>>53859358 >It looks like there are people trying to consolidate power in the continent into like a United States of Europe. they openly say this is what they're trying to do >some kind of continental police state >Isn't the schengen kind of a scary idea basically (from what i understand), schengen countries have to protect their outer boarders, but the boarder between EU nations is to be left undefended. to make sure it's all working smoothly, EU nations are to share intelligence, and finance each others security
the problem is they instead did stupid shit, like telling meditereninans to take in the refugees, then they said "where ever a refugee enters first, that is where he has to stay", then they said everyone to come to germany, and not they said don't come to germany anymore, as refugees are half way through europe. hency why countries have been putting up fences. the only way this can be scary, is if they create an institution to guard the boarders, that is independent from the nation states. then we would not be able to put up fences, and we'd only get whatever intelligence said institution gives us
>>53859502 Ok. I can see that. The borders* (sorry no offence a boarder is someone who is boarding somewhere like a house or someone's extra room. Just tryin to help.) surround the area and intelligence is shared. What about military forces? What about central banking practices?
It still looks like a fake benign attempt at centralizing power. It looks like the EU and schengen are going to move to be just 1 country in a few decades.
>>53859502 the "free movement of people and goods" between EU nations may be reformed by the UK. things like, foreigners aren't entitled to benefits, self employment is ok, but other employment can only be up to 20 hours a week (as was with the yellow card for bulgarians and romanians, which EU removed) that still doesn't solve the problem of "turks flooding into europe" tho. and if history is any indicator, the UK is likely to only strike a deal for themselves (and maybe ireland), so no reforms on the mainland
surprised nobody brought up the fact turkey is literally the only country to recognize northern cyprus, aka the occupied half of EU member cyprus. or that they don't recognize the greek sea boarders http://www.geetha.mil.gr/en/violations.html
>>53859670 >What about central banking practices? our central bank is very much like your FED, maybe a bit smarter one currency (the euro), backed by jewish magic, bulgaria technically has the lev, but it is pegged to the euro, so are other currencies >military they're trying to make a unified military force. imo it would be good thing, as it could be independent from NATO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJarXkeofd8
>>53859035 Because of multiple unsolved problems that haven't changed since Turkey's application: 1. The Greek question (territorial disputes) 2. The Cyprus question (invasion and occupation) 3. The Kurdish question (instability of such a scale that it sometimes amounts to civil war) 4. The Armenian question (not acknowledging the genocide) and not only were these questions not resolved but as of lately even a fifth was added: 5. The democratic question (moving away from checks and balances, independence of courts and freedom of the press)
>>53859750 Nono man I'm not mad. I'm not saying anything bad about Turkey. I actually quite like your language and the very nice Turkish people I've met irl. I just didn't ever consider it geographically part of the European continent.
>>53859778 >1. The Greek question (territorial disputes) >2. The Cyprus question (invasion and occupation) Turkey joining the EU would result in blurrying borders. So how is that even an argument when a joining would lessen the tensions? Isn't that the main argument the EU uses to justify its existence all the time anyway? No war in Europe? >3. The Kurdish (PKK) question (PKK caused instability of such a scale that it sometimes amounts to civil war) Yeah... I wonder why that hasn't been solved, ''yet''. >4. The Armenian question (not acknowledging the genocide) It never happened. >5. The democratic question (moving away from checks and balances, independence of courts and freedom of the press) You wished. Turkey is a constitutional rebublic and has not only the right but the duty to keep itself alive.
>>53860214 Yeah man, the Armenian genocide definitely happened. And it's not just a PKK question. All Kurds are not PKK. Don't you realize that repressed populations always, and I mean ALWAYS, end up with a militant group with extreme views and actions?
>>53860265 Armenians under their patriarchs' rule participated in a war against the Ottoman Empire, so the civilian population got escorted from the war zones in a time when resources were short and safe state adminstration a struggle.
No such a thing ever happened. Turkey requested Armenia to open its archives but it never did.
>>53860177 technically, a genocide would be more like the nazies killing gypsies, jews, etc. as in, for the sake of making them extinct
while a mass extermination would be more like something you might do in war time, or to separatists (which is what the armenians were)
technically i think the definition of "genocide" includes "mass extermination", but still
the reason we (and others?) word it like this, is because of political relations with turkey. we have a large turkish and muslim minorities, which turkey has influence over, also turkey protects our boarder from refugees (largely), we also trade with them a lot, have a large minority in their country, etc.
the armenians are buttmad because they want "genocide", as a word, to be associated to this event. however if turkey ever admired it was a "genocide", they might have to pay reparations, put in place affirmative action, etc and they have no interest in cooperating with armenia, especially since armenia is technically still at war with (turkish and oil rich) azerbaijan, who still has territorial disputes with armenia
>>53860214 >Turkey joining the EU would result in blurrying borders. So how is that even an argument when a joining would lessen the tensions? How would it lessen them? They had dogfights with fighter jets over these disputed islands as well as special operations with boots on the ground.
>Isn't that the main argument the EU uses to justify its existence all the time anyway? No war in Europe? The EU isn't an empire that tries to acquire as much territory as it can. The EU is a post-imperial project, meaning you have to be a stable and functioning and sovereign state first before you can join. These issues have to be resolved first.
>Yeah... I wonder why that hasn't been solved, ''yet''. Having a large portion of your country inhabited by another ethnicity while trying to act as if it was all your land during all of history might have something to do with it.
>It never happened. t. Mehmet Burkhardt-Ali
>Turkey is a constitutional rebublic and has not only the right but the duty to keep itself alive. Turkey can do whatever it wants. But it's not going to join the EU if it doesn't fulfill the EU's standards of democracy and freedom.
>>53860743 >but joining would solve that problem because of blurrying borders. And I asked you how would it lessen them? You do realize that state borders still exist within the EU, as you might have convinced yourself of this during the refugee crisis.
>Obviously your brain is made out of concrete. >No need to argue with you any longer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens's_razor
>>53860861 >hitchens razor tell the armenians to open their archives then
>You do realize that state borders still exist within the EU, as you might have convinced yourself of this during the refugee crisis. Yes, but they're blurried, that's the whole purpose of the EU, tearing down borders.
>>53860980 >tell the armenians to open their archives then There's ample evidence. Denial, especially without proof, has simply no point.
>Yes, but they're blurried, that's the whole purpose of the EU, tearing down borders. Not really. Borders still exist, and if the need arises, controls are being put in place. Multiple European countries proved that last summer. And you still didn't answer the question. You again cut it from the quote. So I'm going to ask you again: How would it lessen them?
>Not really. Yes really. The whole purpose of a supranational organization is blurrying borders, >Multiple European countries proved that last summer. That only shows that they were doing a shitty job. >How would it lessen them? As I said, the purpose of the EU is to deconstruct borders. Border disputes with deconstructing borders are lessened.
>Evidence That's why the Armenians shall open their archives. Why don't they?
>>53861064 >You're not really educated on this at all Save your sardonic bullshit for Reddit
>It has very little to do with ISIS A country that has been caught operating with terrorists on several occasions should not be able to reap the economic benefits of a union that is opposed to said terrorists.
>I'm guessing you saw a map with some red in eastern Turkey signifying ISIS? Where the fuck did I imply that eastern Turkey is ISIS? Do you lack reading comprehension?
>>53861163 >Why don't they? Armenia didn't even become a country until like 20 years ago, how do you expect them to generate an archive from a hundred years ago? Why does it matter if they do it or not considering a bunch of other countries present during WWI have their own documentation?
>>53861182 Sardonic? Don't go that far brother. I do agree with you that Erdogan is too shoulder-to-shoulder with extremists. I believe he's a man with immense power who is overstepping his boundaries.
And you're correct you didn't imply that. My apologies. It's a tough subject. I am trying to learn more about it.
>>53861163 >The whole purpose of a supranational organization is blurrying borders, Now you're beginning to sound ridiculous. You have just stated that the purpose of NATO, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, OPEC, UNO etc. is blurrying borders.
>That only shows that they were doing a shitty job. No, it proved that despite EU membership they're sovereign and have full control over their borders.
>As I said, the purpose of the EU is to deconstruct borders. >Border disputes with deconstructing borders are lessened. That's a claim. And a pretty retarded one, too. And one that I disproved several postings ago.
>That's why the Armenians shall open their archives. It's funny that you would call others brain made out of concrete, considering your methods of selective quoting to aid your narrative. For starters you can look up the Wikipedia article on the Turkish genocide of Armenians and simply read the references the article provides.
>>53860214 As if, Erdogan had a man arrested and put in jail for making a meme about him, they don't come to terms with half the rules and regs made in th treaty of Kopenhagen, heck if it weren't for the fact they Turkey has a lot of young people willing to enter the graying job market most countries in the EU wouldn't even give a second thought about it.
>>53861379 >You have just stated that the purpose of NATO, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, OPEC, UNO etc. is blurrying borders. Yes. >No, it proved that despite EU membership they're sovereign and have full control over their borders. That's not the case on all levels. Joining the EU comes with duties, some of them involving opened or partially deconstructed borders on certain levels: Certain taxation regulations, free moviement of a citizen between nations...
>That's a claim. And a pretty retarded one, too. And one that I disproved several postings ago. No you didn't.
>State archives are of lesser value than a Wikipedia article Turkey is even ready to fund it, Armenia shall open its archives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor
>>53861356 >They do have their own documents Any documents they had were probably absorbed into the Soviet Union and then to Russia.
>that's the only reason why it's up for debate and demanded. The only reason Turks bring it up is because they think it's a trump card, which is stupid when you again consider the archival problems like I mentioned.
Frankly, the recent eagerness of Turks to bring up the archive argument suggests to me that they probably removed any evidence that legitimizes Armenia's claim, as any country who would try to erase their past would do.
>>53859035 Because: Islam, Asia Minor >ASIA, occupied the Balkans, fuck off Mehmet Öztürk, Fighting against Kurdistan, Armenian genocide and still no apology, Give back Kypros. (Did they apologize for the Baši Bazuks? Bulgarski brat.)
>>53861542 >Yes. Well thanks for stating publicly that you're an idiot. (not that everybody monitoring this thread wasn't aware of it already)
>Joining the EU comes with duties, some of them involving opened or partially deconstructed borders on certain levels: Certain taxation regulations, free moviement of a citizen between nations... Which wouldn't work if there were disputes between members that get dealt with militarily on regular occasions. Hence, no membership for Turkey.
>No you didn't. Yes. Just follow the backlinks.
>Turkey is even ready to fund it, Armenia shall open its archives. You sound like a broken record. I showed you the way where you can find the evidence. This makes your proofless claim that there never was a genocide dismissable without proof. Hence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor
>Bye. I would like to say it was fun. But it was just boring and tedious. Next time bring more to the table to make the discussion interesting.
>>53861771 >for reasons of not realy knowing them It's pretty obvious, isn't it? Bosphorus: it's what geostrategists call a "choke point". It's the only reason they're in Nato and the only reason we (meanig the West) sorta put up with their shit.
>>53861676 >Give back Kypros. The funny thing about the Turks bringing freedom to the Muslim people in Northern Turkey is that the original Northern Cyprus people are right now a minority on their own clay...lol As Turkey put hordes of Turkish settlers to this place...
Southern Cyprus will never agree to take the Turks for cypriots and Northern Cypriot Muslims have not enough power do anything that removes the Turks from the mainland.
Turkey created a permanent point of conflict. It's unsovable...so Turkey will never get a EU Membership. At least one good thing.
>>53860387 >>53860980 >>53861163 Why are you still parroting this archive taqiyya? The Armenian State Archive is open. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=armenian-archive-chief-invites-turkish-historians-2010-04-22
>>53859035 >don't speak Indo-European language >not christian >historically an invader and enemy of Europe >not in Europe except for one city that they colonised >not a European culture They're not European. At least with countries that aren't geographically in Europe like Georgia it's at least ambiguous. Nobody wants them in. NATO European countries plus the US just pay lip service to supporting them so they let us put missiles in Anatolia.
Literally half the EU would leave if they were allowed in.
>>53862083 I'm not him, that's why the post you referenced is in totally shitty English. My English just sucks. The other German guys English and the Turks English are on much higher levels. While I myself just translate German sentences word by word and tweak them a bit.
But it's true Turkey created an unsolvable conflict in Cyprus.
>>53862443 I didn't say they weren't. Being European is really only about being located in Europe. If you're not located in Europe and you want to be considered European you had better be exceptionally similar to us. If America had a population of 50 million, occupied the same amount of territory as say France, and was towed to Europe over night I highly doubt anybody would object to you getting EU membership.
>>53862555 Definitely since the USA stands up for human rights etc (though there are some question marks obviously) and doesn't have any horrific genocides in their closet that they refuse to apologize for.
>>53863914 Lel. Ottomans literally never achieved anything. Their entire ''civilization'' was based on pillaging the Byzantines, once that was done you just faded into irrelevance while Europe shot ahead.
>>53859192 there is no difference between Anatolians and south Europeans when it comes to genetic. its super cringey to see mestizos discuss what is best for Europe and trust me, we have plentt of shitskins from South America, especially Chile
>>53859230 >Your country and Romania can't get into schengen because you will literally fleed, cause havroc and then getting labeled as a shit tier people by another euros forever
Schengen doesn't have anything to do with the movement of people. And most Gypsies from Romania and Bulgaria are abroad anyway. Countries with the same Gypsy population like Hungary and Slovakia are in and this does not change much for the rest of the members.
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