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Washington goes full Bongland
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

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Knives ruled as "not constitutionally protected arms" by WA state supreme court: http://q13fox.com/2015/12/31/state-supreme-court-rules-paring-knives-not-protected-by-second-amendment/
>>
What the fuck.

Knives have existed in some form for nearly ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS. I didn't realize there was mass paring knife attacks going on in Seattle.
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>>28447939
what about spoons?
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>>28447939
Are baseball bats weapons yet?
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just carry a gun then, it is much more efficient.
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>>28447949
>>28447969
I honestly don't know, I was alerted to this fuckery on FB.
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>>28447939
Jesus fucking christ america stop trusting your fucking government and do your God damn jobs and kick them the fuck out. Oh wait your all too lazy or content or passive aggressive to do shit. Are you not at all startled at how clearly desperate your government is for more and more power, and more and more control over the people? Do you not see anything wrong with that? Do you think cause you aren't personally effected right it means nothing?
Fucking. Step. Up.
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I'm confused as to why this case would ever get brought up before a court
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>>28447994
Thanks for the advice, GB
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>>28447939
>knives
>not constitutionally protected arms
Do these IDIOTS even know how the Founding Fathers fought in the French and Indian Wars and the American Revolution? How the living fuck are knives, even kitchen knives, not arms? People used fucking tomahawks for multipurpose activities since 200+ years ago.
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well I guess Obomo is taking the "everything can be a weapon, lets nerf the world hurr" arguements into legit consideration
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Since the say its a tool not a weapon why can't I carry it around Seattle? There's nothing saying tools are illegal to carry
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>>28448027
State law dipshit.
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>>28448044
I think the using it in self defense part is the issue here.
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>>28448044
>There's nothing saying tools are illegal to carry
I am reminded of the Bong that got arrested for bringing his chainsaw to murder trees.
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>>28448044
this
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>>28447939
It's about time we get rid of these devices to make our state safer.
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>>28448073
Wasn't he also drunk too?
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>America will be European in your lifetime
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>>28448071
But that's nothing new. Knives in self defense have pretty much always been a gray legal area afaik

Besides if some dude is trying to kill you and all you've got is a knife you might as well try and kill him back, fuck the law there
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>>28448044
...what if this is a roundabout way to make knife carry more legal? If it's not a weapon, weapon laws don't apply. Find a law saying you can't defend yourself with a "tool".
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>>28448096
I guess pocketknives for self defense is A-OK.
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>>28447939
>He calls the knife a utility tool, not a weapon and says that any common object may be used as a weapon but won’t trigger the constitutional protections afforded to “arms.”

Am I reading this right?

>is a tool, not a weapon
>thus not protected as an "arm"
>but can be used as a weapon
>thus is legally treated as an arm

so

>it's a tool being treated as an arm, but not protected as an arm

Even removing my pro-weapons bias, the logic is not there. Why do they even try to dupe us anymore. Just stop insulting us and straight up say "fuck the 2nd amendment, we banned it because politics".
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>>28448139
>we banned it because feelings
FTFY
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The 2A was meant to affirm the right to actual arms, so that you could fight a war or defend yourself. No sane person would put a paring knife in the category of "arms"; therefore they are not covered under the second amendment.

I'm not saying I agree with the law in question, just that the second amendment doesn't apply to paring knives even though it applies to pistols or rifles and the like.
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>>28448159
same thing
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>>28448054
Law of equivalence, if it's not a weapon in State X, then State Y has to recognise that it's not a weapon either.
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>>28448377
This is not how state law works. You're confusing federal law, which is all states, with state law, which is a single state. WA supreme court is not SCOTUS.
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>>28448170
A paring knife can be used in war even if it is not optimal. Especially by militia who have nothing else on them. It is arms. It is a weapon.
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Are you guys even reading? It's five fucking sentences, read the damn article.
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>>28447969
Depends on whether or not the cop wants to arrest you.
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>>28447939

A paring knife? As in the fucking little kitchen knife you cut your fruit and vegetables up with? Somebody was packing that walking around or some shit?
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>>28448170
You know, I could accept that, even. Switchblades and Hi-Points and the like not being constitutionally-protected arms.

As soon as the NFA is abolished.

Don't know about you, but I'd trade nigger murder pistols for unrestricted assault rifles.
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>>28448898
niggers will still have glocks, meanwhile yoy can no longer cc

democrats will use this as a chance to improve stats by arresting more whites and ignoring blacks

anon do NOT buy a gun to feel safe while ignoring politics

the dems are communists. there is no such thing as a safe communist
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>>28448139
I didn't read the article, but there might be a kicker in play here.

Like in Canada, flare guns are not arms and are not treated as arms unless they are used in the comission of a crime, after which they will be considered arms.

It's a tool until you commit a crime/self defence yourself with it, maybe.
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>The 5-4 ruling includes a strongly worded dissent, saying the Seattle law is too broad and is likely unconstitutional.

>Knives are not covered under the 2nd amendment
>But this law is still likely unconstitutional
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>>28448044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1mFQG3tJg
ask this guy
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B..but...Amerifats NEED knives to STAB motherfuckers! MUH RIGHTS!
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>>28449035

>the dissent disagrees with the idea that knives aren't covered under the 2nd amendment, so therefore the decision is unconstitutional.

>Lern 2 judiciary
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Carrying a knife for self-defense is silly but it shouldn't be prohibited.
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>>28449036
Jesus Christ. What the fuck...
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>>28449069
>Carrying a knife for self-defense is silly
>I'd rather use my fingernails
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>>28449095
I'd rather use a gun desu
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>>28449095
Hell, even telescopic baton is beter than a knife for self defence.
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>>28449095
No one wins a knife fight, I'd honestly rather use my fists and feet over my 3 in folding knife if I didn't have a gun.
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>>28447939
It's a bit more nuanced than that.

>He calls the knife a utility tool, not a weapon
>and says that any common object
>may be used as a weapon but won’t
>trigger the constitutional protections
>afforded to “arms.”

Looking for a link to the majority opinion and the decent now.

Reporting on federal supreme court hearings is rare enough, but at least NPR sometimes gives readings of the debate portion. Not even they cover the state supreme court hearings.
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i've personally been held at knife point in seattles university district while walking to a friends place after a night of drinking on the ave. and you know what i did, i stabbed that fucker in the side with a $10 chinese switchblade my friend gave me before he could stab me then i ran to the parking lot that the police usually chilled at and they arrested him, took my statement and i never heard anything from the seattle pd.

im glad i dont have friends at uw anymore cause leaving the main ave is sketchy as fuck.
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>>28447939
It likely won't hold up due to the court also saying that the law is probably unconstitutional as written (too broad).
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>>28449250
Here we go.

It's 50 pages, but should cover everything. The sound bytes that make for profitable news don't bother with this stuff.


http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&filename=906084MAJ

....and you can't post PDFs on this board. Ok. Download the PDF from the link then.
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>>28449177
This

Not arguing either side because I carry 2 knives daily. (not cause I'm a cunty dumbass who wants a knife fight, one is a utility blade, other is for whittling/skinning/looking at) but no one and I mean even people who have trained to fight with knives, wants to be in a knife fight. It's like any kind of real fight; wildly enjoyable to watch on TV but get cut/hit/shot just one time and holy fuck you realize how unrealistic that shit is.

I'm on my 4th year as a bouncer at a little college bar and I've only been cut one time. It was with a broken bottle but it cut like a knife. We nearly beat that dude to death too. Let me just lay this out for you nice and plainly, you will get cut if the blades come out. If you get cut, you will bleed a lot. It will not be fun. You will not be fine. It will require stitches.

I've been in more piles of swinging arms than I care to admit but I don't fuck with knives. Not to mention, unless you're very skilled with a knife, you're going to lose vs a medium sized blunt object every time. Stool, ball bat, axe handle, pool cue all win against your mall ninja folder.

Tl;dr keep you knives in your pockets for your own sake and everyone elses
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This is all Bush's fault. The conservatives ran amok for 8 years and literally ruined the country so the liberals once they did some token house cleaning are going to do the same thing only liberal this time.

someone wake me up from this nightmare
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>>28449331
Footnotes on pages 4 and 7 seem enlightening.


>This result stems from the limited scope of Evans's appeal. Evans argues only that the
Seattle ordinance in question violates his right to bear arms. Amicus curiae Washington
>Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers newly raises the contention that the ordinance is
>unconstitutionally vague and thus violates the due process clause of the Fourteenth
Amendment and Washington Constitution,

>We are mindful of-and expressly renew-the concern expressed in Justice Alexander's
concurring opinion in
>Montana: many knives banned under the Seattle ordinance may be
arms deserving constitutional protection.
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>>28447939
>mfw I can ccw my glock 26 with a 33rd mag in vegas, but can't carry my esee izula
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>>28447949

There is no spoon.
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>>28447949
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>>28447994
They've spent the last 70+ years whittling away our means to assemble, participate in militias, and actually present a threat.

To be completely honest, the people who are fed up right now and ready to act don't know where to start. There's no way to find local sympathizers and no secure means of communication other than word of mouth.

When you look into militias, you'll find they are some of the most secretive civilian organizations around. The ones that matter were formed over the course of many years and have no paper trail behind them. Getting in is a matter of knowing someone personally, etc.

The best most of us can do right now is to just be prepared on an individual level.

We've fallen from the days of minutemen, for certain. Those times are lost to generations past, but minutemen might be in demand soon.
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>>28448044
I've always referred to knives and firearms as tools. Tools make work easier. Knives make it easier to cut and open some things. Firearms make it easier to throw projectiles or put holes in things (for example).

Weather it becomes a weapon is a matter of intent.
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>>28447981
Hard to cut a steak with a gun.
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>>28447939
What about bayonets?
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>>28449716
Shoot it.
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>>28449177
>>28449154
>>28449102
LOL, the way things are going in Amerifat, you chubby bastards better LEARN to use a knife!
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>>28449762
Is this a raid or just a particularly big influx?
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>>28449315
But...but...NO ONE wins in a knife fight! It's not possible to defend yourself with a knife! see:
>>28449177
>>28449154
>>28449102
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>>28449376
>walking down the street
>jumped by three ofay
>getting beaten to death
>have a pocket knife
>But wait! Some asshole on the internet said I can't defend myself with a knife, even though men having been doing that for millenia!
>keep my knife in my pocket for my own sake
>die
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>>28449775
That guy looks like the slav version of Trombley.
"Comrade Sergeant i did not get to shoot anyone!"
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>>28449390
This. After all the fiscal conservative talk, we all watched W spend a trillion dollars on pointless war. Because the Republicans demonstrated they are full of shit, we now must suffer through several democratic administrations.
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>>28449775
The latter. We've seen it all week.
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>>28449635
Spoken like a true lawyer. But who can really determine intent until after the fact? Even then, really only the person that did the intending can define what their intent was. That intent shit hinges on impossible circumstances. One being the existence of an honest human thought.

No one should be able to define my intent when I leave the house with anything and I hate that word so much in a legal sense. I'm not arguing the weapons are tools point you made because I agree with it. I disagree with the point at which they become weapons, which you say is only if you intend them to be.

Why? Because intent is a slippery slope. You don't intend to have to take a life when you leave with a CCW piece but if the court asks what you DID intend to do with it, you can't say "hurr cut tomatoes and drive nails." You have to say you intended to defend yourself and your family from threats you may encounter. A BLM jury from Chicago is going to smear the line between "threats" and "getting his life together" like they always do. Then, before you know it, we've got a case going to SCOTUS about whether concealed carry is attempted first degree murder because you leave your house planning to kill someone.

I INTEND for all my guns and knives to be weapons and if the need arises I INTEND to kill the person posing the threat to me. Make no mistake about my intentions.
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>>28449845
Hear, hear.

At the end of the day:
>"Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 (and hopefully the case goes your way)"
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>>28447939
"SEATTLE (AP) — A divided Washington Supreme Court ruled Thursday that a Seattle law prohibiting people from carrying fixed-blade knives such as kitchen utensils for self-defense does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment."

This can't be real.
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>>28449810
>pull put 3 inch pocket knife while getting furiously beaten
>stab one guy in the leg
>all 3 realise you have a knife
>6 feet stomp your fingers to bone pulp
>stabbed 93 times with own knife
>die anyway

Have you ever been in a fight you lost? I mean actually had your shit kicked in? Because when you're on the losing end of a bad one, a knife isn't going to help you much.

>inb4 karate jujitsu black belt kick boxing mma champ

Not even "insert action hero's name" can take on a pack of wild dindus from the ground. If you think you can, well, all I can say is film it.
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>>28447939
>any year
>enjoying or even glancing at Fox News
>not being a deformed faggot
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>>28449923
>Implying there is a more tolerable news source on television
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When the second amendment was drafted bayonets were an important tool of war at this point they aren't really useful
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>>28447939
>Knives ruled as "not constitutionally protected arms"

How the fuck is it not?
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>>28447939
>stab guy with knife
>charged with "assault with a deadly weapon"
>argue a knife is not a weapon due to State Supreme Court ruling
>Charge reduced to "assault"
>Criminals now use knives in all crimes because it will result in less time

Such a great legal precedent.
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>>28448377
Europoor please don't act like you know US law. It is a clusterfuck of edge cases and special state laws
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>>28449908
>assailants honor you for not using your knife
>stop stomping you for your sense of fair play
>everything turns out better than expected
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>>28449833
>tfw I've been on /pol/ the last week because they're more freedom loving and pro gun than /k/ right now
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>>28449908
>Have you ever been in a fight you lost?

No because I don't start shit with people or go to the fucking hood.
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>>28447939
So basically we simply still cannot legally CONCEAL fixed blades over 4" or whatever.
>look, it's fucking nothing.
Although I lean towards the dissent's case in this matter and it's unfortunate nothing changed for the better, whatever, people will keep carrying folding knives.
I'd like to believe the state supreme court's ruling that they are tools could be exploited in some manner.
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>>28448093
>>>/pol/
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>>28450056
>No
Then don't talk about shit you don't know about.

>don't start shit with people or go to the hood

I can tell you're definitely a young suburbanite. You know us white people can fight too? I know it's hard to believe but if you lay down your political correctness and sensitivity and just get pissed over something old fashioned, you can participate in non-hate crime violence! Something like spilling alcohol on you or hitting on your girlfriend instead of the color of their skin or their religion. People do it all the time, I deal with it on a nightly basis and I get paid to be in the middle of it.
>inb4 that's starting Shit
Maybe to you, but that's just what some places are like. There are parts of the states where spouting your mouth off is your first amendment right but holding a constitution to your face won't block the hit. Go find a dive bar in the south, southeast, midwest or southwest and you'll see what I mean. Not every place is a pacifist tampon receptacle and occasionally, people want to fight.
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>>28450217
You sound upset.

I can tell you're definitely a young suburbanite.
Ruralfag. Never lived in a city.

>You know us white people can fight too? I know it's hard to believe but if you lay down your political correctness and sensitivity and just get pissed over something old fashioned, you can participate in non-hate crime violence! Something like spilling alcohol on you or hitting

>assault charges
>worth it
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>>28450217
>You know us white people can fight too
If you don't know how to use weapons, you're not fighting, you're engaging in sport or social posturing. Those thousands of clowns on youtube squaring off aren't defending themselves, they are jockeying for position in the neighborhood pecking order.
You look at footage of riots or lynch mobs, where people are really trying to hurt each other, they always go to weapons. Always.
The idea that, in a street fight, if you refrain from weapon use the other guy(s) will too, is idiotic.
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>>28450217
>There are parts of the states where spouting your mouth off is your first amendment right...people want to fight.
LOL, America must be like one big MMA gym. In my country, you would get stabbed for that behavior.
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>>28449775
>>28449785
No, it's a raid. Triumphalist liberals only come here to gloat when more strictures are announced.
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>>28447949
Spoons take too long to murder efficiently.
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>>28451275
Tell that to the genosaji.
>>
libs and lefties are proud subjects
kek
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>>28450442
Pulling this out of my ass, but I think it's got something to do with the history of boxing as a gentleman's sport in Britain. The idea of honorable unarmed combat (even by way of informal dispute resolution) was a huge deal in Britain, and was correspondingly exported to the colonies, but a good deal less so everywhere else. See, for example, that scene with Bismarck and Jack Gully in Royal Flash (yeah, yeah, it's fiction, I know.).
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>>28450076
>>>/hm/
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>>28449729
They are listed in the law, by name. The story OP linked to is shit. Read the opinions.
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>>28449716
>not blasting smal pieces of your steak off

You know it's 2016 now, right?
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>>28448088
It's not illegal to be drunk in public in bongistan
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>>28449824
>>28449390
Bush was not a conservative in any sense at all
He was a neo-con
Aka a trotskyite commie
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>>28458283
Google "no true scotsman fallacy" or just enroll in your local community college
Thread replies: 97
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