGN. That was the whole point of the design. You can see how, logistically, it was much more attractive to have interchangeable parts. The fact is, production guns do this much better than your "custom" guns. Even then, custom guns are still reliable. Matthew Graham is still shooting his Nighthawk GRP Recon after 10,000 rounds and it's still going strong with zero issues.
Nice job comforting yourself on your "scuffed and beat to hell G21" too. I'm glad it makes you feel cool. Yeah I've never seen a 1911 that has seen years of heavy use and continues to be dependable, have you?
But your thick-ass brick, even though it's cheap, has a sketchy past, and is about as fun to shoot as it is to jam toothpicks into my fingernails, will be reliable enough for you and that's fine. Yeah, Glocks work. But don't you fucking say for a second 1911s don't.
A nice Colt or Springfield is around twice the price of a Glock. If cost really bothers you that much, then... feel free. I prefer to have a safe, shootable, carryable, ergonomic, reliable and durable gun that's field-serviceable and straddles the line between carryability, cobcealibility, shootability, safety, and readiness for service absolutely perfectly.
Glocks work sure, but that's about the one and only thing they do well.
They are otherwise equal to other designs. No better, no worse.
The extra capacity gives you extra bulk. That's just the physical reality. It's a tradeoff.
What exactly is so special about Glocks? The only objective complaint against 1911s is the capacity, but I'm not going to be providing covering fire with my fuckin pistol like Chris Costa seems to think he will be doing with his 9,000-round ultra tactical death machine ultra reliable magazines. Also, it's a tradeoff you get for the slimness and concealability of the single stack. At that point it's personal choice.
>>28492165 How often do you lose/ break your gun to warrant buying a new one?
You pay a higher price for the 1911 because it's obselescent in design and manufacturing technique that warrants higher costs over a injection-molded glock. Example, gun is made entirely of steel, which is much harder to tool than modern guns that use extensive use of plastic for the reason of cost-cutting.
But it's by no means unaffordable. Quit being so poor.
>>28492933 >Every single firearm on the planet needs "hand fitting," or in other words, the parts need to be within certain dimensions for the firearm to function. Does that make sense? No because that isn't what hand fitting is. Apparently you missed the industrial revolution and reliably interchanging parts.
What's to argue, you're retarded, anyone who likes guns would never be as retarded as your retardation about glocks has been, we all get it, you're a retarded ass fanboy with retarded ass opinions and you're sure as fuck gonna let us all know how retarded you are, we're all very impressed retard, I can't wait for the next installment of retard gun reviews from you, you're my favorite retard that was ever retarded (y)
>>28493078 Apparently you know nothing about 1911s and did not read the rest of my post.
If someone made Glock roll pins that were deliberately 20% larger than they needed to be with the idea that you or your gunsmith would need to hand fit it to fit into your Glock so that it would fit, does that mean that Glocks would "need hand fitting to be reliable?" No it's fucking fabricated by manufacturers and it is a deliberate move.
The original 1911 design was the farthest thing from "custom hand fitted" as humanly possible BY DESIGN.
>>28492984 >Go ahead and tell me what's wrong about what I said. I'll wait. Ok. While much of this comes down to personal preference, 1911s are not as reliable as modern design for a comparable price point. Why you think that isn't objective is beyond me apparently. It is no longer slim in comparison to other single stacks, which is what made it desirable in the past. >>28493098 I didn't need to read the rest of it because your thesis statement is false. If I needed to read the rest of it you either put your thesis at the bottom for some reason, or you didn't argue your thesis statement.
>>28493132 To add to this, the only reason I would get a Glock is if I wanted a 10mm. I find the ergonomics to be uncomfortable on all glocks I've fired, except the glock 20. Shot softer than .40 or 9m.
>>28493153 Yes. You're a faggot. fuddy5 ACP is best and 1911s are john MOSES browning ultimate creation and this si not even my final form so you better step the fuck off before i unsheath my twin katanas
We can all agree the 1911 does nothing as well as any gun at a comparable price point. Please refer to my above statement about the cost of manufacturing being inherently higher for a quality 1911 product.
That being said, unless you're captain poorfag you can afford whatever handgun you prefer. if you prefer a cheaper handgun that is no-nonsense, get a glock. If you want a quality steel product that will last a lifetime and look good doing so, it's really not a lot more money. A colt runs about 800 bucks or so from what ive' seen.
>>28493171 >>28493201 There's a lot of hate for colt, but i've never had any owners of them complain to me, and the old models are quite valued. Perhaps people underappreciate non-rice 1911's in this day and age. I'm picking up my stainless gov't tomorrow. If it sucks shit i'll complain and make a thread.
>>28493741 You obviously didn't watch them all through.
Other firearms did much worse in similar tests. Most notably Glocks, Sigs, and HKs.
You also didn't listen to the logic and reason or watch MAC's muck test.
You also probably think you're cool and young and hip for saying 1911s don't work because you're so tactical and it probably gives you a sense of belonging to side with a majority of internet bullshitters.
>>28495611 I didn't say 1911's don't work retard. They just don't work as well. There's a single video you posted where a 1911 (Glock vs. 1911) appears to malfunction slightly less frequently but you can't even see the fudd dirtying up the guns so you have no idea what he's actually doing. The MAC video is the only one that's kinda impressive.
>>28495953 Don't work as well? What does that even mean? You can't fire 50,000 rounds in succession without a malfunction? I don't expect that out of any gun because it's unrealistic. Just how many rounds do you plan on firing in a self defense situation? 5? 15? 20? Even 500? Literally any non-shit modern manufacture firearm will do just fine and will function reliably 100%.
I'm just sick of the 1911 parrot meme bullshit. It comes from the 70s and 80s when it was actually true but it's just not anymore. I don't even own a 1911. In fact I have a Glock on my hip right now. But 1911s are fuckin great and they are reliable and durable and great shooting guns. They're easy to shoot accurately and the most concealable full-size gun on the market. I have also grown to appreciate manual safeties and will be switching carry guns as soon as funds allow.
I like both calibers. My pistols are all in .45 though, except my PPK which is in .380. My carry gun is a USP compact .45, though I may pick up a couple 9mm in the future. Also I have a USP45 Tactical as a field/fighting pistol. Next pistol will probably be a 1911 just for shits, then some CZ pistols (SP01, P01) in 9mm.
I like having just two calibers, 45 for all my pistols and 5.56/.223 for my rifles. Makes ammo stocking easier.
>>28496335 >Don't work as well? What does that even mean?
As in they require frequent cleaning and part replacement to function reliably compared to modern guns. As in they are more expensive than a modern gun of equivalent quality. As in they have useless parts like the grip safety that impede use. As in their magazines hold a relatively small number of rounds, and you may not even be able to make them hollowpoints unless you have a new one or you have an aftermarket feed ramp.
It was an amazing gun for its time, but it has been outclassed time and again since at least 1935.
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Reliability%2C-Round-Counts%2C-and-Longevity-in-1911s.html >3,000 rounds: recoil spring and plunger >5,000 rounds: extractor
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/are-glocks-truly-perfection >3,000 rounds: recoil spring >8,000 rounds: slide lock spring >10,000 rounds: trigger spring >possibility of trigger spring breaking within the first 1,000 rounds >slide stop lever commonly malfunctions after normal use >https://youtu.be/2lx7hhKbMrY
>more expensive $500ish vs $1000ish. Yeah you're right. Bitch more about $500. For a tool that you will use the rest of your life, $500 is worth the plethora that 1911s offer over less expensive options. And steel is more expensive than plastic. Oh well, boo hoo. If 1911s cost $3000 I would see your point but for $500 there's not much to piss and moan about.
>useless parts That's your opinion. I like the external safeties. I have a toddler and a newborn. Every little bit helps. You never know.
>impede use Nope. Wrong.
>low magazine capacity True. But for all the other benefits, how much capacity do you really need? I feel good with 9 for CC + spare and 11 for HD. I would love if it held 50 rounds but I'm not that worried about capacity.
>>28489782 I own several weapons, but due to ease of use, accuracy, and familiarity, the Beretta 9mm I own is my go to weapon It isn't the most powerful, lightest, or prettiest weapon but for me, it is the most effective
>>28490009 It's like Chicago fags not shutting the fuck up about their pizza.
Mayb3 your pizza is not s hot shut as you think it is when you keep on having to promote it, when a New Yorkers says their pizza is the best once in a calm and unexcited manner and never bring up the issue again.
>Tfw cops in your county used to carry 9mm >tfw a sheriffs deputy shot a meth head 6 times and the guy kept coming >tfw the sheriffs deputy was stabbed and seriously injured >tfw when all cops in your county now carry .40s and .45s >Inb4 stopping power is just a meme Ballistics and Internet claims aside, when you become a LEO and see first hand a guy on a crack bender shake off mace, a taser and a couple 9mm rounds, you carry a larger caliber
Caliber arguments are a fun exercise in mathematical and ballistic data. They are, however, useless to have.
Carry a defensive firearm that you can shoot well, is reliable, and you are comfortable with. I carry an 9mm S&W Shield because it is practical for my purposes, I can empty a magazine into an 5in plate at 7 yards, and I have the most practice with it. My wife carries a .380 Bodyguard because she can dump her magazine into an 8in plate with that thing... As time progresses she may become proficient with and decide to use a 9mm. I may move to a larger caliber if I find a similarly-sized compact that shoots bigger chunks of lead with similar results.
I am also very proficient with a .22 pistol, but I haven't found a handgun that cycles rimfire rounds as well as 9mm. That and .22LR is already less reliable as a whole.
So, I perform the best with 9mm...
While it might be great to sling .45 or something, it doesn't matter what I shoot if I can't hit shit.
>>28497979 >is presented with actually legitimate facts >h-haha you're... you're trying hard, see my reaction image? >i-it depends on the generation if glock! You posted the wrong one! :'( really glocks are reliable! It just depends which one you buy and where and how.
Go read a book and grow up, maybe do a little research so you can base your asinine statements on fact.
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