Let's have a thread about the first Gulf War, a war not nearly talked enough about on /k/.
>The Highway to Hell
>Fratracide & British asspain
>The complete and total face fucking of the 4th largest, battle hardened, trained, and best equipped military on Earth in a matter of days by the Coalition
>The unimaginable power of a US armored/mechanized battalion with good logistics and air support
>Tactics weapons and equipment
The Air Force basically sodomized the entire Iraqi commqnd and control system, logistics, anti air defenses, and most of their air power (all of which were quite advanced) in the opening hours of the war. The Air Force expected up to half of the aircraft deployed to be shot down in the first night, and up to 2/3rds of the ground forces to be casualties.
Turns out AWACS and smart bombs were WAAAAAAAAAYYYY more of a game changer than originally thought.
The initial offensive was so successful infact that Norman halted all offensive operations for nearly 3 days because he was convinced the Iraqis were baiting them into a hidden nuclear and/or chemical attack in the desert.
Every so often you get one of those golden moments.
the first Gulf War is why we have the PLA of today. The Chinese generals watched the war live on tv with the rest of the world, and you know what they saw? A Army with newer equipment than them get slaughtered. Late 80's, early 90s, the PLA was still basically the same Army they had in the 1950s. We woke the Sleeping Dragon with our victory.
>Iraqi Republican guard units were used to mass formations and human wave attacks
>They were stupid enough to assemble massive units of men and vehicles in the open desert with no air defenses
>their face when CBU87 cluster munitions
I believe there were still M60s in the inventory at the time but I don't know if any actually saw combat. As >>28418573 points out, they weren't expecting the war to be so one sided. It wouldn't surprise me if they started shipping some M60s in that directions to replace losses that never happened.
The Muhreens had M60 tanks with reactive armor that I think we bought off the self from the IDF, in some units, and M1s in others. Not sure about the Army, I also don't know if any of the Reserve or Guard units had M60 tanks. I was 17 when the the invasion happened. Then everything was over before the end of my senior year and I had to wait until 2003 to finally go to war myself.
Not much to discuss. The war, you see, is when the TWO modern armies are fighting. Desert Storm was conducted mostly by air force in plain desert, againt severely outnumbered opponent with no contemporary AA. Bear in mind how much of their imported armor predated american two decades and you have classic example of conventional overkill, that nevertheless demonstrated how the US were capable at taking down defenseless 3rd world governments.
Well then either you were watching the most pro America propaganda ever or you remember wrong.
We did extremely well due to a combination of luck, good planning, and muslim incompetence.
The Iraqi military was very modern, very large, and very well equipped. They were also very well experienced and trained by muzzie standards. Gear wise, they had both more and better gear than both Germany and France and were a regional superpower.
It's fashionable to hate this movie on /k/ since it depicted the corps for what it really is. Bunch of pathological sociopaths with an itching death wish and no hope adapting to human life.
This, and my father was part of it. I remember when I was young, and it was career day at school, my father would come in for the air force and show videos of planes wrecking shit. A lot of it was tanks, bridges, buildings, technicals, and people, getting blasted to hell. I'm not sure if they were videos of him doing all that, never asked, but I've seen a ton of the on board video of shit blowing up.
Oh, and he flew an A10. Shit was cash to look inside of and to be around.
>The Iraqi military was very modern, very large, and very well equipped.
Are you fucking shitting me? The Iraqi military was total shit. It was large, that's all. They got beaten by Iran some years before. Iran, the country that used to send waves of fanatics to clear minefields, running. At the time of the war the Iraqi equipment consisted of outdated or monkey model Soviet (T-55, Scud, monkey T-72 and MiG's) and Western stuff (monkey Mirage F-1...) all of which hadn't received much maintenance (Iraq broke, Russia in economic collapse). Couple this with the legendary corruption and inefficiency of Arab armies, and you'll quickly see that Iraq never stood a chance against western armies featuring cutting edge technology (stealth bombers, electronic warfare, modern tanks, AWACS, laser-guided bombs, A-10...) and better strategy.
They lost the war against Iran. Iran had purged its military and Air Force, was under sanctions by almost all countries and still managed to beat "modern" Iraq.
Fraid not. The Soviets wouldn't have huddled there and let us bomb the living fuck out of them for weeks on end. They would have been coming straight at us, and bringing their own air with them.
I read Schwarzkopf autobiography. Sounded like a bit of an asshole but he knew what he was doing.
Could tell even through text he felt really bad about the Vietnam situation. Had made friends with Southern officers and never found out what happened to all of them after the war.
Other fun tidbit: my uncle got to tag some of those Highway of Hell bodies from what I've heard, but he never talks about it himself.
Remember how iraq used to be a pretty sweet country that hated the US but never bothered us? They had a decent standard of living. Sure sadam was an ass but he kept the peace. Man, We fucked that place to hell and back. It's a chaotic shithole now.
I'm kinda proud of what we did.
it probably did a good job at showing how the war was really like from a soldiers perspective. lots of sit and wait, war over instantly, nobody gets what they wanted, home life is fucked for all.
unfortunately it was boring as fuck and completely bland from start to end.
I think that was mostly the point, but shit, i'm watching a movie because i'm already bored, dont punish the viewer for giving the film a chance, completely fucked up my sympathy for the overall message.
Somehow I had this one in grade school. Couldn't tell you how I got it.
desert storm was awful, i was 2 months old and our building had no water or power due to strategic bombing in Baghdad
it ruined my family financially for decades to come
me and my single mother live in canada now trying to get our lives together, my grandfather was an iraqi scientist and up until my birth they all lived an upper-class lifestyle
Im in college now so i cant complain, but its definitely up to me to help my family financially once i graduate
>The war, you see, is when the TWO modern armies are fighting.
Iraqi equipment on the ground was comparable in performance to the bulk of slavshit used in the homeland.
>Desert Storm was conducted mostly by air force in plain desert
Look up General Fred Franks.
>againt severely outnumbered opponent with no contemporary AA
Look up the Package Q strike.
>Bear in mind how much of their imported armor predated american two decades
your face when RGFC T-72A1s got slapped just the same as the T-72M1s.
Hindsight is always 20/20. They were impressive on paper, and the us hadn't been involved in anything major since Vietnam. (Granada and Panama were small potatoes). At the time, there was a major concern over possible losses, particularly with the aftertaste of Vietnam still somewhat fresh. Meanwhile, the Iraqis were veterans of a recent major war and were more experienced (non-conscript units). Plus, much of the new tech was also untested. Not to mention the fear that Saddam would gas the troops, as he had used it before.
So, good planning and luck did play a significant role. If the Hail Mary failed, the war could have lasted much longer and caused significant US casualties. There was a large anti sentiment, and they'd make plenty of noise if that occurred.
And my favorite Gulf War card was the military alphabet one.
A couple of reasons led to coalition victory.
1- the Iraqis basically sat there in exposed positions, positions the Americans could see with superior optics.
2- the Iraqis had no forward "warning" elements. This is a poorly considered but vital element in any defensive, since reserves in depth are vital.
3- the Iraqis, having been unceasingly obliterated under coalition air strikes, operated in skeleton crews due to fear of death by sudden explosion. When the Americans started engaging, the Iraqis apparently thought they were air strikes and some fled from their tanks.
The Iraqis were then overrun and routed.
Sauce: military power: explaining victory and defeat in modern battle. Biddle, Stephen 2004. Pg. 132-150
Thats what you get for fucking with america bitch
So basically Iraq and Kuwait are part of OPEC, a cabal of oil exporting nations (iraq, saudis, venezuela, etc.). Now a fun economic fact, everyone has motivation to cheat in a cartel, cuz if prices are fixed it benefits the cheater to produce just a little bit more (if oil is selling at a fixed $30 a barrel and everyone "agrees" to produce X amount of barrels, you can cheat and get a little more money by producing extra). This will be important in a moment.
Now every nation is a little different economically. Iraq, bankrupting itself more or less during the Iran-Iraq war and other bugaloos found itself short on cash. Kuwait was comparatively wealthy, as were the saudis, and the slogan of the era was "drill baby drill". This meant cheap oil. This is bad for oil revenue, but great for securing market share. Kuwait also owned a bunch of Iraqi debt, but Iraq's protests of "m8 i need cash bad, cant we cut back on oil?" fell of deaf ears.
The final straw came as Saddam accused kuwait of cheating and drilling diagonally to access oil in iraq. Iraq responded by invading kuwait. This threatened OPEC's existance in some ways, as Iraq now controlled Kuwait and there were concerns over the possibility of a war with the Saudis.
Enter america and the coalition. These nations ultimately began a long air campaign followed up with a 3-day ground offensive known as "Operation Desert Storm" along with the liberation of Kuwait.
The long term effects have been interesting:
The Iraqi army was believed to be "competent". Don't laugh, the Iraqis were believed to be battle hardened, had pretty new equipment (best they could buy from the Soviet Union), and had a large army. Most 3rd world and communist nations would have LOVED to have an army like Saddam's and they got BTFO'd. Hence you have nations like North Korea making nukes or exploring other ways of war, since obviously a large army meant jack shit.
>This threatened OPEC's existance in some ways, as Iraq now controlled Kuwait and there were concerns over the possibility of a war with the Saudis.
It was more than just that. Taking Kuwait gave Iraq a huge portion of the global oil market, and nobody was comfortable letting Saddam have that much control over the global economy.
As far as their control over a significant market share, sorry I thought that was implied by my post but thanks for clearing that up for future anons.
As for diaganol drilling, yeah the Kuwaitis were, but again as another anon mentioned Iraq having a fuck-huge share of oil was just u settling to much of the 1st world.
Plus there are tons of steps that Iraq could have taken to protest the diagonal drilling short of actually invading. They pretty much handled themselves the way Japan did in WW2:
>Oh no these guys are threatening our economy
>better forgo any diplomatic means and start raping and pillaging our way across their country to "defend" ourselves
Of course there's no guarantee that international pressure will get them to stop. But by at least pretending to care about the formalities they could have put the international community on their side before ultimately invading.
Plus, the way they went about the occupation really didn't help their cause. A "justified" invasion would have involved little more than just destroying the offending oil wells imposing some punitive measures. Instead, the Iraqis showed they had every intent of occupying Kuwait indefinitely and they pillaged much of the country in the brief time they held it.
The way Saddam went about the invasion makes it seem like the cross-border drilling was nothing more than a convenient excuse for something he was already planning rather than a true "defensive" measure.
Looks like they spent the whole 80's complaining about Kuwait over drilling.
So who would they protest to?
When serbia protested about muslims murdering serbs, who listened? Did it make their invasions of kosovo legitimate? No.
My point was more that the causus belli of Kuwait drilling across the border loses a lot of its weight when Iraq proceeded to act as if they were there to stay rather than just put an end to the slant-drilling.
>4th largest, battle hardened, trained, and best equipped military on Earth
That was a bit different. Our occupations were at least nominally for nation-building (or installing a puppet government depending on how you see it), whereas Saddam looked like he had every intention of annexing.
Plus, going in under the guise of a benevolent occupier tends to go over a hell of a lot better on the world stage than whatever the fuck Saddam was doing.
I know the 5th Marine to walk into Iraq. His name I wont mention, but he was like a brother to my mom growing up untill he went crazy after he came back.
>be my friends dad
>he is always a cool person, but if you piss him off he gets almost to the point of beating you
>never does though
>keeps all of his fans on low so it doesn't make any triggering sounds
>drives a huge pickup
>his house is full of security measures
>he is always carrying a GLOCK brand glock or a 1911 on him
>if actually seen him carry both once
>at my friends house one night
>he comes out of the kitchen with a bear and in his cami's
>sits in the rocking chair and just stares
>ask if he is alright
>just stares at nothing, and then finally looks at me and asks if I want to hear a story
>my friend says he doesn't know, some of his story's are utter bullshit
>he starts by asking if i knew he was in the MC
>I say yes
The rest ill green text from his POV
>I was just 23 at the time
>I I was the MG, with the 249
>we had just gotten our orders to storm Iraq the first time, as part of OP Desert Storm
>we had joked around about Sadam up to that point, about hoe he was a little pussy and how he'd back down before we even got into country
>bit when that order came, our hearts sank into our balls
>we all called our gf's
>the older fucks called their wives and children, and our CO just sat in his office and drank. I remember that part because I went in to ask him if we were really doing this. Formally, of course
>after getting through a bullshit amount of we're going NOW's and hold orders, we finally made our way over
>it took us almost days it felt like to begin to see contact
>but she we did, it was the most horrifying experience in my life
>untill we had to clean up the bodies
>that was the worst
>seeing chard bodies laying about on glassy sand
>in blown up cars
>soldiers killed because they tried to surrender
>dead Royal guards because they had no food
They were the 4th largest, they had a lot of soldiers. This guy is pulling the best equipped, hardened, and trained shit out of his ass though.
As per usual, OP is a faggot.
Cont. From last post. Sorry guys, I'm on my phone today.
> leaning ip the body's is what's messed me up the most
>I cant even think about anyone dying without remembering trying to burn those body's
>yea, our CC made us burn the body's
>at first we started burrying them, but that took to long
>so we just burned them into ashes
>I cant get rid of that smell either
>its stuck in my nose
>but, after all of that, Operation Desert Storm was by far the most fun I had in the MC ever
>just because Marines are dumb shits when we're bored
I have another story he told me a few years later. I haven't seen them in almost 3 years, so I haven't heard anymore stories from him. But this one is pretty good, if you guys wanna hear it.
I remember some thread like this and some guy pulled out a link to some website where they had moniterd what the soviets said during the gulf war.
And keept going to say alot of things to prove his point. That they had best equipment and such and had fought a bloody war against Iran.
By burning our oil supply. That was the whole reason we went in. Because they started burning the oil fields.
The reason we went in wasn't solely based on Sadam using chemical weapons, it was because he said "FUCK YOU AMERIKA."
Everything we've done past WWII has been a political move. Granted, there were some political reasons for going to WWII, but not the biggest reason.
So yes, Sadam "fucked" with our "freedom."
I think I saved a picture on one of my devices of the first AP sabot tank shell.
The story was, it busted through whatever it's target was, the huge pile of sand and dirt behind it, and went a mile or so through a heavily forested area busting through trees. It was found like two miles away lodged in a wood electricity pole.
It was cut down and replaced and the sabot remains halfway through a foot long section of the pole in someone's house.
Just started reading the book:
Crusade: The Untold Story of the Persian Gulf War.
Amazing how quickly this has faded into obscurity in our country.
Oh, sorry m8. I'll make another ending for you.
>after explaining this whole story for me, he turns and looks at me in the eyes
>the bear is going hog wild at this point, trying to escape
>he twists its neck
>slits it's throat
>drinks all of his blood
Honestly, I would expect him to do this at some point.
Some bitch who lied about what the Iraqis were doing in Kuwait to garner support for the war. She said that the Iraqis went into a hospital and took the babies out of the incubators to kill them.
Fuck you and your bitch ass hull down position, I'm a sabot bitch
The war that misled the armed forces into thinking that they need only be concerned about applying enough force. The rest will handle itself.
Saddam considered it a victory. He stood against the strongest coalition ever fielded and stayed in power.
That was in the invasion of Iraq you pleb. Operation Iraqi freedom.
I should say the same for you. If you can't talk through something you don't like without completely bashing someone else and not adding a point to the argument, you shouldn't even be allowed to talk.
I'm engaged to an Iraqi Kurd. Her mother lived under Saddam and would later move to Turkey. She doesn't talk about it much, but she survived several chemical attacks and bombings, lost all her brothers after they had joined the Peshmerga and had to apply for refugee status once she escaped to Turkey with her daughter and son and even after all that, her husband (ex-peshmerga) left her.
As someone who has visited Iraq, particularly Kurdistan, I can say with full certainty that it is not a happy country, especially now that another conflict has emerged, but the people are incredibly resilient and welcoming. I never heard a bad thing about the USA while I was there and most taxis had American flag seat covers. The Americans had a great influence on the Kurds, yes, but a lot of the older generation, including my mother in law, say that when Saddam was in power, despite all the problems, the country was remarkably safe and a hell of a lot more stable. The Gulf War is going to resonate through the country for many years to come, unfortunately.
>It was much more stable and safe when I was getting gassed and all my brothers had to leave to fight
You know radiation is all around you, all the time?
DUs major dangers are from manufacturing it or inhaling dust from it.
One of the reasons I don't agree with DU much anymore, if shooting it salts the enemies land, it's a bad thing to do. Humans tend to need agricultural land, you know, to live.
>11/10. this poster is friendly and probably cute.
Well maybe not that part.
Yes, M60s were used to some extent.
There's a persistant rumor that a single unit of USMC M60s were used during the fight for an airport somewhere and took out several/fifty/five hundred/an entire army's worth of T-55s/T-62s/T-72s/time travelling Armatas.
The type of iraqi tank and the number differs based on who's telling the story and what time of day it is, but there's no denying that M60s were at least in theater during the war.
>The complete and total face fucking of the 4th largest, battle hardened, trained, and best equipped military on Earth
Ppl still believe this.
Those dudes just lost a war against iran. That purged most of the army command during the islamic revolution.
They lost beside beeing supported by the gulf states the russian and america.
Native Canadian here. Please leave my country, your kind is not wanted.
Seriously, how much of a winging faggot do you have to be to complain about something that happened to you when you were two months old? Do you remember being bombed? No? Oh , well then looks like it didn't personally effect you at all and now you get to go to college in a first world nation because of it.
You should be thanking America, tbqh
And as far as anyone was concerned the Americans lost in Vietnam against "poor rice farmers". And the French lost in Vietnam, Algeria, etc.
The fact of the matter is everyone was preparing for American Vietnam 2.0: desert edition.
The Americans DID think the Iraqis were going to be a tough target, as did a fuck ton of people. The US lost about 200 troops, the coalition about 1200 overall. We were expecting greater losses PER DAY, 200 troops to seize a nation is ludicrously cheap in terms of blood.
since the war showed how unexpectedly good modern US military equipment was, what were the results of this long term?
Did Arab states start to buy more US equipment rather than Slav, and did Slav states and Russia shit themselves (and re-organized their military)
Is there any examples of the Chinese as well watching what was going on in Iraq and taking action as a result
Real reason he orchestrated 9/11 and the Iraq War? He wanted a series 2 of this. Too bad everyone misunderstood when he said he wanted some "playing cards" made.
Just watched Jarhead. I'm not even a marine, but still a fucking solid 10/10 modern war movie and Swoff and his life was basically how I re-enlisted and a hefty lot of us are off to deploy overseas and now the uniform takes a whole new meaning again. If you ever served, you know what it's like. War is just not how it used to be in the fucking WW2/Vietnam flicks or CoD spinoffs.
>"What the fuck are you even doing here?"
>"Sir, I got lost on the way to college, sir."
>...but I thank Lord of every day he gives me in the Corps
>this scene is in the movie
it's a crappy movie, just shut up newfag
Basically the rest of the third world saw their hope of a north Vietnamese army style victory evaporate. As I mentioned earlier, many nations then saw the Iraqis as a competent force and would have loved to have an army like them.
North Korea noticed something very important. Having chemical weapons wasn't a gurantee of security, something stronger was needed. Hence they develop nukes, hence why Iran wants nukes, so on. Even the Chinese looked at their stuff and was like ".... FML our shit isn't any better".
It isn't just tech though, there's lots of doctrine stuff that matters, like command and control structure, and in that sense a lot HASNT changed.
Western, particularly American thought, encourages decision making at the lowest possible level and independent manouevering as necessary. In Iraq, much of it was centralized and top-down, because ambitious and intelligent officers are a threat to the status quo and regime.
The result is what we saw- in many cases the Iraqis, having lost central authority, more or less sat there. In an environment that discourages independent authority and autonomy, strategic command structure loss (Comms, dead/captured officers, Ewar) leads to paralysis, as few know what's going on or even what they should do. Not to say the West is immune to this, but western military history has plenty of officers who, with no real direction, went "eh fuck it" and made a push.
>I remember when I was young, and it was career day at school, my father would come in for the air force and show videos of planes wrecking shit. A lot of it was tanks, bridges, buildings, technicals, and people, getting blasted to hell.
I would love to see someone try to do that in a school today.
My dad gave me some cool war trophies from Desert Storm. Back then you could actually bring stuff home. I have a Republican Guard licence plate from a tank he blew up and another tank's periscope. Also have a whole box of unopened Desert Storm booster packs, never bothered to check if they're worth anything.
Look up TransAfghan pipeline to understand why we are really in Afghanistan. In '91 my golf buddy was a Navy flyer assigned to Air Force One in the Pacific. He disappeared for about six months and upon his return he claimed he'd been working non-stop taxiing Bush administration officials and cronies to DurkaDurkaStan in the Caspian Sea region and they were buying natural gas filed leases by the suitcase full.
Fast forward 8 years, Enron has bought up all the gas refinery capacity in India. Huge American military presence in Caucasus Mountains to act as a regional police force - and whoever can make the spice flow from the Black Sea to India is going to rich beyond fucking comprehension.
Follow the money.
I recall some Delta-dude...might have been Larry Vickers- tell about being helied into a spot where they were looking for a bunch of telephone poles out in the desert.
Why were they looking for telephone poles? i can only think they might have had some NBC significance.