I am a Jew. Please explain the practical difference between Protestants and Catholics. I know that Catholics follow the Pope, their priests aren't allowed to have sex, and that their churches are much more elaborate. The religions don't seem very dissimilar to me, so why do so many countries make a big deal out of them?
>their churches are much more elaborate
Protestants used to be something like Christian ISIS. They take everything in the Bible literally. That's why you have Creationists and other nutters in America
Catholics worship Virgin Mary and the Saints
Basically Catholicism is heresy and protestantism isn't. Jesus said "Call no man father" and Catholics call their priests "Father" so the whole religion is basically false.
Plus they've done a bunch of shady shit.
They are literally the muslims of Christian religions.
That's the catholics though. All protestant majority countries -> Very high HDI. Many catholic countries -> very low hdi. No catholic countries - Very high hdi
Protestentism is for white people
The spread of religion in Europe is different that in the rest of the world. Mainly because of language and tradition.
You can only analyse the doctrines when you compare them in the New World.
That's my opinion דbh.
Protestants: We are all evil and can never redeem ourselves but Jesus died for ours sins, so that every man can go to heaven if only he genuinely accepts him as his saviour
Catholics: We are all evil but we can redeem ourselves by doing good deeds, including paying money
American Protestantism isn't genuine, it's just a moneymaking circus for the ADHD consumer culture
Luther: Kill the Jew, crusades now!
American "Protestants": I stand with Israel, thank you Jew my greatest ally
The best parts of Germany are catholic though, and Switzerland is like 4th in HDI
Catholics worship the pope, statues and think they can pay their sins off by giving money to the church. They also oppress people, form mafias and are too lazy to work.
Protestants are simple modest hard working people who live by the bible and dont show off too much.
There are thousands upon thousands of Protestant sects
Some of them are the most lite form of Christianity, some of them are the most hard-core
I like that Pope acknowledges evolution, climate change and heliocentrism
>mfw: this is what protestcucks Actually believe
romans did it, jesus was making amok in the temple which was the economic heart of the town among other things(such as saying all other faiths were wrong, a faux pas to the romans) so the jews complained, the romans thought of Christ as a troublemaker, nothing else. The jews that really wanted jesus to go were from a rival tribe to that of jesus(allegedly).
>mfw catholics are sith and prestants are jedi
there are different trends and different breeds of protestantism, some are,
- more pure than Catholics, less corrupt (Luther started the Reformation by publishing his 95 theses against Indulgencies, the fact that the Catholic church were running a business of Forgiveness against money (!) (sic)).
- on the contrary, some think that Catholics are too much into self-sacrifice. Following Max Weber's interpretation, and using a phrase by Milton Friedman, some Protestants tend to think that greed is good (esp. calvinists). It relies on complex debates about freedom, grace and salvation. (but those debates have also existed among catholics, during the catholic reformation, see Jansénistes VS Jésuites)
- other breeds of Protestants have been known for their struggle against absolutist power, esp. in France, that's one of the reasons why they were persecuted in France, afaik.
And you could also say that the Jewish and Catholic religions are not so dissimilar either. What are the differences?
One could also say that the only similarities is that they refer to the same myths and same books, but everyone is trying to coopt those myths to push their own agenda (on politics, money, sex etc)
the difference is this:
Protestants where born to Protestant parents
Catholics where born to Catholic parents
that explains 99.9% of all cases
>they forget that Old Testament is meant for the Jews above all
Catholics have also had a growing interest in the Old Testament since Vatican II council.
Madness. Only losers and sufferers will be saved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCdBc5uByFQ
We abolished the ceremonial jewish laws because we became international and because the Messiah happened.
Catholics and Orthodox are sorta between conservative and orthodox.
Protestants are karaites.
>mfw an obvious american protty says "le deus volt" or calls for a "crusade"
I'd like to note that this is voted as a top 3 book in Dutch literature.
>Implying we aren't canonically the best thing to ever happen to catholicism
In France, you don't really get to choose (anymore) between being liberal or orthodox. ~Every white is Catholic.
From what I've seen, no Catholic really believes in God anymore, it's just about networking, esp. in charity business meetings. Mostly rich people, conservative about the family money, not so much about values.
I and many French people tend to see them as the biggest hypocrites, not quite the image of the Orthodox Jew who's really ascetic.
But yes, some people say that French people feel more guilty about having money.
For example, on French dating sites, you will never see a field for the person's income. It's seen as disgusting. And it did freak me out when I saw such a field on American websites.
If the definition of God is someone who loves me and sees my good deeds, then hell yeah, I believe in God.
Yeah. They may have started out correctly, as they were headed by leaders who saw the mass corruption in the Catholic church, but when they wanted to split off from the church instead of try to have a real movement for change, they became the degenerate group that would spawn the shit ton of Christians that we have today.
The VOC (Dutch east india trading company) was much larger than Shell. They were the wealthiest company that has ever existed.
They pretty much owned Indonesia. And had their own military to defend it. Or wage war to expand it.
>practical difference between Protestants and Catholics
Practically none today. Protestants used to be against the Church because it was basically a power-grabbing organization running a monopoly on several aspects of human life and getting paid pretty penny for it.
But separation of Church and State kinda fucked the Catholics in this regard so the difference now is mostly cosmetic. Protestants have more different weird heresy-tier sects because once you deny the authority, it's easier to it again. Not to mention most Protestants don't even have any central authority to go against.
if you are gay, as what i've seen:
>being gay is wrong you have to try to change
>you are devil you will go to hell i hate you
literally every protestant in this map are all cucks and full of muslim
Having grown up knowing Catholicism, their Masses are more or less the same thing every Sunday. You have a few songs, readings from the Scriptures, donation box passed around, Eucharist, and so on. I don't recall full details since it has been years since I last went to one, but that's mostly how they do things on a weekly basis.
Now as for Protestants, or at least what I think was one, and I could be mistaken. I went along with my friends to a Church that called themselves the Central Christian Church - and their Masses, if you can call it that, were more about feel-good things. Their whole spiel was that anyone was welcome to join regardless of their background, and was outwardly very accepting. They don't use as much symbolism as the Catholic churches I attended, the most I saw was a Holy Cross by the front. The rest felt like going to a concert or so, because they had this live band playing songs, some guy would read passages, and then they would play testimonial-like videos about people who got through tough situations with faith and prayer.
I don't know if what I witnessed was a Protestant church or not, but it felt very foreign to me.
I watched 2 minutes, thanks!
My theory is that Religion and Philosophy is like Apple Macintosh and PC.
Orthodox : Apple.
Freedom : PC.
Compared to philosophers, religions, esp. Orthodox religions, have a better design, it's more simple, there are less debates.
Philosophy = Protestants = PC (esp. Linux) : this is the most creative part of society. When an idea is good, the Pope (Steve Pope Jobs) puts a label on it, finds a phrase in the Bible to pretend it was always there.
This is a deep thought that occured to me after turning 30.
I meditated a lot.
I thought Catholics were stupid, but when you read Vatican 2 bulles and encycliques, you realize that theologists are very heavy readers of contemporary philosophy.
Contemporary philosophy is very anarchic.
In the church, they read all the new things, then they have long debates, and they eventually decide what the white man should think, in the face of the modern discoveries, that philosophers have already interpreted for them.
I thought they were stupid, but if you want to be an honest man, rather than getting lost in the billions of pages of current and ancient philosophy, you might as well read the current theologists (a friend introduced me, I already forgot the names), it's like choosing Apple over PC, because even though there's less freedom and slower updates, it works, it's made into a whole that is consistent.
And the things about Jesus and Mary etc, and God, well, it's only for children.
I know I might sound stupid, but I used to think that religionfags were stupid and totally unaware of the modern issues.
>Catholics believe in charitable works
>believe in donating to the church so they can do charitable works, thus contributing to charity
>protestants actually don't believe in charity to begin with
>Catholics: We are all evil but we can redeem ourselves by doing good deeds, including paying money
We are good but can do evil (sin), but Jesus died for our sins so our original sin is cleaned via baptism and our sins can be sort of forgiven via confession. The 'sort of' is the tricky thing here.
Voila le catholicism.
>protestant belief is. you will go to hell if you fuck men in the arse
No. If you are born-again, that wouldn't send you to hell(of course, if you were really touched by God, you wouldn't be sodomising men, but that's a theological discussion for another time).
Solomon was pretty cool, imo. Had bitches and cash and considered those unsatisfying.
Linux would be protestantism, imo.
It's all ok as long as you follow the POSIX architecture.
Catholicism or Orthodoxy would be .
Windows or some closed sorced Unix, like OSX, sorta.
Then you groups like Anglicanism being unified kernel and the Restoration movement being ReactOS.
Man, this original sin is really one of the shitty parts of Christianity due how incredibly obvious marketing ploy it is. "You're a piece of shit by default but hey,if you start believing in our fancy offshoot of Judaism, you can be saved"
It's a meme i learned from /christian/, off infinity chan.
Basically, everything that unites the traditional churches(Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental, etc.) in worship and makes them different from protestantism.
>the pentarchy will never be restored
Catholicism and Orthodoxy are more close to each other theologically than to Protestantism.
Which is basically a lot of retarded deviations covering up the central core of their "theology": we no want to pay no moneys.
ah okay. the thing about gay buttsex is that in my version of protestant church (i used to be a pentecost ayy lmao
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecostalism), even if you've been baptised, you'll go to hell if you're a sinner. it's pretty retarded and a really hardcore version of Christianity
protestantism is so much more than that, famille. it started off really well but now it's just retarded
Catholics like to worship Virgin Mary and forget about the fact that God forbid people to build statues and shit, since it's idolatry. Also,catholic masses are always the same.
Protestants are too radical sometimes but in general they take their religion more seriously (at least here)
>Their churches are much more elaborate
>inb4 hunchback house
>inb4 Spanish erector set construction project
>inb4 Vatican City capital building/fine art museum/royal palace
>Catholic churches are charity
>Catholics are charitable
Oh silly anon.
For real though most protestants I know are pretty decent people whose religion doesn't fully dictate their life and who can be charitable but aren't forced to do so by some money-raking church. Then of course you have Calvinists and other extreme protestant views which are even worse than Eastern Orthodox people.
This is overgeneralizing.
The Swedish state church was just as oppressive and dogmatic as the Catholic church, it was a pure power play to adopt protestantism. The king at the time gave zero fucks about the tenets he just wanted church gold. The situation was similar in most countries who adopted protestantism.
The nutjobs in America are descendants of people who were persecuted by their respective state churches. The state churches just simply walked in in place of the catholic church and decreed "believe this". Protestantism and a whole was not so very different from catholicism in that aspect.
I wouldn't be so certain.
The Joint Commision is making great progress.
Agreements on all 3 sides(+the Catholic-Church of the East Eucharistic document) have come to agree that the Christology is the same(or Chalcedon was right), and that the Pope was the protos.
Now it's getting bogged down on what the responsibilities of the Pope being the head (kephale) of the Church are.
But i have hope we will succeed in the near future.
Latest common document is this, which is a schizophrenic mess for now, but atleast it's a starting point:
They would have gotten nowhere if not for people like the German lords, the kings of England, Denmark, Sweden etc being butthurt about the power of the pope and jelly of church wealth.
> Protestants used to be against the Church because it was basically a power-grabbing organization running a monopoly on several aspects of human life and getting paid pretty penny for it.
Funny thing is that is exactly what all the protestant state churches after the reformation turned into anyway.
This sounds very American protestantism to me.
Here in our church is still pretty rigid. You sing some old ass hymns, listen to todays bible texts, priest preaches the meaning of the texts, sing more hymns, take the eucharist,say prayers of thanks, lord's prayer etc, another hymn, done.
Same thing every sunday ever pretty much.
With the addition that it was about expropiating, nationalizing and privatizing the Church of each and every country, and fuck the universal christian unity lol.
Yeah, that's what I grew up with in the Catholic churches here in America, and what I am used to. The Protestant one I visited, as I said before, seemed very foreign to me in how they handled things. There was something offputting about it to me, though I can't place what.
>they wanted to split off from the church instead of try to have a real movement for change
You know what happened when Jan Hus tried to change the church and have a debate on the matter? He got burned at the stake. It's not really surprising the following guys didn't want to end like that.
Yes. Gotta get them sweet golds for muh army and muh fleet.
Yes, gotta get that indoctrination-machine rolling.
Nope, they just exchanged the pope for the king. Atleast that how it was done here.
The Swedish reformation was 100 % due to our king wanting to tax and control the church. None of the people wanted it(though most didn't really care until they started melting down church gold and bells to pay for troops).
I still prefer a national institution over some Italian institution.
That's interesting. What's the reason for it?
Do you guys eat only the bread or do you drink the wine too? I heard in catholicism only the priest drinks the wine.
>In 2002 the North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation issued a statement that the Filioque ought not be a Church dividing issue(stuff's not binding, but hey, it's a start)
Besides, do you really think we on both sides won't quickly reach an agreement after we finally figure out what's the deal with Rome's primacy?
Protestant is a term that covers many groups that are very different, with the main similarity being that (most) of the churches don't follow the pope and (most) of the churches came out of the Protestant Reformation era as a revolt against papal authority. Protestants are (all) filthy fucking heretics though.
no, the Protestant Reformation actually was a bit conservative in nature. They favored a strict interpretation of the Bible while Catholics had a very loose interpretation.
Orthodox = Orthodox Jews
Protestants (most) = Conservative Jews
Catholics (as well as some protestants like Anglicans) = Reform Jews
Truly glorious but that peace paved the way for so much of the bullshit of the modern world.
Everything would have been so much better if Gustaf Adolf lived to become Emperor himself.
The Lord has chosen to test my faith with sketchy internet connectivity. Mea culpa papistbros
We do both. The way they have it is everyone forms a line, we go up to the priest, he hands you the bread (if you can call that tasteless wafer a piece of bread), says "The Body of Christ," you take it and eat it while saying "Amen", then move on down towards someone else who will give you a sip of the wine while saying, "The Blood of Christ," and then you move back to your seat.
>mfw on mission trips our youth director would threaten to "go Pentecostal on us" if we did something really, REALLY bad that made the church look bad (having sex, stealing, etc)
>mfw she would also use that phrase for spasing out or throwing a tantrum
I think it stems from the speaking in tongues, what the fuck.
P.S. Presbyterianism is pretty based
Yes, but the French say that about everything that isn't French and most things that are French when foreigners aren't around.
It is, Latter Day Saints are Protestants too
>It is, Latter Day Saints are Protestants too
only in name. they believe in the book of mormon more than the bible and beleive in american space jesus instead of the established canon.
Nice defence but the one I posted is german
>Mormons are protestants
Mormons are something else entirely, like what the fuck are they even Christian.
I saw the Duomo in Florence, it was amazing and the best church I've ever seen.
>the one I posted is German
As is part of France Tbh
The Bible is equal to the other testaments, not beneath them, and there is nothing in the Mormon belief system that is anymore fantastical than regular Christianity.
Jesus coming and preaching to the people of the Americas before transcending is every bit as likely as a man living inside a big fish.
Yes, LDS is a Protestant Christain denomination
I'd say the Vatican is more impressive but yeah Florence is pretty great too
Yeah, I said "PC" as a broad term to represent freedom, of course Windows as a closed system would have to represent a closed doctrine like Roman Catholicism.
It would be interesting to compare the beliefs of Windows, Apple and Linux users.
I've tried to use both Windows and Linux on a laptop, trying to be ecumenical, but it's over now with the last 10 update : big fish eats the little one.
Also, we could draw parallels with fascism. Roman Catholics = Windows = Macht = Fascism. No choice, but it gets things done!
I'm surprised that this is actually a thing.
Almost all Protestants in Europe are very moderate, comperable to Reform Jews, but there are many Protestant sects in the USA who are totally retarded.
Actually the 'Pilgrims' who left the UK because they wanted religious freedom did so because the UK banned burning witches and that 'hurt' their religious freedom. So mostly American Protestants are quite different to their European counterparts.
Europeans are soft fucks. If you continued the witch burning do you think you'd have a Muslim problem now?
Yeah, despite that animated documentary on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, it's not exactly like that.
I think what bothers people the most is the baptisms for the dead.
yeah they mostly work at factories here, a lot of the blue collar workers are Turks.
we virtually have no unemployment, the lowest youth unemployment in all of Europe and also the highest ratio of GDP invested into R&D in Europe because we have so many world market leaders in our state. a good part of the catholics here are from Italy as they came as guest labourers, same as the Turks.
Protestants = Messianic Jews
Baptists = Reform Jews
Catholics = Conservative Jews
Anabaptists = Orthodox Jews (some sects and denominations can be very penguinish)
Orthodox = Karaite Jews
Assyrian = Samaritans
Mormons, JW = Reconstructionist Jews
tfw no catholic gf
https://youtu.be/DHU1A9XTaOg (catholic humor, in french)
>Jesus coming and preaching to the people of the Americas before transcending is every bit as likely as a man living inside a big fish.
But real christians (read catholics) do not believe that Jonas really lived inside a fish.
>treat the Bible like a Bibliothèque
>Daring to commit heresy and assume the Bible could be a collection if books containing, tribal legends, history, philosophy, letters, poetry, fortune-telling, allegory, &c.
>The absolute blasphemous madmen
Trying much too hard to sound cool...
"Keep cool and trust God!"
If I wanted to pass as a moral leader, I wouldn't go out of my way to try to sound as cool as the lobotomized youth.
Catholics are really the biggest fakes.
Why do Christians generally have this weird idea that they're supposed to derive belief and practice from the bible as a primary source? The bible is completely useless without some oral tradition along with it.
Just think about it, before the bible was written down, it had to be an oral legend, right? I mean, it was at least written 2500 years ago (the 5 Books of Moses) and some say as early as 3000 years ago. Now, think of when it was written. It was written when 2 or 3 dudes knew how could write and that's about it. All the mythos from these times were originally oral legends later written down by different authors (e.g. Illiad & Odyssey, various Egyptian and Babylonian stories, et cetera).
To have an oral legend means to present the story verbatim, but to also be aware of the audience you're giving it to (so you change some words to help fit the vocabulary and understanding of the people).
But now, thousands of years after the oral legends are written down and compiled into a single document, Christians come around thinking that the written word is all that matters. I can never understand how they think this way.
Catholic Church was founded by Jesus in ~34 AD (since 1 AD=Jesus' birth, 1+33 is 34).
Protestant churches were founded by some dude and arbitrarily say that anything not written in the Bible is false. Also they cut out an entire book of the Bible because they are degenerate heretics.
Retarded reason to kill each other. The Byzantines could have held off the t*rks had it not been for the crusaders fucking them in the ass.
Wordlwide day of the Migrant and the Refugee : Towards a better world.
They don't. The bible is not definitive or absolute. It is written by man, and not protected by god. Further, the messiah never said "lol this is 4ever guys dont change anything" like Muhammed did.
This openness to interpretation has given rise to fuckloads of offshoots to Christianity and various cults and sects, including the more comfy western new spiritual feel good build-a-bible Christianity where people just ignore the 'bad' parts.
wut? The official excuse was that they were orthodox and the catholic crusaders wanted them gone.
Which in the end lead to the Christian middle east getting BLACKED and converted to islam.
>Why do Christians generally have this weird idea that they're supposed to derive belief and practice from the bible as a primary source?
You know we aren't all protestant, right?
>The bible is completely useless without some oral tradition along with it.
>But now, thousands of years after the oral legends are written down and compiled into a single document, Christians come around thinking that the written word is all that matters.
Protestants, not Christians. We even have books like Eusebius's Church History that tells us how the bible canon was compiled.
Hint: Even at that time, there was controversy over a lot of books. We sorted that at Carthage, in 390 AD.
>I can never understand how they think this way.
Neither can i.
>The official excuse was that they were orthodox and the catholic crusaders wanted them gone.
Actually the excuse was "Venice asked us for it, as payment for transporting us to the holy land"
>Christians come around thinking that the written word is all that matters.
By free association, this reminds me of one of the most "spiritual" experiences I've ever had : To see an adaptation (one man on stage) of the Letter to the Father (Brief an den Vater) by Kafka.
It's related, because the guy knew the whole book by heart!
It was as powerful as Beth praying in Breaking the Waves.
God! Why? WHY!?
I was in a transe.
I don't know when the written tradition acquired more prestige than the spoken.
At least now we have 50 Cent.
Catholics arguably have a pretty good traditional understanding of the New Testament, but isn't their text of the Old Testament a translation of a translation? I mean, since most early Catholics were converts (after the Apostles), they weren't able to readily deliver the oral tradition as well as the written one (since it had been translated into Greek, and then into Latin).
How do Catholics reconcile that their oral tradition for the Old Testament is essentially very limited in the sense that it draws only on the wisdom of a few Apostles and Jesus? Considering the fact that, by the time of Jesus, Jews were already as far West as Morocco and as far East as Persia and even India.
a pretender offered to pay them a ludicrous sum of money and pay off their debt to the Venetians if they captured Constantinople for him. After they succeeded he refused to pay up so they sacked Constantinople again and then divided the Empire's European lands up as their own fiefdoms
Huh... But the pope forbade it and many crusaders refused to take part in the battle. But still I am surprised this happened.
Indeed. Until this point I thought they accepted due to the fact the empire was orthodox, but apparently the crusaders had waged war on other Catholics before.
Arguably, depending on interpretation of course.
Well at least one can grant the Protestants the desire to educate the people.
They invented the catechism, for Chrissake.
By the 16th century, Catholic mass, afaik, had become very mystical : songs in latin, memes that nobody understood (this is my blood, the cross sign, etc)
I guess religious practice has to find a good balance between too complex, and too much OCD (aka rituals).
>Indeed. Until this point I thought they accepted due to the fact the empire was orthodox, but apparently the crusaders had waged war on other Catholics before.
it's certainly possible that the fact that they were Orthodox was why they thought it was acceptable, but they didn't do it simply because the Byzantines were Orthodox
Stevie Wonder cover
>Unclean minds mislead the pure
>The innocents will leave for sure
>For them there is a resting place
>People sinning just for fun
>They will never see the sun
>For they can never show their faces
>Their ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
>Who will take more than he will get
>He ain't hardly gonna give
For some retarded reason.
Before the 20th century, we had orthodoxy, a bit of catholicism and greek-catholicism, old believers, armenians, jews and some reformed guys.
But nooo, who needs millenia-old rites from churches literally founded by the apostles when we now have american style pastors and other neo-protestant faggots as a distinct minority.
Look at how they raped "Christ has risen from the dead":
This is the original:
world youth days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Youth_Day
>how they raped "Christ has risen from the dead"
yeah, it's obviously a massacre.
Is the real one Gregorian? It's beautiful.
As someone who's had zero religious education (mother wanted to free me from that, father was an atheist scientist), I'd guess I'd be more easily attracted to more modern rites/lithurgy.
I live in the city, it would be easy to try and compare. One day, maybe.
>I live in the city, it would be easy to try and compare. One day, maybe.
I really want to experience more rites.
Too bad i live in the middle of eastern Europe and the only rites i can participate in is the byzantine one.
Ok, there's a latin church in my church, but i'm bound by canonical law, so no latin mass for me...(and i'm not even sure it's the tridentine one, but it possibly is)
Seriously, look at how cool this stuff is:
(warning: Novus Ordo bashing in the video)
But a liturgy is valid regardless of rite, and i'm fortunate to even see other liturgies on youtube, as opposed to centuries of older christians.
west syriac rite reminded me of Greece. Funny how my parents are atheists, but on vacation abroad, they constantly wanted to visit churches.
I discovered this on TV... https://youtu.be/KQE4ryqdvMg?t=21
more traditional version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTUfVJTyNQ8
All the Jew OP had to do was ask a simple question and people who should be united against Islam right now, started arguing for 6 hours and counting. Classic Jewry Tbh
>Europeans are soft fucks.
Go on vacations in Eastern Europe. Tell some random tracksuit wearing fellow what a softie he is.
Hell, send me money for a ticket. I can come over and give you a simulation of what would happen, I like to travel.