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Delta vs Seals
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons

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Why didn't Delta get tasked out for the Osama raid? I always thought they were the best in the US military.
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The Osama raid wasn't especially challenging, from a strategic perspective.

Probably a SWAT team from Omaha could have carried it out.
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>>28415826
>counting on a SWAT team to crash two helicopters
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>>28415791

We have had this conversation before. They may have just been closer to the location of the target if they were already in Afghanistan. delta may have been offered it and turned it down as they were busy with other ops. Both delta and seals have done direct action/ hostage rescue so there isn't much difference between them in that respect. I may be wrong but south asia was more of an AO for the seals with delta being in iraq.

troll answer, government wanted to publicize it so went to the biggest attention whores.
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>>28415791
It was the Seals turn, Delta grabbed Saddam.

Who knows, they might get Bagdhabi too.
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Because the first Marine Division's regular 0311s were busy so they just let the seals do it
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>>28415905
>busy
Doing what? Trying to make puppies fly?
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>>28415791
CAG picked Heads.

It landed Tails.
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>>28415935

kek
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Because there was no raid. Bin Laden was long dead. The US showed off pics of every dead body of all the other high value targets they killed like Uday and Qusay Hussein. Why not him?
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>>28415935
NOT losing fallujah for the 17th time, or getting killed by a pog armorer with "ptsd"
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>>28415791
The Army, Navy, Air force all had propositions, the Navy had the one which was most acceptable.
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>>28415905
>Marines
>Political sensitive task
>Sensitive task
>Sensitive
>Marines
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>>28416071
Yea you're right..... we're not sensitive pussys like you limp wristed cucks
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>>28416102
You die more than everyone else, that's about all you've got going for you
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>>28416256
Shiny and Chrome nigga
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Special Activities Division > Delta
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>>28416361
They're certainly spookier.
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>>28416361

different roles and for a raid like that I imagine you would want a well oiled team that has been working together for a while. hard and a waste to put that many cia guys into a kill squad.
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>>28415874

>Delta would turn down a raid on Bin Laden

You clearly don't understand officers and how they view their careers. That just wouldn't happen.

Bin Laden was already frozen in Area 51, they thawed him out to dump overseas because that's when obongos birth certificate was under scrutiny. It was for the headlines to distract us.

WHY do you think 3 out of the 4 seal team 6 members were shot down months later.

Why was zero dark propaganda 30 released shortly after.

The government said "free koolaid", and you all can't drink enough of it.

(Yes I know I sound tinfoil, but come on people something is up with all that).
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>>28416442

yes officers want to advance their careers but numbers are limited and no amount of 'i want another star' changes that all your guys are spread between iraq and various other shit holes.
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>>28416442
>osama frozen in Area 51
>I know I sound tinfoil

Yeah, a bit.
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Because Admiral McRaven was commander of JSOC at the time and in charge of organizing the operation and he used to be a Navy SEAL. Simple as that. Can't really blame him I guess, wouldn't you go with the people you know if tasked with assigning a monumentally important mission (politically, anyways)?

Personally, I still like Delta/CAG/ACE better b/c they don't write a book and make a movie about everytime they do something but whatevs.
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>>28415874
>They may have just been closer to the location of the target if they were already in Afghanistan.

lol at least do a little reading
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How does MARSOC fit in the SF community?
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>>28416516

If they were spread thin the people issuing the orders would know that.

Like the guy I replied to (You?) said, its because seals are attention whores.

>>28416555

Just because I don't know the facts doesn't mean I can't realize when I'm being lied to.

You don't gotta be a chef to know that the food taste bad.
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>>28416648
they don't, really
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>>28416648

They don't. They are late to the SF party and looking for their slice of the funding pie.
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i wish i was special forces
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>>28416678
What role, exactly, do they intend to fill?
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>>28415905
busy trading logs of Grizzly wintergreen dip and posting on facebook about the war to try and score some nudes off a gullible girl that doesnt realize how lame the military is?
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>>28415845
they only crashed one
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>>28416648
>>28416666
>>28416678

>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/rumsfelds-renegade-unit-blamed-for-afghan-deaths-1685704.html

MARSOC in Afghanistan was basically a bunch of war criminals. Like the localized Tiger Force, I guess.
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Even in 2011, DEVGRU was well known. People knew the squadron insignia, their specialized equipment compared with the vanilla teams, the fact that they were using 416s, etc. IMO that's a complete failure of OPSEC.

DEVGRU should honestly be disbanded and replaced with a more clandestine organization will a zero tolerance OPSEC policy because they're a classic example of how small breaches of information can lead to a fairly comprehensive picture of the organization. I would argue that there are more verified facts about DEVGRU than there are about the vanilla teams, because all the DG guys are huge attention whores and go on to write books and shit
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>>28416678
they were forced to be created though, the marines didnt want a special forces because muh creed, every marines a rifleman HURRRR. then the government basically said "listen, stop being faggots we ALL know that most marines are pogs and females. bring back raiders because we all know Recon are just meme battalions to troll regular grunts and drown them in swimming pools and made them run around with boats"
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Because Delta manages to capture targets. They sent in seals to kill everyone.
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>>28416971
nice memes, but there isn't a single fact in your post
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>>28416914

If I'm honest I have no idea but I'm pretty sure they are all taken. Between the seals, delta, rangers, cia sad/sog, night stalkers, isa, green berets, devgru and the weather specialists, i think it's covered.
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>>28415874
Good read
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>>28416256
lold pretty hard the marines is literally the branch of people who feel inferior or want to be tough guys.

This was an easy mission most SWAT could carry it out even Coastie MSRT coulda handled the op well. As for why it was the seals politicians want a neat name and know of only one meme organization so they picked the meme organization for the job.
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>>28416976
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Forces_Special_Operations_Command

it's meme'd but somewhat accurate
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http://theweek.com/articles/459146/how-america-decides-which-missions-give-seal-team-six
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Was it really that hard to shoot three guys with an entire team, collect intel, and then make sure the woman didn't go crazy? Did they really need Delta for that? I feel like a cook unit from the National Guard could've done that.
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>>28417202
Its easier to kill off most of the seal team afterwords than it would be delta. They might have raised a stink.
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>>28416977
>ISA
>Weather Specialists
What are these? I'm gonna give it a google but I haven't heard of these.
Maybe they could attach MARSOC to a stealth version of the LCS and give the LCS a form of autonomy. Yknow like, brown water version of Mass Effect.
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>>28417360
Weather Specialists are Air Force IIRC. They're like weatherman commandos. Go behind enemy lines and set up weather monitoring equipment or tag along with other teams headed into extreme environments to make sure they don't all get swept into a frosty crevasse in the Himalayas or some shit. It's a very odd role.
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>>28417373
That's... Kinda cool. Science and guns. I like it.
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>>28416977
Not listing Pararesuce and special tactics officers no MSRT or TACLET

Cmon
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>>28417360
ISA is Intelligence Support Activity, they support other SOF groups like Delta with intel collection, path finding and some other shit, they're very secretive and not much is known

I'd like to join them, but Im not sure what the best route to it is, something to do with HUMINT i think
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To quote CAG: "we had better things to do."
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>>28417527
I'm looking into HUMINT as well but for the Marine Officer route. I'm going PLC but I was reading that HUMINT has to go through recon school. I'm a pretty in shape guy but I'm not sure if I've got what it takes to make it through recon school.
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>>28416442
Except they didn't know it was Osama. They were just killing some dude in Pakistan for all they knew.
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>>28417736
That isn't the way canned missions work.
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>>28417736
I thought they were told right before they left to go kill him
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>>28417714
>but I'm not sure if I've got what it takes to make it through recon school

You'll never know if you don't try , eh? I'm pretty sure if you give it your all you can
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>>28417783
Right, right. That's why they had a duplicate of the compound to practice in for months and months, and almost went in twice before until Valerie Jarrett pulled the plug on them. They had no idea who was in there. None.
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>>28417736
>>28417783

According to the pentagon, at the time of them practicing on a replication of the compound in texas, they didn't know who the target was. Keep in mind at this time the CIA wasn't sure who the target was unless you buy Hersh's version of events. In the movie "Mia" was confident it was bin laden but there is no reason to assume that's the truth. They were likely told by whomever was their direct contact to the CIA that it fit the profile of Al Qaeda or Haqqani network leadership as that would be pertinent information on what to expect during the raid as far as collecting intel, resistance from the target, ect.
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>>28417921
> Keep in mind at this time the CIA wasn't sure who the target was

Sir, some guy is living in a house in Pakistan
Welp, better train our seals to kill him
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>>28417959
Yeah, that's a thing that gets done, dumbass. How the fuck do you think raids work?
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>>28417959
Who was receiving an Al Qaeda-linked courier, never left the compound, burned all of his trash, and was probably in contact with the ISI. It may not have been Bin Laden, but it was fucking somebody we want dead.

If you think that was the first time we violated Pakistani sovereignty to conduct a raid, you're stupid.
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>>28418001
>Pakistani sovereignty.
I don't think that, and I'm pretty sure we did them a favor. At least as far as the elements we negotiate with.
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>>28417002
Read his second book called No Hero. Talked a lot about his other experiences and some SEAL culture. Really humble guy actually. My favorite part was when he called the CIA one big pissing contest and shit all over one of their agents he was working with because the guy was "fresh off the cocktail circuit" and expected the afghan commandos they were with to wait on him night and day.
random pic unrelated.
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>>28416932
>believing bong press
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>>28416442
Go to bed dad, stop browsing 4chan
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>>28415905
Fucking boot
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>>28416972
Underrated
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>>28416595
This combined with likely unit rotation making ST6 immediately deployable.
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>>28416954
NS was compared that very night by the White House.
And ITT: people talking about topics that they have no fucking clue about. Stay in your lanes for fucks sake.
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>>28420262
>>28420262
This is 4Chan, everyone here is in a fucking clown car, there are no lanes!

Anyone with a clue is elsewhere.
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>>28420447
OP chan and infinity /k/
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>>28416442
>You clearly don't understand officers and how they view their careers.
I really don't think that type of officer gets into Delta.
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anybody have the charlie hebdo global ct diagram?
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>>28423100
yeah
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>>28423131
care2share?
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>>28423193
nah
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>>28416012

The reply you so desperately wanted.
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>>28418333

It's a school night Timmy, you better get on the bus on time.

If not, me and your Uncle Randy are gonna reeducate you in the basement.

>notsosubtlerapejoke.docx
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>>28416666

Quads have been checked.

Proceed, Sir.
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>>28416442

>never read books about delta soldiers and officers
>believes they would even let a career driven officer past selection
>pretending this raid meant anything to anyone

Delta and the CIA are so intertwined that they probably knew just what a sham this was. But if it was the real deal,
1) There was going to be a ton of publicity with it which Delta adamantly avoids.
2) It wasn't worth their time even if it was the real Osama. He was so far removed from anything terrorist and current that it would not be worth the time or the risk for such a low value target.

Delta is used for the here and now. The newest, biggest and future threats. Let the SEALS have the glory.
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>>28415826
>Omaha swat
We have swat here? Who knew...
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>>28416013
>airshit
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>>28424387

Is there a mentally handicapped group on /k/?
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The SEAL team was closer and they had embedded SAD if I'm remembering correctly.

Delta is the best that the DoD has, SAD is the best of America - Paramilitary officers are the cream of the crop.
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>>28424387

I was also 13 years old, once
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>>28415983
Apparently they mag dumped into his body so it was too graphic to share with the public.
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>>28424713
You could dress up like you do, and carry out that raid.
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are you guys pathetic ? everyone knows who isnt a meme that seals are better trained and the best soldiers in the military
better than rangers, delta force and green berrets

saying something else is bait and will be filtered
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>>28417857
That was extremely boring
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>>28415791
There is no "best". SEAL teams are extremely well trained for direct action operations. How they settled on a SEAL team rather than a SFOD team would be pure conjecture on my part, but I'd wager geography played a prominent factor in a time sensitive operation.
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>>28424878
What is that SAD does that makes them the best of America and cream of the crop?
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>>28416924
with no survivors?
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>>28418282
Everybody knows U.S is conducting questionable (bordering or actual war crimes) operations. So does every single major and some minor military in the world. You aren't just supposed to get caught doing them.
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>>28416435
>implying the CIA doesn't already have their own dedicated well-oiled kill squads
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>>28427257
Keep their mouth shut.
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>>28427895

In enough numbers to ensure the raid goes smoothly no. No doubt they have ex delta/ seal trigger pullers but you need a lot of them and as cia I doubt that is their main function. Seals are shooting faggots all day every day.
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>>28415791

because you can seal a delta
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>>28427257
Their combat load includes millions of dollars in cash to buy loyalties.
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>>28429117
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annecy_shootings

implying you need more than one guy.
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>>28417714
You go through TBS, then straight to the HUMINT course. Ground Intel goes through IOC/SSULC before finishing with Intel training, although many guys went through to recon from my class.
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>>28420258
Is bowstring USASOC wide or just for CAG?
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>>28426912
Yes, and then they dumped it into the sea immediately so that there wouldn't be a martyr site.

Smells of bullshit.
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>>28416102
>we

What vessel are you assigned to? Poser
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>>28416923
Hahahahahaha fuck this is too funny.

I know too many 0311's that are the exact person you just described.
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>>28415791
Delta doesn't have movies in theaters every two years detailing what they do for American support. Why execute a propaganda op with people who don't talk?

The guy who taught me guns and shooting and taught my CHL class years later was a green beret jump master, and his green beret buddies and two chair force PJ's that attend our church mock the SEALs, called them "Share Everything, Alleviate Loneliness".
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>>28415791
CAG are high level special forces, probably the best at what they do, think unconventional warfare.
They are all amazing shooters at any range, and great at CQB, it isn't their primary focus.

Now these other guys, the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, or DEVGRU, are all amazing shooters and probably the best at what they do, and CQB their specialty.

Although don't be mislead by this post, although they may be 'better' than the other at very specific goals, more likely than not they are both only seconded by each other as the 2 best groups overall in regards to any kind of infantry combat.
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>>28415874
whats it like to be this wrong every day?
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>>28417736
>middle of Pakistan
>modified blackhawks with stealth properties
>Obama himself in the situation room
Yeah, they didn't know for sure it was Osama. But they knew it was Osama.
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>>28416595
they have plenty of books. i dont get why people seem to forget this
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>>28417700
bullshit
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>Osama
>Dead
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Want a man dead call the Seals.

Want a man to disappear you call Delta.
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>>28435379
Yay more "info" from someone who has no idea what they're talking about.
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>>28416442
They only sent in 4 people? Mayne your high asf.
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>>28424752
Yep they call themselves /k/omandos.
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>>28416932
Oh God not this bullshit again. Fuck off.
>independont.co.uk.
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>>28416442
>I know I sound tinfoil
Roger that
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>>28435368
A green Beret mocking the SEALs as attention whores - that's fucking rich. Suggest you should learn more about the Green Berets - from someone other than a Green Beret - the original made for the big screen attention whores.
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>>28415791
>2016
>still comparing delta to seals
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>>28429501
No, those are usually political officers.

Accompanied by paramilitary officers, if not a political, a liaison/asset with a particular populace.

>>28427257
They're broken men held together by the glue of purpose. They don't have to worry about borders or international law, they've been deemed above those by their controlling party. They've earned that right through experience and pure will power.
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>>28435379
>Besides the SEAL’s maritime capabilities, one key area of differentiation in the eyes of the operators is their respective approaches when things go kinetic. An ex-Delta operator described the Unit’s CQB style as “free flow, instinctive, and explosive,” as compared to ST6’s “more controlled and rigid” tactics.

>In Fury’s account of the Battle of Tora Bora, Kill Bin Laden, he describes Delta’s CQB skills thusly: “Watching Delta operators conduct “free flow” CQB on targets with unknown floor plans is one of the most awesome sights of controlled chaos one can imagine. The sequence is anything but choreographed, but the operators effortlessly sweep through a structure like red ants going through familiar, twisting corridors. Delta’s method and skill in CQB is unmatched by any other force in existence.”

---------------------------------------------------

>Watching Delta take down a building is like watching a carefully orchestrated Ballet. Watching Six take down a compound is a demonstration in violence, speed and aggression. They are both very good at what they do, both have very similar missions -yet both have very distinct personalities. Six is very physical, very quick and aggressive. Delta is very thoughtful, careful and reserved.

>Although I spent 8 years at Dev Gru -I have tremendous respect for Green (delta). there is a very healthy rivalry and over the past 5 years, Dev Gru has risen a notch above Green due to its nature of aggressive and daring tactics as opposed to more "cerebral" tactics.
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>>28437063

I could only find the source for one of these; where are you getting this from?
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>>28415826
>>28424713
>Omaha

Papillionfag reporting in, what's good faggots
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The most likely possibility is most of DELTA was tied up in theater while a SEALS unit was immediately available, and they would have achieved the same performance regardless. If you were a conspiracy theorist, SEALS are also more marketable and tend to go public so they would have naturally been a better choice for an administration publicity campaign.
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>>28415791
I've done some training with Omaha SRT and they are pretty good actually. They have some team leaders and designated marksman that are top shelf.
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>>28437063
In his book, Inside Delta Force, Eric L. Haney talks about when they learned the modern techniques of CQB. He says they had four guys (Bill, Bob, Allen and Mike) teaching them room entries and clearing. Who could have been the guys that taught the first generation of Delta Force? Were they British SAS? Charlie Beckwith did serve with the SAS, so it makes sense.
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>>28417019
Why the fuck do you use a fucking name when you spew out such retarded bullshit.

It was a political sensitive job carried out by the people who are tasked with political sensitive jobs.
There is more to an operation than the raid on the compound. getting there is one, getting out of there is another.
Doing these things inside a country who does not know, or like, you being there sure makes everything different.
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Like there's any real difference between units
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>>28437884
Fuck yeah 402 fags. We have a SWAT, it's just not called SWAT. Friends dad growing up did it.
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>>28415791
Jobbers
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Well if you want to be real here.

This was a textbook ranger OP.

As a matter of fact, the rangers had this OP before DoD was all like "NAW SEAL TEAM 6! MUH PUBLICITY!"

Seriously, I'm not saying CAG or DEV can't stack on doors or anything, but they don't do HVT raids like this nearly as much as the 75th does.

Normally CAG is tasked for hostage rescue/intel gathering.

DEV is normally tasked with drug/human trafficing raids.

Litterally all the 75th does is HVT and house to house raiding all day.


Again, not saying CAG and DEV can't or don't do this type of thing, but by and large, this was a 75th style OP
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>>28415791
You fucking idiot, they are all just trigger pullers. The idea that one branch or another has any real advantage over another is dead wrong. They all have the training, the only difference is who is closest to the target and which branch gets the brownie points for executing a successful operation at the time.
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>>28429117
OGA has plenty of guys. Its not like they don't have enough drug money to support them.

I also really think it is their way of making sure the SF guys who are not complete fuckups get a nice chunk of cash before they retire from actually pulling triggers.
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>>28435314
Aren't they all that guy?
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if delta force was the best you wouldn't know about delta force
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>>28415905
rah!
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>>28424387

>publicity with it which Delta adamantly avoids

Yeah it's not like delta operators have ever written tell-all books or anything
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That's because DEVGRU isn't military.
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>>28415983
Bin Laden's been dead since 2003 but Obama sure as shit wanted his credit.
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>>28440561
ex....delta operators
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>>28415826
Police Let me see your hands
Search Warrant Come out with your hands up
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>>28441850
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>>28440561

What is misdirection and cointelpro
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>>28435521
Not bullshit.
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>>28442602
proof then. i cant see delta not wanting to kill bin
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>>28443188
It's not that they didn't want to kill them. They had "better stuff to do." Doubt many could tell you specifically what that stuff was.
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