So I'm pretty unhappy with the fact that there's no go-to Touhou game for people to play.
The shooters are too cutthroat for the ordinary gamer, and both danmaku and fighters are obscure genres in general.
There are a ton of fangames, and a lot of them are cute, but not really remarkable. Most are just Touhou remakes of a previously conceived idea.
I was at the Conmeido panel at Otakon 2015, and they spent a good deal of the time advertising Lost Sky. I'm not badmouthing the game, the devs are making great progress. But I'm just not comfortable with it being our poster child.
We need a better game, and I'm willing to put a lot of my time towards something like this. As a director, my standards are pretty high. As a developer, I've got about eight years of experience behind my back. I also have some amateur music production skills. Of course, I'm not planning on doing something like this alone.
So, what genre might suit the distinct characters and the setting of Gensokyo?
What unique mechanics might make it special or interesting?
Should the main focus be on gameplay elements or storytelling?
Finally, what kind of resources might a game like this take?
Discuss what such a game might look like. A game that you'd be proud to point to when asked about Touhou.
Are you retarded?
The only canon games are the STGs, and the fighting games to a lesser extent.
Do retards like you complain that theres no easy-mode way to get into say.. Final Fantasy without sitting through 500 hours of grinding?
Play it or fuck off.
>fighters are obscure genres in general.
What's more popular, other than FPS, MoBA, and maybe sports + mobile games?
>A game that you'd be proud to point to when asked about Touhou.
Most integrally numbered Touhou games.
That said, all autism aside, I wouldn't mind helping develop (or theorycraft spam) a Touhou fangame.
I hope this is shitposting but the Otakon weebs are just that retarded so I guess you're serious.
>What's more popular
By fighters I mean things like Soku. Smash is popular, but that's an exception.
>Most integrally numbered Touhou games.
As I said, too cutthroat for the average gamer.
>As I said, too cutthroat for the average gamer.
I don't actually care about the average gamer.
If you truly insisted on appealing to one, there might the possibility for a hybrid MoBA / danmaku that plays to the strength of Touhou, but it would take something special to make sure it doesn't just end up a shitty version of either.
Or you can just give up and play Defense of the Shrines like everyone else.
Why should the average gamer be appealed to? Is the average gamer not a piece of shit? Are all self-identified gamers not pieces of shit? I think something like Undertale is just perfect; Touhou has no need to reach anyone it already hasn't.
Why would we even want that? A more casual big 2hu game will just give us more retarded fans.
Look at Undertale, very easy to get into and has an absolute retarded fanbase.
If you want to make a game, just make an original danmaku game, because /jp/ always claims they could do a better STG than 2hu.
theres literally no way to give touhou mainsteam appeal without murdering the franchise.
Fighting games are the only thing I could ever see the series turning into since theres already a basis for it but fighting games are not mainstream. And honestly I don't trust anybody to give the game good mechanics as a fighting game. All the official ones are pretty shit and people only play them because of touhou. Imagine how shitty the community would be for a big touhou fighter, it would be worse than smash.
I would never want to show up to any events because it would be a bunch of fucking nerds spouting memes everywhere. The touhou games are fine as they are. None of the secondaries even play the games anyway so I don't see why we would want to reach out to them so they can meme us with their head canon.
This sounds interesting. It's closer to what I had in mind.
I don't agree with the premise of the question, but for the sake of answering and not arguing my answer would, broadly, be a top down action rpg.
Such a game could be modeled after any number of games: Zelda, Soul Blazer, Ys, Final Fantasy Adventure/Seiken Densetu games.
The reasoning is that it is hard to make a good 3d game with a fan project's money/resources. The top down action rpg genre is just the most interesting one to me, and I don't feel there are enough good ones. The genre has almost entirely been replaced by 3d action rgps and top down 'mouse driven' style rpgs.
Also, I think a game with 'persistent world' and roaming exploration is probably far easier to interest a non-fan to try and play. In contrast, an arcade style game like a traditional platformer seems easier to dismiss thinking "I'm not missing out on much".
Good points. I enjoyed Zenonia back when it was a thing.
A friend of mine also suggested doing a Terraria/Risk of Rain style platformer simply because of the low resource requirement.
It was my understanding that ZUN created Touhou because no one was making a bullet-hell that was hard enough for him to enjoy, so he started making his own.
An easier/accessible Touhou game would go counter to that, I would think.
Touhou is my last bastion of franchises that hasn't been ruined by casualization, censorship, or incompetent developer(s).
Please don't take this away from me.
I'd imagine it being just what you'd expect, actually I think it could be really cool. Fairies and shit for minions ofc, each player has a boss healthpool though; bullets aren't oneshots.
The main difference is that most characters would be primarily ranged, although you could easily justify at least one close-range ability/auto-attack for most characters. Some such as Youmu would be primarily melee-range though.
I think a key difference would be that since most abilities would shoot bullet patterns, the higher-level play would not rely on the offensive player hitting their skillshots, but more on the defensive player's ability to dodge the bullets. And that's where the teamwork comes in: combining your abilities in order to wall in an opponent and kill them.
There's plenty they could do for abilities too, they could just be 4 static abilities like other MOBAs, or it could take notes from the Touhou fighters' use of spell cards for special attacks. Rather than making cards appear randomly for characters though, have players buy Spell Cards for abilities rather than items, but you can buy/sell Cards later into the game to always have an element of surprise. Make the costs increase a lot though as the match goes on, so an enemy isn't popping out of a bush every 2 minutes with an entirely different set of Spellcards every time.
Each character would have their own pool of available spell cards though, just like the 2hu Fighters, with possibly some generic overlapping spell cards.
And have different maps themed differently with different mechanics like HotS, because LoL's one single map for its primary game type is bland, and there's tons of fun ways to spice up Touhou-themed maps.
Defense of the Shrines is an actual thing, you know
It doesn't focus on the danmaku angle enough I don't think, but it's still pretty fun
This is going to sound really stupid, but what about something like left-for-dead or Vermintide only... comfy.
What I mean is that players will choose the 2hu they want to play as, of course each one has different abilities and stats and stuff, and then they go into this hoard survival game where they need to defend themselves against the horrors of Gensokyo (so fairies I guess rather than zombies).
But the idea is that instead of rushing from area to area, you need to be very survival conscious while in the map. You need to take out your enemies using smart synergies between your characters. But of course over the course of things you'll get worn down by the enemies and stuff. So you'll need to rest and heal and scavange supplies and whatnot to persist in the map as long as possible.
Basically what I'm thinking of is almost like a game where you're put into an instance, given an objective that will, in theory, take multiple (in game) days to complete, and then you have, in addition to playing a horde game, play a bit of a comfy survival game to make sure you can last long enough to complete the objective.
You could base each map around an incident even so there's sort of like progression to each map as the time goes by.
>On an anonymous imageboard such as 4chan, it is much harder to find collaborators.
There is a fanmade /vp/ game that is over 1 year old, with hundreds of complete Fakemon and a functioning game in the works. Plus, only the OP and few others tripfag.
OP here. I think I've put too much emphasis on the casualization deal. Let's forget about that.
>you come off as an ideas guy
Maybe. I have high standards. I've seen too many games where people ship things that were placeholders for complete features simply because they were "good enough." And I would never allow myself to release something with poor UI/UX or terribly unoptimized code.
I don't envision myself actually managing people any more than necessary. I'm more comfortable with writing code than anything else.
>you claim to have skills yet you don't post any proof to back it up
Those are my skills, I was only putting them there for some context.
>I don't see you actually reaching out for collaborators
I'd love for it to reach that stage. I wasn't sure if anyone was even interested in the first place.
I didn't mean for it to come off that way. I wanted to make a Touhou game that would reinforce the fandom. After all, the beauty of doujin works is that people put enormous amounts of effort into something that they'll give away for free (or at a price that doesn't even remotely break even), just to express their passion for the franchise.
This describes how I feel.
The point of doujin games is "I'm a nobody with some free time so I dick around realizing something I personally find fun, if my product flops who cares since I made it for myself in the first place".
If you want something that suits your make one yourself, it's just that easy.
If you look at the doujin circles with talented musicians and artists that put stuff out year after year, that's probably not the case.
What you say does apply to games, however, which is something that should be fixed.
>What you say does apply to games, however, which is something that should be fixed.
Why? Why is that a problem? Why should doujin developers cater to fanbases and make money instead of working for their own fun?
If you want to play /biz/ stay in the indie game world with all that scamstarter crap.
>Why should doujin developers cater to fanbases and make money instead of working for their own fun
>After all, the beauty of doujin works is that people put enormous amounts of effort into something that they'll give away for free (or at a price that doesn't even remotely break even)
>What you say does apply to games, however, which is something that should be fixed.
What a fucking commie faggot. Let people work on what they WANT to work. Especially if it's FOR FUN.
I wouldn´t mind an RPG where you start as a bottom-tier danmaku user and you have to get good trought danmaku battles against the characters of the game. of course I´m leaving too much details aside, but you could also befriend some of the characters and eventually they would teach you something in the process, which would help you get stronger etc...
Of course, there is too much risk of this ending as an insult to the franchise and a secondary magnet.
It'd be refreshing to see a non-danmaku game once in a while too. The characters having giant sprays of bullets was necessary for the genre, but since we're talking about a fanwork here, there's nothing wrong with a different spin on the characters' powers.
The very concept of "It must be new" is horribly flawed. We don't need something new and there's a strong argument for NOT being new since we want recognizable STG roots.
We just need something competently designed, with a good range of difficulties, and of course danmaku aspects.
A well done third-person action or shooter game with a lot of bullets would work great. Something along the lines of NiER, but with better gameplay.
Eh, I don't agree that a better touhou game has to be visibly different from everything that has come before, iterating on existing games is good and it obviously attracts players from those games.
I also don't think danmaku has to be a featured in a fan game. Using the characters is the important thing.
But if we're going in this direction and considering a shooter, I've always wondered about a first person shooter with "micro-dodging". Possibly 3rd person would work too, but first person lets you hide the representation of your character.
The basic idea is that your hitbox doesn't have to be aligned with your avatar at all times. Moving normal would move your hitbox as you expect, but you could also nudge your hitbox within a small area from the center of your avatar.
more like the actual mechanics of dodging should be complex
Just imagine you have 3 different buttons from dodging: one for a small step in the direction your character is moving, one for a longer distance and other for jumping quite a bit. The dodges wouldn't be complex by themselves, the game would simply give the player different types of basic dodges options that can be used in different forms
I don´t know exactly how to explain what i have in mind right now, but more o less you get the idea
There was a cute MonHun-esque game released recently called GOCCO of War. It's basically a third person shooter with chibis and guns powered by air mana. Maybe a Touhou game like that could be interesting.
You could get around that by having it be a locally hosted game the way arena shooters and the like handle it, so people would just host their own playservers while you had your master server just track story related data such as "Alright faction A won 1643 games during the event, faction B won 1544, faction A wins the event". You'd have to place a LOT of faith in the playerbase not abusing that though.
>But if we're going in this direction and considering a shooter, I've always wondered about a first person shooter with "micro-dodging". Possibly 3rd person would work too, but first person lets you hide the representation of your character.
>The basic idea is that your hitbox doesn't have to be aligned with your avatar at all times. Moving normal would move your hitbox as you expect, but you could also nudge your hitbox within a small area from the center of your avatar.
I don't see what that'd provide that just moving the avatar and hitbox together wouldn't, aside from massive confusion and unintuitive behavior.
Unless it's turnbased, KISS.
Good, don't come back.
> I don't see what that'd provide that just moving the avatar and hitbox together wouldn't, aside from massive confusion and unintuitive behavior.
Imagine your hitbox is much smaller than a typical FPS avatar and visible on your screen much like your crosshair is. I suppose this idea doesn't require separating hitbox movement from avatar movement per se, but you can't micro dodge with the same sensitivity that you use to move around.
>Imagine your hitbox is much smaller than a typical FPS avatar and visible on your screen much like your crosshair is. I suppose this idea doesn't require separating hitbox movement from avatar movement per se, but you can't micro dodge with the same sensitivity that you use to move around.
Then you're just adding another thing you have to control for minimal added benefit.
What's wrong with the "Hold button to move slower" system?
If it's not popular, you can handle all the hosting off a home PC. If it is popular, somebody will step forwards to host.
And if you don't bloat the game, you can make it so any idiot with a good connection and a toaster can host.
>Then you're just adding another thing you have to control for minimal added benefit.
>What's wrong with the "Hold button to move slower" system?
Who says I don't like that idea? The idea I'm proposing is about micrododging, and I don't see the requirement to move the hitbox independently. I think a visible hitbox that is smaller than normal is a good idea though.
True but danmaku is also such a big part of the lore you really have to reinvent the lore or create a side story that purposely eschews danmaku (like Puppet Play) to justify it.
Or just ignore it I guess. That works too.
What about a game where we're all yukkuri and we have to bound and roll together to escape horrific fates? Like a cooperative platformer?
I'm OP and I have no affiliation with this person.
I'm sorry, SaijeeHiguchi, but I wouldn't make a trailer with such early models. Not enough polys, bro.
Calm down with the fervent promotion and we'll talk.
JSRF was a manly-as-fuck game. I loved the cel-shading and outstanding soundtrack. There aren't very many games in this genre, so that might be worth exploring.
A lot actually do. Anything competitive, of which it's not uncommon. You want names?
Nonet series, Magical Battle Arena and similar games like >>14663983, any fighting game just about, Acceleration of Suguri and others by that group. Some party games have it too, and I presume racing games, but I don't play those kind of games. It's not at all uncommon though.
>how many good doujin games do you know that are in 3D?
I can't think of any in 3D that I don't consider good, really. Some I don't like, but I don't know about not good. Unless by god, you mean 'gud grafix'. The only bad 3D games I can think of are all professional porn games.
>implying cute 2hus would be hateful killing shitters
>implying they wouldn't convert all arabs to shintoists, taoists and buddhists and removing their shit culture without killing them
>implying they wouldn't destroy people who disagreed with them getting more faith, in this case SJWs
What global culture there is should be exterminated on sight. "Get with the times" is one of the worst non-arguments ever made, particularly when said piece of global culture is shit on by /jp/ to this very day.
>I hate most of the other board's culture.
Then stop supporting it, you stupid fuck.
On the contrary anon, it is an important facet of hospitality to not only let your guests shit on your bed, but eat your light bulbs and sit in your spot as well.
I know someone who idolizes a culture who's idea of hospitality is "here's your fucking tea" but, please, let's take after civilized races and not island dwelling bumpkins.
>Lastly, you are in denial if you don't think implying is a part of /jp/'s culture.
It's part of /jp/ culture the same way that advertising, flooding the board, and blogging about stupid pointless shit nobody wants to hear is /jp/ culture. It happened - and happens - but it's also complete garbage which thankfully, due to the tireless efforts of everyone, has been suppressed.
>Multi-board-culturalism can be slowed down by us telling people to fuck off but it can't be stopped forever.
All people die in time but that's still not a reason to huff gasoline.
I might be able to solve that problem if you were more descriptive.
>The shooters are too cutthroat for the ordinary gamer, and both danmaku and fighters are obscure genres in general.
And? why do you need something that can appeal to a large audience, touhou has done just fine being niche as it is. Not everything has to try to appeal a large audience.
who wants to collaborate with me on a suicide pact
From the beginning Saijee got shit for two main reasons: 1, that he embedded himself in a community that /jp/ didn't like (which is arguably irrational hate,) and 2, that he acted like a fucking jackass. Even the tolerant, heartwarming, supportive people over at Shrinemaiden got sick enough of his duplicity to drop a full site ban on him. They don't do that often. He didn't magically become an asshole after the crowdfunding thing, that incident just gave him the opportunity to put his true colors on display.
That said, if you're not capable of interfacing with a destructively critical community then /jp/ is indeed not for you. Well, to be honest, /jp/ isn't even good at that these days because too many people have gotten into their head that they should shit on things because it's the thing to (do as opposed to offering genuine criticism) but you still might find some.
>Upon the low value of "constructive" criticism I can offer testimony out of my own experience. My books have been commonly reviewed at length, and many critics have devoted themselves to pointing out what they conceive to be my errors, both of fact and of taste. Well, I cannot recall a case in which any suggestion offered by a "constructive" critic has helped me in the slightest, or even actively interested me. Every such wet-nurse of letters has sought fatuously to make me write in a way differing from that in which the Lord God Almighty, in His infinite wisdom, impels me to write — that is, to make me write stuff which, coming from me, would be as false as an appearance of decency in a Congressman. All the benefits I have ever got from the critics of my work have come from the destructive variety. A hearty slating always does me good, particularly if it be well written. It begins by enlisting my professional respect; it ends by making me examine my ideas coldly in the privacy of my chamber. Not, of course, that I usually revise them, but I at least examine them. If I decide to hold fast to them, they are all the dearer to me thereafter, and I expound them with a new passion and plausibility. If, on the contrary, I discern holes in them, I shelve them in a pianissimo manner, and set about hatching new ones to take their place. But "constructive" criticism irritates me. I do not object to being denounced, but I can't abide being schoolmastered, especially by men I regard as imbeciles.
Yeah. I've stopped going to /g/ for that reason. It's mostly people with preconceptions and no actual relevant knowledge.
/jp/ is a different beast, and that's why I still even care. And as you said, there isn't really a better place to gather knowledgeable people who are also interested in Touhou.
>Also, the group think is so annoying.
This thread has actually displayed a diversity very rare to 4chan.
>blogging about stupid pointless shit nobody wants to hear is /jp/ culture
You must have Asperger's and sociopathy if you're talking about anons "going to Gensokyo" because of their shitty lives.
Jeez, I consider /jp/ the nicest board but you're a stick in the mud. I'll fuck off, and you should also fuck off.
inb4 fuck off with old Anglo metaphors because this is otaku culture
inb4 fuck off with inb4
bullet hell games are not too cut throat for the average gamer, the average gamer just lacks the concentration to play one for more than 5 minutes.
Everyone and their mom has played one of these types of games before, and they all play it the same way. They stick a quarter in the 1942 machine, play their credit and walk away.
Rather than a bullet hell game, someone should make a more traditional shoot 'em up. Something like Raiden before it wanted the Cave audience. A game focused on shooting and blowing things up and having nice backgrounds and getting power ups.
More horizontal ones too. Maybe even a Touhou Einhander.
No we don't. Anyone who got interested in Touhou or even found out about it for anything other than the bullet hell games doesn't deserve to be here or have anything to do with the series.
>Not to mention you cant reach Remilia on easy or unlock the extra stage.
That's the point, if you want a casual walk through the park then you'd better just go home as Sakuya tells you to.
and what happened to warosu WHAT HAPPENED TO WAROSU
Jews misclicked /jp/ instead of /biz/ but instead of just going back to /biz/ they decided to make a thread here for fun, that also caugh a scamming dude that tried to make easy cash some time ago too apparently, I don't see how he would notice the thread since last time he implied he hates us and we're super shit so he shouldn't be here anymore but that's another story.
I think the guy who got banned wasn't OP, because it seems like they got all his posts.
He might have been driving the conversation given how fast the whole thing died though.
>That's extremely offensive.
It's necessary to filter easily offended people out of the board.
I would like that ZUN try to make a "second" set of characters, like Marbel and Renko, basically no in the loop of Gensokyo but in the same canon, these characters could have a different genre for their games.
I think probably on a humans from the outside world, if he wants another miko, it could be like Sanea, a miko that actually see gods or shit in the outside world, she keeps the youkais from being discovered when doing "incidents" in the outside world and since we know that are some communities of youkais outside (Tanukis) there is plenty ground for more characters and also showing the difference withing a outside world youkai and a gensokyo one.
Needs a cool FPS game with or without guns.
If it's competitive and generally difficult like CS:GO it'd be even cooler.
Giving the 2hus guns will be a bit "meme-y" in nature and it might attract autists though. It could be like an FPS game with magic and stuff.
It wouldn't even need that big of a budget. Just a guy with some FPS knowledge and a big love for touhou
A canon campaign would also be cool if it doesn't have guns.
The OC and fangame generals are primarily for creators and creative types to do actual projects, this thread is for a bunch of random jackoffs to throw around ideas and pretend that we're going to make a game.
Wow, this thread's still getting replies.
I like your idea, but a 3PS might work better. Since we're playing for the 2hus, we might as well see them.
A 3PS, open-world, MMO-style game that can be run on private servers. Or something like that.
That's not bad, but imo it has to keep a 'skill-based' difficulty with a very steep learning curve to keep the more 'hardcore' gamers that are also touhou fans interested and keep the autists/casuals away.
If it's even a little bit grindy and not only skill oriented I think it'll fail. So levels and gear shouldn't be implemented.
Story-driven, skill based shooting mechanics and cute 2hus should be all the important stuff to make such a game work. The rest is irelevant imo, but yeah, actually seeing your 2hu would be nice.
Touhou games are pretty difficult and hard to master and I think this is, for some, even more important than waifus.