A lot has happend in the war between the seperatists and the Ukrainians on the frontiers of the Eastern Ukraine in the past couple of days.
It appears that the Ukrainian general offensive stalled and that the seperatists have launched a counteroffensive on their own and has seemingly broken through the southern lines of the Ukrainian army, surrounding various units and made a dash towards the coast, hugging the Russian border.
Better question is how did NATO think they'd win a proxy war against russia by half-assing it?
The rebels aren't fucking around and the Ukr military doesn't give that much of a shit because they are only fighting for $300 a month and for an IMF puppet regime. Most of these people aren't even close to fighting condition let alone physical condition to run a mile.
Putin just keeps pouring men and material in
Ukraine can't outlast or overpower the steady drip-drip of Russian men and firepower
Wait so is the seppie breakout from around Donestk confirmed?
How far are the rebs from Mariupol?
Mariupol has several key facilities for Russia's defense industry so it's a prize for them
An anon in the previous thread realy nailed it.
Pic = 1/3.
Yea. Couldn't have been Russia who did this. No, Noah, now way was it Putin. Not like he and Russia in general have a history of distabilizing countries around it and then sensing in forces of "peacekeeping, stabilization," or anything like that.
Meh, the West let a bunch of ruthless Ukrainian oligarchs trick us into supporting their bid to "renegotiate" the corruption rackets in Ukraine with Putin because we had no set policy on it.
Putin saw the EU/NATO supporting a bunch of his enemies in his backyard and stepping into the most critical part of Russia's historical sphere of influence.
Imagine if some corrupt Mexican politicians mobilized big crowds in Mexico City and overthrew the government with support from China. Then America intervened. It's a lot like that. Who cares about "muh democracy muh sovereignty"
>How far are the rebs from Mariupol?
>seperatists have launched a counteroffensive on their own
>ON THEIR OWN
All of these important words. All such horseshit.
The maidanfags chased away ONE Man. A single man. The rest of their senate remained in power and a council was set up to govern in his stead.
This also doesn't exain Crimea as there were green men there since day 1.
Zaporizhia and Mykolaiv are also major potential targets for the Russians.
Zaporizhia is home to production of 90% of Russian helicopter engines and a plurality of their aircraft engines
Mykolaiv is home to a critical shipyard for the Russian defense industry, and the main export terminal for Rosobornoexport and its shell companies.
Source: I researched all this for my job
Yeah, i've seen that typo aswell, i meant OF their own.
Oof, then retaking Mauriupol will be a gargantuan victory of Donetsk and Russia. More an important target i've realized!
Mariupol is also somewhat important because it has a shipyard too, but a much less important one than Mykolaiv
It's really surprising how much of Russia's defense infrastructure is in Ukraine, leftover from Soviet times. They can't allow Ukraine to join EU, because what if one day in the future the EU gets pissed at Russia and declares defense sanctions on them, as is already being discussed? Russia would lose a large part of its defense-industrial base, and defense export infrastructure. Almost all of this stuff is located in Russia-speaking eastern Ukraine
Isn't he dismissing parliament in October and "electing" a new parliament? Just like his buddy Yushchenko from 2004-2010? Western Ukraine just traded one oligarch for another, again, and the guys in the East are sick of it.
Are you really saying that it takes more than well motivated and well equipped (from Ukrainian surplus and more than likely some Russian surplus) guerillas to route a military that is out of shape, unpaid, terribly equipped, terribly motivated, and commanded by the equivalent of junior lieutenants? Because that is not a stretch at all.
You are being willfully blind.
Then put it in the copypasta, don't pretend otherwise.
A lot of Russian equipment and trained men are coming across the border, in addition to artillery support. The weakness of Ukraine's military is immaterial to the facts.
They are most certainly activly supporting them but calling this and outright invasion is beyond retarded and from what i been trying to find out reading various news stories blogs etc nobody sems to have any clue what crosses the border at all.
I mean the ukranian goverment weekly report they have destroyed a russian collum after it crossed the border yet no evidence of that has surfaced.
I think at this point it's pretty clear that there's some Russian SF and probably some airborne infantry fighting in Donbass, and it's totally clear that Russian artillery is firing across the border to support the rebels
Personally I want the Russians to win, but let's not ignore the facts. There's been enough evidence, if you watch developments carefully.
Personally I think Russia has every right to do this, but there's no point in denying it.
I haven't even seen evidence of Russian artillery support, but then I haven't been following the developments as the sep commanders update. The US media headlines I recall seeing stated that Russian artillery was shelling Donetsk, which I immediately took to mean that Ukraine was shelling Donetsk (civilian target) for the whole mass grave propoganda shenanigans later on.
I honestly don't care for Russia and hold the opinion that the AK-47 isn't a very nice looking gun, so I'm obviously not a slavaboo
But I get beyond irritated when reputable("reputable") think tanks like the Brookings Institution keep insinuating that Putin is the aggressor without even addressing NATO's role in this mess
Speakng of beyond retarded, it's you pretending it isn't happening. Or maybe that's just you lying.
That's only one story. Plenty of heavy weapons have crossed the border. Plenty of stories if you care to search.
NATO reports artillery being fired over the border. Sat pics were shown of the firing positions.
Don't play bullshit games.
>we do not support the rebels
>we are not providing supplies to the rebels
>we are not providing weapons to the rebels
>we do not train the rebels
>we do not let the rebels launch attacks from our territory
So are all of Putin's statements proven to be lies at this point?
Don't worry, he always phrases it in such a way that he can deny anything.
>We have never supplied equipment to the people who the Kiev government call "separatists"
>There is no artillery currently being fired into Ukraine
Annexation and eastern uprising was a result of a violent revolution fueled by NATO that removed the oligarch who was more sympathetic to eastern Ukraine for one who is in the West's pocket. You are utterly deluded if you think this is nothing more than Ukraine coming together and singing "kum ba ya" over the scent of burning tires and then exercising their God given right of self determination.
No proof. Like RIDF a hills love to say show me proof.
That one video commenting on how to best turn the events in Ukraine in US's favor? Not proof that this was instigated by the us., let alone NATO. The way you speak makes it even seem like you don't know what NATO is.
There's a lot more if you care to find it.
Really, there's no shame in it, Russia has every right to use force to defend its interests in its immediate backyard against illegal coups (or just at will, if we're being realistic about geopolitics)
But there's no point in denying that they're sending small numbers of troops in and shelling across the border
>EU depends on that gas
>hey guise, let's shoot ourselves in the foot by destabilizing a region vital to us!
>moving further east
How? No talk was had about Ukraine joining NATO... but guess ? Now everyone will be scrambling to join it after seeing that Big Brother Russia loves to do.
NATO had nothing to do with it. Ukrainians are just sick of being treated like Russia's bitch. If the separatists love Russia so much they can leave Ukraine and go live in Russia. It's not like there's no room there.
>russia isn't germoney's and the EU's biggest trading partner
>this sits well with washington
>NATO isn't controlled by the US
>Late February 2014 Anders Fogh Rasmussen reaffirmed NATO membership is still an option for Ukraine
If Ukraine joined EU it would be one step away from joining NATO, and it would also put a vital part of Russia's defense industrial complex and defense export infrastructure under EU legal jurisdiction
Russia acted before things got to that point.
They're within their rights to keep dangerous enemy influence away from their borders and strategic regions.
Really, the Western Ukrainian oligarchs are at fault here. Tymoshenko, Yushchenko, Klitchko, Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko. These guys escalated the crisis because US/EU policy was confused and sluggish, they knew they had some support so they escalated the crisis to force the West to support them or look weak.
Yanukovych also acted the same way, somewhat. But mainly it was the Western oligarchs who pushed things to force the US/EU to support them
Not even the guy you are arguing with, but you are a dumbass.
>If you mean "completely ignored Russian interference and outright invasion", then yes, that's nailed.
Let me tell you about "outright invasion." Outright Invasion is what the US did to Iraq in 2003. We bombed the hell out of targets in their country with OUR planes, piloted by OUR men.
Then, we sent OUR soldiers, in OUR vehicles with OUR flags flying from them. We captured cities, and OUR soldiers declared them under OUR control. All this was done openly. You cannot hide an invasion and we didn't try to.
Now, let's compare this to your situation. Russians are not bombing your country. They may be sending supplies and vehicles, but there is no proof they have sent entire armies in. You are not anywhere close to experiencing the full power of the Russian military. Kiev can bullshit and make all the excuses they want, but the truth is that it is mostly your fellow countrymen that are kicking your ass, you are just too stupid to see that or too proud to admit it. Your armed forces are shit and you know it.
Your politicians scream MUH RUSSIANS because they cannot admit to the public how fucking incompetent and ill equipped they are; they use a Russian scapegoat to try and sweep the thousands they have killed and their dozens of failures under the rug.
>imblying im ukraaine
I really hope you are, then I could understand your ignorance of the facts with your blind patriotism. Anyone would have to be completely retarded to say Ukraine is under "outright invasion".
NATO, North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Formed as a way to unify US and western Europe military commands, with the specific goal of containing communism in Europe and stopping any aggressive military action by the Warsaw Pact in Europe. With the Warsaw Pact gone, the IS has used NATO as a tool to threaten Russia, as seen by the destabilization and division of balkan states followed by their induction into NATO. In addition, unified Germany, Poland, and the Baltic States have all been brought into NATO. The 2008 war in Georgia was fought specifically to prevent Georgia's entry into NATO.
As for NATO role in the uprising, there is a phone call tape that has been confirmed by one of the callers, the Estonian foreign minister, that states that the Maidan leaders have already selected who will make up the post-coup government, and confirms the that the Maidan snipers who western media claimed were government controlled were actually firing on both police and protesters in a false flag op. This recording is available on western, Russian, and independent news sight and is stated just after 8 minutes into the call. Add to this, the CIA currently occupies an entire floor at the top of Kiev's SBU building.
Why is America doing this? Russia is not a threat to them anymore, so why do they keep provoking them and being assholes?
>Ukraine captures Russian soldiers fighting with the separatists
>Ukraine claims to be fighting with elements of specific Russian units like the 76th air assault division
>numerous soldiers of the 76th air assault division mysteriously died very recently in "training" accidents
But Russia has none of its army in Ukraine :^)
Your guess is as good as mine. As of right now, my speculation is the clay and the natural resources contained therein. Russia does hold a vast amount of the world's natural resources. In absence of anything else, all I can say is that NATO still exists despite its reason for existence having been gone for 23 years.
>Russia is belligerent for decades to its neighbors, effectively occupying all of eastern Europe
>any time said neighbors got the radical idea of being free of Russia, the tanks rolled in
>finally Russia(USSR) collapses and its neighbors get out from under Russia's boot
>said neighbors ask for help from big strong friendly NATO to keep Russia from reasserting its boot on their neck
But Russia is the victim and America is the asshole.
Just as fair and objective as the Russian way of looking at it. World history is filled with major powers being utter cocks to each other for little or no reason at all. Nobody is innocent here.
>it is mostly your fellow countrymen that are kicking your ass
Once again, 1 Division =/= outright invasion, stop making excuses by claiming you are besieged by Russia.
That's even assuming it's a whole division over there, and not a small group of that division. Ukraine must be even more pathetic than I thought if it only takes one Russian division to fuck up their armies.
The difference being that Russia has no history of destabilizing and bombing countries two oceans and a continent away from it in addition to doing the same thing to their smaller, weaker neighbors. The US by comparison has a long track record of this. That being said, smaller nations will pretty much always be bullied by bigger nations. History has shown us that, from the dawn of civilization to modern day.
>Did I use the word outright invasion?
You defended this post
with this post
I'm not really sure how you can even try to defend your argument anymore with posts of such low quality and substance.
My grandfather is a full blooded Ukrainian from the Carpathian mountains. When I ask him about the local conflict he actually sided with the Russians which is weird because from west Ukraine.
American by the way.
>The difference being that Russia has no history of destabilizing and bombing countries two oceans and a continent away from it in addition to doing the same thing to their smaller, weaker neighbors.
I guess if we only count Russian history starting at the Russian Federation.
I do find painful irony that my country is all 'respect elected leaders' (in non-rigged elections) when it is in their favor, and all supportive of rebels chasing leaders out of the country when we don't like their policies.
Now, I'm not saying that Putin isn't gleefully taking advantage of the situation, but there was a situation there without his help.
I could have worded that better. I am not denying that Russia messes with the internal affairs of its neighbors. My point is that compared to the USA's antics past and present in the Caribbean, Central and South America, and around the globe, Russia's history of intervention is quite benign.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Bessarabia, Bukovina 1940
someone linked a couple of their VK pages in the comments as well
>if I keep saying "last time was a hoax" I do not have to acknowledge that these are Russian soldiers
Fantastic. Any outside, neutral, unbiased organizations confirming that these captives are Russian soldiers? I'm wondering because last time this happened, it turned out to be a haox.
He does have a good question, will Ukraine present these soldiers to international organizations along with their evidences?
Ukraine has been screaming about 150 tanks coming in from Russia and yet no photo/video evidence of the 150 tanks (inb4 someone posts 1 destroyed tank as evidence) and destroying a column of Russian tanks and yet still no photo/video evidence.
Other forums have already debunked the news posted because some pictures show the same guy yet tagged in different names. (Upper and Lower left of >>22541877 pic shows same guy yet Ukraine put in different names)
I'm starting to find the similarities between this latest push and the Tet offensive interesting. A worn down guerrilla movement, widely viewed to be on its last legs, lashes out with a sudden and massive counteroffensive.
Of course, that brings out the question of if this attack is sustainable. Tet virtually wiped out the VC and severely depleted the NVA in a series of ill-advised attacks against heavily fortified US/ARVN positions. The only reason it was successful is because it scared off the American public, who wasn't prepared to continue the war any longer. Ukraine has a hell of a lot more to lose in this fight, they'll be much more willing to keep going in a bad situation.
Frankly there are a lot of claims from both sides about troop movements and encirclements and losses and gains that have no evidence beyond 1 destroyed tank as evidence.
The anon who keeps saying he doubts half the claimed battles have actually taken place is probably right.
>The difference being that Russia has no history of destabilizing and bombing countries two oceans and a continent away from it in addition to doing the same thing to their smaller, weaker neighbors.
weren't around for the cold war were you
why the fuck do you think africa is such a shithole these days
That is very well written, however kinda reminds of one of late '80 Sovietology pamphlets. Listen: "USSR is big, powerful and can be reasoned with. Under Andropov/Gorbatchev leadership it is on the way to become a prospering country."
Whcih is utter bs, ussr/russia is a seeping ulcer that should be contained. Or isolated, like Reagan did. Unfortunately, European leaders have been stupid enough to make themsleves dependable on russian gas and oil.
Read better: >by comparison
The US list of dirty foreign laundry goes much longer.
First Barbary War, N. Africa 1801-1805
Second Barbary War, N. Africa 1815
Puerto Rico 1898
Dominican Republic 1905
Chile 1920-1977 (under control of US corporations or puppet leader for entirety)
Cuba (Bay of Pigs) 1958
Dominican Republic 1961
El Salvador 1980s
What's even more fun is that the USA's funding and support of extremist Islamic groups during the Cold War, and attempts to destabilize the more moderate ones, are responsible for the massive rise of Islamic terrorism and extremism that the world has seen in the 2000s. Al-Quaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, and so on were all born with the US government's blessing.
Putin was seen leading the charge into Mariupol
You don't seem to realize that the US has pulled its own shit in Africa, sometimes opposite the USSR and sometimes not. See >>22543387
No, I am including the USSR and Tsarist Russia. Tsarist imperialism ended at Alaska, Afghanistan, the Baltics, Poland, and the Ottoman Empire (though Russia likely would have taken it if they could have gotten away with it, but France and Britain refused to let another country in on their naval empires).
The USSR pre-World War II was preoccupied with regaining their buffer zpne with Europe nothing more. Post World War II, they once again regained that buffer zone with Europe as well as attempted to get the new communist regimes to form economic and political bonds with each other and essentially under Khrushchev repair the damage that Stalin had dealt to the international communist community. Interventions were undertaken in order keep the US from crushing these regimes, and to keep western influence out of the buffer zones.
Well if we are just listing everything lets not hold back.
My original point still stands. The USA has engaged in far more imperialist ventures and regime changes than any Russian state, even all of them put together. The wars the US has been forced into fighting can be counted on one hand. War of 1812, Civil War, and World War II. But, the weak nations will be bullied by the strong, and the US was lucky enough to be surroundes by mostly weak nations on its own landmass, with an ocean on each side between it and any potential competitor.
>Point out that they don't have proof about what they are saying
LIES AND SLANDER!!!
>Rebels actually provide photos and more sensible evidences to back up what they are saying
GOOD LUCK STRELKOV!!!!
>Defense Ministry: Russian servicemen accidentally crossed the stretch of the Russian-Ukrainian border
>deep into a combat zone
sep shills getting BTFO
>RIDF faces when
>Russian Defence Min source to RIA: Soldiers were part of border patrol mission, crossed the border "by accident" and were detained.
Yeah that's what the defence ministry is saying.
>Russian servicemen captured in Ukraine by mistake - Defence Ministry Source
Ukraine's security service said its military had captured the 10 Russian paratroopers near the village of Dzerkalne, about 50km (30 miles) south-east of the rebel-held city of Donetsk and about 25km from the Russian border.
How did they fuck up THAT bad?
Is there anything that russia can do right?
>Is there anything that russia can do right?
Win a war in 5 days
Annex territory with 0 casualties
The current situation in E.Ukraine is purely military forces being used for political leverage, if Putin seriously wanted an invasion he would have had it by now. Ukraine isn't Georgia, they don't have a mountain range protecting them from mass armor movement
It's not over until the last Ukrainian occupant leaves the territory of Novorossiya, duh.
Africa? Central America?
Heck, the whole point was to spread the Revolution to every country on the planet (of course, the leadership was often more interested in their dachas on the river, as seems to happen in all overly-centralized governments).
Closer to their borders, of course, they "liberated" Eastern Europe, looted it, and enslaved its peoples for 40+ years. So, it's absolutely shocking that those people and their kids want somebody to help keep them from being conquered again.
"within their rights"?
I thought that it was the right of a sovereign country itself to decide what it wants to do, and if an outside country doesn't like it, they can lump it? Russia doesn't have any more "right" to invade the Ukraine than Britain would have to invade southern Ireland.
>mountain range protecting them
Russians control Abhasia and Roki Tunnel and had no problem with deploying mass armor in Georgia.
Wasn't there some big thing about a single tunnel across the mountains which the Georgians tried to destroy and the Russians had to defend at all costs?
Either way, Ukraine is far better for tanks, it's ideal territory for mass armor maneuvers, I'm reading Manstein's memoirs right now and the guy is just completely masturbating over those steppes.
Georgian soldier here. We reached Roki tunnel with Special force units from Batumi battalion and regular army tank brigade
We tried to defend tunnel but destroying it was impossible since it was built to withstood nuclear strike
That was Roki Tunnel.
Turns out, Ivan had ample forces sitting on the tunnel for weeks in advance, and secured the south end before the Georgian army made its futile push north.
They also had that newly-built RR (for trade and tourism, you see) into Abkhazia to reinforce along that route, plus the Black Sea Fleet to take the ports and provide resupply.
Russians are cowards and liars. Here's my best example
> Georgian - Abkhazian war
> Russia sends 40 trucks of "Humanitarian aid" to city of Tkhvarcheli controlled by seps
> Doesn't let Georgian/ICRC check it
Turned out it was supply of ammunition for separatist forces. 1 month later they attacked Abkhazia capital and captured it from Georgians.
They are doing exactly same shit as in 90's , 2008 and etc now in Ukraine.
Wait, so now the story about how Georgia started the war by shelling a city and killing civilians and Russian peace-keepers alike, the story that's corroborated by the UN itself, is a lie?
Abkhazians GTFO Georgians from Abkhazia. Sounds legit for me.
Separatist forces blown up our Patrol car (Toyota) near the "Russian peacekeepers" block post at 6th august, 4 died and 1 injured.
Later 7th august they started bombing our villages from Mortars and heavy artillery, in response Georgia sent special forces unit to nearest villages and opened small arms fire, but couldn't stop them. Our BTR-80 burned
8th august , Our president warns them to stop. Shit continues.
Later at night our full scale military offensive including about 35 000 soldiers and 100 tanks started on the Tskhinval city. (100 more tanks were not used for some reason and stationed on bases)
Georgians were majority in Abkhazia and Abkhazia historically belonged to Georgia as autonomic republic/kingdom. So your agument is invalid.
Now if Ukraine BTFO's all Russian speaking people from Donbass and ethnic cleanses them, will it be right?
>Now if Ukraine BTFO's all Russian speaking people from Donbass and ethnic cleanses them, will it be right?
Apparently yes, since nobody seems to have a problem with them indiscriminately shelling Lugansk and Donetsk, with only the HRW sending Kiev letters asking them to cut that shit out
There's always shelling in war especially when separatists hide in city. There is no other way to do military operation without shelling
We shelled Tskhinval too, Russians bombed our peaceful cities too.
American colonies is a part of British empire.
Why do you faggots always insist on drawing parallels as if there's some sort of objective standard of law that applies to everyone equally? America does things it condemns others of doing because it can get away with it, ditto for Russia, ditto for every state that was powerful enough at some point in history to enforce their will.
So, what about all these large scale offensives of the separatists in the last two days??
I thought they encircled large parts of the ukrainian army and overrun their positions in the south. Also they were about to take Mariopol. I mean, look at that
Thats supposed to be the most unbiased map.
Now, there is near to nothing in any mainstream media, everyone is reporting that its the usual fighting, nothing out of the ordinay.
Did the ukrainians managed an information blackout? Did all the local journalists slept through the Tet offensive or was it all just russian bullshit and nothing of that happened in reality?
It is funny that the counter argument to Russia being a dick to all its neighbours is that the US does it as well so that makes it ok.
I wonder why Putin is all smoke and mirrors about supporting the rebels. Why not just come out and do it openly? It is fairly obvious where all these men and heavy weapons are coming from and the west has already shown it isn't interest in doing anything.
When people say that NATO has something to do with that, they are clearly delusional.
They completely disregard the bullshit that ex-president pulled for years and the fact that Yanu turn around and says FUCK EU in the last second and then proceeded banning all protests like Russia did back in the day with Putin ellections.
You also pull some weid statistical data that says that every russian speaking is for russia and every person having russian ties is for russia automatically.
Delusion. Desinformation. Chaos. Just business. RIDF!
Transcript of Interrogation of Russian Paratrooper Captured in Ukraine
Interrogator: On your page on VKontakte...There's this phrase..."I'm being sent to Rostov once again. To the war. To wipe out Maidan. I'm leaving Monday." So here it is. Is there such a phrase? Is that yours?
Milchakov: Yes, it's mine.
Interrogator: Can you provide some commentary?
Milchakov: Provide commentary? At that moment, they didn't tell us anything concrete. There were just rumors. But everyone understood...what would happen. We're going to Rostov. Since there will be training in Rostov.
Interrogator: So then what does "wiping out Maidan" have to do with that.
Milchakov: Well, sort of...it's embarrassing even to say...I just wanted to show off in front of my friends, I guess. That's why I wrote that.
Russian soldiers captured in Ukraine - THEY ARE LIEING, IT"S ALL LIEEA.
Russian ministry says they are there by acciendent - LET OUR GLORIOUS SOLDIERS TO GO, THEY DID NOTING WORNG
Russian soldiers go back from training in zinc - THEY DIED BY ACCIEDENT
Yes, very. The USSR wasnt much of an offensive force as the U.S. feared. They only wanted to secure borders for the most part. All these people who are saying Russia isn't outright invading because they havent yet are stupid and very clearly havent heard of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
I wish they would just split up the country. I'd love to see the difference between West & East in 15 years. They are going to be pretty sorry they fucked up their chances then.
At least they can squat and drink improvised vodka at their crumbling parking lots by then.
Ukrainian "army" "running" away.
>They are going to be pretty sorry they fucked up their chances then.
I'm sure they'll be able to negotiate back into Putin's custom's union when shit gets really bad, Ukraine has these policy changes all the time, they were fervently pro-EU in the 2004 revolution until corruption forced out the pro-EU government in favour of Yanuk, when the economy goes to hell again you'll see similar things happening.
And Spain had barely no force projection into them because they were fucked up in multiple ways. Much smaller armies were capable of declaring freedom on holding their ground.
Argentinian here, we practically liberated the whole continent from Argentina to Honduras... back when we were worth a shit.
The USSR invaded Afghanistan because it was another of those buffer zones Russia has historically tried to keep between itself and its western competitors. The reason for the invasion was that the US was trying to shore up a better relationship with the Communist government in Afghanistan (brought to power by revolution in 1978). To the USSR, losing leverage over a vital buffer zone was unacceptable, so they invaded to put a stop to it.
Personally, I'm tired of the double standard that any government that agrees with the US is a good guy, even such shitholes as Saudi Arabia and Israel, while any government the US doesn't like is part of the "Axis of Evil," and an exporter of extremist terrorism. Referendums held in countries the US has interests in are always fair and balanced, 100% authentic, but if the US doesn't like you then no referendum you hold can possibly be the true "will of the people" because you intentionally botched the votes.
Slavs seem to have a fixation for cheesy propaganda, its like a racial thing or something. Still, Ukrainian whores are so fuckable; I don't get many slavs in my country, but I meat one not long ago (co-worker of a friend) and she looked just like those wenches (coke addict too, just to add to the stereotype).
What are the sources for those maps and shit? And the blog of some random separatist isn't reliable source. Those maps seem to contradict everything that was previously going on with the conflict (rebels losing ground). I haven't even noticed anything about Novoazovsk and Mariupol being under attack, apart from OP's apparently not very reliable map and blog.
Unless you have something to back that up, I'm calling bullshit.
They had like 20 years of independence and never did any good, the issue there is corruption, regardless of the system you use, if there is corruption there won't be any progress.
Ukraine was very corrupted back then and it's very corrupted now.
I have a good relationship with an old lad who immigrated from Ukraine a couple of years after the fall of the URSS. He has family over there (living an hour away from kiev in some town I don't remember the name) and the vast majority of the people he and his family has contact with is pretty fed up with everything, not one side or the other, but with the whole situation; They would complain about the corrupt ex-president, the "vultures" that are now in power and even about the Russians taking advantage of the situation.
I don't think neither side would have much to boast about in 15 years.
It was few meters off from the headquarters of the self declared Lugansk republic.
Sucks for the civilians, but anyone with a healthy interest of self preservation would avoid hanging around such obvious targets.
It was back in the days when people found the idea of their own government bombing them ludicrous.
Also trying to hit single building with salvo of unguided rockets is ultra fullretard mode.
>My grandfather is a full blooded Ukrainian from the Carpathian mountains. When I ask him about the local conflict he actually sided with the Russians which is weird because from west Ukraine.
It's not that weird, a lot of the people from Carpathian regions didn't identify with the new Ukrainian identity (which really started in the late XIXth century, partly as a ploy by Austrians against the Poles and Russians), and instead chose to remain Ruthenian, as they have for hundreds of years.
History teacher here specializing in Central and Eastern Europe, I can confirm that this is true.
Eastern European nations have a bad habit of inventing the ancient qualities of their identity, Poland for example used to circlejerk about how they were descended from the Sarmatian steppe peoples from the Volga basin in the time before the hegemony of Rome, just so that they could claim as nobles to be the best people in the Commonwealth, and then to lord it over the nations trying to partition them.
What are the chances of any other eastern euro country that has a russian hate boner assisting the Ukrainians?
I remember it being said that Poland would aid them in the event of Russian aggression but everyone is oddly silent now.
That's not Bastion.
Here is what a real one looks like.
Putin doesn't want the country split up, though, because the western half would almost certainly align with NATO and Russia's precious buffer zone that they spent the last century building up would be gone
The picture from post No.22552520 shows two old GRADs in a shitty condition on URAL-4320 chassis.
There are no modernized versions present there.
Bastion uses KRAZ trucks.
Get your facts straight.
My original post said interventions, not occupations (though many of those US interventions I listed are military occupations or attempted occupations). Not my fault the one who posted the list of Russian "occupations" is illiterate.
Geopolitics man. Geopolitics and natural gas....
Looks like Ukraine has some operators.
No truths have been released about no wars that have happened after the glorified freemasonic year of 2000.
There are only folks unarmed and running yelling "please dont kill us please dont kill us" and they are yealling because the released gaseous drugs have allready made them forget who they are and that they were supposed to run or die but not plead to get to do slave work.
Then there are the drug soliders that will kill them, like happened to all meaningfull kurd populations that were unfortunate enough to exists near war zones, not so long ago, leaving maby 1 per a thousand most beautifull women alive.
Just to put some fear into freemasons it was 70% french, 20% USA and 5% Britbong and 5% others composition paratroopers that killed and swiched the Kurds and operation was based upon no air defence and the consequent ability to use only military cargo planes as transport to hide it from domestic generals.
So basically Ukraine fixed a law that barred volunteer units from having heavy weaponry.
>according to Semenchenko (Donbass Battalion leader) - everything will be ok, Ukrainian army reinforcements are on the way already. Avakov finally got this new law which allows volunteers to get heavy equipment (some corrupt generals and people in MOD refused until prime minister himself asked them to open military storages and take equipment for those battalions).
>They will receive heavy ATGM "Kornet", "SKIF", "Fagot", new RPG's, manpads, tanks, IFV's and APC's.
Think of what these guys could have done if they had T-64's and T-72's from the start.
I am wondering why the Ukrainians are doing this. You normally don't change laws to make exceptions this late in the game unless something really bad happens, like during the Civil War when slaves were getting armed by the Confederates to fight.
Does anyone know what's happening in Ukraine right now? Last news I heard, Ukraine was beating the rebels already. But that was like a month ago.
>They may be sending supplies and vehicles
Where is the evidence of this? It's based purely on conjecture, on the idea that the rebels couldn't beat the ukrainian army unless they had outside intervention.
Russia has sent aid convos, that were inspected by neutral western third parties, that cleared them as non-combatant aid, but Ukraine said they were military weaponry. Continually claim russia is interfering, but never presents a single shred of evidence. Whole thing stinks of propaganda.
I hope you guys have seen this.
Original: Colonel Cassad LiveJournal
Translated from Russian by Daniel Mihailovich and Gleb Bazov
By August 22nd, 2014 it became completely obvious that the Junta will not be able to occupy Donetsk either by August 24th, 2014 or by September 1st, 2014. The general offensive that began on July 1st, 2014, and which was intended to crush Novorossiya, has choked. The junta suffered key defeats near Shakhtersk and Krasniy Luch, when it was unable to cut off the DPR from the LPR, following which it became mired in bloody battles for Ilovaysk and Yasinovataya. At the same time, the southern battlegroup was crushed and routed in the Southern Cauldron.
2. It may still be too early to tell, but, overall, there is every indication that the army of Novorossiya is winning the strategic defensive operation. In the last several days, there has been a clear weakening of the Junta’s onslaught on the People’s Republics, as evidenced by the convulsive attempts to advance on Ilovaysk at all cost and the meandering of the semi-encircled troops to the south-west of Lugansk.
3. The fact that Yasinovataya and Ilovaysk were able to withstand the Junta’s onslaught completely derailed the announced assault on Donetsk. And the column of white trucks [Note: the Russian humanitarian aid convoy] that passed in the direction of Lugansk on August 22, 2014 vividly demonstrated that the plan of complete encirclement of Lugansk had failed and the breakthrough to Novosvetlovka and Khryashchevatoye had been pushed back. At the same time, the situation is worsening daily for the enemy troops that operated to the south-west and south of Lugansk, as the self-defense militia forces are conducting increasingly bolder and more decisive actions aimed at creatinga new cauldron, which threatens to trap various units of three separate brigades and the attached support assets. Remember that only 4-5 days ago they were shouting that they were already in the center of Lugansk, sweeping the city.
4. On the whole, the Junta’s offensive has stopped, and the front has gradually stabilized. The Militia begins to nibble on the battlefront, probing for weak points in the positions of the Junta troops in order to cut off many of the incursions in the front line. Only a lack of forces stops the Militia from going on a full-scale offensive, which for now is replaced with actions of the saboteur-reconnaisance groups (“SRG”) and the creation of tactical encirclements. Nevertheless, the overall trend favors the Militia forces, who over the last 2-3 days have been successful in their defensive battles, in inflicting serious losses on the Junta and in driving the enemy forces out of a number of settlements.
5. The Junta is facing serious problems. It is necessary to stop the offensive to replenish depleted units, move up the reserves, concentrate armor, and resume the attacks in the new operational environment. The Junta instead continues to persist in trying to advance in the framework of the already thwarted plan and with the same forces, the very forces that could not succeed even when they were still at full strength. Theoretically, the Junta’s persistent attempts to break through the wall with its head are good for the Militia, as the Junta expends a great deal of infantry and armored vehicles in these attempts to take “something, anything” – attempts which have already lost their operational significance. Daily reports from our side and tantrums from the enemy show that the Junta forces every day lose dozens (on some days – hundreds) troops dead and missing. Military hardware losses are also heavy, and the worst thing for the Junta is that some of these vehicles fall into the hands of the Militia, which then uses them against the enemy troops.
6. The balance of power is steadily getting better, and we can no longer say that the Junta has an unequivocal numerical superiority. True, its forces are still numerically superior, several to one in armor, but the situation is no longer as hopeless as it was in June and July. Especially troublesome for the Junta was the creation of the Militia artillery groups, which have been the source of major losses inflicted on the attacking army units and punitive battalions (volunteer battalions not subject to military control and made up of activists/neo-Nazis/released criminals). Moreover, these artillery fists have grown mainly due to captured Ukrainian artillery systems, and judging by the statements of Bezler, militia has even captured “Pion” (203mm self-propelled artillery) systems by now. Without overwhelming superiority in men and military hardware, the Junta’s offensives start to meet the defensive lines of militias and stop due to artillery fire, while those breakthroughs that do happen are now fairly confidently parried by the Militia’s reserves. This means that the Militia command has spare forces and knows how to use them competently.
7. Panic-driven proposals to retreat to Slavyansk and Mariupol, fortifying checkpoints in Dnepropetrovsk, the construction of fortifications in the area of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, proposals to launch the fourth wave of mobilization and the transition to replenishing depleted units with vehicles from the 60-70s are all characteristic signs that not only has the offensive failed, but that the Junta’s forces have been seriously exsanguinated and forced to maintain their combat capability through recruits of dubious quality and obsolete equipment. In this regard, it appears that despite the seemingly huge amount of military equipment that Ukraine has inherited from the Soviet Union, the battle-worthy part of that heritage is running out. Hence, Ukraine has been using old junk and working on obtaining armoured vehicles from foreign countries to fill the demand.
8. There are still serious problems with the competence of the command staff of the Junta forces. The generals in charge of the southern flank have already stuck their troops into encirclements twice, plus ground down a lot of the combat-ready units in the battles for Miusinsk, Saur-Mogila, Ilovaysk and Snezhnoe. Huge losses and modest results in the form of occupation of the southern slope of Saur-Mogila (by the way, the obelisk there fell yesterday, the soldier monument fell earlier) all resulted from disastrous decisions by the Junta’s southern battlegroup command that should be used as textbook examples to show young officers how not to fight. Take lack of talent, multiply it by the factor of political goals directing military operations – and here are the results. Previously, all the problems were ascribed to some SBU generals, which drove the three brigades of the Junta into the Southern Cauldron. They were removed. Now there is yelling about traitors in military general’s uniforms. But are there any competent generals in Ukraine at all?
9. The government troops north of Donetsk, between Gorlovka and Debaltsevo, are the only ones performing adequately in combat. It was from there that the attempts at decisive blows aimed at the dismemberment of the DPR and the LPR came from, and that is where the real threat to Novorossiya remained the longest. But there, too, junta troops bogged down in heavy fighting with the Militia’s reserves without achieving their goals. There is no need even to mention the reckless attempts to surround Lugansk while leaving the south flank open. It would be highly surprising if there will not be a new encirclement to the south-west of Lugansk within the next 1-2 weeks.
10. However, after suffering a defeat at the strategic and operational level, the Junta is trying to salvage the situation by purely tactical means. Simple frontal attacks against Ilovaisk and Yasinovataya were planned based entirely on the numerical superiority and logically led to protracted urban fighting. Naturally, a certain threat still remains, but this is probably no longer a threat to Donetsk itself, but rather to Ilovaisk and Yasinovataya. Even if the junta crushes local defense in, say, Ilovaisk, it will only get a salient in the battlefront lines touching the outskirts of Donetsk, where depleted punitive battalions will be met by a new defensive line. In general, there is no operational sense in continuing the attacks; the Junta now needs a pause for the organization of a new full-fledged offensive.
11. Nevertheless, political reasons related to the Ukrainian Independence Day holiday on August 24th, as well as the upcoming talks in Minsk, are pushing the Junta into overextending itself militarily. The idea is clear – to show the public at least some sort of peremoga (Note: Ukrainian word for victory, by now a running joke) and secure a more powerful bargaining position in Minsk. But so far it seems that by August 24th a complete peremoga over the Junta’s last offensive will be celebrated in Novorossiya, and in Minsk Poroshenko will have very little to show for the efforts of his military.
12. A slap to the face in the form of a humanitarian convoy that passed into the territory of Ukraine without his permission, and simply drove into the “surrounded and almost taken Lugansk,” shows how “in control” Poroshenko really is, and does so better than any words could. There were attempts to prevent this. It cost at least a couple hundred dead, wounded, and POWs, dozens of destroyed vehicles, loss of several planes and helicopters. And all this in vain – a reckless dash for Novosvetlovka predictably failed, although we must recognize the performance of the Junta infantry in this area. They held out about twice as long as the Militia expected. Such perseverance among the Ukrainian troops is rare these days, being the exception rather than the rule. Nevertheless, it did not seriously hinder the Militia. The route is more or less secured by now, the Junta’s military has been pushed back, and the convoy went straight to Lugansk.
13. Overall, unless there is some sort of political conspiracy, the war will continue in September with the same ferocity, and its significance will gradually move away from the question of “Will Novorossiya survive or not” to the question of “What will the borders of Novorossiya be after the war”. In general, all of our sources in Novorossiya in the last days radiate optimism, and some even euphoria. Nevertheless, it is worth remembering that the Junta, though it lost some battles, did not lose the war yet, and after pulling up new forces and regrouping, it can either carry out a new attack or begin to build a strategic defensive line to leave Novorossiya as a war-torn stub, which it would be systematically destroying with artillery. In this regard, the Militia needs not only to finally stabilize the front and hold strategic positions, but also to prepare for large-scale offensive operations to liberate Artyomovsk, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Konstantinovka and Mariupol. Already in September, these places may again be mentioned in regular military briefings, in addition to the already frequent guerrilla action reports.
14. It should be understood that if the Junta puts together another offensive battlegroup somewhere, it could easily organize a new operational crisis for the Militia. So try not to indulge in excessive euphoria, winning the battle does not mean winning the war. There is a long and bloody struggle ahead of us.
15. In general, things we are improving, the trend is favorable. And yes, thanks to those who have already started to send us the first parcels with autumn-winter uniforms. Soon those will be needed.
I never read comments on articles online, because I like to make my own personal opinion on what I've read rather than bandwagon or rather than have my day spoiled by internet idiots.
This is based entirely on Russia Today and russian media, amirite? Sounds like guide to fight ISIS mady by Fox News.
Isnt that the same guy who just completely invented amazing separatist victories out of thin air in places where not even any fighting happened in the past?
Are the russian shills really that desperate? The rebels are doing great in the last days, there should be no need for complete fantasy stories.
A completely expendable source; just like terrorists V Kontakte proile ^)
Witnessing RIDF damage control after that morons have shot down MH17 was hilarious.
>it's false account!
>it's already deleted!
>it was never there in the first place!!11!
You sure you're on the right board, buddy? Would you like to be escorted out?
I don't really know what I expected, posting that information.
Oh, right, I expected a discussion involving the use of maps and probable sources about how the war is going, not shitposting.
You're still not discussing the war, look at the map, post alternate maps, discuss strategy and tactics.
What I'm annoyed about is that people are jumping to shout RIDF instead of having a discussion.
>>tfw western / first world countries don't have IDFs
Is this supposed to be bait or something? Google operation earnest voice.
Yeah, totally "reliable" map. If the separatists were actually making that much gains they would be in Kiev in a month.
You do realize those maps are nothing more than a pro-separatist propaganda like the militarymaps site.
I'm not saying the Kiev maps are correct either, of course there is lot of "coloring" of information to suit each sides needs. But don't try to post those maps as a fact when even the sources are clearly pro-separatist.
Thats the kremlin version.
Pic related is the kiev version.
This war is the most horrible war we have probably managed to read about happen. The Russian-Georgian war and the latest Israeli-Lebanon war was more accurate in the reporting than this.
Actually, even the Syrian and Iraqi conflicts now have more accurate news regarding their developments. Whoever wins this war, we may never know what they actually did.
It's a loss for students of military history that both sides just can't stop lying.
And thats one of more unbiased ones by FPWatcher, who does make daily update.
>Fierce fighting occurred in Khryashchuvate. Khryashchuvate is on the southern fringe of Luhansk, northeast of Novosvitlivka.
>Fighting occurred in Olenivka south of Donetsk. Russian media reported rebels briefly took control of the town before retreating.
>Kuteynikove: According to a Ukrainian military leader, rebels were near the towns of Kuteynikove and Starobesheve. Later the same commander announced that despite success in the town Ilovaisk was surrounded. In other posts, the commander suggests rebel assaults came from the direction of Mospyne. The ATO reported fighting in the town of Kuteynikove today, and late rebel reports suggested that the town was captured. Given that Ilovaisk is cut off in some way, it is most likely in Kuteynikove. This was the main road in and out of the area that was under control by Ukrainian forces.
>According to rebel and some Ukrainian sources, Starobesheve appears to have been captured by rebel forces. It’s likely that this movement came from the East, as rebels were known to have control of the road between Starobesheve and Kuteynikove in the West. The situation around Novyi Svit is rather unclear as theres been no reports of rebel movement around this town.
>Telmanove: No new updates from this area, I’ve marked this unclear as the evidence that it was in rebel hands yesterday was very slim, it was a close call, but nothing to really back it up at this point. New old information: A Reuters employee traveled through Telmanove twice on Sunday, each time finding no evidence of rebel presence.
There aren't really gains, man, read the article. Definitely they're not blitzing to Kiev, that's really hyperbole on your part. They're capitalizing on having rekt the last giant wave of Ukrainian troops. It sounds like they're expecting to get stuck at Mariupol and have to weather more offensives from fresh Ukrainian divisions soon.
The source may be from pro-sep sources but do they sound unrealistic?
Well, a week ago the situation was completely different, back then, it seemed realy like the seperatists were only weeks at best from being defeated thanks to the massive general offensive of the Ukrainian army.
So you have to expect people being very sceptical about the whole situation changing in favour of the seperatist forces.
The enemy is nowhere near Donetsk, yesterday we killed 300000 neo nazi maiden fascist mercenaries. They are on the move, they are fleeing. They pushed their units into Donetsk airport for propaganda purposes but now they flew away like rats. NAF is at sea, hohol fleeing only a matter of time before they are drilled. Shock and awe. The glorious DNR shall prevail. 40 Army groups of Hohols killed in last month, 6 million dead fascists. Russia is only sending humanitarian aid.
There's something to be said for not advancing beyond your supply lines, which Kiev most likely is from the Separatists' perspective. It's far easier to advance only as much as you need in order to encircle and destroy an attacking force when you don't have a modern army's logistic capacity.
IIRC the US thought it was fighting a limited war, so they'd bomb North Vietnam and then ask the North Vietnam government to say "Uncle." North Vietnam never had any intention of stopping their war against the south, and laughed at the Americans giving them respites.
I realize that corruption is signature trait of Russian, and thereby Ukrainian and other offshoots of Russian culture. That being said, after 23 years of corrupt oligarchs and businessmen being in power and enriching themselves off the country's resources while the infrastructure, economy, and military fall to shambles of their former selves, you'd think they would have learned not to just change an eastern-friendly one for a western-friendly one. They all say online that they're tired of it, but they refuse to clean their own house. That's a big part of what's led to this civil war, with both sides thinking their oligarch is there for them when he's really there for himself. The American people could learn something from this if they paid any attention.
As far as a partition, that's probably the second to last thing Russia wants, especially if Poland, a NATO member state, gets western Ukraine. The last thing would be losing Ukraine entirely. Russia may have to settle for a little of something rather than nothing at all though.
Poland actually has had a lot of influence on western Ukraine. Most of Ukraine was controlled by the Golden Horde or Poland depending on the time period, from around the 13th century up until the 17th century.