>>22359388 What about a weapon system that eliminates most or all of the issues that the M4 suffers from? As our current weapons get older and require replacement we could just slowly replace them with another platform.
>>22359442 5.56 is a small round that does not stop as quickly as larger calibers. Something like 6.5 Grendel is more effective and has a larger effective range. The US just spent 1 billion on russian helicopters for Afghanistan, I don't see why purchasing a new weapons platform would be an issue of cost.
>>22359563 And why not switch to a better system? The military spends far more money on other things so it's not an issue of cost. There are many issues with the M4/M16 platform. It is unreliable and lacks range, barrier penetration and stopping power. Why on earth would we continue to use it for another 50 years when there are superior alternatives out there? A piston driven system chambered in 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC would alleviate these issues.
>>22359433 Maybe but people are stubborn. Cost of training trainers, soldiers, armorers, etc. The gun would also have to be cheap. FN won the latest contract to produce the M4A1 and is making them for about $642 per rifle. http://www.guns.com/2013/02/26/fn-lands-army-m4-contract-underbids-colt-remington/
I could see some sort of rocket-assisted bullets or something special like that, mainly for defeating body armor. Since more and more foreign militaries are equipping their troops with body armor, even the shitty poorly funded guys are getting it now. Obviously it'd be hard for a man to lay down accurate fire with a .50+ caliber type rifle to defeat body armor, so you take something around the size of 5.56 and once it gets 15 or 20 feet away from the weapon a rocket motor kicks on and it is moving so fast it can penetrate any sort of armor a man would be able to wear.
Even if you look at the old-school M16A2's that still float around the military for training purposes and what not. They were made by FN, and you can definitely tell the quality of craftsmanship in them versus the modern Colt M4's.
>>22359798 >scar >ar18 based I was fucking waiting for somebody to say this. The SCAR is very different from the AR-18. Tiny tappet vs large piston, carrier guide rails vs riding on flat metal, extruded aluminum vs stamped steel. The only thing really similar is the bolt face and cam.
>>22359162 >Unsheathed knife in webbing >mfw tanto knife >literally least useful shape for anything >no quillions / handguard >low quality handle >taped magazines >VFG >M4 >Not a bullpup >shotgun shells on arm >belts and straps fucking everywhere
I don't think this guy understands military equipment beyond 'tacticool'. Drawn well enough tough, shame its by an autist.
When I think 'futuristic soldier' I actually get reminded of the 'Muscle' sneaking suit from MGS4.
Basic ballistic protection, ergonomic, and beneficial to the soldier. Obviously an actual camo pattern and not optical camo is more realistic, but I think this is the most realistic and useful 'future soldier' battle dress i've seen so far.
It isn't heavy, and isn't mechanical, so it won't fuck up and be potentially hazardous dead weight for you to drown in when you get shot.
>>22360463 >Assuming it will ever be 'Ethical' to 'slaughter' humans with robots
The military gets enough flak for "fighting other peoples wars" and Killing "innocent" people who just happen to have radical religious beliefs.
The LAST thing they want to do is pull an OZ-tier stunt like sending drones to kill humans.
It is more likely than not 'Robots' will see combat, but it will only ever be in a support role, with the exception being the distant future, where W-Y Synthetics get sent on covert operations to collecty xeno samples.
More likely than not, human 'augmentation'/ 'cyberization' will be more popular post intelligence explosion than the alternatives, although it will definitely be subject to much debate.
And there will be many a soccermom screaming 'Say NO to implants cuz mah chillens!'
I really hope humanity gets it's shit straight soon, civilians are becoming really fucking retarded.
>>22361018 Everything about that picture is wrong. >no spare ammo >no gear whatsoever >spider tank uses wheels and legs have 1 joint >bright blue >no seat, would fall off easily >spider tank looks like it was engineered buy fucking teletubbies. >purple mullet 0/10 would not operate with
Probably something like this. Maybe a powered exoskeleton on the legs for increased load bearing ability, but I doubt by then we will have a material light and strong enough to be a viable full facial helmet.
>>22361106 What about a facemask made out of kevlar or some composite supported by the exoskeleton? Wouldn't add much weight but would stop shrapnel and small pistol rounds. Add external cameras and a google glass/oculus rift type thing and you have a full face helmet with a hud. It's not the best solution but it's better than being blinded by shrapnel. Figure out energy shields and ammo counters >we halo now
>>22360891 I can imagine future sneaking suits made from large flexible LCD panels. The "pixels" can be large irregular shapes. In a very simple camo system each section would only need to switch between two colors. "On" would be one color scheme and "off" would be another. If you use a regular RGB LCD then you can adjust to any color and you can lighten/darken sections to match or counteract shadows.
>>22361148 >still carrying inadequate combat load >haircut still looks like shit >spider "tank" still looks like a mix between a spider and the noo noo from teletubbies >spider tank is not a tank >spider tank and "the major" look less fearsome than a roomba with a knife on it >>22361018 >implying eggroll empire could ever take on Russia and South America Weeaboos pls go shit up some other thread
>>22360111 But the AR-18 uses a 3-piece piston made of a tappet cup in front, a connecting bar, and a spring rod striking the BCG. Additionally the AR-18 has dual guide rods for the CG and extra mass above the actual bolt to raise the center of mass and reduce tilt. You really can't beat Stoner by piling on flashy cheese grater hand guards.
>>22361433 Like with pistol calibers the minute differences in diameter between different rounds of the same power class usually don't confer a significant difference in performance. There are exceptions but an intermediate round with a well designed bullet will be able to perform perfectly well against armored and soft targets at ranges from 0-600 yards depending on the skill of the shooter.
Stop bickering about how bullet X is so much better than bullet Y because bullet X is 1mm longer and .0001 slimmer.
>>22361231 LCD can be made flexible but it doesn't flex quite as well as OLEDs. The difficult part is keeping the two layers of the LCD aligned as it flexes. I wouldn't use an LED for camo, it would light up the area. OLED screens are only more efficient compared to a backlit LCD. An LCD for camo would have no lighting or have passive lighting. The LCD would also be e-ink style, only using power when the suit switches.
>>22359025 >What do you guys think infantry will look like 50-100 years from now? Don't know, but if we're talking about the US military they couldn't possibly look any worse than they already have for the past decade or so.
>LOL LAYING DOWN >Most people in the world are right handed, Lefties benefit nothing from constantly taking brass to the face. >God forbid something go wrong in the trigger mech. like the damn Trigger bar Breaking, then LOL NO WORKING GUN AND dont know what happened
>>22361675 >terribad triggers Maybe on some bubba sks conversion, besides it's not like the M4 has a good trigger. >exploding chamber right next to your face Unless you're shooting overpressure rounds or the gun is made by high point this isn't an issue
>>22359095 people mock this design a lot but if I was facing attack from nuclear weapons I would feel more than comfortable wearing it (minus the explosive trench digger that is the most retarded unnecessary piece of kit ever conceived)
>>22361720 > besides it's not like the M4 has a good trigger But its most definitely miles ahead of a fucking bullpup.
>>22361716 >Ever used a Tavor Timney trigger? Nnnngg Yes, because everyone can buy a 2000 dollar rifle then pay even more to have to upgrade the trigger. If im paying 2k, it better already have a good trigger, and bullpups dont.
>>22361675 >Terribad triggers Depends on the design. Put the sear near the trigger, like the RFB, and it's good. >Exploding chambers next to your face True. >Don't fix any problems It's smaller. This is the main point. Even countries with bullpups try to make it smaller by making short barrel versions. It's a big deal to them. It's better balanced, making it easier to carry.
>>22361708 >>LOL LAYING DOWN Turn it sideways a bit. The mag sticks out as much as a traditional layout anyway. >Most people in the world are right handed We're talking about the future in this thread so make it ambi. >God forbid something go wrong in the trigger mech Nigger it's a fucking solid bar. It doesn't magically snap. It's not any more fragile than a regular trigger.
>>22361760 Because they're so stupid theres nothing to refute. Just using the Tavor for example, the trigger isn't half bad stock(and it's not a $2000 rifle, it's $1400 TOPS, usually less.) Considering it's still a new technology, the fact that upgraded bullpup triggers are just as good if not better than stock AR15 triggers says something.
What exploding chambers? Well made rifles aren't going to blow up. Hell, even shitty rifles don't blow up catastrophically, whether or not it's near your face.
Pros of the bullpup - more barrel in a smaller package, the weight is balanced wonderfully- shouldering a Tavor or even an RFB is so amazingly balanced, you feel like you're holding a rifle much lighter than it is. It makes it easier to swing around, too.
lefty shooters- the Tavor can be adjusted in like three minutes to eject out of the left side. RFBs, F2000s, and P90s eject forward or down, eliminating the issue altogether.
Laying down- you have to lay prone a little bit differently, but it can definitely be done, it just takes adjustment.
>>22361871 I can't comprehend why people still use the "hurr durr trigger sucks hurr durr brass in face dduuuuur exploding chambers" argument, it may have been valid a decade or two ago, but new designs eliminate these problems entirely.
>>22361996 They are far less reliable than other weapons systems out there. 5.56 fails to take down enemies as fast as other calibers, sucks at penetrating barriers, and is ineffective at longer ranges.
>>22361976 Idk whats wrong with all these places, but gunbroker is always high. I've seen four Tavors in local shops- one is 1200, another is 1200 used, the third is from 1600(the most expensive range in town), and the last is 1400. These are all retail prices too. Shop better, faggot.
One source that's gunbroker, and always high as shit, and two other sources, one of them the manufacturers website. Not a great sample range. Next time I'm at one of my LGSs, I'll get a picture of the price tag for you.
>>22361675 >Terribad triggers This isn't a bullpup problem, this is a QUALITY problem, extending the levers in a trigger should only theoretically result in a VERY SLIGHTLY heavier pull. >Don't fix any problems Longer barrels isn't a plus to you? Integrated stocks to design? Instead a piece of plastic with nothing in it the trigger mech is a few inches rearwards >exploding chambers next to your face Are you really this retarded? The several inches closer to your face won't make a significant difference if you don't suddenly start aiming like a spastic, but the few extra barrel inches WILL make a difference to velocity.
None of your 'flaws' are bullpup specific, you just a hater.
>>22361873 >Visible gases exiting muzzle >"Isn't that a whole bullet being ejected?"
Think about it.
This isn't some bad video game dev, its the Army, even if "Hurr durr its a shoop" they wouldn't miss a detail as fucking retarded, even the signals guys they have fucking around with Photoshop went through 1RTB
>>22362289 It ejects spent brass just like the F2000 from what I remember, also, it being ugly and weird was the only reason it wasn't picked, It was actually a damn good rifle from everything known about it.
>>22362328 >not wanting to become a 10,000 year old war crazed dreadnought >suffer through the glorious madness of living 99 lifetimes longer than you should, till all you have the capacity to remember is war I'm normal
>>22361062 >almost realistic/10 could be fielded nowadays, but chemical/biological hazards have NEVER been a viable threat or issue on the modern battlefield and our soldiers already discard half of their IBA because it's as heavy as they are stupid.
>>22362471 >Not being top of your class through junior academy >Not volunteering for the interior guard while underage >Not training specifically for the trials in the service >Not earning your scout armour at 25 >Not having lived more life in war than civilization at 40 >Not earning your terminator armour within your first century >Being this much of a pleb
>>22362793 >having a penis >having real drugs and sexual stimulation >being functionally immortal, thanks to your drastically extended lifespan and ability to clone and replace new organs, stem cells, and neural tissue
>>22362823 >getting sick >dying >stem cells and new organs doesn't mean shit if you get really fucked up. >mfw I die and reboot in a new body >mfw poor fags jelly they can't afford uploading and augmentations
>>22361564 There is nothing wrong with a headshot. If you have a scope and you're close enough go for it. Through the brain or through the neck is a much quicker death than slowly bleeding out through the lungs and heart, there's no chance of ruptured GI organs, and no meat is ruined. There's a reason slaughter houses shoot livestock in the head with a bolt gun, shooting through the heart means a long, drawn out death and tons of coughed up blood as the animal simultaneously bleeds out and drowns in its own blood.
You won't have a mountable trophy but I don't believe in keeping trophies anyway. Other people will tell you it's cruel but the truth is most of them either just don't have the stomach for gore or they're terrible fudd shots.
And if you really need a trophy you'll still have other parts to work with. You just need to get a little creative.
the suggestion that we'll totally replace human beings with robots is an absurd fantasy thought up by people who want the war but not the death that comes with it.
sorry, but war is meaningless unless people die. legions of machines blasting each other to bits isn't war, it's just the prelude to the real conflict, which must always involve human beings - otherwise ,what the hell is the point? if nobody dies when you go to war, who gives a shit? nothing changes. nobody is inconvenienced.
thinking you can have war without the people is like thinking you can have sex without a partner.
>>22362972 Are you autistic? What do you think people will do? >guys lets just get rid of these robots war is pointless now >humans go out to fight >enemy still using robots >humans get absolutely raped What really would happen would be >Our robots beat theirs >Our robots burn their cities to the ground
well in the Finnish army they sometimes use a small EFP to blast a hole in frozen ground that would be too hard to dig otherwise. After that you add another explosive (a small block of TNT) to make an instant foxhole for today's rotund ugric warriors.
The gist is to start it off quick and use the extra time to work on it some more. When I was in I got to use 'em, but no vids though since I'm a poorfaq :( they're not as loud as you'd think
Humans have no place on the battlefield of the future. Power armor will not be utilized beyond experimental use. Exoskeletons will not be used beyond experimental use.
we have almost reached what could be considered the highest point of technological advancement for Infantry units.
The human body is frail and weak. it is not a purpose built machine for war. we have adapted it to suit our needs of course, but what more use will there be in sacks of meat which are so easily broke and killed? what use can there be in slow lumbering targets, bumbling about on a battlefield they cannot comprehend?
The future is drones my friends, the future is purpose built machines birthed from fire and electricity to kill with great efficiency and zero remorse.
Your "power armor" is a futile attempt to keep up with these deadly machines. all those resources spent on pointless systems such as eating, sleeping, and overall biological living. Once the operator dies, what then? do you add in a system where the suit takes over....like a drone? then what need is there for an operator to begin with? if you don't have an operator and its just a drone why make it in such an inefficient bipedal design?
for your power suit I can make you a squad of drones, each one capable of feats no human would ever be capable of. speed, accuracy, precision, and the processing power of the most capable computers. Your power suits are simply toys.
The insectoid form seems almost perfectly suited for warfare. and why not? is not the world of insects one consistent with a constant state of war and striving for survival? The future of warfare is filled with nightmarish creatures of metal and electricity.
you do not belong on the battlefield with these masters of warfare.
>>22363277 >Mechatronic Engineering PHD here (ie: robotics)
Your qualifications are admirable. But we're on the internet.
>The human body is frail and weak. it is not a purpose built machine for war. we have adapted it to suit our needs of course, but what more use will there be in sacks of meat which are so easily broke and killed? what use can there be in slow lumbering targets, bumbling about on a battlefield they cannot comprehend?
>The future is drones my friends, the future is purpose built machines birthed from fire and electricity to kill with great efficiency and zero remorse. >Zero remorse
War is more than a simple act of killing. It is diplomacy. How can a machine replace a diplomat? The modern soldier is not simply a soldier, he/she is a representative of the country, its ideals and beliefs that accompany him/her. Machines cannot fully replace this last faucet of warfare.
>Your qualifications are admirable. But we're on the internet.
fair enough believe what you will
>How can a machine replace a diplomat?
I in no way said that humans would stop having a hand in war and its business, I simply stated that humans have no place on a Battlefield. Diplomacy and politics will still be very much a thing.
>The modern soldier is not simply a soldier, he/she is a representative of the country. >its ideals and beliefs that accompany him/her. >Machines cannot fully replace this last faucet of warfare.
Who's to say that these machines cannot fulfill a similar role? stick an American flag on a drone, and instantly, whatever that drone does will be considered an action of America the nation.
But you bring up a good point. Its something that has kept me up some late nights. what if the drone had no clear markings of origin or owner. could this be the beginnings of some sort of proxy wars? could nations war and kill without political backlash simply because noone can know who to blame?
>>22363320 >War is more than a simple act of killing. It is diplomacy. How can a machine replace a diplomat? The modern soldier is not simply a soldier, he/she is a representative of the country, its ideals and beliefs that accompany him/her. Machines cannot fully replace this last faucet of warfare.
>Machines cannot fully replace this last faucet of warfare.
>>22363277 For being so frail and weak, we seem to do pretty well against EMPs and other forms of electronic warfare. Until you can kill someone by holding a magnet up to their head, humans aren't going to completely exit the battlefield.
>>22362659 Lool`s like your version is incorrect. Loot at the freaking gun. There is simply no place for upper ejector tube. additionaly, how can there be no "reliability problems" if it packs so much precision mechanics inside?
>>22364650 There are different variants of the TKB-022 you doofus.
Does THAT look like it ejects from the bottom?
also, it's not that hugely complicated, it's just weird, it outperformed the AK-74 in every way in testing, the only legitimate doubts that were had about the design was whether the bakelite was sturdy enough to make up the stock of a rifle or not.
>>22364690 >>22364705 Also worth noting the original version of the TKB-022 was chambered in the 5.6x39 experimental round, it was the only military rifle to take that cartridge, that cartridge would later develop into 5.45x39.
>>22361299 In GITS Japan was the nation to invent radiation scrubber technology, making them the first to rebuild from the nuclear war. They eventually sold the technology elsewhere pumping huge amounts of money into their economy. America also split into three, EU, Russia and China got very badly nuked. Not to mention they fought another world war after that.
>>22364650 It's not precision, and not really complex. The main differences between it and traditional rifles is that the 022PM separates the bolt face from the locking mech and that the 022PM uses that static ramp to lift cases into the ejection tube. That ramp is a lot simpler than the F2000's stupid mechanism.
The president/CEO of Boston did a very restricted presentation for people in the field showing what they've got done behind the scenes and so on. He said that they were going to show some of the footage off in a few months. Then not more than a week later Google snatches them up out of thin air.
Dollars to donuts someone from Google was there saw what Boston was keeping quiet.
>>22363277 You sound like some combo of Thomas Friedman (hint he has no brain or soul) and some futurist-autist giving a TED talk. War is a dialectic, nerd. What happens when we can just either selectively target or completely saturate battlespace with all sorts of bad radiation for a machine? What about jamming suites that already exist, that effectively kill the ability for these machines to coordinate?
To your point about power armor, lets look at the counter factual...what happens when the machine cant coordinate, or if the machine dies? All combat power is lost.
Above all nerd, Dead Carl still rules the day. Whatever machines might come old Carl Von Claus' still knows the game.
50 years ago infantry wore helmets and boots and camo, carried semi-auto rifles.
50 years after that, today, they wear helmets that look pretty much the same, just with better materials, they wear some body armor, and they carry select fire rifles.
50 years from now, they will probably wear helmets that look pretty much the same just with some fancy gadgets, they will wear body armor, but again probably better materials, and they will carry select-fire rifles.
Technology advances fast, but not THAT fast in this case. Until we develop railguns and energy weapons that are man-portable, or energy shields, then they won't change much.
>>22362659 So if we roughly understand the idea behind the TKB-022 and it is relatively simple, why hasn't anyone tried to make one yet? It is basically the ultimate bullpup design in terms of length savings and still manages to have a frontal ejection system. It would be something worthwhile to pursue.
I love how like every fucking "future concept" includes a fucking face mask.
Face masks are retarded and you shouldn't use one unless you have to here's a couple reasons why.
1) They're heavy as fuck. that's a bunch of weight that doesn't need to be there. Helmets are primarily there to protect you from shrapnel from air bursting artillery a situation where the head was struck a disproportionately large amount of the time and it was both necessary and prudent to armor the head. Added weight for a small benefit.
2) It is almost fucking impossible to get a good cheek weld with a face mask.
3) Psychologically speaking it dehumanizes you. It makes it easier for the enemy to kill you if they don't have to look at your face.
>>22361729 >facing nuclear weapons >molded rubber gloves >nylon vest >comfortable I'm not sure having my clothing melt instantly and become one with the top inch of my flesh is my idea of comfortable. A white snuggy would probably give you more protection.
>>22361048 No one's going to give a fuck about a bunch of ragheads getting killed by robots as long as their kids don't come home in body bags.
Surprisingly, it's better for the hajis, too. Think about it: a robot doesn't get bored, doesn't need to fuck. It doesn't sleep or eat bad meat and get distracted not trying to shit itself. A robot doesn't care about race, a robot isn't worried if the kid on the corner is a lookout for insurgents or a suicide bomber. A robot doesn't come to despise the country and people around it.
Sure, a robot can be killed, but it is in the end just a robot. We can build another. And Americans despite all their whinging and gnashing of teeth show no real urge to cut their tremendous military budget any time soon.
Imagine a future where an Iraq or an A-stan could be occupied with no cases of people cutting up the locals for trophies, raping little kids, whatever. A world where civilian casualties are reduced and when they do happen, the robots don't feel remorse. Insurgencies function on provocation. You can't provoke a robot or a drone.
>>22367294 This. From the dawn of man to the middle ages we went from wood clubs and spears to maces, metal tipped spears and bows. in the last 500-600 years we've gone from swords and crossbows to airburst grenade launchers, trackingpoint rifles, and automatic weapons.
>>22370009 >Heavy They'll most likely be made from lighter materials. Having your face protected from bullets and shrapnel is worth an extra 2-3 pounds >Cheek weld impossible HUD or modify gun to allow for cheek weld >Easier to kill you if they dont have to look at your face I'd argue you're more likely to die from shrapnel or a bullet to the face than you are from muhammad having a half second less hesitation when he pulls the trigger
There are guys who spend entire days with fucking dirtbike helmets mounted to their heads, and 2-3 Go-Pros along with a fucking pole of some sort for dynamic cinematography who do so without worry for neck injury.
Your shit is ignorant and short sighted, also. Muhammed doesn't fucking hesitate, and many soldiers would probably prefer to survive a shrapnel or bullet impact, rather then the empathetic effect the human face (should have) on another combatant.
>>22361675 >Exploding chambers next to your face Explosions aren't magic. They take the path of least resistance. All they need to do is make sure the top and sides of the chamber are overbuilt and the bottom of the chamber meets specs.
>>22370126 >future >all clothes, weaponry, anything is gone Nigga what? Why would we be using animal skin and bows? Do you think some aliens are gonna come along, take every manmade thing in existence, remove all of our knowledge of technology, and leave us? Half of /k/ could build an SMG out of an old car. There's clothes everywhere. Society would rebuild once somebody creates a large enough group and gains power. Shit ain't ever gonna go back to the paleolithic days, we know how to make shit.
>>22361720 Squib rounds/obstructions happen in combat. But it's still not really an issue because all they need to do is account for that in the design. It has to fail somewhere, so make it fail in a safe direction.
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