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So why does the M1 Abrams platform use a...
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

Thread replies: 64
Thread images: 6
So why does the M1 Abrams platform use a smoothbore gun? I find it confusing that most modern projectile weaponry uses rifling but for some reason this does not. I know the cannon is still accurate but wouldn't it make more sense to be even more accurate with rifling?

The only downside to rifling that I could think of would be that eventually the projectile is going to sway in the direction of the rifling, however I didn't think with such a short travel time it would be noticeable.

Also I couldn't find a tank general thread to ask this in so I apologize if I just missed the thread.
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>>28448538
Rifled barrels wear out a lot faster. Easier to rifle the projecticle.
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>>28448538
Can't shoot HEAT.
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>>28448538
Pretty much only the British MTB uses rifled barrels.
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>>28448559
>>28448551
and there you go OP.

Turns out you're not clever at all and should now shut the fuck up.
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>>28448538
Allows using more ammo types.
Leopard 2 also has smooth bore.
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>>28448604
Whoa now. Op just asked a legitimate question. one that Google would have answered in about 5 seconds but it wasn't a troll. Just not worth a thread.
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>>28448538
>So why does the M1 Abrams platform use a smoothbore gun?

Longer barrel life, cheaper HEAT and sabot rounds. Drawbacks being accuracy and more expensive HE-shells.

>>28448551
>Easier to rifle the projecticle.

Are you stupid or something. Ammunition for smoothbore tank guns is fin stabilized.
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>>28448628

>Leopard 2 also has smooth bore

What a surprise since the m1 uses the same gun.
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>>28448538
APFSDS and HEAT rounds don't like spinning.
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>>28448697
Leo 2 guns are longer and use different ammo types.
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>>28448559
You can, but it's a bit tricky.
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>>28448770

Leopard 2 originally used L/44 tube, L/55 only became a thing with Leo2A6. Abrams uses same L/44 gun with modifications, biggest one being simpler recoil system.
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>>28448559
>He doesn't knows about Obus G, 3UBK4, or Bastion ATGM.
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>>28448648
It is actually a myth that there is a tangible difference in accuracy between rifled guns and fin stabilized.
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What are the advantages of HEAT over SABOT? All I can think of is that it doesn't lose penetration over time. But SABOT has higher velocity and isn't negated by spaced armor or ERA.
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>>28448538
You're missing a puzzle piece in your brain necessary to making sense of this mystery and it's okay, I'll provide it. Projectiles fired from big guns like those on tanks operate quite differently than a regular bullet. You don't need to grab grooves and spin the projectile when you can literally put tiny foldable wings (self deploying stabilizer fins) on the projectile. The fins provide a similar stabilizing effect to that which you would get from the spinning bullet.

These projectiles also are made of more than just metals. No copper jacketed lead solids here, were talking active explosive payloads. Some of which have a serious problem with spinning. Essentially, projectile tech has gotten to the point that rifling is now obsolete in some applications. Not in general but for this system, it is. More than likely, we'll see further advancement in guided projectile tech and continue to move away from rifled barrels, at least in large applications like this.
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>>28449120
HEAT with fragmentation can be used on a wider variety of targets.
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>>28449120
Maximum effective range and ability to engage medium or soft targets with moderate effect if you had an ammo supply issue.
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>>28449120
Sabots will overpenetrate soft targets and won't do as much damage as HEAT.
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>>28449223
Rifled barrels typically have to use HESH for soft targets, don't they?
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1) HEAT rounds get fucked up by spinning from rifling. HEAT is useful against many different targets.

2) SABOT can get kinda fucked by spinning from rifling. There's ways around it* but whatever.

3) accuracy with modern FCS and APFSDS is enough that smoothbore is fine.

*the brits still use rifled barrels because of their fetish for HESH ammo. Their Sabot is some special design that works with rifling.
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>>28449258
Hello War Thunder.
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>>28448538
it would be hard to shoot 1000 tungsten balls at the same time from a rifled barrel
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>>28449519
gunner, troops, canister

http://www.gd-ots.com/LCA_120mm_M1028.html
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>>28449063
>heat projectile
>atgm
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>>28449258

Bitch please !
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>>28449594
Yes? What are you trying to imply?
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>>28449612
they don't have the same properties. velocity, speed of reload, etc
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>>28448538
Go read a few years worth of technical posts on Tanknet and come back later. There you have people with access to scientific papers and know what they are talking about, which you won't find on /k/
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>>28449594
>heat projectile
You just said it can't fire HEAT and never specified that an ATGM doesn't count.
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>>28449610
oh man thats just mean....
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>>28449120
Sabot isn't an acronym, fucktard, it refers to the device which holds the penetrator in place and flies away upon leaving the muzzle in its discarding form. It's APFSDS or APFSDS-T
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>>28448648
>>28449071
So why don't we use fin stabilised bullets for small arms? Barrels last longer and smoothbore barrels are cheaper. Or would it not work on a small scale?
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>>28448538
smooth-bore is the more advanced you nigger projectiles are fin stabilized. we are not shooting cannonballs anymore.
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>>28451119
it would work but make ammunition more expensive. also basically shotguns and slugs work this way.
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>>28448600
India uses a 120mm rifled gun for the Arjun and South Korea uses 105mm M68 guns on its K1 tanks.
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>>28452326
>>28451119
the real difference as far as i can tell is the speed of projectile. under a certain speed (and thus range and penetration) rifled barrels are more economic more foolproof. but after a certain speed the rifling becomes a hindrance. that is why for some guns it works great for others smooth-bore is better.
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>>28452326

The K1 is old, the K1A1 uses the KM256 120 mm smoothbore gun.
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You don't need rifling in the rocket age. Fins work from rockets to bullets. Rifling just induces more friction and heat which wear out the barrel.
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You also get higher velocity. Which increases range and penetration. Not sure of the actual numbers, or if they are even meaningful in size, but they are there.

Pic Unrelated
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>>28452741
South Korea uses both versions still, and is in the process of upgrading them (K1E1 and K1A2 respectively).
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>>28450390
That doesn't make it any less of a projectile. And it uses a shaped charge.
Also, I'm pretty sure the 3UBK10 round containing the missile loads as fast as an ordinary round. It's SALH guidance, no need for wires.
Besides, neither the Obus G nor the 3UBK4 are missiles.
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>>28448559
http://uxoinfo.com/blogcfc/client/includes/uxopages/Mulvaney_Details.cfm?Ord_Id=P127
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>>28452367
Wouldn't say range is a benefit to rifled, as the rifled ones have issues with HEAT shells, HEAT shells being (as far as I know) the best shell for long range in most situations.
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>>28449071
It is but not on the level of big guns. Artillery including tank guns shot 4-5 MOA extreme spread.
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>>28453862
HEAT fin stabilised shells has their own issues. Mostly losing stabilisation and accuracy at low speeds at extreme ranges. This why french developed guffy rotation stabilised HEAT round >>28448790 for their gun with internal core mounted on the ball bearings.
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>>28450438
>BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE
>Not only does it bounce around inside the tank killing everything inside, it also peppers them with a healthy dose of pellets!
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>>28452939
A ROOM...WITH A MOOSE!....
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>>28449541
I fucking love that the US still uses canister shot.
Shine on you crazy diamonds.
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>>28449120
HEAT retains its penetrative capabilities regardless of velocity whilst an APFSDS' steadily drops with increasing distance and decreasing velocity due to drag.
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>>28448538
Bump
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So what are some of the weirder tank rounds out there? HESH has always appealed to me because squash is a funny word and canister shot is also amusing, has anyone tried anything like a fuel air bomb with a big pneumatic pump on the front of the shell forcing fuel into the atmosphere upon impact and then igniting it like a mini MOAB?
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>>28448538

Because once your projectile`s length:diameter ratio goes above a certain point, fin/drag stabilization becomes more effective than spin.

If small arms had a projectile 10 times longer than its diameter, it would probably be better to use a smoothbore.
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>>28448538
The rifling is to stabilize the projetile.
Modern projectiles stabilze themselves, they have little fins.
Also like the other anons said it makes the gun more durable and versatile.
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>>28453862
>Wouldn't say range is a benefit to rifled,
i don't think i said that
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>>28448600
Russian T-90 uses a rifled 125mm
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>>28461879

This is completely false
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>>28461879
Russia hasnt used rifled guns on their tanks since the T-62
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>>28461950
>T-62
>rifled gun
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>>28449610
Why are their metal balls in the tip of that?
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>>28464480
to fuck up anyone inside duh
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>>28464480
Ricktoche inside the tank!!!! Think almost omni-directional Anti personal Mine. Generally contained by the still present outer shell of the struck tank.
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>>28451119
Small arms barrels are cheap and easy to change compared to tank barrels, and small arms shoot many many many more bullets than a tank does.
Thread replies: 64
Thread images: 6
Thread DB ID: 372238



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