Yeah the cops shot and killed a mentally ill guy from my town too. Same kind of thing...The police knew this guy already, the family called because this guy had schizophrenia or something and they needed some help finding him or calming him down, and the police shot 14 bullets into him.
>Officers killed Shergill in a hail of gunfire after they encountered him in a park a block from his home on Elderica Way on the morning of Jan. 25. They approached him at the request of family members who reported he had left home in an agitated state, was off his medications and needed treatment at a psychiatric clinic. Relatives said Shergill, 43, suffered from schizophrenia and post-traumatic stress disorder.
>According to police accounts, the two responding officers, Corporal Scott Bratton and Officer Adam Lockie, found Shergill at nearby Peterson Park shortly after they spoke with the family. They told investigators that Shergill refused their demands to stop and talk, then turned and threatened them with a knife as they pursued him. The officers said they opened fire because they feared for their lives and the safety of Shergill’s family.
>They fired 14 bullets into his body; he died just steps from his mother’s home.
I'm sure this is as cherry-picked as all the rapefugee shit, but from this side of the pond you really get the impression that US cops literally just shoot everyone they meet, be it criminal, victim, bystander, animal, whatever really.
Shit, I am probably an aspie (no one in Russia can diagnose this shit properly) and hit myself like that all the time (only with both hands and much faster) - it helps me calm down overwhelming emotions. But I can control this, so I never do this when someone can see me.
Phew, at least I am not living in the land of the free and the home of the brave!
>>54870671 >Your training is typically 4 months or something. >Bother to google it. You didn't give a source. Most departments require at least an associate's degree (2 years) in criminal justice prior to entering the academy.
Why were they sending cops with no training in how to deal with mentally ill people to a house where the mentally ill person is trying to commit suicide? You wouldn't send a fireman to deal with a bank robbery.
You always get this from yanks, dismissing something and scoffing at it just because it's from LA or California.
Sure, I understand, in your minds it's a communist stronghold ready to rise up and shame the rest of you level headed folks. I realise that's a threat.
Nonetheless they are American, sure only a very very small part but still American.. still on the mainland.. still full of American people (Spics and niggers are the new American people), so when something happens there and you ignore it or laugh at it you should still remember that it's as much America as New york, Chicago, Dallas etc etc.
>>54867972 American Police killing just about anyone is a well known fact. They don't care about your colour, orientation and mental health. In a case of anything going down, what you don't want to, is having American police to show up.
I'm not saying that everywhere is like la, Im saying if LA has requirements that low there will be many other places in the US that are similar. Because, due to federalism, not every department needs to have the same quality of recruitment and training as the departments that ask for an associate's degree in criminal justice.
> It's not JUST about recruitment or training it's about fucking punishing cops for using excessive force (with real and long prison terms).
Proper training and recruitment is vital. If you hire a hot head, give him 5 months training and let him loose on the streets with a gun you are much more likely to get the problems America has than a proper vetting process and much longer training period.
>>54871826 >Spics and niggers are the new American people They've been here longer than most whites. >Sure, I understand, in your minds it's a communist stronghold ready to rise up and shame the rest of you level headed folks. I realise that's a threat. I'm actually pretty liberal (see: Vermonter), and I'm not a California hater. They just don't represent the rest of the country. >it's as much America as New york, Chicago, Dallas etc Those are still cities.
What's so hard to understand about the fact that laws and culture vary wildly between states and regions? >b-but same language = no cultural difference K
>>54871924 Xe was first and foremost autismus and every other thing came in second (and as a result of it). What Xe needed was help with his primary condition and everything else would iron itself out.
Oh, sorry, didn't realise that your region dictates your political stance. I must be a socialist, that's news to me.
> They just don't represent the rest of the country.
Of course not, I realise that but see: >>548718524
>What's so hard to understand about the fact that laws and culture vary wildly between states and regions?
Again, that's not the point I'm making. Nowhere do I say that LA is representative of other parts of America, merely that it is a part of America and therefore relevant to the topic and shouldn't be dismissed as hurr durr LA
>>54872298 euros will never understand that there aren't things like an american police force or an american school system. their provincial minds can't comprehend the scale of the country, it's not their fault.
Kek. We understand alright... We just think it's bizarre that you have to watch out not to wander into a totalitarian area of your own country where the police perforate people daily for fuck all reasons.
>>54872230 >not relevant to the topic Then why did you bring it up? >didn't realise that your region dictates your political stance It's a pretty good indicator here, due to the political difference between states. >merely that it is a part of America But not my part, and, therfore, irrelevant to me and most other Americans.
I was mentioning the number and prevelance of them in LA which is a possible reason why you guys dismiss LA as quick as you possibly can. The amount of time they've been there compared to the whites, as you mentioned, is what is irrelevant to the topic.
>It's a pretty good indicator here but not precise and a rather comical way of looking at it.
> But not my part, and, therfore, irrelevant to me and most other Americans
We are talking about American police so American police are relevant.
Ok, just carry on with the lacklustre vetting process, lack of education, and short training period compared to most of the other world and then laugh it off when more of your own people are shot each year than pretty much every other 1st world country combined.
> It's not realistic to have a trained and level headed police force
I would have thought that you Americans with all of your rhetoric about freedom, and being the world's biggest super power and stronger than everyone else would be able to look after domestic safety a little better.
>>54867305 Meanwhile Yurocuck police are some of the pussified faggots there are. They have to resort to concealing crime statistics committed by immigrants to avoid admitting they have a problem on their hands.
>>54872781 yeah thats a huge part of it, and is overlooked way too often
one on hand the geography reinforces a certain individualism and inward focus, and on the other hand being america is like playing the game on easy mode and we can do any number of silly and counterproductive things without seeing significant consequences
>>54873019 >Yeah right. If I charged at a police officer holding a knife I'd be shot in any country where police carry guns.
No, especially not in the context of the story in OP.. If you were mentally ill, they'd get mental health professionals in with police backup, and less/non lethal tactics would likely have been deployed, like pepper spray or batons..
That said, even mentally ill people eventually get shot and possibly killed if they remain a threat to police when those attempts fail, and in some circumstances police might resort to deadly force due to immediate dangers... All that considered, killing the mentally ill seems to be less routine here than in some US states. Don't you have medical professionals that respond to suicidal people and such together with LEOs?
>No, especially not in the context of the story in OP.. If you were mentally ill, they'd get mental health professionals in with police backup, and less/non lethal tactics would likely have been deployed, like pepper spray or batons
>>54873172 >they'd get mental health professionals in with police backup, and less/non lethal tactics would likely have been deployed, like pepper spray or batons Not the American Way™ of doing things.
>>54873218 >them giving up their empire without a fight They put quite a fight out there in Latvia and even shoot up their parliament.
Yes, really. Especially in the context of OPs story, as I explained.. I also said that you would eventually indeed be shot, if you posed a direct threat that could not be mitigated with lesser means. Proportionality and all that..
>First German article about naked man with knife in fountain
From what I read the police responded with medical professionals present, and attempted to stop the man with less/non lethal means first. I said that police in the Netherlands (and apparantly Germany as well) ATTEMPT to do so.. Not that they're succesful every single time.
>The second video of German man being shot
Article said that police responded with medical professionals (ambulance), and that less lethal methods were attempted. Only when pepperspray didn't work, he was shot.. And he survived, at that. I couldn't tell from the blurred footage, but it seems they shot him in the legs. (he grabs his knee as he's on the ground). I believe in most US jurisdictions shooting for legs is not policy, right?
>Your police do it too. German police aren't necessarily mine, but sure.. I never said they didn't though. I said it seems to be less routine to shoot them, and that medical professionals tend to respond when you call our 911 for insane people. Especially in a domestic situation, when people call about their own child or something. >They shoot mentally ill folk if they have a fucking knife coming at them.
Yes. But if at all possible they will attempt to do anything to prevent a lethal outcome..
Example of 'confused man' in the Netherlands, attacking cops with sword.. He's eventually shot in the leg, but survived.
>>54871567 One, police-issue weapons have very heavy (~12lb) pull triggers, intended to replace a dedicated mechanical safety. This means that an officer who needs to quickly draw their weapon has one less step to be distracted by. Thus, it's pretty much impossible to fire one by accident or flinching.
>Guns should always be the last resort They were dealing with a person who was armed, agitated, and who that had been specifically informed was mentally ill and unmedicated. What the fuck do you expect them to do? Try and reason with someone they know for a fact is unreasonable? Hope that they'll have a mood swing and calm down on their own? The job of police is not to keep threatening people safe. It's to keep people safe from threats. If you call the police and tell them that you need help because there's an armed and angry mentally ill person, they are going to rightly assume that their goal is to protect YOU and others FROM the crazed knifeman, not that they should be protecting the knifeman from themselves.
>a warning shot should always be fired. Firing a weapon immediately escalates the situation. To someone who's jumpy, panicking, or scared (i.e. most people in a situation where drawing a firearm is necessary) a warning shot is indistinguishable from a miss. It immediately ignites the fight-or-flight response and ends any hope of resolving the situation calmly. A warning shot is only potentially effective with the element of surprise, as a means to shock someone who was unaware that a gun had been drawn into realizing the immediacy of the situation. Even then, it's as likely to cause panic as it is to help.
>>54873808 >The job of police is not to keep threatening people safe. It's to keep people safe from threats.
In America maybe.. In this country their first take is 'hulpverlening'. Helping those that need help.. The mentally ill are examples of those that need help.
>If you call the police and tell them that you need help because there's an armed and angry mentally ill person, they are going to rightly assume that their goal is to protect YOU and others FROM the crazed knifeman, not that they should be protecting the knifeman from themselves.
If you call 911 your mentally ill son, mother, husband, wife or whatever is having a fit, I'm pretty sure you're not calling for them to be killed... You call 911 because you expect medical help. That usually seems to be the case in these 'cop-kills-crazy in his own home' stories from the US..
>>54873780 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWTLZ1RBW_c Some are absolutely incredible. If you've ever seen a moose hound circle around a massive moose and manages to keep it standing long enough for you to shoot the moose. They are absolutely incredible. Dogs not used for hunting are pretty lame though.
>>54871947 Right, let's punish our already understaffed and overstretched police force by completely removing any personnel involved in a highly subjective category of incident, specifically of a sort that's extremely controversial and subject to extensive media scrutiny and ongoing political debates between groups who are more than happy to completely misinterpret events if there's the slightest chance that they can use it to advance their position.
People like you, who call for blanket punishments on the party you've pre-determined to be guilty completely removed from any context, are the fucking problem. You have half an understanding of a handful of incidents and use that to justify passing judgement on a thousand events that looks similar. You're a reactionary, bandwagoning twit who's happy to substitute zeal for thought, and you are welcome to go fuck yourself.
>Right, let's punish our already understaffed and overstretched police force
Your police force is understaffed and overstreched because your country is a fucking crime-infested shithole. Thing like having hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of civilians or retarded "war on drugs" don't help much.
>>54873172 >If you were mentally ill, they'd get mental health professionals in with police backup, and less/non lethal tactics would likely have been deployed, like pepper spray or batons You're looking at this from a backwards perspective. The police value the well-being of bystanders and innocents over that of the aggressive party. In their view, they received a call informing them that their was a violent, mentally ill person putting themselves and others at risk. So, which option is preferable? >send duty officers, who do not have mental health training, to contain the situation promptly, though they will likely resort to force since they are not equipped to handle interacting with the mentally ill or >procure a mental health professional and send them, along with an officer, to attempt to defuse the situation, leaving the mentally ill individual to threaten bystanders for a longer period of time while a specialist is located, and which may require force regardless if they cannot be reasoned with
Police will pick the first option every time, because the aggressor's life and safety is worth less than the life and safety of others around them. That's why any armed confrontation immediately turns from a minutes-long shootout into a days-long FBI siege the moment hostages become involved
>>54874069 Tasers have a history of being less than effective against the insane or intoxicated. Not that they're useless, mind, but when somebody's truly bugnuts they're more than capable of ignoring anything short of a perfect incapacitating hit, while a normal person would often be disabled even if the taser did not deliver an ideal, nervous-system-crashing shock, which is commonly the case if the prongs failed to fully penetrate or hit a location that just didn't convey the charge to the target's nerves as well as it should have.
>>54874475 They're overstretched because they're expected to do too many things in too many places that are too far apart, many of which turn out to be unnecessary (like being called to take statements after a fairly minor traffic accident, when the drivers could simply have taken a bunch of pictures with their cell phones) while understaffed.
They're understaffed because it's a shitty, demanding, thankless, and potentially dangerous job with mediocre pay and bad hours, which people will then proceed to give you shit for because their impression of you consists of news stories and traffic tickets. As a result of this, no politician wants to back additional funding for police because the public interprets that as rewarding shitty performance, which means the police can't afford to offer competitive pay that'd attract good workers until they somehow manage to get good workers.
So you end up with a shitty job with shitty pay dealing with shitty people that everyone hates you for doing, and what kind of person actually WANTS to do that kind of job? Generally, either thugs who are happy to beat people legally, or martyrs. Sadly, thugs are more common than martyrs.
>>54875638 It's funny you say that. Because despite having much higher fatality rate, I think on average it's something like only 10% of police in the U.S. EVER fire their weapons compared to 7% in most other European countries. Which is really weird at first, but when you looks at where the police are firing their weapons, you get a better picture of why they shoot to kill much more often, because police in the U.S. are trained that way in the case the suspect has a weapon on him.
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