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Auschwitz guard, 94, goes on trial in Germany
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You are currently reading a thread in /int/ - International

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http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-nazi-trial-victims-idUKKCN0VJ2Q3

>A 94-year-old former guard at Auschwitz has gone on trial in Germany of being an accessory to the murder of at least 170-thousand people, the first of four such court cases that could be the last due to the very old age of the defendants.

>Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu celebrated the news, declaring, "No matter how much time passes, the crimes of your past will always catch up to you in the end."

Today is a good day for justice.
>>
>>54918929
he literally did nothing wrong
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>>54918929
>Auschwitz guard
Is he a Jew? Because the only guards in Auschwitz were ineed Jews and the only victims of it Poles.

Jews were in other camps.
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>>54918929
>country filled with rape and violence from Muslim immigrants
>let's arrest a 94 year old because fuck the elderly amirite
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>>54920769
>let's arrest a 94 year old because fuck the elderly amirite
No, only criminals
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>Angela Merkel forced to clarify Germany was responsible for the Holocaust following Benjamin Netanyahu controversy

>The German government has clarified it is responsible for the Holocaust following Benjamin Netanyahu's controversial comments in which he blamed the extermination of millions of Jews on a former Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader.

>Addressing the 37th World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem, Mr Netanyahu claimed the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini convinced Adolf Hitler that if he expelled the Jews they would settle in Palestine and exhorted him to "burn them".

>Asked about Mr Netanyahu's comments, Steffen Seibert, spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel, said there was "no reason to change our view of history".

>"All Germans know the history of the murderous race mania of the Nazis that led to the break with civilisation that was the Holocaust," he said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/netanyahu-holocaust-comments-are-no-reason-to-change-our-view-of-history-says-merkel-aide-a6702951.html
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>>54920874
That's a good thing.
>>
>>54918929
>No matter how much time passes, the crimes of your past will always catch up to you in the end

lol this is stupid as shit, thousands of ex nazis died peacefully in their home. the only ones that ever feared something were NSDAP big shots and the ones that made it past 2005

on another note, he looks fine for someone 94 years old. I wonder what kind of soap he uses to get such a fresh looking skin
>>
We backed the wrong side.
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>>54920809
Sure, he was an Auschwitz guard, but he's fucking 94, probably doesn't have a lot of time left, and they sure as fuck took their sweet ass time finding the right oppurtunity to do this.
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>>54920874
She's right

You can't change history to suit your politics

It's admirable how honest Germany is in examination of its history

I wish our country was a bit more mature in this regard

Slovak WWII state shares a blame for Holocaust
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>>54918929
>the crimes of your past will always catch up to you in the end
Is he talking about himself too?
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>>54918929
retarded desu .
>get conscripted to the army
>do your duty
>your own country arrests you when you're 94
what the fuck germany
i guarded a few bases in my life , dosnt make me the base commander\their commander\the general\politician that had it built\responsible for what goes on in there .

im all for persecuting\assassinating anyone who can be proven to have committed warcrimes. doing your job in the army and guarding your base is not a fucking warcrime and i find it disgraceful that germany dares treat its veterans like that .
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>>54918929
He looks pretty good for 94.
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>>54918929
fucking kikes. at least palis keep trying to do the job that our kike-loving countries refuse to do
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>>54918929
Is there any old german guard being arrested going full nazi and saying how he loved gassing jews etc...

I'd do it if I were this old desu
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>>54918929
There is no time limit for certain crimes, so why all the butthurt? He shouldn't have been tried because he is old or what?
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>>54921319
trials cost money
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>>54921319
Feels like a bit of a waste of time, no? If he gets sent to prison he'll probably die before his time is served either way, and >>54921354 .

Focus on the mehmets, mohammads, etc instead of poor hans' that are near the end of their lives
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>>54921306
that'd be nice. we got ETA members saying how they enjoyed killing socialists asociated with Spain for being two-faced cunts
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>>54921354
>>54921395
Money and effort are not important. It is more important for the German state that sooner or later everyone will be tried.
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>>54921136
i know its a bad joke, but "no stress cause loved his job" lol
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>>54921452
well you better hurry because I doubt there will be anyone left to be trialed in 10 years
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>>54921452
see
>>54921085
>>54920958
>>
>>54921085

ever heard of פקודה בלתי חוקית בעליל ?
>>
Will he get get a PS2 or PS3 as punishment?
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>>54918929

http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1455052251425.webm

So does that mean the grandma in this video need to be punished for something?
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>>54921561
I find it amazing how only 12 years of history can change the whole life of some people.
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>>54921452
You might aswell put the whole country on trial then. Allies gave up on the denazification of the country when they found out pretty much everybody with responsibilities and competence were had links with the nazis since that was the only way to be in charge of anything back then. As such allies stopped removing all those nazi sympathisers (being by ideology or pragmatism) from their posts and kept on having important posts decades later.
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>>54918929
>Today is a good day for justice.
Hardly, he will die before the trial ends and get the final laugh.
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>>54921541
that's IDF law ,wehrmacht wasn't IDF .and they didnt proof he killed anyone , just that he served there.
>>54921319
the butthurt is that they didnt say he did anything wrong ,no proof he killed anyone.what sort of a fucked up country sends a man to do something and then trials him for doing so.

you're basically telling all the people protecting your nation right now 'keep up the good work, oh and by the way we might backstab you in a few decades for the things we tell you to do now'.
>>
I agree with /pol/, old people should be allowed to get away with any crime because of their age. I mean come on, they're old, they shouldn't be in prison just because they assisted in genocide
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>>54921484
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>>54920568
t. kacjinskiskjaskowaski
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>>54921036
You can't steal our history!
It's all our responsibility and we won't share with anyone.
>>
>>54921036
>>54920874
>believing Germany gassed 6 million jews

the retardation is real
>>
May he rot in hell
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>>54922416
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>>54922416
t. Jamal muhammad
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>>54922416
t. antifa faggot
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>>54918929

50 years from now it will be the israelis who will be in trial.
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>>54918929
He's the one that's being prosecuted because of shifting lists consisting of workers who helped with unloading prisoners and, based on the list, he is accused of "taking part in murdering" somewhat about 300k people?
This whole thing is tacky as all shit and circumstantial in the worst meaning of the word (if this is the correct legal term for a trial with 0 solid proofs).
And on top of that, it sounds like something Murkel and German libshits would deliberately push in to divert attention from rapefugees. You know, "we wuz nazis n shit".
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>>54922563
>>54922568
>>54922545

No , I am german.
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>>54922660
im sure you are filthy sissy faggot
>>
At least they weren't shot in the neck in their bedroom by american special forces. That's something
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>>54920874
Hilarious!

>>54921036
Actually you can and it's a pretty common practice.

>>54922320
Explain all the press articles and TV essays talking about "polish concentration camps" you nazi kike!

>>54921085
How many world wars have you lost and how many shoahs have you conduct?
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They are literally doing something that is forbidden in our current criminal law. The saying is "Keine Strafe ohne Gesetz" translating to "No punishment without law, it means that there has to be a law first and before someone can do something criminal which prevents bogus politicans to jail people for somethin that was legal in the past but is not illegal, because that would be retarded right?

Well now they are doing it.
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>>54921561
That's cute
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>>54922802
>that was legal in the past but is NOW illegal

fixd
>>
>>54921561
TREUE BIS ZUM ENDE

SIEG HEIL

(Loyal to the very end, hail victory)
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>>54921036
never to late to send $600000000 to Israel ;^)
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>>54921036
>I wish our country was spineless and afraid of everything
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>>54921545
PS1 hooked up to a CRT. He better like the original Tony Hawk
>>
>>54922802
I'm very skeptical of these trials but you could reasonably argue that behaviour which is universally recognized as criminal, whether it was codified at that time or not, does not deserve protection of confidence, which is the ratio behind the prohibition of retrospective legislation, although that would obviously be very dangerous in itself.

Also, I'm not too knowledgeable about the way these cases are handled, but I'm pretty sure courts just regard the nazi regime and all its legislation as unlawful and apply laws which were established prior to the third reich, so that would be another way of achieving that.
>>
>>54922660
How many peggings do you get a week and do you enjoy prepping your live in Syrian bull for your girlfriend?
>>
>>54922845
>>54922802
>war crimes and murder weren't illegal
Wew Klaus
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>>54923076
But it was not universally recognized as a crime, it's enough if the country who does it says it's legal for it's citizens. This so called applied international law is a "Vertrag zu Lasten Dritter" which is a contract at the expense of third parties, this is also prohibited today as allways. The only way to justifiy their doings is to come clear and say that those are still acts of war and not something that is done under modern german law.
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>>54923334
I don't see how being a guard is war crime. Our "murder" paragraph is actually taken from the Nazis, they created it in contrast to manslaughter. You can only be a criminal against a person that holds righs, because in order for a crime to happen, you have to inflict damage upon a certain right held by the community or an individual. If the jews hold no rights in Germany you can't commit crimes against them.
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>>54922802
There exists no law that allows for the genocide of the jews. Not even Hitler made something like this public!
It was a secret mission executed by the SS and no law allowed this enterprise, ever.


So he can be prosecuted by actuall nazi law.
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>>54923791
First of all 6000000 Jews did not die lol. It's a fucking real life meme. And like I said in: >>54923440

You can only commit crimes against those who hold rights. If the entity holds no rights you cannot commit crimes against it. Jews had no rights.
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>>54922789
>Explain all the press articles and TV essays talking about "polish concentration camps" you nazi kike!
The slovenia guy can't steal our history...but as it seam poles are such advanced stealers nothing is save from them
not even our history.

I lately saw a Poleish guy posting Auschwitz as most popular polish monument.
tfw? whose is it? It 's ours isn't it?

Like when are you going to start to claim Prussias part in the victory against Napolean?
You greedy long fingered poles. Is there nothing holy to you?
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>>54923846
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>>54923997
Nice try Fritz, but we were with Napoleon through and through.
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>>54923356
Well these cases are always really hard to argue, but I think when discussing genocides we would be on a level where a "Vertrag zulasten Dritter" isn't really a convincing argument, if we accept the application of certain moral standards as standards for criminal law in the first place (questionable if we should). I realise legislation which is supposed to bind countries can not be passed by outside states. The first point I made wasn't really that great anyway, I just think that this is a train of thought our jurisdiction would follow.

Anyways, I think my second point might still apply and besides I really doubt that the third Reich outlawed murder (duh). They might have treated concentration camp killings as some sort of act of war, but that's hardly a convincing argument.

I think only an extreme legal positivist would argue that murder can be legal.
>>
The allies are getting desperate now that they're running out of old nazis to execute and parade around to the cucked masses.

Absolutely disgusting.
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>>54923846
The Law of the purification of the blood didn't took ALL rights of the jews.

So didn't the law to rebuild the German officials?
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>>54918929
I suppose he wasn't in a role to make decision to kill people.
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>>54924071
Da nur wir beide darüber argumentieren schreibe ich dir das mal hier:

Die Nationalsozialisten bezogen sich im Recht auf Fichte und Liszt. Ein studierter Jurist weiss nun sofort, dass nach diesen beiden Größen des Deutschen Rechts Personen nach duktus zu "Unpersonen" erklärt werden können, weil der dogmatisch Ansatz sich darauf beruft, dass Recht und Staat von Gesellschaft berufen sind und nicht der Staat die Gesellschaft beruft. Eine Unperson hält keine Rechte und ist damit vogelfrei, sie kann vergewaltigt, verletzt oder getötet werden, es ist dem Recht egal. Das alles gilt nach Fichte, worauf sich vorallem die Abwehrfunktion des nationalsozialistischen Stafrechts beruf, während Liszt Vorbild im gesellschaftsbildenden Strafrechtsteil war, also da, wo es um Leute ging, die noch ihren rechtlichen Personenstatus inne hatten.

Der "Vertrag zu Lasten Dritter" ist ein grundsätzliches Konzept, dass immer angewendet wird, es geht dabei nicht nur um kleine privatrechtliche Verträge, sondern um eine dogmatische Ansicht. Staat A und Staat B können keinen Pakt schliessen, der Staat C benachteiligt und das Anerkennen dessen auf instanzliche Weise von Staat C fordern. Diesen Umstand hat man umgangen, indem man nach dem zweiten Weltkrieg den internationalen Gerichtshof für Menschenrechte in's Leben ruf, der aber einen Mitgliedschaftsvertrag vorraus setzt, auch hier wurde penibel darauf geachtet, dass kein Vertrag zu Lasten Dritter enstand. Was nun aber den Nationalsozialisten vorgeworfen ist, ist regelmäßig ein "Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit" wobei "Menschlichkeit" von den "Menschenrechten" hergeleitet wird, die wiederum ein freindstrafrechtliches Konzept sind, das global postuliert wird, aber nicht global anerkannt ist und damit auch nicht als vertraglich geregelt eingefordert werden kann. FOLGE KOMMT
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>>54924541
Wenn nun, wie so oft, die USA, wie auch in Nürnberg, einem Staat vorwirft, sich an der Menschlichkeit zu vergehen, dann ist das ein reiner Agitationsbegriff, der weder kodizifizert ist, noch ihm jemals zugestimmt worden ist. Es ist ganz einfach so, dass gesagt wird, dass, was *ihr* dort tut, das gefällt uns nicht, hört auf damit. Man kann dabei aus politischen Gründen widersprechen oder zustimmen, aber man kann sich gewiss nicht dabei auf das Recht berufen, weil es für diesen Umstand ganz einfach nicht vertraglich geregelt oder kodifiziert worden ist. Mord kann, wie gesagt, nur an dem begangen werden, dessen Recht verletzt werden kann. Stell es dir einfach so vor, dass Grundrechte für Juden keine Geltung hatten. Konzentrationslager waren sogesehen eine außenpolitische Angelegenheit im Inneren.
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>>54924815
>, dass Grundrechte für Juden keine Geltung hatten
Wo steht das?
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>>54925035
" Staatsbürger kann nur sein, wer Volksgenosse ist. Volks-
genosse kann nur sein, wer deutschen Blutes ist, ohne Rück-
sichtnahme auf Konfession. Kein Jude kann daher Volksgenos-
se sein"

"Wer nicht Staatsbürger ist, soll nur als Gast in Deutschland
leben können und muß unter Fremdengesetzgebung stehen."

Grundsätzlich galt auch dem Gedanken der "Grundrechte" keine Zustimmung mehr, da die herrschende Meinung "Der Führer schützt das Recht" war, es bestand eine ungeschriebene "völkische Verfassung" so der Reichsrechtsführer H. Frank.
>>
rest in pieces germany
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>>54925254
Nicht zu vergessen die Reichsbürgergesetze von Nürnberg.
>>
>Hunting down 90+ year olds
>Meanwhile they're letting in tons young male muslims, likely ISIS insurgents
>Netanyahu celebrated the news
>>
>>54921085
>waffen SS
>conscripted
>>
>>54922416
t. C. Uck
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>>54918929
Why waste resources on trial. Just hang him.
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>Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu celebrated the news, declaring, "No matter how much time passes, the crimes of your past will always catch up to you in the end."
>>
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Any German who has sympathy for Hitler is a cuck. He ruined Germany and German nationalism for all Germans before and after him because of his own insecurities and paranoia.
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>>54918929
was he polish?
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>>54924541
>>54924815
Ich muss zugeben dass ich mich mit Rechtsgeschichte nur soweit beschäftigt habe wie es eben notwendig war, insofern bin ich diesbezüglich sicherlich kein Gesprächspartner auf Augenhöhe. Innerhalb des von dir dargestellten Rechtssystems ist es, wenn man diesen strikt positivistischen Ansatz durchhält, sicherlich vertretbar, dass "Unpersonen" rechtlos und damit vogelfrei sind.

In meiner Argumentation wollte ich auch nicht darauf hinaus, dass sich eine Strafbarkeit aus "Vertrag" (sei dieser zulasten Dritter oder nicht) ergeben könnte, sondern quasi aus Naturrecht (was ich persönlich zwar ablehne, zumindest in der Rechtsprechung des Verfassungsgerichts aber gelegentlich meine durchschimmern zu sehen). Lehnt man Menschenrechte grundsätzlich ab, kommt man auch über diese Schiene nicht zu einer Strafbarkeit. Ich tue mich zugegebenermaßen etwas schwer damit.

Dieser Ansicht wird die deutsche Gerichtsbarkeit aber kaum folgen. Zunächst gehe ich davon aus (Bildungslücke meinerseits), dass insbesondere das Strafrecht des dritten Reiches, soweit es ideologisch geprägt war, keine Anerkennung findet und sich diese Nichtanerkennung auch auf Lücken erstreckt, die im Vorgängerstaat nicht vorhanden waren (also Strafbarkeit auch des Mordes an Juden etc.). Wie gesagt, ich bin quasi ohne Vorbildung auf diesem Gebiet unterwegs und versuche mir vorzustellen, wie die Richter auf halbwegs legalem Wege zu einer Verurteilung kommen können. Wenn es um die Verurteilung subalterner Beamter geht sollte mMn. auch das Thema Verbotsirrtum virulent werden.

Im Rahmen der Nürnberger Prozesse bin ich mit dir schon eher einer Meinung. Hast du dich im Rahmen deines Studiums so ausführlich mit deutscher Rechtsgeschichte beschäftigt, oder mehr aus Interesse/bei Gelegenheit? Die Studenten, die ich kenne (mich eingeschlossen) , beschränken sich in Sachen Rechtsgeschichte angesichts des Umfangs des restlichen Stoffes auf das Nötigste.
>>
This pisses me off so much.
>>
Serves him right.
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>>54926497
nice troll pic
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>>54926777
Ja, ich habe mich im Studium ausführlich mit der Straf- und Prozessrechtsgeschichte befasst, war ein Zusatzkurz über zwei Semester.

Na ja, was heisst "Anerkennung", es wurde halt einiges Übernommen wie Mord oder Volksverhetzung, allerdings ideologisch umgestaltet. Ich halte die Unterscheidung zwischen Naturrecht und positivem Recht immer für Unsinn, es gibt für mich kein Naturrecht, Recht ist immer durch Menschen gemacht, die Behauptung, der Mensch würde mit Rechten geboren, ist auch von Menschen gemacht.

Ich denke die Prozesse werden einfach eröffnet ohne auf das Rückwirkungsverbot einzugehen.
>>
>>54927157
"troll pic"
when will poles make up for their contributions to the holocaust?
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