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So, I just did a bit of math, and found this out.
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So, I just did a bit of math, and found this out.
It costs around $40,000 on average to send a kid through 4 years of college. That's a good chunk of change, and basically unachievable if you're from a poor family. Even if you're decently well off, you'll be paying student loan debt off for years. Really, the only people who can get through college unscathed are rich kids.
An F-35 fighter jet costs $125,000,000 per unit. The government plans to buy 1,700 of them.
For the cost of a single F-35 fighter you could give more than 3,000 kids a full ride through college. If you were to keep the A-10s in the inventory and shave 300 F-35s off the final order, that money could put more than 860,000 kids through college.
I'm not talking about cancelling the whole order of 1,700 new figher jets, I'm talking about trimming that number down in favor of a more cost-effective and proven CAS airframe and sending a small city's worth of kids to school.
If you requisitioned the funds of 300 fighter jet purchases for use in education you'd be helping hundreds of thousands of people shatter a glass ceiling that's been holding back a huge segment of the population, and that's just in per-unit cost. That's not even getting into the annual operating and maintenance costs of the things. Doing this could go a long way towards straightening out the whole income gap thing, but nah, we need a preponderance of cool fighter jets.
Well, at least we have our priorities straight.
Also, goddamn, this is pretty OWS-tier.
>>
>Military Industrial Complex

There's a reason Eisenhower warned everyone.
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PROTIP: Fighter jets are a better investment than poor people.
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OP here, I just realized how hard that is to read. I apologize for the formatting.
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>>23365753
You sound like Republican friends I have, only they say that without a hint of irony.
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Why is it that people who don't know what they're talking about like sharing their opinion the most?

OP, you're retarded
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>>23365786
Did you see any irony?

Fuck poor people, gotta bomb niggers and keep the oil flowing.
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We don't need a down-payment on America's future if we can have more these, I guess.
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>>23365816
lol, fair enough
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>>23365835
>F35B

I sure hope not
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>>23365852
NUH UHHHHHH, WE NEED THEM!

-John McCain
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>>23365816
>>23365835
I don't want to live in a future where sexy jets are not the main priority.
Poor people will shit up the place with communism, jets bomb communism.
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>>23365689
>implying there isn't millions in federal and private interest scholarships each year
Be smart and work hard.
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>>23365689
fuck poor people
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>>23365689
>It costs around $40,000 on average to send a kid through 4 years of college. That's a good chunk of change, and basically unachievable if you're from a poor family. Even if you're decently well off, you'll be paying student loan debt off for years. Really, the only people who can get through college unscathed are rich kids.
And if you were to subside college educations with government money the cost would skyrocket, just like easy student loans and massive federal aid have been causing since the 1980's. It turns out that people raise their prices when more money is chasing their goods. Shocker, that.

>An F-35 fighter jet costs $125,000,000 per unit. The government plans to buy 1,700 of them.
At $83,400,000 per unit. Mass production lowers costs from where they are now in LRIP

>I'm not talking about cancelling the whole order of 1,700 new figher jets, I'm talking about trimming that number down in favor of a more cost-effective and proven CAS airframe and sending a small city's worth of kids to school.

>Implying the F-35 only does CAS
>Implying the A-10 will remain viable as a platform in the next 10 years
>Implying A-10 airframes aren't running out of hours as it is.

>If you requisitioned the funds of 300 fighter jet purchases for use in education you'd be helping hundreds of thousands of people shatter a glass ceiling that's been holding back a huge segment of the population, and that's just in per-unit cost.

Except being poor and getting through college is totally possible if you're hard-working. Plenty of financial aid and needs-based scholarships exist. I haven't actually paid for tuition ever because of this fact. I have a friend in the same situation, but the University also paid for his housing and food for his first year.

>Also, goddamn, this is pretty OWS-tier.
If by that you mean that your argument is retarded as OWS was, then yes.
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>>23365906
And how many people end up seeing all those millions?

It's damn near impossible to "work hard" enough to drag yourself out of poverty, and for every person who succeeds in doing so there's another 99 who tried and failed.

There's so many barriers to entry to the middle class that are impossible to break down without an education. You want to be a blue collar worker kind of guy? It can take months of time and thousands of dollars just to pick up a welding certification. Want to go further? It can take 2 years and $20,000 to pick up a simple associate's degree. Want to be a professional like a nurse, accountant or teacher? It costs a bare minimum of $40,000 to get into an accredited state school to pick up a bachelor's degree.

That's out of the reach of most people, but the federal government treats sums of money that size like toilet paper.
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>>23365689

So you want to cut down the number of F-35's being orderd? The result is that the cost per plane increases (R&D costs are spread over fewer planes) and you can buy less planes with a similar amount of money then what you would be spending anyway on the F-35. This is how the F-22A and B-2A have been "killed" (187 F-22A's instead of the original 800 or 20 B-2A's instead of the original 160).

Also, all those kids would probably go and choose women studies or something useless like that.
>>
>>23366145
You're missing the point here, guy. I'm not saying we loan out or subside college educations. I'm saying we do it like Germany and the Nordic countries do, and pay tuition with that money, full ride, without needing it back.

And like I said, there's paywalls to better futures. If you're lucky, you can maybe save up enough cash to pay your way through a community college if you're living below the poverty line. It's not a good option for most people in that situation.
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>>23366236
Isn't the damn thing already fully researched and developed? How would R&D factor in to a completed product?
>>
How bout we order zero and stop spending money we don't have?
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>>23365689
So Obama has added what 8 trillion to the debt in 6 years.
All College costs by US citizens over that same period would be at most 300 or 400 billion.
We could easily make college free in this country OP.

But the powers that be don't
Why do they do this?

Because they want skilled wage slaves.
They want you to be poor.
F-35's were never the issue.
The system is, that's REALITY
Now go deal with it.
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>>23366300
OP here, I'm not suggesting we go that far. The Russkies would love it, to be sure, but I think the F-35 does have a place.

Just in smaller numbers, with that money being put into better places.
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>>23366305
...new tripfag?
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>>23365719
No one listened to Ike, and that's the biggest goddamn shame of US history.
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>>23366336
I'm only as new as the board
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>>23365689

>3000 people with some bullshit degree in basket weaving
>cool jet

Come on. If anyone cant figure out how to pay for college by now they must be literally retarded. Free college money is getting thrown around like candy to anyone that's ever had it somewhat hard. Plus other scholarships just for being smart at shit.

I mean some people are just huge dumb asses and aren't meant for college.
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>>23366199
>it can take 2 years to get an associates degree
That's considered being a full time student, do you think it magically takes rich people less time to earn their degree?
>$20,000
There is such a thing as community college you know? It's generally much cheaper and most of the professors also teach at large universities.
>what is fafsa
>>
>>23365719
>>23366352

Slavs pls go

Of all the massive US spending on weapons, Entitlements easily outstrip them.
Weapons aren't the issue
Congress would rather give extra fucking houses to baby boomers because college kids are too dense to vote for their interests or even organize.
College could be free in the US, for service academies it IS free.
The issue is not a weapons program, it is the system.
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>>23366378
>What is FAFSA

It's a trap that snares students early on in their lives and turns them into wage slaves for the first few years of their adulthood, trying to pay off student loans while still having enough to live comfortably in a shitty little apartment.
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>>23365689
Or these poor fags can enlist and have college paid for. Earn that shit one way or another. Nothing should be free just cause
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>>23366405
Where did I even talk about weapons programs? Ike's point was that we gave the US gov a fuckload of power and no one actually cared enough to be careful who got the power.
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>>23366405
More people in college means a larger educated workforce.

A larger educated workforce means higher productivity and more jobs.

More jobs means less people on welfare.

TA-DA!
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>>23365689
>send a kid through 4 years of college

There is nothing good or admirable about sending kids through 4 years of brainwashing.
>>
>retards ITT who think countries thrive on war and war only
This country's top priority is to keep an educated workforce.
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>>23366451
*tips tinfoil fedora*
Anarchists detected
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>>23366426
Except most kids these days are simply unfit for the military; most of them are either overweight or have disqualifiying health problems or injuries that prevent them from even trying to join, and for those that do, even Army basic has only a 70% success rate, give or take.

People failing out of places like Relaxin' Jackson is another problem for another thread, but it happens.
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>>23366416
Then study hard and get good grades and apply for a grant or better yet, multiple grants. Even better, work part time, go to school part time and graduate debt free.
>>
or those 860,000 people could just pay for their own fucking college?
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>>23366378
Exactly.

I don't get the "COLLEGE IS ESPENSIVE" bs.

I'm going to an expensive as fuck private school to the tune of 32k a year.

16$k is paid in a from the school scholarship
Then FAFSA
Then subsidized standford loans (like 2 freaking k whoopdy do)
Then state grants
Then JUST my 1606 benefits.

I only owe my school 2800$ this semester, which I will pay off with my TA. Rest of school will be free.

And student loans, when below around 10k, are perfectly fine. It is this concept called building credit, something edgy Fox news watching high school kids won't understand.
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>>23366451
What an idiot.
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>>23366436
No, a larger educated workforce means your degree is worth less since you're easily replaced and the job market is saturated with degree holders.
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>>23365689
>uncle sugar gives a million kids a free ride through school
>colleges raise prices because admissions are up, people must be able to afford this shit

The biggest problem is 700k of those kids would major in gender studies, underwater basket weaving or the gender struggle of underwater basket weavers and promptly contribute nothing to the economy past filling the quota for entitled fast food workers
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>>23366355
Said every new trip fag ever
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>>23366236
>160
>160 B2A
>ONE HUNDRED BUTTFUCKING SIXTY B2 SPIRITS

JESUS
FUCKING
CHRIST
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>>23366479
So when do you think you'll have paid off all that debt? 50? 60? 70?
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>>23366543
A lot of people would have reacted like that.

Right before they died.
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>>23366483
Grants are still liable to be repayed, and the average Pell grant is only about $2,700 per semester. That's not going to get you through a full school year. I go to drill with a guy who used Pell grants and his GI Bill to pay his way through school and he still ended up on the other side with debt.
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>>23366431
If you really think the MIC is America's current biggest problem I don't know what drugs you're on. Between the borderline amnesty, banking bailouts, food stamps and obvious lies from the BLS we are up to our ass in other more relevant shit. Defense spending has fallen for 5 straight years, and will decline for another 7. Good luck hearing about this on any media outlet that isn't shilling for the right. Good luck getting the White House to objectively talk about this.
The problem isn't a Military Industrial complex, which gets weaker every year
It's a Media-Political-Entitlement complex that gets stronger, more entrenched and tramples rights. And that complex gets stronger every year and doesn't do a goddam thing the USA.
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>>23366502
Have you considered the idea that not everyone in the world is you?
>>
Fuck the doomed
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>>23366570
Oh, I get it. Cliven Bundy is posting on the board.
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>>23366570
It's not what I think America's biggest problem is. It's the people running. These people are also the people fucking all of our other shit up.
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>>23365689
All you'd be doing is making a bunch of anti gun liberals and feminists, and if you don't believe me, then you haven't seen the state of Academia for the past decade.
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This is why I decided to get an associates degree in machine tool technology.


All total it'll be something in the $12-13k mark. And half of that will be paid by my state's lottery tuition fund.
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>>23366560
Yeah, how much was his tuition?
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>>23366604
Community college isn't a bad way to go as long as you pick the right major.
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>>23366554
Just imagine the panic to invent quality anti-stealth radar though

The simple fact of that many existing would lead to a massive effort to render their stealth obsolete and then you have a hundred and sixty really expensive and slow hangar queens. GG no re murika
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>>23366623
>Anti-stealth radar
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>>23366637
How would you deal with 160 B2? The A-Team?
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>>23365689
You seem to be forgetting the fact there's a glut of educated people as it is. People with masters degrees working at mcdonalds, etc. If anything there needs to be less people able to get higher education at the moment. That way you have unskilled morons doing unskilled moron jobs, not protesting for $15 minimum wage because they're smart enough to see they're being screwed.
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>>23366653
>use L-band or VHS-band radar to obtain a rough heading
>use VLO fighter aircraft to try and get a thermal lock before getting splashed
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>>23366653
Whenever I read someone say "Anti-stealth radar" or "Stealth makes the jet invisible on radar" I immediately know the person who made the post has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and immediately regard his post as a joke, since the poster is just that, a joke.
>>
>>23366653
The universal problem solver. Copious amounts of semen.
>>
a single f-35 can kill 100s of communists and derka derkas

on the other hand you could be making 3000 new communists and derka derka sympathizers in the liberal indoctrination system

now I'm not saying the f-35 is money well spent, but cut the bullshit about "muh free college"
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>>23366480
Bro I hear ya and honestly I find it hard to care. My dad died when I was a kid and I couldn't afford school like my friends so I enlisted and deployed twice, got my e-5 in three years, got out in four. I go to school full time while having a part time job because I refuse to be poor. If your fat, unhealthy, or stupid, maybe you aren't meant for this world. I work at a hospital and seeing all the fat fucks and young people on disability sucking up tax dollars really sickens me. They should move to Europe so their socialist governments can take care of them. I believe in capitalism and I don't want to see america go the way of Europe. Personal responsibility, buy healthcare and be healthy and work hard. Expect nothing from no one besides yourself.
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>>23366603
>>23366660
I know this is a bit of an issue, which is why we need to somehow incentivize going into scientific or engineering fields, as opposed to liberal arts.

I'm not sure how to do that, but I'd be open to ideas.
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>>23365689
Believe it or not, we spend more money on old fucks SS pensions.
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>>23366700
>go into this field
>there's money there

If they can't react to market incentives, they aren't that valuable labor to begin with.
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>>23366607
He went to a state university for a bachelor's degree, it wasn't much more than $40,000.
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>>23366660
The only reason people are protesting for $15/h minimum wage is because they're confusing a job with a career.
>>
Fuck the goddamn proletariat.
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>>23366709
Lol, true.

Really, though, we would need to put an added emphasis on science and math in the public education system, and I have a hard time seeing many Republican-dominated areas going along with that.
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>>23366720
There legitimately was a time in American history where you could support a family with a minimum wage job.

It just isn't economically feasible now, but it was a thing that happened once.
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>>23366700
Don't tell kids shit like "you need to learn this math because isaid so" anymore, tell them that math and science is the way to understand the universe, and to solve mysteries.

But I keep noticing that a lot of these liberal arts students showed up for something else, and ended up into liberal arts.
>>
STEM degrees should be free
and no OP F-35 orders should not be cut
we should pay for it by cutting foreign aid, hand-outs, unemployment, bail outs, and Obamacare.
>>
>>23366734
I've thought that school-choice reform and privatization might be the best option for fixing our broken-ass education system.

And Republicans should be fine with science as long as it doesn't involve evolution, the gays or global warming.
>>
>>23365719
This is depressing m8. I cringe at the thought of this
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>>23366708
Social Security is in serious trouble, I admit it, and the one good thing Bush tried to do was fix it, but he ran into too much resistance.
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>>23366749
But how will be solve the gay gene? Do you want AIDS to spread further?
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>>23366744
I like the Idea of subsidizing degree programs we want to encourage.
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>>23366710
And the gi bill is worth roughly $50k, what's the problem here?
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>>23366760
I'd make a snide remark about letting the gays come out of the closet and not having any kids.

But it's probably carried by recessive genes.

I wouldn't be opposed to using gene therapy to prevent gay from existing in the future, but the Republicans are actually much more concerned about scientific ethics than Democrats, mainly because of the abortion debate.
>>
>>23366737
Do you think raising the minimum wage will honestly help the lower class?
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>>23366679
You know damn well the post was about how that many B2 being in USAF inventory would have triggered the rapid development and deployment of countermeasures specific to that aircraft, not what those countermeasures would be. Take the stick out of your ass.
>>
>>23366737
Here's the thing, the minimum wage was initially brought about as a way to protect both skilled and unskilled labor back in the day. Now, a minimum wage job is literally something a high school or college kid does while he's on summer vacation or looking for some cash to tide him over until he finds a job in his field, and trying to make a living off of a job that a robot could do is short-sighted. I may be a liberal, but I'm smart enough to know that raising it now would be a stupid idea.
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>>23366773
It depends actually goy
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>>23366780
No, that's why I said "not economically feasible anymore."

I'd like to improve the public services that poor people depend upon, but that isn't a matter of more funding so much as more competence.
>>
>>23366766
>>23366766
I can agree on this

Science, mathematics, and other useful degrees should be free.

Psychology and womens studies? Pay up.
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>>23366756
Yeah our political class doesn't offer such a thing as solutions to problems anymore. Dreams over, new system in-bound.
>>
>>23366737
And what was feasible in the 1950's is irrelevant to the economic climate of today so that doesn't matter.
>>
>1,700
I still have no idea where this number came from. Fact check, OP, the USG is still intent on purchasing 2427 airframes.
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>>23366773
Post 9/11 pays way more than that
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>>23366749
Considering science is linked to all three, you can understand how that might cause some consternation within the GOP.

>>23366760
Homosexuality is actually caused by horomone levels within the womb. Higher estrogen for a male makes it more likely he'll be bi or gay, vice versa for testosterone and girls.
>>
>>23366800
Yeah, that would make them highly competitive too.
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>>23366813
i chose GI bill, am i fucked m8?
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>>23365689
>Using tax payer money to pay for jamal to go to school and fuck around and not learn shit
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>>23366809
I agree completely.

Even now, though, it wouldn't be such a severe problem if poor people raised their children in two parent households with married parents like they did more often in the 50s, lower cost housing wasn't swamped in crime and failing communities, and services like education and health care weren't systematically broken at every level.

These are things that make it much harder to survive on the bottom of American society than it once was.
>>
>>23366813
>not raping the post 9/11 by moving to new york with your homies collecting a cool 3700 a month just for going to school... for free nigga
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>>23366825
GI Bill is broken into two versions, Montgomery and Post 9/11.

Either old time vet, or never served.
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>>23366811
I see that. I must have only looked at the Air Force order.
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>>23366815
If you advertise it as business friendly and stick to subjects that don't involve humans as much, they should bite.
>>
>>23365689
>It costs around $40,000 on average to send a kid through 4 years of college

does that include books, tuition and room and board? everything?
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>>23366825
You paid the 1200 for the monty gi bill? You can still get the post 9/11 and you'll get that 1200 back too
>>
>Look at how many kids we could put through college with this money!

Congratulations, the price of college skyrockets because amazingly if everyone's paying your price without complaining you tend to raise it.

Now your colleges are stuffed to the gills with people that don't want to be there. Sure you'll get people who are looking for a way up, but for every one of them there will be five who get pushed by their parents and then decide to idle by on some manner of art or basket weaving degree.

Curriculum is dumbed down to make sure the necessary percentages of these idiots pass, which ultimately waters down the value of the degrees themselves. The job market is packed to the gills with overqualified goldfish because the number of college graduates vastly exceeds the number of job openings for college graduates.

So the industry has to find a new standard of "are you worth a damn or not" which costs even more money for those dedicated enough to pursue it, while larger and larger numbers of people spend an additional two to four years sucking up taxpayer money for their "you tried!" degrees.
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>>23366773
He didn't get all that cash because of some hoop-jumping VA bullshit.
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>>23365689

All this really means is that we would just end up with even more bullshit competition for jobs, and more people with bachelors degrees working at at department stores or in restaurants.
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>>23366840
nigga board is anon... what kind of respect or admiration is he getting for that stupid post? he's probably just a boot, my guess for you would be 20 year e-6, and gay.
>>
>>23365689
I'm poor as fuck and I don't give a shit. It's better that the US has a shitload of badass jets than a bunch of people going to college. College doesn't guarantee success. College doesn't make you smarter if you don't put effort. College is only for the diploma and the title nothing else.
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>>23366788
Then how much is he actually getting? Divide that by the number of semesters he'll be going to school + the $2,700 he'll be getting per semester for the pell grant. That's how much he has to spend on school each semester, anything more is beyond his means to pay for.
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>>23366858
Human greed can be countered and controlled with regulation and oversight. Just ask this guy.

Granted, you'd need to make sure you put the right people in charge of making the new rules, which is another problem altogether, but it's been done before to the betterment of society.
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>>23366781
So you're the guy who doesn't know anything about VLO a/c, how radar works, or the B-2, yet has already formed his opinion around it.

Why do you have to make yourself out to be a fool? Is it some kind of mental disorder you have?
>>
>>23366236

This. F-35s are vital to defending our nation and our rights and freedoms which other countries and groups want to try and take away from us. College is a libtard indoctrination pyramid scheme which only enhances social decay and degeneracy. If you're not half braindead you'd realize the jets are far more important than a 4 year stint at your indoctrination camp is.
>>
>>23366858
fuck..so what's the point of all these hours of death-by-powerpoint then?
is all of this thankless ball-busting effort and losing my sleep a waste of time?
what should i be doing m8? this is making me anxious
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>>23366886
Post 9/11 gives you a MHA that is equivelant to BAH for an E-5 with dependents in the area your school is located.

The bill pays tuition up to the cost of in-state tuition rate. So private schools won't be covered unless they're a member of the "Yellow-Ribbon" program, also if they're charging you out-of-state tuition you won't get it. Luckily though, 24 states will grant you in-state tuition if you're a veteran.
>>
>>23366853
Perhaps, but medicine is a rather important field, and it has a small bit to do with human biology. It would be a hard sell.
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>>23366909
Tell me that the US having 160 B2 would not lead to everyone and their grandma shitting themselves looking for a way to deal with them
>>
>>23366928
>MHA-Monthly Housing Allowance

... what the fuck is wrong with me...
>>
>>23366930
If you can get them to understand the basic shit, colleges, which are run by libtards, should finish them up nicely.

>>23366925
If you actually get a good degree, it's worth it.

Just know what you want to do with your career before you step foot in a classroom or lay down a dime in tuition.
>>
>>23366934
The short answer to that question is "don't piss off the US."

I mean, we've always had a superior air force that nobody has any real way of countering without totally bankrupting their country.

It's the American way.
>>
>>23366934
It doesn't matter if we increase the number of B-2s or not, since there are other aircraft already existing/existed and being developed now that will be VLO (Or at least LO). Russia and China probably already are trying to develop a way to "Deal with" VLO aircraft, but this is tricky without actually determining it's actual signature on radars, the exact materials it's made out of, etc.

The B-2 has existed since '97, so why would they suddenly just NOW be making "countermeasures" for it? What about the 1700~ F-35s or 187~ F-22s we're getting/already have?
>>
>>23366960
It's honestly absurd that public education is so politicized in the first place. My field is history, and I'm working on becoming a full time high school teacher for that. From what little I've seen, smart kids have been either given a poor understanding, or utterly lied to, about everything from Columbus to the modern day, all because of message control.
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>>23365689
>not gettin rotc bux and then flying pimp tier fighter jets

do you even oper8

pic unrealated
>>
>>23367043
The problem is that only like 25% of registered voters participate in school board or city council elections.

So anyone who actually cares enough to show up, be this the religious right or SJW nuts, is able to utterly dominate the field with no real check on their power.

Add in the fact that in the US, intelligent people don't go into government service, and you have an excellent microcosm of the factors that have destroyed our civil service in general.
>>
>>23365689
>Waaah pay my debts for me mister government man
>>
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>>23366653
>How would you deal with 160 B2?
cry
>>
>>23366858

>Congratulations, the price of college skyrockets because amazingly if everyone's paying your price without complaining you tend to raise it.
No, that's what tends to happen in a completely unregulated industry.
>>
>>23365689
>$40,000 on average to send a kid through 4 years of college.
Tuition only.
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>>23367105
PROTIP: Subsidies increase usage. Increased demand means increased price.
>>
That jet payed for my college. Yay internships and a useful degree.
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>>23366480
>have disqualifiying health problems or injuries that prevent them from even trying to join
>tfw I'm one of them
>>
>>23366737
The world was a different place then. Less commodities that people felt they needed and were entitled to. Now we got all these fucks who want it all but don't want to earn it.
>>
>>23367079
You've basically hit the nail on the head for why I'm working towards being a teacher. I want to do what I can, little though it may be, to unfuck this country.
>>
>>23366960
Before i enlisted I wanted to be a fireman, I still see myself doing it. and that was the only realistic career path I found realistic for me than continue to a csu. whether i decide to reup or not thereafter in the civ div i can pop all the addies and nootropics necessary to ace those req's like a korean exchange student in Berkeley.
>>
>>23365689
>For the cost of a single F-35 fighter you could give more than 3,000 kids a full ride through college.

Because the economy needs more jobless degree holders right? You do realize this would also result in the cost of college becoming even higher right?
>>
>>23366749

>Science is great unless it conflicts with their politics

Muh feels > Your facts
>>
>>23367142
Godspeed.

Do everything you can to engender in your students a contempt and fear of authority.

That's the only useful thing I've gotten out of public education.
>>
>>23365689
I'm in aerospace engineering and the research grants and scholarships mean I get to go to school free.

Maybe you should consider a future making sexy missiles and fighter jets.
>>
>>23367163
Welcome to educational politics in the US.

Republicans are just as feelsy and emotional and shit as Dems, they just focus on different things.
>>
>>23366592
Were you born retarded or was it some sort of accident?
>>
>>23367152
You're not getting my point. I'm saying that getting more degrees into more people's hands opens more doors and puts more educated people out into the world; education allows people to be more successful, regardless of whether you go work for someone else or try to go and start your own business. It qualifies you to do more, and equips you with the skills needed to take on greater challenges. The more people who get that mental equipment, the better, I say.
>>
>>23366700
How would that help? The STEM field was a bubble and it's already shrinking. It was based on the hypothesis that Boomers would retire early and would give their jobs to the younger generation. Because of the shitty economy though they aren't retiring and so there is less jobs than expected. I know plenty of STEM degree holders who are either underemployed, forced to work abroad, or still looking for a job.
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>>23367113

Cost increases as a function of demand increases (e.g. to expand infrastructure, etc.) are completely different than skyrocketing tuition prices that are undertaken at the discretion of higher education institutions because "everyone's paying your price without complaining".
>>
>>23367165
>Engender students with contempt for authority

Maybe not contempt, but enough of a spine to challenge it and question its right to that authority, most certainly. That's how the greatest innovators are born.
>>
>>23367212
Subsidies wouldn't remove these costs.

They would just transfer them onto an already overburdened federal budget.
>>
>>23365689
So instead of having just retards, we have retards with pointless degrees. Supply and demand faggot. Saturate the market with a labor force that has degrees, and said degrees are fucking worthless. The vast majority of people without degrees aren't going to have a STEM major. In other words, their degrees will be even more worthless. Also, subsidation increases tuition, making it impossible to get a degree without the gubbermint. I'll stick to having a powerful military.
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>>23367217
No, I want you to shit out a bunch of little McVeighs and Kaczynskis.

I want future historians to look at your classroom the same way current ones look at that one bar that Gavrilo Princip and the rest of the black hand hung out in.
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>>23367253
so just leave everything how it is right now?
so why am i bothering with fucking school?
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>>23367222

Yes and yes. Although the overburdening of the federal budget is primarily a problem of bad governance--which is to say that we could afford to send a lot more kids into higher education with better fiscal management.

In any case, I assume we will completely disagree on what constitutes "bad governance" and "better fiscal management" (2A progressive here), so I'll stop here. I just wanted to point out that university profiteering can be halted by appropriate regulation, god forbid.
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>>23367257
Okay, guy
>>
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>>23366749
And here we have your typical retarded low information voter who only parrots what he hears on The Daily Show and MSNBC. Liberals are actually more likely to reject evolution, and what do faggots have to do with science? Liberals also deny embryo's as being human beings even though science says that they are. Lets not forget how they gutted NASA either.
>>
>>23366877
Close

6 years TIS E-5
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>>23367199
If all you want is smarter people then you don't need them to go to university for that. Just reading some books can be enough to "open doors for you".
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>>23367310
Excuse me.

Nothing you posted contradicted my statements.
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>>23367298
If you're not in a STEM or medical major, you may as well just quit. Even if everyone was capable of getting valuable degrees, that would make them worthless. So yes, leave things as they are, force people to compete. Weed out the useless and weak.
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>>23367222
That's why I said it would need some sort of oversight, like a board of ethics. It wouldn't be something to control the curriculum, just a body to make sure funds are used properly, schools aren't overpriced, and cronyism and corruption isn't present.
>>
>>23367310

Source the table.

>Liberals are actually more likely to reject evolution
>Liberals also deny embryo's as being human beings even though science says that they are.
Both of these statements are full of shit.

>Lets not forget how they gutted NASA either.
Don't delude yourself, defunding NASA has been a decades-long, nationwide effort. Nobody in Congress wants to give it money.
>>
>>23367310
I don't see a source for that table, guy.
>>
>>23367357
If organic market forces can't drive down tuition, it might be hard for government bureaucracy to accomplish it.
>>
>>23367363
He doesn't know how to spell, how much can you expect from him?
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>>23367357
Yes. More government and bureaucratic oversight will make everything better. In fact, lets fix prices for everything. Like gasoline and bread. And we can make sure everyone gets paid the same too.
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>>23367390
I don't think we can depend on the free market to fix education, guy. The free market is what spawned such storied institutions as DeVry University.
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>>23365689
The problem with the education system is not that there aren't enough being going to college. Standards for college have already been watered down as thing are. The problem is that there is not enough professors to teach the students. Even with classrooms for 600 students you still have tons of people going to college with a lesser major with the hopes that they will be able to switch into that fields when room becomes available. You know all those "general studies majors"? 99% of them are people who wanted to go to their school of engineering or what have you but it was full and they couldn't get in. "Encouraging people to choose STEM majors" will do nothing because they are already overcrowded as is. Some universities are even putting their courses online since they don't have classrooms for all the people. Yes, you heard me right; people are paying $10,000 a year to go to a university so they can then sit at home and take their course online.
>>
>>23367421

Be careful, it may shatter his psyche to consider that "organic market forces" aren't a panacea and that government bureaucracy created many of the country's best educational institutions in the first place.
>>
>>23367412
Government oversight doesn't equate to Marxism, guy.

>>23367425
How do you get professors? They don't just pop out of the ground. You need to train them up, and the only way to do that is to put them through college. To make more professors, you'd need to incentivize staying in school. It all comes back to making higher education available to more people.
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>>23367447
Sometimes, you must accept such casualties.
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>>23367337
well i can't continue my adult life without a degree and it better make me rich
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>>23367566
Be an engineer. We get paid very well.
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>>23367447
I'm not sure that America's civil service can create cost-effective education.
>>
>>23367566
>>23367604

Just don't be an engineer in a receeding industry, like paper science.

Go for materials. You'll be able to work anywhere.
>>
>>23367612
I think it can if the task was given to the right people.

The problem is finding the right people.
>>
>>23367677
Well, that would require a civil service that attracted intelligent, motivated people and was led by people appointed on merit instead of political patronage.

Fuck it, why don't we just ship all our kids to Norway or something.
>>
>>23367661
>>23367604
is there a stable /k/-related field that pays well
>>
>>23367702
Apparently aerospace engineering has gone in the shitter again.
>>
>>23367604
that sounds easier said than done, if i could retain information effortlessly and keep up with the workload yeah
>>
>>23367688
One can dream, my friend. One can dream.
>>
>>23365719
Under Eisenhower 10% of the American GDP was spent on the military. Pic related is the situation today, and yet still people whine and say the military costs too much. Nor is there any lower limit. European countries like Switzerland and Austria where military spending has dropped below 1% of GDP still have their leftists demanding even further cuts.
>>
>>23365689
>Doing this could go a long way towards straightening out the whole income gap thing, but nah, we need a preponderance of cool fighter jets.
No, it actually wouldn't at all. In fact what would actually happen is that several fields would be swamped with overqualified entitled faggots who got a free ride through university and are now flooding the job market, driving wages down across the board as they compete for the limited number of jobs available.

Furthermore the jobs lost in aerospace, research and the military would push even more people into the job market or unemployment.

You're a moron with no foresight or common sense. You think you know how the world works but you quite literally know nothing except the few words you read.
>PLANES EXPENSIVE
>POOR PEOPLE CANT AFFORD UNIVERSITY
>LETS NOT DO PLANES LOL THEN POOR PEOPLE CAN INTO UNIVERSITY AND EVERYONE WILL MAKE $100k A YEAR
Yes, it's so obvious and simple, unlike the real world of economics.
>>
>>23367702
>is there a stable /k/-related field that pays well
The Military pays allright if you have a degree and go officer.
>>
>>23367810
It's an example, guy.

I'm saying you could cut a little bit off a bloated segment of the budget to do a lot of good in a sector of society that badly needs it, the plane's just a figurehead.

>>23367770
There's a demand for cuts because fighting Hajj doesn't demand an arsenal big enough to win World War 3 50 times over. Even if we cut it down so we would only win 49 times over that's still enough to actually do good rather than get tied up in the pet projects of various generals and politicians looking to line their pockets with Lockheed-Martin/Boeing/Raytheon/Bell/Sikorsky money.
>>
>>23367827
a degree is what i lack, sigh.
and i havent reached that point whether i want to even stay in that long and deal with that much responsibility..senior enlisted make 3,500 and that doesnt seem realistic.
>>
>>23367810
Get buttmad faggot

>PEOPLE SHOULDN'T GET HELP FROM THEIR COUNTRY
You disgust me
>>
>>23365689
We have money to do both, and we do both. Poor people can fill out a FAFSA and literally get a 100% free ride to college

Murrika
>>
>>23367961
>THE COUNTRY SHOULD STEAL MONEY FROM SOMEONE AND GIVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE TO IMPLEMENT A HALF-ASSED SOLUTION THAT WILL ONLY MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE!

I'm betting you're part of the reason that my "affordable care" costs more now, right?
>>
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>>23365689

>tfw my tuition costs $60k a year
>tfw zero loans because my parents are paying all of it

Hahaha sure feels good being rich.

Now, can someone please tell me what those white slices in this picture are? I think it might be salo but I'm not sure.
>>
>>23365689
Military spending as a percentage of gdp is the lowest in 20years

And poor people can go to college for free (inb4 your dumbass stoner ass didn't fill out your fafsa and didn't look into trade programs) as we secure our military dominance far into the future.

Fuck off hippy
>>
>>23368017
No you just seem unwilling and unable to understand some people need the help, and it doesn't make them "handout" or whatever, they are literally unable to improve their situation with outside help.

Go fuck yourself.
>>
>>23365719
>cost-effective and proven CAS airframe
We don't manufacture space parts anymore. Doing so would be far more expensive.
>>
>>23366268
The same thing would still happen.
>>
>>23368060

Not him, but helping out others in need should be a choice, not just some automatic fee billed to those who succeed.
>>
>>23368060
I'm making $33k a year as a machinist with $80k in student loan debt.

Do I need help? Absolutely. Do I define help as someone taking my money in order to flood the market with cheap labor, actively hurting my chances to make a reasonable amount of money? Do I define help as someone taking my money to give people insurance while at the same time increasing my insurance costs? Absolutely not.

How about we make a deal. Let's just not fund social programs with taxes! That way, if you feel so guilty about your success that you feel the need to help others, you can! I can keep all of the money that I actually need and donate some to charity for people that actually deserve to get help!
>>
>>23366523
> the minimum wage argument

paying poor people a lot of money just results in them spending ever dollar over rent they make
>>
>>23367025
Were talking about if the original run had been the full 160, not if we suddenly started building new ones. Back then 160 spirits would have scared the piss out of everyone
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>>23365689
>MUH SOCIAL WELFARE
Go fuck yourself.

If those faggots want to go to college, they can nut up and figure that shit out themselves. Not by taking fucking tax dollars out of my pocket to pay for their wants.

There's plenty of other ways to use that money, not that I mind the F-35 in the first place. But the last place my money should be going is to pay Jamal's way through college where he can pull with a D average at best and get blazed every day.

Eat a bag of dicks OP.
>>
>>23368287
I honestly wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for the fact that most colleges offer degrees which can only be described as only existing to offer the 'college experience' rather than learning.

Half the damn courses I've seen are jobs you do not need a degree for. Hell, some of them you could do with a couple of days of mentoring.
>>
>>23365689
This is not the 1960s, college is not necessary anymore. If you aren't skilled and intelligent enough to get enough grants or scholarships to get you a STEM degree then going to college is a waste of time if you can't afford it and you would be better off learning a trade and getting certified.
>>
>>23367903
>because fighting Hajj doesn't demand an arsenal big enough to win World War 3 50 times over
Congrats on being an idiot. You'd think people would have learned after WWI/WWII you shouldn't gut your fucking military thinking your next war will be the same as your current/last.

Go ahead, slash and burn. I'm sure that mindset will work well right up until we fight someone who's not a hajji goatfucker, at which time you and the ilk who think that mindset makes any sense bitch about how we weren't prepared at all.
>>
>>23368334

I think you've got it backwards. Before having a STEM degree meant you were hot shit and meant you were basically guaranteed into the upper middle class.

Nowadays a bachelors is about as useful as a high school diploma in the 60s, it's expected out of everyone. In science if you want to actually do any research you need a PHD at the minimum, having just a bachelors or masters means you can basically do lab tech work and that's it.
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>>23365689
>implying going to college is going to help you get a job

and the F-35 is down to a 100mil per plane.
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>>23366536
they'll raise it solely because of uncle sam
works for defense contractors with military contracts
>>
>>23366544

I'm done next year and I'm 33. Could have paid it off faster but I wanted more spending money.

Ivy League by the way, so my edumacation cost well more than average.
>>
>>23365689
Join the military, trade your time for education.
too fucked in the head, unmotivated, conscious objectivy, or any other thing?
Join the merchant marines. Learn to know whats out there.
Join an oil company.
Leave your big city and migrate, see the world. Leave your small town and migrate to where opportunity is. It is there, you are lazy.

Both my parents were dead before i was 11. I went through multiple houses, dealt with all sorts of shit. Guess what? I wasn't a bitch about it, didnt carry that cross. Fuck it. Live life, blame no one but yourself, accrue debt on student loans but fucking pick a career you know is viable. Too hard you say, too much studying or you dont get it? Clearly you dont want it so bad.

This post was like the most crafty troll post ever OP. well done.
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