TOW appreciation thread? TOW appreciation thread. https://w

They whiffed a perfectly good shot in this :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m1GYFL17o4

Self bump cuz im a little bitch

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>>28433273
bump

always wondered how much training TOW operators get

I wonder if it's similar to javelin operators, who fire their weapons once in a tour if at all

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>>28433608
Hey! I took that picture!
Heres day view for ya!

Tow-1 proved insufficient to penetrate t-72m from frontal aspects in iraq iran war, which impressed me

infact the t-72 was surprisingly successful in lots of ways in that conflict.

>>28433346
why didnt this go of?

>>28435459
About a month of JAV and TOW in conjuction with armour ID as the basic MOS package.

Then you use it throughout a deployment workup and fire it a few times on ranges, if you are actually good they have you use it during the final combined arms battalion exercise before you deploy.

Getting cleared to fire it with current ROEs is about on the same probability level as finding a unicorn in your closet though.

They will just have snipers handle it, and they will miss. Funny thing about snipers, no matter how much they fuck up command never loses thier hard on for them, and seems to believe the guy who has missed the last 6 shots hes been cleared for is still the end all be all asset to deal with the next scenario that pops up.

>>28435526
Because its just an old analog TOW2A which doesnt have the fly over shoot down package.

You need the TOW2B AERO to do that, which we arent handing out to people.

Also keep in mind the iranians back-engineered the TOW and are handing them out to militias n such across the middle east. Its possible its not even a real TOW.

>>28435538
why so little use innasandbox?
are other munitions preferred instead, or does jamal simply not posses the kind of armor that would justify their use?

In case anyone is wondering about the TOW's in Syria and how they got there
https://hasanmustafas.wordpress.com/2015/05/08/the-moderate-rebels-a-complete-and-growing-list-of-vetted-groups-fielding-tow-missiles/
Good to see they're still working at least.

>>28435555
so just a shitty operator who missed then?
btw, anyone know if the Iranian TOW-copy is any good? Like, comparable range, top-attack mode, pen and so on?

>>28435607
No theres plenty of times we could have used it to waste some fuckers behind a wall or something, especially since we have a bunker buster round for it now, but if you cannot 100% double pinky swear garuntee that theres not a civvie behind the wall too you cant fire, and you need permission from your commander to use anything more explosive than 40mm so you have a gaggle fuck of shit heads about a click out and not be allowed to fire.

Especially once they enacted the 100 meter rule (cant engage targets within 100m of any civilian structure) which the hajis figured out and started using houses full of women and children as a home free zone.

Basically our ROEs turned our engagements into a lethalized version of 6th grade tag "haha cant tag me, im home free!"

I did get to use one to breach a gate during an assault on a known enemy compound that drones had confirmed contained no civvies though.

That was cool. Turns out a guy had been standing guard right behind it too.

>>28435634
Gonna use a trip cuz this is actually my job and you guys are asking good questions.

Iranian TOWs were more or less direct copies of 1980's analog systems.

About 3,750 meters max range
No idea what they use for explosive filler, but it is probably a bit less penetration than ours.

VS our modern saber system (TOW just means tube launched optically tracked, wire guided) our digital system fires TOW missiles but the launcher is upgraded and called the saber now.

Max range 4,500 meters
We have fly over shoot down (shaped charge is mounted aiming downwards, it detects when its over a target and fires, and has 2 of them timed to detonate just far enough apart that each plasma jet hits the same spot, so its kinda like two hits in one missile)

The bunker buster variant that penetrates walls then detonates

And it can fire any of the older missile variants as well.

As for armour penetration, the stats seem to change every time we get a new manual, but I have put a hole clean through the thickest part of the glacius of an m60 and a t-72 on ranges so i know that for certain it can pop these haji tanks like tincans.

The TOW missile actually cheats, if you actually built a missile powerful enough to utterly destroy a tank youd need a trailer to haul it. The TOW just punches a tiny hole through the armour and the external explosion vents inside increasing the pressure rapidly and making the interior flash heat to about 1,500 degrees for a brief moment, which detonates the ammo and fuel, or atleast cremates the crew.

So when you see a tiny missile utterly fuck a tank, thats why, its using the tanks own ammo to destroy it.

(Especially T series, since they often store ammo in shitty unprotected racks in side the turret)

Another fun fact: most foreign tanks of russian or western design are "export models", with thinner lower quality armour, uncompartmentalized interiors, unprotected ammo racks, stuff like that.

>>28435721
The tidbit about increasing pressure was neat thanks

>>28435656
When was this ROE implemented? I remember watching those British docs on Helmand and how they used Javelins like they were LAW's, lobbing them all over the place. Same goes with a lot of the USMC-clips on youtube, but i have no idea on the dates for those.
When i was in RC-North we just a singe-shot land-version of the Hellfire. Really fucks up a mud-hut, i tell you that.

>>28435818
*used

>>28435818
The obama administration decreed to the military that for ground forces there would be 0 civ cas zero collateral sometime in 2013, essentially ROEs were forced to fit the timeline that he had set for troop withdrawal.
You literally needed a LTs permission to throw a grenade or use 40mm, and a captains permission to use anything bigger.

You needed a LTcol's permission for hellfire strikes.

None of these could be given if a civilian structure or property were within 100 meters.
In other words, it let his PR team (ie most news media) to point at statistics and go "SEE! THE WAR IS OVER! WE CAN PULL OUR GUYS OUT NOW"

All of those news reports during 2014 going "local security forces taking over in afghanistan" and "local ANA win major engagement against taliban in helmand!"

Was basically my battalion, and like, 10 ANA guys. Well, not even our battalion. We had 2 companies as literally the last ground assault force in the province to commit spoiling and disruption raids against taliban to buy the POGs time to pack up camp.

We couldnt get permission for operations unless we took ANA with us, so we'd bring a few along and our clearing operation of a village or region or a sucessful raid on a stronghold would be reported as "ANA with US Marine handlers accomplished this mission" when it was really 120 marines and 15 ANA tag alongs.

Basically everything from ROEs to reporting was being forced to fit the official line that the war was over and that we didnt need to reportin when in reality we were all that was holding things together.

That recent shit about the taliban taking sangin? Like it just happened? Started last year, taliban have actually taken, lost, and retaken the city since we left. So this is actually the 3rd time ANA have lost the city. And every time the ANA have retaken it was only because we diverted every single air asset in the country to bomb it for them.

Gotta go stand post. Hope the thread is still up when I get back.

>>28435924

Bumping

How do you feel about the Syrian rebels' use of TOWs? Do you think they use good tactics?

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>>28433273
can tow missiles be fired from behind cover ?
seems a little conspicuous the way most atgm are set up

>>28436202
I'm interested in this as well
How does the rebel tactics reflect what you yourself have been trained to? Seeing as how fighting an actual competent army would require different tactics than popping T-something used by people with zero competence.

>>28435895
I mentored in Afghan in 2011. This was always going to happen.

Fuck.

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>>28436202
>>28436407

I dont actually know what syrian tactics are aside from the fact that they seem to prefer firing from ambush, which both fits with traditional middle eastern combat styles, and seems to be effective.

We typivally use broader unit tactics, machineguns suppress infantry support and light vehicles, sabers or javs, or both prep from behind cover, move to a firing position, engage heavy armour, everyone moves back to cover.

But I doubt either side in syria is operating on a level of that complexity and coordination.

>>28436329
They can be fired from cover, but you need to take 2 things into account

1: clearance for fins to open, ideally about 20 inches
2: wire sag. As the missile gets farther out the wires are going to sag a bit, about 1 foot of sag for every 1000 meters of range. So if you are engaging at max range you might need as much as 4 feet of clearance.

Which is why firing from hilltops, buildings, or vehicles is advisable.

>>28436858
Yeah, pretty much every dumb thing that e-3's and e-4's were predicting for years happened and all the big-wigs made this face and pretended it was unforseeable.

>>28436202
>>28436407

I dont actually know what syrian tactics are aside from the fact that they seem to prefer firing from ambush, which both fits with traditional middle eastern combat styles, and seems to be effective.

We typivally use broader unit tactics, machineguns suppress infantry support and light vehicles, sabers or javs, or both prep from behind cover, move to a firing position, engage heavy armour, everyone moves back to cover.

But I doubt either side in syria is operating on a level of that complexity and coordination.

>>28436329
They can be fired from cover, but you need to take 2 things into account

1: clearance for fins to open, ideally about 20 inches
2: wire sag. As the missile gets farther out the wires are going to sag a bit, about 1 foot of sag for every 1000 meters of range. So if you are engaging at max range you might need as much as 4 feet of clearance.

Which is why firing from hilltops, buildings, or vehicles is advisable.

>>28436858
Yeah, pretty much every dumb thing that e-3's and e-4's were predicting for years happened and all the big-wigs practiced furrowing thier brows in concern and pretended it was unforseeable.

>>28436858
>>28435895
ANA isn't interested in fighting for areas where Taliban-loving tribes and families live. They fight better for turf that belongs to the ethnic groups/tribes that actually join the ANA

And yeah, its fucking afghanistan so they're retards, they're not gonna fight and win wars like westerners do any time this millenium but the ANA has improved over recent years. They managed to retake Kunduz, for instance, with US air support, and they have done a good job of keeping Taliban out of the Herat region.

Basically Afghanistan is going to go back to being a fractured, feudal anarchy, where the Kabul government will be a major player so long as we give them money to pay soldiers. Plenty of Afghans are happy to draw an ANA salary and defend their local area from the Taliban

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>>28435895
>If we apply enough force we will win
It seems like you learned nothing from Vietnam. Well, at least yo are not in charge.

>>28438608
At what time did I suggest that was the route to take?

What I said is what happened. We withdrew before the job was done based on a withdrawal date that utterly ignored mission accomplishment, or the security situation on the ground. We left based on an arbitrary date that was pureley set to meet political promises and had no connection to if the war was over or if the ANA were actually ready to take over
(In 2014 our unit was in 27 armed engagements in a 6 month period, the ANA were taking 60 and 75 percent casualties when we were not present, the withdrawal date had nothing to do with if the campaigns goals had been met, and a false sense of resolution was fabricated by biased media reporting that both spun events to fit a political narrative, ignored events that couldnt fit, and cherry picked stories that did)

Not saying I have the solutions, just that i saw what was done wrong.

>>28438599
Well the only real difference between taliban and the northern alliance was that osma bin laden wasnt with the northern alliance.

We set up virtually every organization there based on whoever said they were anti taliban. Meaning we handed gins, uniforms, and money out to anyone ranging from legitimate groups, to drug lords and random local strong men who just said what they needed to say to get guns and cash.

But yeah, you are right. Afghan isnt a nation so much as a border drawn around a collection of tribes, and nobody there has any interest fighting for anything except thier own tribe or clan's land, and are so illiterate and backwards that they really cant concieve of a political structure much larger than "hes older than us and has more wives and goats, so we do what he says."

Seriously we tried to train an ANA company. Half spoke pashtun, half spoke dari, and 5 guys spoke some random mountain people gobbledygook that even the other afghans couldnt understand.

Seriously, the unit had 3 languages and literally any task that needed to occur required 4 hours of shouting, weapons brandishing, and hand gestures between everyone.

The afghan commandos were okay, i would put them on par with national guard when properly supervised.

The majority of regular afghan's also truly give zero fucks about anything besides immediate physical needs. The concept that we can just logically explain something and why this series of events and developments will matter a few months, years, or decades from now carries zero weight to your local villager whose chief concern is where his family's next meal is coming from.