What went wrong, /int/?

>>55069519
centuries of catholicism in it's most corrupt means
thread/

>>55069909
its*

dio cane

>>55069519
confidence

>>55069519
They stole our flag.
They have the Mexican curse upon them.

Italians know that they can never reach the perfection that was Rome, and they will forever be in its shadow. This leads them to self-hatred and inner squabbling.

>>55069519
pride

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>>55069519
Back in the day we was romans until them evil white moors invaded and destroyed Italian civilization.

it's filled with italians

>>55069519
>Sicily is shit
>Sardinia is shit
>South Italy is shit
>Central Italy is mid tier
>North Italy is god tier

You know what to do.

Cheers.

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Why do anglos are so jealous about us?

>>55070224
>Sardinia is shit
how dare you

>>55070224
>t. Matteo Polentonioni

>>55070280
F

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>>55070224
>North Italy
>White

>>55070280
Punic brother?

>>55070224
t. Ambrogio Ahmed al-Salami

>>55069909
>>55069957
>>55070224
>>55070275
>>55070319
Your eagle flew away lads lmao

>>55070275
>muh m-muh m-m-muh muh muh m-muh m-m-m-m-muh muh m-m-muh m-muh jealously

>>55069519
Renaissance Italy=Modern Italy>Roman Italy

imho

>>55070224
if I can easily find a job in my field in Poland and western eyropean countries does it also mean i could easily find a job in northern italy or not necessarily

>>55070294
Cheers.

>>55070349
Un aguila està robando su bandera señor, mira!

>>55069519
>8th largest economy in the world
>G8 member, NATO member
>globally renowned cuisine, literature, arts, music
>rich history
How exactly do you figure Italy went wrong? Even per capita they're richer than NZ

>>55069519
Capitalism happened.

Italian maritime republics got rekt by mercantilism. So industrialisation was hurried in each Italian state in a very asymmetric way. The Eternal Geonese and the Eternal Venetian pushed their merchant ways and drew workers from the South while accumulating wealth in the North. This only added to even more disparity and underdevelopment in the South. Do this for 200 years and people will end up voting for Berlusconi three times.

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>>55070349
The Padanian state doesn't need petty animals in its flag.

Cheers.

>>55070447
>corruption everywhere
>no gender equality
>Catholocism
>mafia
>arabian genes
>failing economy
>all the hotest italian girls are moving abroad to get dicked

>>55070447
Nobody really thinks that Italy is shit, op is just a dumb sack of shit.

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>>55070491
>Capitalism happened.

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>>55070537
>Gender Equality
Stopped reading right there.


Also Italians look like Jews way more than arabs.

>>55070605
North Italians are pehonotypically Germanic.

Cheers.

>>55070491
You don't know shit. Maritime republics were long gone before the industrial revolution hit. Problem was that everyone was at war against each other, and didn't think twice to ally to a foreign nation. That's why every century either had French, Spanish, or Austrian domination. Then the Englishmen allowed us to unify.

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>>55070605
>hurr durr women are subhuman

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>>55070596
Now I see why we Italians enslaved the Slavs. Kek. They don't hold a candle to us

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>>55070667
So they look something like this?

>>55070825
Cheers.

>>55070867
salu2

>>55070898
Salùt!

>>55069519
>Post WWII labor movement/good governance in the north gets counteracted by US interference in the local politics and half the country gets bogged down in corrupt bullshit and asia tier labor practices in the south + some goofy bullshit from the vatican = country cant do shit because of how fucked up half of it is
Welcome to Earth.

>>55070973
>le hurr durr le south brings the country down maymay
Living in the North is far better than living the best parts of USA, while the South of USA is far shittier than our South

>>55069519
Shift of major centers of trade from Mediterranean to Atlantic.
Internal fight that facilitated foreign conquerors.
Foreign dominators who didn't care much about developping their domains in Italy.
Alps hindering the ways of communication and trade with main cultural and trade centers in the rest of Europe.

Are we picking on italy this week?

>>55071198
It's easy and funny to trigger

>>55069519
Polentshit French-cocksuckers unified it in a shitty way trying to transform a pluralist and catholic territory in a secular and centralist one

>>55071158
I agree with what you said but Im not sure how it invalidates my post, its objectively true that the US intervened in post WWII italian politics and basically handed the government over to conservative elements from the far more corrupt south of italy for 2 or 3 decades. That political turn left Italy in the hands of the least able to govern and the least interested in governing well, while the North which had strong labor and good governance practices was politically sidelined and unable to bring government that actually governed for the benefit of Italian citizens.

The south isnt too heavy for the north to carry, but its politics is. Italy was made into a shadow of what it could have been just so NATO could have a big peninsula in the Mediterranean to project power from.

>>55071570
What the fuck are you talking about, most of the post WWII Italian PMs were Northerners

>>55071570
This is true, I don't know why any other Italian would want to debate. Gladio was strong here, and mafia was one of the main anti-commie weapons used in the south. And this had all began already with the ally invasion of Sicily, where the Americans already started making agreements with the locals.

>>55071197
This.

>>55072144
So what? conservatives had enclaves up in the far north as well, but the conservative culture and corruption and most of their political support came from the south.

>>55071346
Vaffanculo al Nord!

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>>55072488
Sure thing

>>55072734
>I cant actually refute anything you say so Ill just pretend you are wrong in the hopes that I can save face
Ok anon. You could also just man up and change your worldview though, just a thought.

once we've defeated the mafia we'll return to be the richest country in europe

>>55072908
And you could provide some proofs, sources, etc. before talking out of your ass.

>>55072949
"Se lo Stato italiano volesse davvero sconfiggere la mafia, dovrebbe suicidarsi"

>>55073064
per quanto apprezzi chi disse quela frase, qui era nel torto

>>55069519
the south

>>55073212

The north is only good at emulating the worst from northern europe

>>55072997
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Italy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_general_election,_1948

Just a start, Im not going to look up specific articles or books when youre probably not going to even read this. The US was influencing the elections post WWII directly through money, forged documents/letters, right up to possible false flag attacks to make the socialists/communists that made up the bulk of the north's political community.

In addition to this there was a wider NATO covert force in Italy (also in a number of other European nations) that also influenced a number of things in post war Italy, specifically hamstringing the local left leaning political parties, since there wasnt much Russian involvement for them to counter to speak of.

But keep thinking your politics weren't hijacked by external forces, for whatever reason. Its no skin off my back.

>>55073517
And I want to make this clear that it doesnt mean I think socialist/communist governments are magically better or even that a government for Italy based on the post war socialists would do better, its just that theres a good chance it would have been better for Italy given the different politics in Italy at the time if the socialists had won.

Jews ,niggers and commies.

the usual yuropean sickness.

>>55073425
no need to be butthurt m8

southern italy is literally the shittiest region in Europe, Romania tier

>>55073517
I'm not denying that USA influenced that, this is a well known fact, because, you know, they teach Italian history in Italian schools. The bullshit is that USA favored politicans from the South and they were corrupted. The only true thing is that DC was more popular in the South and Socialists in the North, but this doesn't translate to DC Southerners politicans and Socialist Northerners politicians.

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>>55070447
>>G8 member
We're about to get kicked out though along with France

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>>55070089
Hahahaha!!!

>>55073823

You need to travel more trust me

>>55074337
I've been to Russia and I can say 100% it's better than the south

of course terroni on /int/ are too deluded to admit that their country is shit, the good thing is that they actually acknowledge this IRL

>>55074475
South Italy is still better than Wales, Portugal, Greece, The Balkans

>>55073958
Like I said there were DC northerners, but the corrupting influence of the mafia and others comes from the South, and was encouraged by the US pretty enthusiastically since the mafia was willing to act against socialist/communist groups, and sometimes unintentionally since during the US invasion the US basically wiped the political slate clean (similar to the second Iraq invasion) which left a political vacuum that was filled by mafia once politics started back up again.

Mafia members were murdering communists and socialists in Sicily by 47/48 to prevent local land reform, and this kind of corruption/violence is the kind of thing Im talking about. The ties between landowners/conservative elements to mafia that the US invasion let blossom because of the power vacuum of removing the fascists from power led to a situation in the south where violence and corruption was comparatively widespread, and that corruption and violence was eagerly co-opted by the United States which was very interested in preventing any kind of socialist/communist government from forming in Italy that might potentially be sympathetic to the Soviets.

While the socialists/communists werent exactly saints themselves (though the extent to which they were not saints is in doubt since alot of the shenanigans perpetrated by them were false flags/forgeries/etc), they were much more likely to play by the rules than the DCs at the time, and they were much more interested in governing Italy for everyone's benefit instead of governing it to maintain the status quo to defend the interests of the current power holders and wealthy.

>>55074570
maybe it's better than the most of the Balkans but that's it

>>55074653
If you don't prove that early DC members were linked to mafia, everything you're saying is useless

italy was literally elder god tier before unification

>>55075375
Piemontesi ruined everything

>>55075375
Yea, keep believing that. Italy didn't exist at all, and was shit pretty much everywhere.

>>55075544
t.il garibaldino

>>55075117
Im not sure they were linked explicitly to the mafia, but compared to the socialists and communists of the time they were corrupt. Corrupt does not necessarily mean mafia (though Im sure they had some dealings, it just wasnt a hard relationship).

However, I have no doubt the DCs were involved repeatedly with mafia corruption over the years to greater or lesser extent just from the situation, the dovetailing interests early on, and the constant investigations and associations about DC involvement with mafia/corruption.

>>55075692
Sei uno di quelli che crede che lo stato Borbonico prosperasse?

>>55075759
>Im not sure they were linked explicitly to the mafia, but compared to the socialists and communists of the time they were corrupt. Corrupt does not necessarily mean mafia (though Im sure they had some dealings, it just wasnt a hard relationship).
Yeah, then prove that their corruption somewhat comes from the South as you said before.

>However, I have no doubt the DCs were involved repeatedly with mafia corruption over the years to greater or lesser extent just from the situation, the dovetailing interests early on, and the constant investigations and associations about DC involvement with mafia/corruption.
That's why I said "early", we're talking about the first decades after WWII, right? When the USA had some influence.

>>55075846
no sto solo dicendo che almeno prima dell'unità non eravamo una barzelletta

>>55075907
>mafia based in the south
>DCs power base based in the south
Its from the south.

Im not sure what kind of proof you want.

>That's why I said "early", we're talking about the first decades after WWII, right? When the USA had some influence.
The DCs have been corrupt for their entire existance, and mafia's influence has been minimized since the late 40's/early 50's during the post invasion destabilization, the US has had a strong influence int he region until the early 90's (if you believe in unicorns), the reality is they probably exert a strong influence still today.

And again I never said the DC was explicitly linked with the mafia, their interests were strongly aligned though, and I dont have much doubt that they worked together in many cases (even if unintentionally) to change the political landscape of post-war Italy.

Corruption was partly from DC, partly from Mafia, partly from large landowners, but I didnt ever mean to imply they were all the same thing or working closely together. But they all did contribute to a general culture of corruption in the south.

>>55076253
>>mafia based in the south
>>DCs power base based in the south
>Its from the south.
Are you retarded or the fat in your arteries prevents your brain from working?

>>55076399
Do you contest that the DC's power base is in the south?

Or that the mafia is generally much stronger in the south?

Or that both of these organizations were to a greater or lesser degree corrupting influences on early Italy?

Im not sure what the problem is or where this is breaking down for you.

>>55070275
Americans and Brits before them have tried their hardest to get to the Roman Empire's level but never managed, hence bitterness.

>>55077484
>Do you contest that the DC's power base is in the south?
This is true only in the sense that most of its votes came from the South. That's fucking it. It doesn't mean that, if DC was corrupted, that was because of the South. The South just voted them more than the North.

>>55077645
>most of their votes
Influenced by corruption and shennanigans and false flag attacks

Do you know what corruption is?

>>55077645
Why do you think they were voted so much?

>>55077636
But both the americans and brits had much larger empires than the romans, and the americans are virtually unopposed in their hegemony over the world, while the romans were constantly contested by large empires and external threats (real ones, not muh terrirsts ones that the US likes to cry about)

Someone let the fucking Italians run the country.

>>55070696
>hurr durr italy isnt equal enough
its not saudi arabia faggot

>Longest life expectancy in EU
>One of the most visited countries in the world
>EU Big Four
>51 world heritage sites
Nothing went wrong, actually.

>>55079269
>italy isnt equal enough
It's actually very equal, even more so than you, you just have extremists like that feminist party that give you a false perception

north Italy should be a part of Argentina tbqh

>>55079608
Yeah, please take those whiny faggots with you, just don't complain when they'll ruin your country too

>>55079608
you already have north italians running your country and look how that worked out for you Corruptina