pulju was 13 when he moved away from his parents to live alone in another city and everyone was ok with it
why are nordics on another level when it comes to moving away from home?
I moved at 18 to go to college, it's considered normal.
But studies show for example that, at least in France, parents don't send their children to holiday camps as before.
In the 50's, millions of kids as young as 8y/o would spend one month without their parents, now it's only a few thousands, only after 14y/o.
Probably the effect of the pedo hysteria. Mommy's gonna keep baby safe at home.
Yeah I heard that in southern europe it's worse. Maybe because moving out requires money.
looks like france is one of the more civilized countries in mainland europe
this map would indicate that even though sweden catches up and denmark even surpasses by the age 25 finland really is ahead of the game when it comes to moving out at 18 or before 18
28 and live with parents
My cat is in love with my dad (and vice versa), I'm mentally ill (and hooked on opiates), too poor to live on my own (work IT for 10 dollars an hour), and I like shade gardening so my parents big house/property is great for that, while an apartment in the ghetto would not
i don't know about other places, but estonia, sweden and ireland are pretty fucked in the real estate department... prices are absurdly high so to get your own place takes a shitload of time to save up even for a basic loan for a shitty place
I had all that for 5 years, my parents wanted me to move back in with them, and I'm glad I did since I get to spend more time with them now. The girl I'm seeing has her own place, so it's a win-win.
Degree in international relations
No I work for a public school system, they do coursework, homework and testing on computers now, and students all own laptops and old ipads. Mostly charging, maintaining and fixing student laptops and trying to manage the horrid proprietary school software
>You'd be more independent
no slaves who wash your clothes
no slaves who pay electro-, water- and heating bills
no slaves who make food for you
>you'd have some privacy
Shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't a creep.
>your parents could finally live their lives
Life ends with the birth of the first child.
>no slaves who wash your clothes
>no slaves who pay electro-, water- and heating bills
>no slaves who make food for you
Cooking is great
>Shouldn't be a problem as long as you aren't a creep.
>Life ends with the birth of the first child
Yeah if the child is a loser who doesn't move out before he's 20
We should think about breeding them in laboratories. The female refugees could be parents of like 5-10 children while the men should do the simple works for the higher (white) class.
I did you faggot. I could press the start button of a washing machine and pay others with my credit card if I had to.
>Cooking is great
It is but we live in the 21st century where you just need a microwaver for a whole meal. Why should I waste my lifetime on cooking, if there is a woman that makes it for free?
Who needs that much privacy? Don't you have a room for yourself? I don't have something to hide.
>Yeah if the child is a loser who doesn't move out before he's 20
You are a loser for not having slaves.
>there's really no point in moving out if you're not married.
>Why should I waste my lifetime on cooking
You can cook for an hour and live with that for three days
>if there is a woman that makes it for free?
Get a gf to your own house
>Who needs that much privacy?
>Don't you have a room for yourself?
Sure I had, but a whole apartment is still better
>You are a loser for not having slaves
Nice edgy my family and friends are slaves joke, again
Based on that you're studying to your high school exams at best
elementary school = live with parents
middle school = live with parents
high school = either live with parents or move if there's some specialty (sports, theatre, science etc.) that requires moving
college = move out instantly
this is pretty much how it goes for everyone
50/50 between moving out right after high school or waiting to find out where you'll go to college
I do and it feels good.
>You can cook for an hour and live with that for three days
She cooks goat tier food for hours and I eat it in three minutes.
>Get a gf to your own house
top kek, find a Eurogirl that does something for the household.
I don't need more privacy. Nobody comes to my room if I want to be alone.
>Sure I had, but a whole apartment is still better
>giving up the advantage of living in a house to live as a subhuman in a flat that is smaller than your toilet room
Next you are saying that a stinky public park is better than a nice garden.
>Based on that you're studying to your high school exams at best
I'm at my 5th semester
I spent a week with my parents and sisters around christmas. We get along well etc. it's pretty much the ideal white family with no issues but I could never do that around the year. Do people in other countries even look forward to becoming of age if you don't even move out? What's the point of "becoming an adult" if you still live with your parents?
How do you even meet some new people if you are living with your parents instead of on campus?
It's fucking nothing, im lending as much as possible since the interest is so low and you only need to pay back 60% of the loan
student loans backed by the government with basically 0% interest and endless time to pay but yeah, most people do opt for the loan even with studentbux
the money is so cheap I know people who take the maximum loan every semester because putting it into even the safest investment will make more money than the loan has interest
>thinking education is free
How do taxes work
given the circumstances it's fair to say that you also live in your own room with all expenses taken care for you, just that: your room is physically remote from your home
there really isn't much to brag about if you're being honest, though i jelly the social welfare system you have going on, if i were finnish i'd leech the shit out of it too ;)
>I don't need more privacy. Nobody comes to my room if I want to be alone.
literally high school tier thoughts. there's the "I can wank in peace if I'm quiet" privacy and then there's the "I live alone and can do whatever I want without disturbing anyone" privacy.
>I know people who take the maximum loan every semester because putting it into even the safest investment will make more money than the loan has interest
why am i not this smart? or brave?
>thinking you have to pay back student loan from neetbux
did you even read the papers you signed?
in finland using the government systems designed for the purpose of supporting a student through school or a young person to live independently isn't "leeching". it's the system working as intended
i did that one year, it's called arbitrage, but the returns were quite low... still some free money for nothing other than a few clicks in internet bank felt good :D
but it doesn't really count much as a personal achievement does it if you're "enabled" haha got to use that term xDD
I don't know I don't do it myself. These are people who have enough money saved up or work on the side and don't need the loan but take it anyway because it's what they call "free money". I'm guessing some spread investments like a rahasto or something but like I said I don't do it myself
>have the welfare state pay for your schooling
>have the welfare state pay for your housing
>have the welfare state pay for your healthcare
>have the welfare state pay for your food
yeah that's what I'm thinking too
in nordic countries moving out is the definitive mark of adulthood. it's like a ritual. do people in other countries think their adults while their mum cooks and cleans for them?
>do you consider estonia a non-white non-civilized nation?
hmmm... t. other finn
Damn, OP just made me realize how modern life has ruined my life...
>Have bad parents but not psycho-bad
>18y/o : normal age to move out to study in the nearest city. Parents or scholarship for the poor pay the rent (in my case, parents)
>Studies don't turn out as they should, no job and parents stop paying the rent
>Go back home after 6 years
>I've changed, won't take their shit as much as before, so they throw me out
>Have to go live with grandmother, in a still more secluded place, with no job market at all
It all makes sense now.
Take the teens from home, bait them with freedom and dreams of high professional success. It works for some, but for the other half, they eventually have to either
- try to go back home after 5+ years (see above)
- start life with part-time minimum wage AND a *city* rent to pay *alone*, and endure alone-ness (unless they find roommates)
It's not bad luck, it's designed evil. Call it excessive "individual responsability" or whatever, all I know is that without this pressure to leave the family *before* having professional skills and a steady job (career), there would be less homeless people.
Once you have left once, coming back is almost impossible (unless you have very, very nice parents)
Once you are alone, with a city rent to pay, working at mc donald's for minimum wage, you know you have no future, because you can save zero per month.
"hey guys have you noticed how in countries that manage their affairs well it's not a personal achievement to move out from parents house before age 20?"
"YOU HAVEN'T EARNED IT THAT'S NOT AN ACHIEVEMENT"
great reading comprehension and inferiority complex tbqh
student apartment is like 300
food is like 200 if you eat really cheap, 300 if ok
student aid is like 450
free loan is 300/mo IIRC
go to social sevices if you simply can't make ends meet to get "being poor money" where the only requirement is being poor
Not him but I pay 300€ in rent, ~200€ for food/alcohol and 100€ for everything else.
I could easily live on the government money which is 530€/month but I take full student loan as well because of the low rent.
>What's the point of "becoming an adult" if you still live with your parents?
My mother would do the same stuff at home, even if I wasn't there. I just enjoy the easy life as long as possible.
I live better than a medival king. Give me a good reason to give that up and start a life as a poor student.
I don't know, maybe by just talking with them at uni?
>your own room which is way smaller than a shitty flat
They are almost of the same size here and they are expensive, too. Which sane person would pay a shit-load of money to live in a small, cold cage?
>I live alone and can do whatever I want without disturbing anyone
Awesome things you could do when you live alone and where nobody would disturb you:
I want to invest my money, what about you poorfag?
well then why the fuck are you saying 406 which is close to studentbux?
if you're not a student you can easily milk the welfare system for 1000€ if you include the rent and utilities they pay for directly. students get much less than neets
>people voluntarily want to pay for shit they can get for free
>people voluntarily deny themselves tasty homemade cooking
>people voluntarily deny themselves day-to-day contact with their family
while the welfare system does need some adjustments (that they are testing out already) it's got nothing to do with why the economy went to shit
taxation of businesses and cost of running a business was probably the biggest issue
>tfw mentally ill mother who'll probably kill herself if I move out
>tfw being trapped in this shit tier flat
hmm... maybe a little better. it's just that, here, if you're a full time student your workload in school is quite dank so having a job is like... exhausting and shit... you wont get much sleep etc.
of course there are people who manage that, but not stemtards... never
drink beer with friends regardless of what time it is
brew your own alcohol or grow weed if that's what you're into
watch movies on high volume without wondering if your parents are bothered
sleep during the day and stay up all night if that's what you feel like doing
I really shouldn't have to explain to you the things one can do if left alone. Have your parents never left on a vacation with just the two of them and left you home alone? It's like that but always.
>triggered child admits he will never see his family if he doesn't live with them
why do you hate your family so much that you wouldn't visit them or eat out with them? Also here people actually get paid for working, you do know what work is, right?
>eat shitty ramen noodles erryday
I cook 5-6 days a week. Boiling noodles or heating microwave dinners is not cooking. Because we don't live with our mum until 30 finnish youth actually learns to cook regardless of gender.
My 1st year outside the nest (alone), I was in prep school, and suicidal.
Then I quit at the end of the year, to go to Uni, where I was reunited with all my friends from high school.
They all felt lost, like me (esp. those who were studying Law) : everyday we would get high on weed and get shitfaced on alcohol.
Free Uni in France is an awful experience : One teacher for 300 students (often, he's not even there, he's in the USA for a Conference tour), nobody cares about you. There's a different system for the priviledged and the merit-kids called Grandes Écoles, and in Uni aka "Fac", priviledge is still more determining : without any guidance, only the priviledged survive.
All my friends were from poor families who never went to Uni, and when we ended up in free Uni, we would sign oathes to change and apply ourselves more, but the next day we would get shitfaced again. Not because we didn't care about the future, but because we were lost and terrified.
Maybe one day I'll get published and paid for these rants. Thanks for your attention.
you know.. you say these things like: study more efficiently and it's all about time management... and it all sounds absolutely reasonable, but at the same time, it all sounds like you're 100% full of shit
I was a cool normie back then when I was younger and could party on our own ground. Many people here have small huts, maybe similar to small saunas in Finland. My mom isn't mudslim, so she was ok with that. I think all that alcohol and food was more expensive than your whole monthly life. (I had to finance that by myself). Do you think that your bathtub is superior to our outdoor pool?
>watch movies on high volume without wondering if your parents are bothered
Enjoy the fist of your neighbour on your face or the police, knocking on you door.
>sleep during the day and stay up all night if that's what you feel like doing
How is that a problem if you live with your parents?
we don't have a distinction between free uni and paid uni. AFAIK there is not a single university level school in finland that isn't free. so there is no distinction between poor and rich kids. having separate poor kid schools does sound terrible
>tfw 25 years old
>mfw work at my parents home
>mfy my moms cooks for me all the time and still takes care of me
life is good .
>I think all that alcohol and food was more expensive than your whole monthly life
>german NEET claims to have parties that cost over 1000e, at his parents house
>and that he paid for it without working
i absolutely could, but none of the employers want a worker who puts in such a small effort.. unless you work at a bar or something which is not very demanding
like... my work now... i probably spend that amount just sitting through meetings and doing things that have little to do with what i'm supposed to be doing
>mfw all these people that are okay with living with their parents after a certain point
I honestly cannot understand how people can like living with their parents once they're older than about 20. I lived with my dad until I was 28 because I couldn't afford to leave and I fucking hated it, even though my dad is a good person.
>Enjoy the fist of your neighbour on your face or the police, knocking on you door.
Germany sounds horrible
>How is that a problem if you live with your parents?
Some parents care about their children's well being but I guess it's no use explaining what maternal love is to a German
i go to the top2 school in finland. my parents are well off (both make 6 figures) and the best friend I've made from school comes from a family of unemployed single parent high up in rural north.
we both live in similiar appartments. we go to same classes. we go to same student parties. neither feels lost because there are hundreds of other students who all feel connected by simply being students. there is no class difference between us. we're all students regardless of our background.
such is life in socialist finland
i'm in embedded and i get 1500.. i'm quite well off in terms of life in estonian capital to be honest
the guys who get 3000 are not programmers, but software architects and people who manage programmers..
Pic related is what I use to hear music. Loud music is for the lower class.
As for the second part, I don't have the wish to sleep at day and stay up at night.
Just admit that you live a shitty life.
It's a bit more complex TTYTT (to tell you the truth).
Some of the most prestigious Grandes Écoles are free, but in the end, 90% of the students come from the elite classes.
I just wanted to be a teacher, but when you've never had a gf and think you'll never have one, you, meaning I, couldn't concentrate.
I really hate to whine (I do), but the thread is interesting.
It's weird how so much money goes to give better skills and more opportunities, but in the end, if you don't end up with the right degree at the right moment, you suddenly can't pay the rent anymore, I know there are dozens of "punks" where I live, i.e. homeless youth wearing black and living with dogs. meh.
It's great, man.
Have you hear of Pierre Bourdieu? That's the sociologist who exposed the failure of the so called equalitarian french system.
But I too used to have friends who picked the right subject (science and technology VS Law), and when they saw all the money coming, they were amazed at the beauty of life...
It works, for some.
I'm pretty fucked up anyway, but seeing a paper comparing french and finland systems objectively would be nice.
Pic related is similar to what I use to watch movies
And even if you don't want to do some shit you're still restricted
Just admit you're living a shitty life
yes I know Bourdieu by name but I really haven't examined he's work deeper than some extremely basic summaries on the internet
>but in the end, if you don't end up with the right degree at the right moment, you suddenly can't pay the rent anymore
that's what I like about european welfare systems even if it is true they sometime "allow for failure". you can take risks. want to become an archeologist? everyone telling you it's a bad career path but you're simply interested? go for it. worst case scenario you'll still have your dignity living halfway decently on neetbux
You are like an African-American negro who defends his life style in the ghetto.
it's not sleeping all day and staying up every night. it's the freedom to do so if you suddenly wish to for whatever reason without having to explain it to anyone
>Enjoy the fist of your neighbour on your face or the police, knocking on you door.
I don't know where you live but where I live we have solid brick walls blocking all noise from neighbours
it's his last name (puljujärvi). his first name is Jesse
>Jesse /ˈdʒɛs.iː/, Ishai or Yishai (Hebrew: יִשַׁי, Modern Yishay, Tiberian Yīšáy, meaning "God exists" or "God's gift"; Arabic: يَسَّى Yassa; Syriac: ܐܝܫܝ Eshai; Greek: Ἰεσσαί Iessai; Latin: Isai, Jesse)
of course but there are plenty of other countries rich enough to implement one so the question isn't really "how is this one individual from a nordic country able to move out" but "why have these countries prioritized allowing youth to move out while others havent"
But I don't have that wish and my point is that I have enough privacy.
>I don't know where you live but where I live we have solid brick walls blocking all noise from neighbours
A friend of me is a poorfag like you and you can hear the neighbour at pissing.
What is netflix?
What are attention whoring beats headphones?
What is a 1,8k€ Ultrabook?
30qm here but I like to switch the rooms. The kitchen is my favourite place at home.
But you're the only poorfag here you don't even work
>watching movies with a proper sound system is attention whoring
This is the deciding factor that keeps Americans inextricably linked to their parents after 18. Well that and health care. Until you are 24 what you get for college money is 100% based on what you and your parents make. Considering very few people have a decent job at that age (especially as a student) for 6 years people who want to go to college are tied to their parents.
Unless they want to get fucking married or join the military.
The amount of grants and loans you receive does not mater one bit on how much your parents actually pay for your college, but is based only on their income. So many people have parents with decent jobs but are "house poor", or just generally retarded with finances. This makes the way federal aid is given out insane.
>why have these countries prioritized allowing youth to move out while others havent
Boomers in America love to complain about children living with their parents too long, but the most logical thing for most young adults to do is stay on their parents healthcare plan until they are 26.
America likes to go full retard quite a bit
I beg to differ about Neetbux.
You want to die when after failing the Jetfighter career and other things, finally you end up knocking on an "insertion center" door to beg for free money. I did it because my father told me to...
It shouldn't exist. It's worse than slavery. I'm here because I have zero friends, because I live in shame. I seen stories about tough conditions in Foxconn factory in China (factory making the iPhones), it makes me rage, because the story shows that in China, an 18y/o girl can find a steady job with absolutely zero qualification.
All these jobs were outsourced by rich people.
I've applied for the shittest part time jobs, that would barely pay my rent, always no answer... When I find work, it's just for a few weeks.
I'm not stupid, if I was maybe I would already be a murderer. But my brain allows me to name things, so I'll use a word to describe my situation, this word is lack of *investment*.
French gov gives 500€ / month to 25 year olds who live with their parents, they don't need it, for them it's 100% leisure money.
- cut this
- take two struggling people, let one die, and invest in the other, who would get 3 times more.
It's less cruel to pick one person among many, and let the others die, than give 500 to everyone, who are not paid to do nothing, but are paid to become crazy, be alone, and shut their mouths about their jobs which were outsourced in China, Bangladesh etc.
Also, I don't think there's merit in picking the right field (science/technology) : I know a guy who wanted to make a bad choice (study cinema), but his father loved him, so his father forced him to study science, now he's happily employed with wife and children. I wanted to make a bad choice (thinking it was a good one), noone ever questioned it (except once, a friend's father, a working class father, apparently the only adult who felt concern about me once, one day)
I'm tired, good evening.
As for me, I'll make sweet dreams about investment.
My dad spend a lot of money for a huge special produced TV with all that home cinema bullshit, but we barely use it. I prefer to watch movies alone in my bed.
>But you're the only poorfag here you don't even work
t. "free" slave
“Today as always, men fall into two groups: slaves and free men. Whoever does not have two-thirds of his day for himself, is a slave, whatever he may be: a statesman, a businessman, an official, or a scholar.”
>My dad spend a lot of money for a huge special produced TV with all that home cinema bullshit, but we barely use it. I prefer to watch movies alone in my bed.
Welcome to the club man
>I prefer to watch movies alone in my bed.
Yeah, alone is the keyword here
That's probably why you don't mind living with your parents
>that slavery shit
Yeah we call people like you rats
They believe that everyone who works is a sheep. And they don't believe that you can actually enjoy your career
Rats complain how sheep waste their lives working but in reality, rats stay at home because they have absolutely nothing to do with their lives n shit
Nothing wrong with living with your parents. Moved out at 19, but would probably prefer to live with my parents if I could.
If you're studying and plan on moving out, especially in a city with higher living costs like Helsinki, you'll probably have to make some sacrifices. If you don't want to work while studying, you'll either need to share your apartment with 2 or more potentially horrible flatmates, who might have a tendency to do their fucking dishes at 4 am and therefore waking you up, or get a shitty apartment at a shitty location if you actually want to live alone. Alternatively, you can work at the same time, but why would you want to do that?
Washing clothes is a bother. Doing the dishes is a bother. Cooking can be a bother if you need to do it after a busy day. The small amount of extra privacy I get for living on my own isn't really worth it. At least I can get my girlfriend to do all the shit around the house soon enough.
Ok I just reread my post and realized it wouldn't make sense to a foreigner.
Federal aid for student loans and grants is based almost solely on yours and your parents tax returns for the previous year. Expenses, your parents willingness to pay for college, are all not taken into account. This is filled out on what is called a FAFSA.
This fosters a culture among youths aged 18 - graduating college that they are still children because their sole source of money for college is almost entirely based on a factor out of their control (their parents finances the previous year). This can be disastrous if your parents make a decent amount and expect you to be independent (basically you have to go into major debt if you are cucked enough to go to a 4 year college), and if you are getting the money recommended from your parents by the government you are basically a child until you graduate.
Tell me if you have any more questions tbqhf
Being a neet is fucking cancer.
Being a useless part of the society is what makes neets kill themselves.
>this is what wagecucks tell themselves
>“Today as always, men fall into two groups: slaves and free men. Whoever does not have two-thirds of his day for himself, is a slave, whatever he may be: a statesman, a businessman, an official, or a scholar.”
Well, I did the maths once, and believe me, people (in France) lucky enough to have a "full-time" steady job, actually just work one third (1/3) of their waking time. Sure, 7 hours may seem long in a 16 hours day (8 hours sleep), but,
- it's only 5 days a week
- holidays are 5 weeks per year minimum.
As for me, I'm not afraid of being a slave, I just want to work 1/3 like most people. (and last time I found an unsteady job, I accepted all the extra hours. Was fired eventually anyway. I once was a journalist working even on sundays and 11 hours on normal days, it was awesome to hear people complain, "you journalists, you never have time" ! Work = dignity, that's why people love it)
If I wasn't drunk and tired I'd like to ask more questions, because I'm highly interested in this subject. (once I was lucky enough to talk here on /int/ with an American working for the US student loan system)
I'm all for positive discrimination and everything (and equal opportunity policies), we have some of that too, like giving scholarships in proportion to the parents income declaration. Problem is, they have, like you said I think, to rely only on objective data, so they miss the most important. My father was a paranoid asshole dreaming about killing me, this is not taken into account by the government. He was very rich, so hey, I was considered by the government as somebody who deserves less help than my friends who were helped because parents with low income.
These big state-wide policies are all well and good, but in the end, it's just bureaucracy.
probably because they have far better infrastructures and far cheaper rented houses than any other ones have or just they are so rich. there are no such enriched and blessed shit to live anywhere in japan.
one always hates one to whom one gives free money.
on one side, outsource unskilled work. On the other side, give charity and call it "welfare".
then whine about "muh terrorists"
>These big state-wide policies are all well and good, but in the end, it's just bureaucracy
This is why people who are against free higher education and healthcare are generally dumb.
An enormous administrative bureaucracy and state run college system is fine, but god forbid we get da ebil big gubmint giving people equal access to affordable education.
I think that the fact that most finnish males enter military at the age of 18 or 19 can be seen from these statistics.
I remember when I left to the army I just left a note that I'm going to army and after that I've never slept more than two nights at my parents house. They moved my stuff to warehouse while I was in forest for 1,5 months fucking anthills as a subtle sign of "maybe you should move out".