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All memes aside the Katana is probably the...
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

Thread replies: 130
Thread images: 41
All memes aside the Katana is probably the great sword ever constructed

>steel folded 1000 times
>solid weight
>can cut through other swords

why have you rednecks not picked one up yet?
>>
>>28437512
first! also sage
>>
>memes aside
>lists memes

0/10
>>
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>>28437512
so, how exactly does it differ from the techniques europeans used to make knifes over 1000 years before Japanese made katana?
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>>28437512
>cut through other swords
Ha no not without compromising its own strength
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>>28437512
Because I have this
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>>28437512
It was folded 1000 times because japanese iron was shit (called pig iron) and needed to be folded to prevent it from breaking on a few swings.
Even with this, it was fairly common for swords to break in combat, why samurai would carry multiple or a shorter variant.
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>>28437816
>implying 3" is magnum
get on my 3 1/2" level bro
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>>28437512
>>
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>>28437905
Not to mention "folded 1000 times" is false too. Folding more than 20 times yields nearly completely homogeneous steel, making further folds useless and irrelevant. Katana were usually folded ~8-16 times to get 1000 or so LAYERS.

But of course this is a bait thread so whatever
>>
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Pic related. This is only about a million times more useful then a meme katana.but if you were not still in middle school and knew anything about sword fighting you would agree.
Ironicly. If they were so great,how come other places use other blades? Why wouldn't they just use errrmugud katana.
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You could've just asked for the gifs directly, OP
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>>28438253
Source for both is an episode of a German Mythbusters-like series, "Welt der Wunder"
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>>28437794
well, for one the japanese had shittier iron deposits so the steel was worse.
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>>28437905
>>28438337
Nice memes.
>>
>>28437512
>steel folded 1000 times
>not realizing this is because of how shit Japanese steel was
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>>28437512
>Implying Katana is actually good.
>Implying people still make 1000 times folded Katanas.
>Implying 1000 times fold don't cost 1000 times as much.
>Implying a Flamberg wouldn't shatter it in a single strike against shitty Katana steel.
>Implying serrated Flamberg is not the single greatest creation in melee history.
>Implying you are not a faggot who lives in his great grandmothers' basement.
>Implying.
>>
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excuse me grosse messer coming through
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>>28437512
>t. somebody who doesn't know shit about swords

You get F. Best I can do.
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>>28438490
>serrated
>>
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>>28437512
>>
>>28441197
my sides have left orbit
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>>28437512

pour on some jet fuel
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>>28437512
Because you're a tard if you buy anything other than legitimate antique katanas which cost a good chunk of money
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>>28437512
I have, though. I really want something made from Damascus steel.
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>>28440177
I Want to see a grosse messer with an eastern-style hilt.

Perhaps carried by a Gothic Samurai, with a matched katzbalger as the wakazashi.

Does that make me a bad person?
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Ladies please.
Ulfberht.
>>
>>28437512
Because Grenade Flail is superior
>1000 times casted
>adjustable chain length
>muh fragmentation
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>>28437512
Sadly you're just a trilby wearing faggot
>>
>>28438147
I wanna get that fuckin small kneif from that company.
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>>28441772
>sword on battlebelt
Are melee weapons acceptable substitutes for pistols in loadouts in countries that aren't handgun friendly?
>>
Real katana cost as much as a car. Can't really get a hold of it unless you get to Japan or something.
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>>28437512
its the greatest for cutting up to 3 unarmed, unarmored peasants in half
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You guys have probably heard the buggy whip example for outdated technology. As the car replaced the horse for transportation, the buggy whip industry shrank until you were left with one company "and I'll bet they made the best damn buggy whip you ever saw."

Well, if we're talking about swords...
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>>28442668
not really the best
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>>28440177
couldnt you have at least posted a picture of a DECENT messer, not a piece of Cold Steel shit?
>>
For god's sake /k/. Someone needs to look up "I am shad katana" on youtube without quotes, watch his series, and sumarize the important points into a postable image.
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>Traditional katana
Fixed that for you.
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>>28440177
>Does that make me a bird person?
That all depends on what you mean by "Gothic Samurai".

Other than that, I agree. I want to see this because if they fixed the aesthetics as well, we could finally find a worthy successor to the katana and burn all reliable documents and evidence it ever existed from history such that the most logical conclusion would be that the samurai never used it. This way, we could finally get some bad-ass swords in films etc. that actually deserve to have stories told about them instead of this flawed curve shit.
>>
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Swordfags please...
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>>28441702
I like you...
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>>28446575
get on my level
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>>28440177
Grosse messer more like gross mess lel.
>>
>>28440177
wtf why is it grosse? Should be "großes messer" i.e. grosses messer, or großmesser
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>>28446813
American keyboards typically don't have nazi letters.
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>>28442683
>>
>>28446813
That letter does not exist in the English alphabet.
>>
>katana folded a thousand times
VS
>plutonium enriched a thousand times

WHO WINS
>>
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>>28446813
oer oo ay eye eee ahh oh

umad deutsch-bag?
>>
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What sword is this?
>>
ANYONE in this thread that talks about the katana and its steel being inferior to European swords did not study European history of weapons alongside Japanese weapon history.

The "1000" folding of the Japanese sword was merely done to create steel that was equal and sometimes superior to European swords in terms of strength. But this is highly varied and as always, the best swords belong to the best swordsmiths.

The Europeans had an easier time of making quality steel, but steel did not improve to the same quality that we have in modern times. They basically ended up with the same shit the Japanese had, but it was less laborious.

If, and I really mean IF, you read European books about historical swordsmanship, you would literally know how easy it was to break European swords in combat. Protip: It was very common.
>>
>>28446678
What sword is this?
>>
>>28447014

And even IF the steel they got was better than European steel, it was a VERY precious commodity.

It was so precious that the only parts of a genuine katana that are steel are the cutting edge and tip. The rest of the katana was IRON.

Let me rephrase that- the majority of the metal on a true katana is IRON.

Whereas even low end European blades were at least entirely steel.

European blades are superior by this fact alone. That doesn't mean katanas were bad. In fact, the average untrained user can probably defend himself with a katana easier than with an arming sword.

And today it's possible for Japanese smiths to make a katana completely from steel.
>>
>>28446813

because the rest of the world didn't ruin the letters SS so hard they have to make up a brand new letter to take their place.
>>
>>28447061
>rest of the katana was iron
The entire blade of a katana are steel. The back edge of the katana was softer steel because of the heat treatment they used in the smithing process, but it's full steel. Maybe the tang, but (read below)
>Whereas even low end European blades were at least entirely steel.
That's actually false. Only full-tang swords were historically full steel in Europe. Meaning things like the Grosse Messer and other knives, due to European regulations on who could carry swords.

European swords that did not employ a full tang did not have completely steel swords. A lot of European swords did have iron tangs that were stuck to steel blades.

The average katana user can likely slash easier with a katana than an arming sword, but the use of the katana, from a historical perspective as recorded by Koreans and Chinese who fought them, required a lot of fast, jumping movement that covered a lot of ground in seconds. I believe that because the scientific use of European swords require less movement than the katana historically, it would be easier to train a massive army with European arming swords than katanas. You would need tremendously strong legs to keep doing historical Japanese swordfighting.

It's technically the same way Indian swordsmanship works as well. People from the European persuasion seems to have more economics of movement while as you move eastwards toward Japan, swordsmanship tends to become a far more physical feat.
>>
>>28447142
>Indian swordsmanship
A lot of Indian swordsmanship was designed to fight multiple opponents, which is anathema to European swordsmanship manuals that survive today, most of which deal only with one-on-one situations.
>>
Someone please remind me the name of the Indian king who had his troops attach firecrackers to swords as a last resort to the british invasions
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3ZP632g5sY
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>>28437512
the reason why it is "superior" is because they seperated the high carbon and low carbon bits of the steel before forge-welding/folding. to make an ultra hard/sharp edge and soft/tough spine.


Hephaestus Rising OC they were all for sale on etsy
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>>28447406
also, similar properties can be achieved in fully homogeneous steel by differentially quenching just the edge. [just like the middle camp knife with a black Hamon(hardness line)]
>>
Their steel was so shit they had to fold it a 1000 times, while European steel was good right away
>>
>>28441463
Yes, because the Tsuba is complete garbage as a guard.
Crossguard masterrace; Nagel best addition
>>
As someone who knows jack shit about swords; memes aside, if you were to use high quality steel all from the same source, would different styles of sword be better than the next?

This is a legit question because I have never even held a sword let alone used one.
>>
>>28437512
I have a good katana.

after incidentally striking a soft iron nail, the edge rolled and it has an irreparable flaw.

katanas are shit.
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>>28447593
The tsuba is useful in the way it is shaped if you practice Japanese kenjutsu and iaijutsu. These things were not designed willy-nilly.
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>>28447609
>after incidentally striking a soft iron nail,
Small stones can damage European swords through incidental contact, so I still have no idea where these fucktards shitting on either the katana or European swords come from.
>>
>>28447598
Its like knife blades doofus, different shaped blades are better for different tasks
>>
>>28447598
It will all depend on usage dictated by the design. Some are better cutters, some are better thrusters, some are much better on horseback, some on foot, some used for multiple opponents, some strictly for dueling. The people you have to worry about are those who talk about "this sword feels better in the hand" people. You also have to worry about people who keep talking about "ultimate" or "the best" sword.
More often than not, these people are uneducated about historical swordsmanship and materials used in them. And both European and Asian fanatics are guilty of this somewhat nationalistic fervor of their ancient cultures' weaponry.
>>
>>28447593
Japanese soldiers from the Sengoku era onwards to the Bakumatsu no Douran tended to use armguards to chainmail to protect their hands along with the Japanese sword guard even in civilian attire.
>>
>>28438490
shan-yu is that you?
>>
>>28447694
>Bakumatsu
I've heard accounts that American soldiers carried two revolvers on them to deal with unruly Japanese with swords. Know the books about where these accounts are from?
>>
>>28447598
Like the others said, different swords for different tasks.
>>
>>28447609
>Expecting blades to work well on metal
Blunt force weapons were a thing.
>>
>>28447598
You wouldn't use a meat cleaver for fine work.
>>
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>>28437512

Ahem.
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>>28447095
rekkkt
>>
>>28441422
>>28442618
>>28442668
>>28437905
>>28438096
>>28437512 (OP)
>>28438461
/k/ pls

*The metal is no worse than European sword was at the time
*The result of the forging was simply a different style.
*Katana exchanges long use on the field for a harder edge and usually being more repairable (usually bends rather than breaks).
*The curve is a slight fault in the design of the katana, probably made that way for aesthetic reasons. That being said, this sword >>28445568 looks pretty damn good too me, so I don't know about that shit. For a useful blade, it should've been either straight, or much, much more curved.
*Pig iron discussion is misleading
*Kriegmesser is superior, but ugly as shit from what I've seen so far when compared to Eastern stylistics
*The tsuba is a garbage guard.
>>
>>28447787
>Macuahuitl
I don't even understand why it counts as a sword.
>>
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>sword cucks


Billhook mustard race
>>
>>28437905
And in any case, back when samurai were still soldiers and not just nobles with a title, the bow was their primary weapon, not the sword. They pretty much only carried them out of necessity.

I read somewhere that to be more skilled with the sword than the bow was a source of shame for a samurai.
>>
>>28441702
>posts a fake +ULFBERH+T

are you even trying?
>>
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>>28441772
This is pretty dank actually. Where'd you get the sword?
>>
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Romans swerve
>>
>>28448696
>Polearms
My nigga. Anyone who would take a sword over a halberd in a fight is a dumbass faggot.
>>
>>28448253

Well it has an edge.
>>
>>28437512
Katana was shit, but the methods that went into it were good.
>>
>>28451640
where is this painting from? And any idea how old it is, is this from some codex perhaps?
>>
>>28451799

According to wikipedia, it's from a codex called Ixtlilzochitl in the 1600's.
>>
>>28437512
stabby > slashy
>>
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>>28437512
>All memes aside

Japanese steel is shit so they have to fold it more to compensate
>>
>>28447679
That makes a lot of sense actually. Thanks anon.
>>
>>28446678
That's a big sword
>>
>>28452687
Katanas are still good stabbing weapons, just not as good as they could be.
>>
>>28449791
Waking up in the morning was a source of shame for the samurai.
>>
I'm not sure where people get the idea that Japanese Steel is/was impure. The iron sands that they produced their steel from were impure, but not after how long they refined it for. Can't remember the documentary but it covered the entire process of smelting tamahagane and it was a 3 day process.
>>
>>28454432
It wasn't about it being impure, it was about it being hard to come by.
>>
>>28437512

I'd rather take a Filipino machete
>>
>>28437512

>implying the model 1897 is not a sword
>>
>>28441772
Why do you carry a sword with you outside?

>implying I wouldn't do the same if I'd have a reason
>>
>>28454150
4U
>>
All meme aside. Swords like katanas are generaly poor at going through bone material. They have a reputation for it and don't quote me on it but the blades themself tend to bend due to how soft the steel is. Their steel use to be of poor quality due to the lack of rich minerals in Japanese soils/sand. Japan only redeeming quality is their blacksmiths who were more craftsmen than anything else. Like a modern day liberal artist. In no way am I saying European or other Asian swords were better as their is literally 100s of different types of swords to compare to the single Japanese katana.
>>
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>>28437512
Because I'm looking after a Shin Gunto.
>>
>>28449998
Valiant Armoury. It's the Prescot with some custom options

>>28454475
I mean, why not. Some guys put tomahawks on the rigs
>>
>>28447852
You seem really educated. I'd like to ask a question, how were swords made before forging?
>>
>>28454571
Casting.

Then first metal blades were cast from copper, later bronze.
>>
>>28454562
I'm this guy >>28454475

Where do you go with it? do you make excursions or something like that?
>>
>>28441408
I heard it melts steel.
>>
>>28454571
not him, but the macuahuitl is a likely choice. basic refining of metal and forging has been around literally forever
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>>28454596
When did forging come into history?
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>>28454597
To be honest with you not really anywhere. I've always wanted one and so I got it. Test cutting and groping while watching Kingdom of Heaven is about it so far.

I may take it somewhere one day, but really I got it just because I could
>>
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>Best sword
>Not a Lee-Einfield bayonet
>>
>>28441772
>anduril
>battle belt
aaaaand i just came
>>
>>28451640
so does /b/
>>
>>28447852
>The metal is no worse than European sword was at the time
STOP
>>
>>28447852
The Katana is curved because that's part of the fighting style of using one. Quick release and slice is how they are used, the curve allows that fast unsheathing.

They can't do shit against heavy metal armor like in Europe because the blades are not made for that. They are light and meant to be cutting through bamboo, cloth, and flesh. Not Steel and bone.
>>
>>28454780
he's right though.

japanese steel is functionally identical to most european medieval steel. The only significant difference in the production process is that europe tended to make 8-10 small tuyere bloomeries. that produced maybe 20-50kg each of steel after fining, while the japanese would use a tatara bloomery that made half a tonne in one go, but was a bit tougher to operate.

both contain very little phosphorus, and were entirely suited to blade use. the entire "shit japanese steel" is utterly ignorant. The ORE was shit (iron sands), which is why they developed a smelting process that used a far bigger burning process, to compensate for the crappy ore.

the actual metal there's no differences.
>>
The steel needed to be folded due to the relative impurity of the iron sands available at the time. It might have been superior at one time but is nothing compared to the mono steel created today. We create steel in controlled environments with superior properties the nips could never have dreamed of. Sorry science ruined your anime dreams.
>>
>>28456958
>but is nothing compared to the mono steel created today.
European steel during the medieval and renaissance eras were also nothing compared to the quality of steel we have today.
>>
>>28455432
>. They are light and meant to be cutting through bamboo, cloth, and flesh. Not Steel and bone.
Katana are very top-heavy, heavier than European longswords of the same size. They are designed to cut through flesh, bone, bamboo, and cloth.

There are NO swords in both Europe and Asia designed to cut through steel. None.
>>
>>28452687
>stabby > slashy
Stabbing weapons = good for dueling one person
Slashing weapons = good for multiple opponents
>>
>>28454562
Was it removed from the site? I went looking and didn't find it.
>>
>>28446995
iron scimitar?
Kind of shitty. Only costs 1500 GP or something.
>>
>>28441702
Frankly, anything made of that kind of steel would be awesome.
>>
>>28446995
It looks like a horse cock.
>>
>>28446995
Trust this man >>28458273
He is an expert on horse cock.
>>
>>28447095
#rekt
>>
>>28437905

Japanese swords are made from Steel.
Pig Iron is simply Iron Ore that has been smelted into ingots, which are then smelted again to make other alloys.
Pig Iron is used to make into Steel, so yes technically Pig Iron was used to make swords, but it's so far removed from the original iron, you just sound like an idiot.
>>
>>28447142
then why are japs so bitchmade physically, seriously those guys are weak as fuck.
>>
>>28437512
>Why haven't you picked one up yet?
Because it isn't superior European design
>>
>>28457124
Should be back on there soon, I think Sonny is waiting on some blades. You can always email him, he's very good about replying
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