>>53840113 >ottomans capture the Constantinople >sultan mehmet claims he is new emperor of byzantine >ottoman empire collapses >Turkey is legally the continuing of ottoman empire >therefore Turkey=Byzantine
>>53837515 ALLAAAAAAH *prays to Allah* HOL UP *eats kebab* SO YOU BE SAYIN *rapes Bulgarian girl* SO YOU BE SAYIN THAT *steals baby from Christian family* HOL UP NOW *genocides Armenians* SO YOU BE SAYIN NOW *burns Smyrna* THAT WE WUZ *licks moustache hair* ROMANS *blames Kurds* AND SHIT?
>>53837515 if your only argument to be relevant is >we perhaps are technically under some circumstances the successor of the Roman Empire then your country is cancer and it's just another proof that everything T*rks do turns into shit
>>53841273 I autistically do desu, also try to pronounce /ae/ as /ai/ when reading some Latin name or something like that, also I'd never ever come to the idea of palatising the /k/ (never even had Latin at school though)
>>53841702 >cause the deaths of their own people Citation needed. Also greeks aren't very smart.
>leave the Turks unharmed? ebin memning friend
>According to the Inter-Allied Commission of Inquiry, the casualties on 15 May were as follows: Greek army (2 killed, 6 wounded); 100 Greek civilians (20 killed, 20 drowned, 60 wounded); 300-400 Turkish civilians killed or wounded. Eyewitnesses in Smyrna, reported higher civilian casualties regarding the Turks. The U.S. Naval Officer of the USS Arizona, which was berthed at the Smyrna harbor, estimated 300-500 Turks killed with a total of 700-1000 casualties. Regarding the Greek casualties, he estimated 2 killed and 15-20 wounded soldiers, 20-30 killed and 40-50 wounded civilians Reverend MacLachlan, a Canadian in charge of the international college at Smyrna, estimated 400-600 Turks killed.
>>53841918 The Great Fire of Smyrna or the Catastrophe of Smyrna (Greek: Καταστροφή της Σμύρνης, "Smyrna Catastrophe"; Turkish: 1922 İzmir Yangını, "1922 Izmir Fire"; Armenian: Զմիւռնիոյ Մեծ Հրդեհ) destroyed much of the port city of Smyrna (modern İzmir, Turkey) in September 1922. Eyewitness reports state that the fire began on 13 September 1922 and lasted until it was largely extinguished on 22 September. It occurred four days after the Turkish forces regained control of the city on 9 September 1922, effectively ending the Greco-Turkish War in the field, more than three years after the Greek army had landed troops at Smyrna on 15 May 1919. Estimated Greek and Armenian deaths resulting from the fire range from 10,000 to 100,000.
Approximately 50,000 to 400,000 Greek and Armenian refugees crammed the waterfront escaping from the fire; they were forced to remain there under harsh conditions for nearly two weeks. Turkish troops and irregulars had started committing massacres against the Greek and Armenian population in the city before the outbreak of the fire.
The subsequent fire completely destroyed the Greek and Armenian quarters of the city; the Muslim and Jewish quarters escaped damage. There are different accounts and eyewitness reports about who was responsible for the fire; most Greek and Armenian sources attribute it to Turkish soldiers setting fire to Greek and Armenian homes and businesses, while traditional Turkish sources hold that the Greeks and Armenians started the fire.[verification needed]
>>53842006 >Thus, the houses and villages were completely burned and destroyed by Russians and Bulgarians. The cows and anything that was possible to carry, were mugged. The Turk existence in Bulgaria has seized to exist.
>In 1877, the Muslim population in Bulgaria was 1.501.833. In 1879, 515.000 of this number reached to Ottoman controlled regions. 260.000 of this civilian population died in the war, which means annihilated. This is an ethnic cleansing.
>Before the war, Turks formed half of the Bulgaria's population. In some provinces, they were the majority. At the end of the war, 1 million Turks were exiled from their homes, or killed. After the war, half of the Turk population was not living in Bulgaria anymore.
>According to Lord Kinross, Bulgarians savagely attacked Muslim Turks and started killing them.
>According to Dennis P. Hupchick, disorganized Bulgarian rebels with bad weapons, did not manage to accomplish much except singing the recent patriotic songs and slaughtering their Muslim neighbours that were peaceful as majority.
>According to Stanford J. Shaw, the rebellions expanded, massacres towards Muslims started and the main Ottoman fortresses, close to Balkan harbours were captured.
>The acts of extermination, undertaken by Russians and Bulgarians, was the main reason of Turk migration. Some of these refugees were caught by the mobilized Russian army on the road. Many times they were attacked by Kazakhs and Bulgarians. Robbery and rape were common.
>The ones that managed to survive from this planned act of extermination of pan-Slavists, were called, "the left-overs of the sword".
It's more likely that Greeks would burn their own property because they didn't want to leave anything behind for the Turks.
Kemal says Greeks did it.
>1. It is necessary to comment on the fire in İzmir for future reference. Our army took all the necessary measures to protect İzmir from accidents, before entering the city. However, the Greeks and the Armenians, with their pre-arranged plans have decided to destroy İzmir. Speeches made by Chrysóstomos at the churches have been heard by the Muslims, the burning of İzmir was defined as a religious duty. The destruction was accomplished by this organization. To confirm this, there are many documents and eyewitness accounts. Our soldiers worked with everything that they have to put out the fires. Those who attribute this to our soldiers may come to İzmir personally and see the situation. However, for a job like this, an official investigation is out of the question.
So do others.
>Paul Grescovich, the chief of the Smyrna Fire Department and seen by Prentiss as "a thoroughly reliable witness", put the blame on Greeks and Armenians, stating especially that “his own firemen, as well as Turkish guards, had shot down many Armenian young men disguised either as women or as Turkish irregular soldiers, who were caught setting fires during Tuesday night [12 September] and Wednesday [13 September] morning”.
>The director of the school of the Alliance israélite universelle wrote in a letter of 18 September 1922, "It is sufficient for you to know that if the city was not completely destroyed by fire, it is thanks to Turkish army, who could arrive in time." >more than the half of the city was burned by the Armenians
>Johannes Kolmodin, a Swedish Orientalist scholar, was studying in Smyrna in those days. He wrote that the Greek army was responsible for the fire, as well as fires in 250 Turkish villages
>>53842016 >Alexander MacLachlan, the missionary president of the International College of Smyrna, who witnessed the fire, said in an article in The Times of 25 September 1922 that the Turkish soldiers seen to set the fire were disguised Armenians
>Turkish soldiers protected International College during the disruption of the occupation; a Turkish cavalryman rescued MacLachlan from irregulars who nearly beat the missionary to death while trying to loot the agricultural buildings of the college. A three-day Smyrna fire (13–15 September), which Turks made every effort to control, destroyed nearly a square mile in Greek and Armenian areas and made two hundred thousand people homeless. Included in this loss was the American Board's Collegiate Institute for Girls. MacLachlan's investigation of the fire's origin led to the conviction that Armenian terrorists, dressed in Turkish uniforms, fired the city. Apparently the terrorists were attempting to bring Western intervention. Informing Washington of a three million Dollars claim by the American Board against the Ankara government ...
>>53842448 >It's more likely that Greeks would burn their own property because they didn't want to leave anything behind for the Turks. If they wanted to burn their own property they would leave unscathed. And yet they didn't.
>Kemal says Greeks did it. No fucking shit that he would deny it.
Also if you're going to post sources then I might as well post some too.
>"I returned to Smyrna later and was there up until the evening of September 11, 1922, on which date the city was set on fire by the army of Mustapha Khemal, and a large part of its population done to death, and I witnessed the development of that Dantesque tragedy, which possesses few, if any parallels in the history of the world first cleared the Armenian quarter and then torched a number of houses simultaneously behind the American Inter-Collegiate Institute. They waited for the wind to blow in the right direction, away from the homes of the Muslim population, before starting the fire. This report is backed up by the eyewitness testimony of Miss Minnie Mills, the dean of the Inter-Collegiate Institute: "I could plainly see the Turks carrying the tins of petroleum into the houses, from which, in each instance, fire burst forth immediately afterward. There was not an Armenian in sight, the only persons visible being Turkish soldiers of the regular army in smart uniforms." This was confirmed by the eyewitness report of Mrs King Birge, the wife of an American missionary, who viewed events from the tower of the American College at Paradise.
- George Horton
>Horton quoted contemporary scholars within his account, including the historian Wllliam Stearns Davis: "The Turks drove straight onward to Smyrna, which they took (9 September 1922) and then burned." Also, Sir Valentine Chirol, lecturer at the University of Chicago: "After the Turks had smashed the Greek armies they turned the essentially Greek city (Smyrna) into an ash heap as proof of their victory."
>>53843353 >One of the witnesses in Marjorie Housepian Dobkin's account was the American industrial engineer Mark Prentiss, a foreign trade specialist in Smyrna, who was also acting as a freelance correspondent for The New York Times. He was an eyewitness to many of the events which occurred in Smyrna. He was initially quoted in The New York Times as putting the blame on the Turkish military. Prentiss arrived in Smyrna 8 September 1922, one day before the Turkish Army returned to Smyrna. He was a special representative of the Near East Relief (an American charity organization whose purpose was to watch over and protect Armenians during the war). He arrived on the destroyer USS Lawrence, under command of Capt. Wolleson. His superior was Rear Admiral Mark Lambert Bristol, U.S. High Commissioner to the Ottoman Empire from 1919–1927, present in Constantinople. His initial published statements were as follows:
>Many of us personally saw – and are ready to affirm the statement – Turkish soldiers often directed by officers throwing petroleum in the street and houses. Vice-Consul Barnes watched a Turkish officer leisurely fire the Custom House and the Passport Bureau while at least fifty Turkish soldiers stood by. Major Davis saw Turkish soldiers throwing oil in many houses. The Navy patrol reported seeing a complete horseshoe of fires started by the Turks around the American school.
>>53843451 >A near-contemporaneous account is given by René Puaux, correspondent of the respected newspaper Le Temps, who had been posted in Smyrna since 1919. Based on multiple eyewitness accounts, he concluded that "by Wednesday [13 September] the putrefaction of the bodies, left unattended since the 9th in the evening, became untolerable, explaining what happened. The Turks, having pillaged the Armenian quarter and massacred a great portion of its inhabitants, resorted to fire to erase the trace of their actions." He also quoted a telegraph by Major General F. Maurice, special correspondent for the Daily News in Constantinople, concluding that "The fire started on the 13th, in the afternoon, in the Armenian quarter, but the Turkish authorities did nothing serious to stop it. The next day eyewitnesses saw a large number of Turkish soldiers throwing gasoline and setting houses on fire. The Turkish authorities could have prevented the fire from reaching the European quarters. Turkish soldiers, acting deliberately, are the primary cause of the terrible spread of the disaster."
>Genocide scholar Rudolph J. Rummel blames the Turkish side for the "systematic firing" in the Armenian and Greek quarters of the city. Rummel argues that after the Turks recaptured the city, Turkish soldiers and Muslim mobs shot and hacked to death Armenians, Greeks, and other Christians in the streets of the city; he estimates the victims of these massacres, by giving reference to the previous claims of Dobkin, at about 100,000 Christians.
>>53843520 >British author Giles Milton's Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922 is a graphic account of the sack of Smyrna (modern İzmir) in 1922 recounted through the eyes of the city's Levantine community. Milton's book is based on eyewitness accounts of those who were there, making use of unpublished diaries and letters written by Smyrna’s Levantine elite: He contends that their voices are among the few impartial ones in a highly contentious episode of history.
>Paradise Lost chronicles the violence that followed the Greek landing through the eyewitness accounts of the Levantine community. The author offers a reappraisal of Smyrna’s first Greek governor, Aristidis Stergiadis, whose impartiality towards both Greeks and Turks won him considerable enmity amongst the local Greek population.
>The third section of Paradise Lost is a day-by-day account of what happened when the Turkish army entered Smyrna. The narrative is constructed from accounts written principally by Levantines and Americans who witnessed the violence first hand, in which the author seeks to apportion blame and discover who started the conflagration that was to cause the city’s near-total destruction. According to Milton, the fire was started by the Turkish army, who brought in thousands of barrels of oil and poured them over the streets of Smyrna with the exception of the Turkish quarter. The book also investigates the cynical role played by the commanders of the 21 Allied battleships in the bay of Smyrna, who were under orders to rescue only their own nationals, abandoning to their fate the hundreds of thousands of Greeks and Armenian refugees gathered on the quayside.
>>53840557 The ironic thing about this post is that the Ottomans were a lot more urbane and diplomatic than Caucasian states, as most of these were essentially tribal at this time.
By the 20th century the Ottomans were certainly behind all of Europe, but they appropriated the court customs of both the Byzantines and the Persians, and had a culture much more refined than any of their neighbors.
A lot like China and Japan, the Ottomans saw Europeans as barbarians until far too late. Turkey is doing fine these days, but it would probably be stronger if the Ottomans had more quickly adopter secularism and joined the European club.
>>53844189 Wurstwurst hallo ich hätte gerne eine Currywurst mit extra viel Mayo oh nein das ist zu viel Mayo könnten sie mir eine neue Currywurst braten danke aber diesmal bitte extra viel curry ja heheheje
>>53841551 Ottoman soldiers raped like crazy, but so did Christian Balkan soldiers. AFAIK, the Greek and Bulgarian armies were actually more lecherous due to their comparative lack of discipline and oversight.
You guys were more into kidnapping and sexual slave-marriage.
>roman aquilla, that two headed eagle thingie, has two heads >one head for the church, one for the state >this symbolizes separation of the church and the state (something mudslimes never figured out) >therefore turkey cant be roman empire, the head stands for the God not lalah or some other desert bandit
THE HIGHEST MORAL VIRTUE A MAN CAN ACHIEVE IS THE SERBIAN ULTRA NATIONALISM, THE TRUE INHERITOR OF ROME
>>53843353 >>53843451 >>53843520 >>53843576 It doesn't make much sense to burn something you conquered either. They could have looted the place. Instead Turks got nothing and had to rebuilt everything from scratch. And considering Greeks had a history of burning towns, I'm not sure who I'd believe.
>>53845499 Nigga their language and culture was forbbiden for severale centuries
>>53845521 >doesn't understand the concept of methaporic exaggerations Ok, come to Germany and see the rest of your diaspora, Turanist Literally praying 5 times a day and waving the black flags of Khorasan
yeah, the shitstorm actually began at republic era. it was because of forced nationalism and it was an unnecessary shit even i hate k*rds. there are good sides and bad sides of ataturk, one of those bad sides was forcing nationalism to an ex empire. he probably did that to unite people, but it backfired badly.
>>53845632 >turanist >literally praying five times a day
i am not a turanist and there is nothing wrong with praying five times a day considering that's a requirement in islam.
you don't know dick about the political nature of nationalism and islamism in turkey, why did it gain support in the first place and by pointing out how many times a muslim prays as something bad you have proven that your problem is with islam, which is not a problem shared by turks in general and not even le secular haven izmir or any other politically centeral left alligned cities in turkey considering they are muslims as well.
>>53846140 Nigga I have no problem with Islam or an other religion in generale I just stated that secular people wouldn't take the time to pray 5 times a day and that Turks in Germany are far more strict with their religion I literally heard Turks in my gym that dreamed of Sharia law in Germany
>I literally heard Turks in my gym that dreamed of Sharia law in Germany
more than 90% diasporas got psychological problems im pretty sure of that. just remove them and nothing will be missed. i've met an "almancı" once, after 2 minutes of talk i decided he needs to get shot on sight for sake of humanity.
>>53846573 T*rks and K*rds are equally subhuman and indistinguishable abroad. They are pretty good at distinguishing themselves since they are fiercely patriotic of course. But you'll blame Kurds, then "Anatolians", then "AKP voters" then when you run out of options "alamanci".
the marked place is where you get your immigrants from. only US and straya got immigrants out of this circle. believe whatever you want i dont care, this is the truth. and i don't blame anyone. you should be the one blaming your country.
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