>>28476880 > Every marine is a rifleman We just don't have anything similar here. There's a clear distinction between "fighters" (kravi), "supports" (tomeh) and "non-combatants" (jobnik). > Jobnik That's the kid in your pic (that stands in the recruitment center). Judging by the tag on his shoulder and the pin on his chest, he's going to be a logistics NCO (our NCO system, as well as ranking, is a bit different) in Home-front Command. All he's gonna do in 3 years of service, is to sit in an office with an A\C and manage the bureaucracy related to logistics (it might be fuel purchase, managing toilet paper shipments to outposts etc). Most of the jobniks (as suggested by the name job-nik), only work 9am to 5pm and than go back home. Boot camp for this guys lasts: 1 week (for handicaps and other physically "challenged", like in your pic), 3 weeks (for intell corp or other specialized units) and 5 weeks for the rest. The boot camp includes shooting 20 bullets (yea, only 20), a bit of getting screamed on (but a just bit), a bit of running (but just a bit, or not at all if you got a medical permit, which 75% of them have) and that's it. Than there are professional courses that last from 3 weeks (like for the guy in your pic, to 2 years for advanced stuff in intell corp school) This guys get to visit combat, or even "hot spots", even less often than I get to visit other solar systems. Pt. 1
>>28482052 > Tomeh This guys are all the combat support roles: artillery, rescue teams (the guys that go to places like Nepal after the earthquake), field intell, armor etc. Their boot camp, iirc, lasts 7 months + 4 months of "advanced training" (specialized courses). This guys are getting basic combat training and are even get to do some more advanced stuff, but it's not the focus as it is assumed they won't engage in direct combat (if all goes according to plan) and that it's better get them trained in operating their tools. Some of them, like the artillery special units do receive full "kravi" training. They do routine security and sometimes even participate in some missions. pt.2
>>28482054 > Kravi Those are the guys that go to combat and you mostly see in pics. They're divided among the different infantry divisions and other commando & SF units. Their boot camp lasts for 7 months and the advanced training for another 6. Aside of commandos and SF, the regular infantry divisions are divided into paratroopers, amphibious (marines) and light. Not much else to say about them as they're just the fighting force of the IDF all their training and service is focused on that. pt.3
>>28482052>>28482054>>28482062>>28476824 Now, how, in my eyes, all of that is compared to other armies? I won't go into "who's better?", because that's not how things work. Attempting such comparison just won't be serious.
So let's start with the obvious: conscription. Many will say: it's a great weakness. Instead of denying that, I simply add: and a great streanth. What do I mean? Due to conscript service, a lot of the manpower the army receives is unfit for duty- not physically, but rather mentally. People who would never go to the army otherwise and that will disobey orders, cause chaos and whatnot. But it must be remembered that every coin has 2 sides. Because alongside those who are unfit and would never even think about joining the army, there'r just as many, if not far more, that are fit for service and would just as well never think about joining the army because they had other plans; athletes, future academics and all the sorts that grow to be the best that the nation has to offer. People that if not for conscription, would just move on with their lives- now first give their skill to the army. pt.4
>>28482357 So where is the place where it all comes to, where it's decided if conscription is the army's greatest weakness or strength? The sorting system. And thank g-d they nailed that part. Sure no system is perfect, but over the years the IDF has developed a unique sorting system that allows it to make the best of each soldiers skills. Many kids with potential are marked as early as 5th grade at school. The army employs many after-school classes for kids that will one day their cyber or technological specialists. The local culture supports the army so much that school students are looking to get ready for the army early on so they go to private fitness-schools dedicated for future conscripts and by the time they arrive at the army they have the physical and mental readiness of an experienced soldier. And in the end- the army's system knows to sort them very well; who will go to be a "kravi", who lacks the mentality for direct combat and will go to be a "tomeh" or jobnik, who lacks the physicality and will a "jobnik", who among the jobniks is smart enough to be an intell analyst and so on. That is the best that having high demands but little resources can give you- you get creative and look for ways to make your weakness into a streanth.
>>28482393 I will not go into detail about jobnik training/courses as it's either super basic ("sign that document, not that one") or secret (intell courses), and will only sum-up the combat training for the kravi guys as the details are several books worth of things to say. 70 km (44 miles) in full gear is standard practice. Shooting ranges, movement, concealment are all daily things. Combat training covers open field, urban combat, symmetrical, asymmetrical and all sorts of COIN. The IDF mostly trains in it's own unique doctrines and technics (even shooting and stances use a locally developed doctrine) and is considered one of the only armies in the world that knows how to fight on divisional and above levels- to a point where all NATO members constantly send delegations to attempt and study this (yay for us, we're special :DDDD). The gear is always starts from 70's surplus and are improved over the course of training to the more advanced stuff that you'd expect to see in other western armies (though, said 70 surplus are not thrown away and tend find their way into different places). Considering all of the above- I have little doubt in my heart that the IDF soldiers are well trained, (mostly) well equip and are extremely motivated. How well? Well enough to not fall short of any army you can think off. >>28482364 :) הכל באהבה אחי. גם לא אמרתי שתומך לא משפיע טנק קטלני טיפה יותר ממחלקת לוחמים. אבל גם אם האדם שבטנק ינצח- הוא עדיין יהיה תומך.
>>28482440 >גם אם האדם שבטנק ינצח- הוא עדיין יהיה תומך.
אז למה יש לי תעודת לוחם, משכורת של לוחם ויציאות של לוחם? היית בלטרון פעם? ראית את הקיר עם כל השמות של החללים? זה שאנחנו לא הולכים ברגל לא אומר שאנחנו לא לוחמים. אנחנו בכל זאת תמיד בחזית ומסכנים את החיים שלנו כמו כל חירניק.
>>28482485 שוב- אני מסכים לחלוטין. הבעיה פה היא כנראה בהגדרה. אני יודע שלפני כמה שנים, הצבא פתח וועדה שהיתה אמורה לעשות סדר בבלאגן של ההגדרות האלו, אבל אני לא סגור על מה ניסגר עם זה. ההגדרה שאותי חינכו עליה ואליה אני רגיל, היא שקרבי הוא חי"רניק- וזהו. אני לא מתנגד לרעיון של הכנסת השריון תחת הגדרת "לוחם". אבל בראש, אני עדיין אינסטינקטיבית מכניס שיריונרים לאותה קטגוריה כמו טייסים- מפעילים כלי שההשפעה שלו על הקרב חשובה יותר מכל חי"רניק והפעילות שלהם היא ממש לא הרחק מטווח סכנה, אבל עדיין לא לוחמים. אין לי בעיה לומר שאתה צודק ואני טועה- ולא רק כמס שפתיים, אבל משום מה זה תמיד יראה לי קצת לא טבעי.
>>28482534 תשמע- הוויכוח הזה הוא אין-סופי, ומבוגר יותר משנינו. חבר של המשפחה שלי שהיה שיריונר סיפר שאותם ריבים היו גם ב-72, וחבר אחר שהוא טייס סיפר שבשנות ה-80 הוא ניהל מאבק כדי להגדיר טייסים כלוחמים. שואל לדעתי האישית? אני חושב שמתעסקים יותר מדי בשטויות של מי תומך מי לוחם ואצל מי הסבתא עם הגלגלים. יש לך מדים? יש לך נשק? זהו, מפה כבר לא אכפת לי אם אתה מגדיר את עצמך לוחם או מזדהה מינית כמסוק תקיפה. 5.56 או 120- שניהם מסירים שישליק.
>>28482547 >ר שאותם ריבים היו גם ב-72, וחבר אחר שהוא טייס סיפר שבשנות ה-80 הוא ניהל מאבק כדי להגדיר טייסים כלוחמים. >שואל לדעתי האישית? אני חושב שמתעסקים יותר מדי בשטויות של מי תומך מי לוחם ואצל מי הסבתא עם הגלגלים. אמן.
No matter what your personal opinion of Israel and Palestine is you can't ignore the simple fact that Israel has more hard and soft power. They're stonger than Palestine so the land is theirs to do with as they please.
You don't see the US rushing to give back it's land to the natives. If Europe was still strong they would of held onto their colonial territories.
I hate to be an edgelord but might still makes right, it's never changed.
>>28483345 >>28487356 >>28477045 It's kind of hard to take back your land on your own while the Israelis are backed by 2 of the richest countries for the sole purpose of "muh 6 million" if us and Britain cut off all resources and aid. Israel would crumble on its own
>>28477398 >>28477062 Anyone wanna discuss future strategy? I've heard the overall Hezbollah strategy is a total Zerg rush into metropolitan Israel via tunnel and Humvee, to take hostages and avoid air strikes. Which I think would be an insane war.
>>28494957 I got one >be me >last month of idf conscript >Imgonnamissthispace.jidf >Be patrolling Jerusalem >sandy manny starts honking his horn in traffic >other people start honking >I go up to the man and shoot him in the head >be offered promotion. >"anon you killed more dune coons than anyone else. Please join the Israeli army as sergeant" >now my job is literally going to muzzie houses and bulldoze them for glorious Hebrew settlers
>>28496988 3 years for man, 2 for woman, 3 for woman volunteering for combat roles. And yea, by the end I found myself climbing on an antenna tower to scream "I want out of this place". The moment I got the last signature on my release form was one of the happiest moments in my life. Damn it, the army was fun. No amount of shekels can convince me to go back, but I don't regret a single moment I spent there. And Is till do reserve duty at least 20 days a year (as all fit for duty civis, that's also required by law).
former idf here, i would gladly stay and talk but got to go to work, plus it's impossible to have a proper discussion about anything related to israel or IDF on 4chan, too many people are influenced by misinformation to the point where it doesn't matter what's being said the person just wont take a step back and think about what's being said
What are the possibilites on working in the military after the service? And is the pay good for example? I mean, often when you see americans talking about their military sometimes it's "ok, choose this thing in the army, it's nice intelligence job, and after your service you can do the same thing in private sector with much better pay"
... and also, could you explain this Raful cap thingie to me? So when you see them on sale, aren't they usually some sort of "commercial" versions of them, like almost same as in the military but slightly different or what? And how does and issue raful cap differ from those commercial ones?
And also, this one seems to have a emblem on it, do different units have their emblems on their caps or what?
>>28497297 During the service- you can volunteer for officer's course. Depending on which unit you're in, you sign up for additional year/year-and-a-half beyond the standard 3 years (or 2 for girls). After that you can extend your contract, but it's sometimes depending on your performance (witnessed officers getting kicked out of the army cause they were abysmal) and whether they have a role to give you (the entire role sheet is changing each year according to budget and relevancy). If you're good, they'll move you between roles just to keep you from leaving. Some roles do offer just staying after you're done with the service (but with proper paycheck), but that's an extinction/evolution of the NCO system that applies to conscripts as well. As for getting a job after the army; the army is so integrated into the country's life, that kids in school that know what they want to do when they're big first aim to get a role in relevant position in the army so it'll give them a boost/head-start. High-tech companies are littered with ex-SigInt/EliInt/WhateverInt guys, tons of ex comms-corp guys in programming classes in the universities, half the truck drivers in the country where also truck drivers in the army and so on.
>>28497321 The Raful caps (aka "tem-bel hat" (fool/stupied)) are sort of "working hat" when around base. Every base has a stock of them, and they're completely optional (outside of boot camp, where they're mandatory)- so no one bothers with simple commercial versions. Many (most) units, however, do throw in money and order costume hats with the unit's emblem, just for the "HOOHAH" sake. But they also do it with everything: dogtag covers, wallets, backpacks, knifes, phone covers, etc.
Will answer more question/better explain this ones in the morning (if the thread is still up), cause right now I'm too tired to even spell check to see if I wrote anything that makes sense or at least forms a cohesive sentence. Good night /k/.
>>28504317 Yes. Remember that as said in posts above, most girls have nothing to do with field roles (especially combat ones) and sit in office for 5am to 9pm and then go home, so their hair simply must be tied back. Girls (or woman? Not sure how I call 18yo kid with a gun) that actually do ground work either gather their into tighter knot (still long, but doesn't flap as much and doesn't get in they way) or just make it into a cocoon (pic related).
>>28504317>>28504374 And it turns out that this is a thing. Apparently, dreadlocks technically don't violate any rules, so some (though rarely) girls find them comfy. The army just doesn't bother with officers meeting required to forbid this. As to why long hair is allowed in all this forms? Cause it's a conscript army that tries to be thoughtful of it's soldier that not necessarily choose to serve and soon will be citizens again.
How popular is doing the service in the border guard? Isn't that pretty much the place where you're most likely to do something like launching tear gas grenades on people. Or how peaceful is it novadays?
>>28504909 It's relatively popular, though the stigma is that they're bunch of rednecks and it's relatively small (about the size of a division or so). And no, it's never peaceful. Always a chance to launch tear gas grenades, even as an IDF.
>>28505024 Ok, because that's the thing i pondered the most during my service. Because naturally in my case, any sort of conflict or real military situation seems really far-fetched. Which means the conscription felt mostly like a really long camping trip with weapons.
... eventhough, of course you swear to defend the country etc. so when the time comes you have to go. Always just wondered what it feels to go to military service knowing that there has been some smaller military conflicts in the recent times, and if another one comes, you might have to there.
So, how "good" is the IDF from a teaching and pedagogical perspective? Like, are the teaching methods and other things modern and good? In a sense that we all know that the French foreign legion is traditional, y'know in that sort of retarded way.
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